Crazy Bimmer

uh oh... NSX gonna have to battle this? https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335517

Its gonna be a fun year!

TL CHROMETIDE

Oh Hell Yeah! It's going to get REALLY interesting.

TypeSAddict

I don't understand Honda. Why are they opposed to developing a V8 that could power a slew of different vehicles, and a RWD platform that could be used for a large Acura sedan as well as some lesser models, such as a performacnce coupe, but then they turn around and develop an exotic V10 w/ full new exotic platform for an EXTREMELY low-volume car

Motohip

titan

We may never know...

jwong77

Perhaps this V-10 will have the efficiency of a V-8 and thus will compete with them directly. But like titan said, "We may never know"

phile

I'm no engineer, so maybe this is a stupid question, but once they develop the V10, couldn't they just easily chop off 2 cylinders and voila, a V8?

mrdeeno

There's no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people. J/K


theoretically speaking, yeah, but that's the same as saying that they have a v6, so why couldn't they just add 2 cylinders?

it's a more complicated than that...but in reality it's not too far fetched (new M3 v8 is basically the m5 v10 minus 2...but then again it's more complicated than that).

I think the reason they WON'T build a v8 though, is because they swore up and down for so many years that they don't need or want one. building one, even after having a v10, would be admitting they were wrong.

So a "loophole" would be to just go to a v10 and skip the v8. They can continue to tell people they were never ever ever wrong about needing a v8.

mrdeeno

they've done it before TWICE (s2000 and NSX), but hopefully they'll be able to use this new platform for something besides the new NSX (which is why there are rumors of a front engine/rear or awd NSX...which will HAVE to be based on a RWD platform even if it's AWD).

cob3683

Because they aren't very smart

gocubsgo55

that link to the NSX's competition is not working, what were you guys referring too?

SSMTL01

i think the v10 is being developed in conjuction with acura's racing program and the motor will be used in both cars.. so low volume shouldn't really matter

iNteGraz92

i would say the new m3 v8 is more like the older m5 engine just tweaked. the new m5 is 5.0L

mrdeeno

huh?

the current m5 engine is 5.0L V10, 1 liter for every 2 cylinders.

the rumored new M3 engine is a 4.0L V8, 1 liter for every 2 cylinders. Pretty much the CURRENT m5 engine minus 2 cylinders (1 liter of displacement).

the OLD M5 engine is a 4.9L V8. no relation to the new M3 engine.

dom

Acura's racing program?

phile

OK, another engineering question: which is easier to do? Adding two cylinders ( V8 to V10)or chopping off two cylinders (V10 to V8)? Cause I think Honda might be trying to be as efficient and frugal as possible.

heyitsme

UhHuh A v8 would apply to most of their current models, a v10 doesn't. Efficient? Not likely.

mrdeeno

Honestly, I think it's easier to remove than to add.

I say this because when adding anything, whether its 2 cylinders or SH-AWD or a hybrid system, they have to take available space into consideration.

phile

That's not what I meant. I mean, if they're going to work on the next NSX (which I assume they intended from the get go to be a V10), they could go from there, killing two birds with one stone. But if there is no difference between going from 10 cylinders to 8 or going from 8 cylinders to 10, then I have no idea what Honda's up to.

mrdeeno

unless they recently grew BIG BALLS and isntead of using a v8, they just use a v10 everywhere.

doubtful, but we can dream.

heyitsme

They could have killed a forest of birds if they actually had any insight.

phile

What is you talking about? I'm asking a question about their developing the V10 for the NSX, and taking it from there.

What's the point of developing a V8, they don't have a platform for it right now anyway.

heyitsme

I'd love to ask a Chevy/Cadillac engineer that same question that the Honda/Acura engineer said he didn't have any platforms for. The Chevy engineer would just answer, we'll shoe horn it in. The Honda engineer seems to reply, well develop a v10 for a car that sells in limited number and eventually that will turn into ideas for a future v8 engine for the rest of our vehicles in 2012.

mrdeeno

This is probably what's goign on inside Honda...

Exec to engine engineer: "Build a v8"
engine engineer: "We dont' have a platform for it."
Exec: "Ok, then don't build a v8".

Exec to platform engineer: "Build a platform for a v8"
Platform engineer: "We don't have a v8"
Exec: "Ok, then don't build a platform for it."

And it just goes around and around because no one has balls to put his feet down on an engine and/or platform.

MaximaPower

^ Lol

gocubsgo55

TSX Hokie

Good point about GM. For all their flaws, they don't seem to have any problems stuffing V8s into models that obviously weren't designed for them (the Impala comes to mind). Heck, BMW managed to design a platform that is just as well-suited to a 5L V10 as a 3L I6. Yet Honda's platforms can't handle anything but an I4 or V6.

Would it have killed them to mount the 3.5L in the RL longitudinally? Bam, a platform for everything from RWD coupes to AWD luxo-barges. Instead, they seem intent on riding that Accord platform for all its worth, then act surprised that no one will pay $50k for it. .

Motohip

I don't get how mounting the 3.5 in the RL longitudinaly could give them a platform for RWD and AWD.

And it is suprising that Lexus could stick a V8 into the IS300, but a V6 won't fit into TSX???

phile

I think it's because the IS sacrifices interior room for a larger hood space; the TSX's interior is more accomodating to passengers, especially in the rear, despite both cars being roughly the same size.

phile

That's exactly what I meant by "efficiency" and then you jumped into a whole nother debate about could've/should've/would've. I'll say it again, if it's more economical to develop the 10 cylinder first, then lop off two cylinders for a V8, then Honda might be going about this in a more efficient manner, rather than go from V8 to V10. That's why I asked which method would've been more efficient. But you seemed poised to jump into the criticizing mode about Honda's way of business instead of just reading what I actually said.

TSX Hokie

Open the hood of a RWD car sometime and you'll see. In general, FR cars have longitudinally-mounted engines, and FF cars have transversely mounted engines. There are AWD cars with both engine configurations, but most AWD cars with transverse engines are basically FWD.

mrdeeno

i don't think it matters to Acura how the engine is mounted...they'll STILL stick with FWD.

i think the last gen RL had a longitudinally mounted engine and it was STILL FWD...so sticking a longitudinal engine in the car isn't going to force acura's hand towards RWD.

hell, i think if you GIVE acura a RWD platform, they'll find a way to add all kinds of "technological breakthroughs in automotive engineering" to turn it back into a FWD car. I wouldn't put it past them to stick an AWD system into a RWD platform and tune it so that 90% of the torque goes to the front wheels!

allmotor_2000

The new M5 engine has a very extensive break-in period. My buddy at work owns one and he's just finished the 'special' 1200-mile service and then has to go upto 3K miles before driving harshly.

Motohip

TSX Hokie: You have to start with a RWD platform, you can't turn it into one just by rotating the engine.

It's funny cause it's true!!! Well, I give Honda credit for not following the others and instead using technology and great engineering. Although, I wonder if they were less stubborn, would they be where Toyota/Lexus is today? The 04 RL was originaly said to be a performance luxury hybrid with AWD...what happened???

CLsuperhero

This is the thread that never ends yes it goes on and on my friends. People started building a car not knowing what was and it will be that forever until production comes because this is thread never ends

mrdeeno

If the crowd is going the wrong way, and Honda doesn't follow, then more power to them.

If the crowd is going the right way and Honda follows, then more power to them.

But if the crowd is going the right way, and Honda doesn't follow because they're too stubborn, then they deserve all the hell they get. And this is the predicament the RL is in, because rather than designing and selling a midsize luxury car the "successful" way that the other companies do...Honda had to design and sell the RL its "own" way.

Ken1997TL

Yes it did.. so did the 2nd generation Legend, Vigor and 1st generation TL.

gavriil

We venture into the future to speculate on Acura's V10 supercar - - By Ed Hellwig - - Source: Edmunds.com

It only had 270 horsepower and the interior of a Prelude, yet the 1991 Acura NSX was still an exotic. To keep weight down, aluminum was used for the body, chassis and suspension. Instead of more traditional V8 or V12 power, the NSX used a mid-mounted 3.0-liter V6. What it lacked in displacement, it made up for with variable valve timing and titanium connecting rods, the first ever in a production car.

Then there was the $65,000 price tag, cheap for its class but expensive for an Acura. The brand was only five years old at the time and its only other model was the $30K Legend sedan. No one expected a car like the NSX from a brand like Acura, and that was the whole point.

It was obvious the company exhausted its resources on the car, as little changed over its 15-year life span. The engine got a little more power, a Targa model was added, and a facelift gave it a new look in 2003. By then, Acura had become a full-fledged luxury brand so enthusiasts fully expected a new NSX. In 2005, production of the NSX officially ended with no word from Acura on a replacement.

Earlier this year, Acura finally fessed up and admitted it's working on an all-new NSX. Other than confirming it will have V10 power, Acura announced few additional details. So we decided to do a little digging, consulting our contacts in Japan and a well-connected designer in Europe. With their help, we were able to put together this exclusive video slide show on the next-generation NSX. It may not be exact, but until the car debuts in a couple of years it's as close as you're going to get.

View the animation video of the 2009 Acura NSX replacement.

phile

I totally don't believe the nsx will look anything even remotely like that Aston Martin inspired design with the Euro Civic face. Only thing believable from that video is that interior sketch, which I don't think I've seen anywhere on the internet before.

JadeFox

Fighettaboudit!!! Id take a 300hp RL with SH-awd ....IF.... it had 2 doors.......GIVE ME A PERFORMANCE COUPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cant Lie the CL-S is phenominal tho...