thoiboi

Don't know if this qualifies as "news" per se.. but it's a video comparing the new NSX with the old NSX R..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcD1To6vsAo

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Here's a quick comparo to 2017 R8 when it comes to inventory:

Cars.com: 193
Autotrader: 196
eBay: 5

I'm not sure if the PMC works 7 days or 5 days a week, but if they make 6-8 NSX, the production should be 120-240 cars per month. As last year was about getting PMC up to speed, providing samples to dealers, etc, we should have a better picture of how the NSX does in terms of sale in 2017.

Given the car is made in America, I think supply in the US should be higher relatively, compared to other European super cars?

In any case, do supercars in this class has too much of a wait list other than may be the McLaren 570S. This is of course excluding the special editions such as the GT3, the GT3 RS, the R, Nismo, etc.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Lol not good for the NSX.
all automotive journals are reporting NSX' sitting on dealer lots.
Yes, it sold 268 for the year, but there are at least 200 sitting on lots

Fibonacci

Which begs the question, how many of these were orders that were cancelled by prospective speculators who intended to flip?

Originally I was reading that the PMF build rate was going to be about 600 units annually and were only going to build to spec.

Even if you don't care for the NSX, as an enthusiast you should be rooting for its success because more choices is better than less choices.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I'm all for Honda Acura!! In fact, it would help consumer's by supply and demand. I'm sure if someone played ball, one could get one waaaay under for what they are going for.

Alas, I don't have $150k for a toy.

TacoBello

That doesn't make sense that there are 200 sitting on lots. I thought the only way you order one is if you sign the contract to buy. I'd be surprised if you can cancel your order once the contract is signed. What's the point of the contract then? And I'm sure people lose their entire deposit. Seems like a lose- lose scenario.

I've seen 3 new NSXs now, and yes, all three were in dealerships. But all three were sold and just being stored/displayed for the winter.

Fibonacci

It's not a contract, its a purchase agreement with a refundable deposit. You can easily cancel it and get your money back, which I can only presume happened to a lot of early (speculative) orders when they saw the market wasn't as firm as LaFerrari or 911R.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I'm just saying it doesn't bode well for Acura... And the writing is on the wall.

Fibonacci

Given the extended birthing pains and the lack of marketing, I think it's a bit early to call the outcome of this Gen2. Let's see how they follow through on development of additional variants and if brand management has the spine to stick with continuous improvements or let it whither on the vine.

As an anecdotal sample size of one, I'm still stoked to take delivery later this Spring.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Agreed, I only chimed in because I kept seeing every one report the inventory issue.

If I had $150k, I could be in one. I think. I like the design and would be an awesome car to daily

TacoBello

You mean people don't want to buy a super car from a brand that has zero sport offerings, zero race trims, and nothing besides SUVs and Sedans? Who would've thought?

it might be biting Acura in the ass... They have no one to blame but themselves. Production delays, 2 failed concepts, an overpriced production model (even if not overpriced, it's out of the reach for many, and for those who can afford it, they have other options), expectations to order without even seeing the car (Acura doesn't have that kind of brand cache), etc. It doesn't help that Acura offers nothing sport or race inspired. They just put out the most expensive option and that's it. There's nothing for people to work up from, to aspire to, etc. It's that or nothing. I can't see many people going from a TLX to an NSX. I mean, maybe a couple, but very very few.

kurtatx

And what's annoying is, at least for the TLX, it shouldn't be that hard to create a sporty version. Take the v6 version, give it standard SH-AWD, down the efficiency and break the 300 HP mark and you're already better off than any recent "A-Spec" or "GT" offering Acura has made. Then add the GT trim or what the hell ever they want to call it.

TacoBello

Well... It's sounds like it's coming out for the MMC. We shall see though.

Color me sceptical that it will be good

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Haha yea possible that people try to flip. I don't know why people do that because I don't think many junior super cars can fetch for more money, unless it's a GT3, GT3 RS, etc? Like, do people flip 911 Turbo?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

you can flip anything....supply and demand.
there's just no demand for the NSX

thus why it's a great time to be a buyer, you could potentially grab an NSX for under $150k.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol yes you can flip anything, but my point is that, in the junior super car class, I'm not sure if you need to pay a markup for any regular versions? I totally understand and expect to pay a markup for something like GT4, GT3, GT3 RS, Superleggera, Speciale, etc.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

thus why NSX or I should say, Acura is in trouble!!!!!!

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Costco

As long as the manufacturer doesn't outright forbid "market adjustments", it can be marked up. Just depends on the dealer.

I've seen market adjustments on the usual suspects, Z06, Shelby Mustangs, Focus RS, TRD Pro-anything, and even the new WRX and Prius Prime both with a $3,000 markup.

A couple of months ago there was a Tacoma TRD Pro around here with a $4,000 markup, sold within 3 days. Dealership hasn't gotten another one, as far as I've seen.

is300eater

I've seen this car ONCE... and I'm in DT Vancouver where there's always exotic cars

TacoBello

I was watching the news just the other day... they said that Vancouver is the supercar capital of North America. They have more super cars on the roads there, than anywhere else.

is300eater

I can believe it... when I moved here in 2010, I was always amazed what I saw, taking pictures left and right... posting in the "Hot cars sighted" thread (here at AZ) I don't even bother anymore

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yup...there's a 2-year wait for the NSX here in Vancouver based on what I was told by the dealership......

fsttyms1

Acura better do something with some more inspiring models quick. If they play the game like they have with the RLX with the NSX is game over for it.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

EL19

iTrader: (4)

DJ Iceman

I think you've hit the nail on the head. By many measures, I am the perfect target customer for the new NSX. I dreamt of owning a first gen back when they were new, but I was just out of college and the price tag was well beyond what I could afford. I barely got myself into an Integra GS-R, then a few years later a 3.0CL. My wife and I were looking forward to climbing the CL-to-TL-to-RL path of ever-increasing success in our lives. Around then is when Acura kind of lost their focus, but we've stuck with the brand and have always had at least one Acura in our garage ever since that '97 Integra. When we had a child we moved up to a first-gen RDX, then when we had a second child we moved up to an MDX. We tried BMW and Lexus but fell in love with the ZDX and I still think it's the finest vehicle I've ever owned.

I followed the saga of the new NSX with interest. I'm now at a point in my life where dropping serious coin on a "fun" car is a real possibility. And if the new NSX, optioned the way I want it, was $120K instead of $180K I'd own one right now. The car itself doesn't stir my passions like the first-gen NSX did, but there's obviously a lot to like about it, just not at its price point. And I'm not talking a dumbed-down or slowed-down version--the NSX, as it exists in the market now, is worth $120K to me, not $180K. And I have to think there are a lot more people able and willing to dish out that kind of money, which would have taken the world by storm (instead of coming out as essentially equivalent to the other offerings at close to $200K--it could have been a game-changer like the first-gen if they could have kept the price down).

Instead, Acura has a curiosity on their hands. A fine car, no doubt, and it probably is having some halo effect on the brand as a whole, but not nearly as much as they had hoped. The years of delays, clumsy dealership roll-out, poor communication with confirmed customers, and price-gouging by dealerships with their early allocations all hurt (and are all self-inflicted, unforced errors).

Fibonacci

So riddle me this iceman, why is the car arbitrarily only worth $120k as opposed to 180k? Not picking a fight, want to hear your logical reasons why it's worth 60k less than your "ideal" price.

And more importantly, what would you buy right now for your 120k instead?

TacoBello

I don't agree with the 120k price point, it'd be nice, but I don't see it being feasible with the amount of tech put into the NSX.

Then again... The hybrid system is a direct plug and play from the RLX, as I've been told (just the layout has been reversed). If that is the case, it's like $5500 to go from the FWD to the Sport Hybrid RLX. So what's the remaining 150k for, for the entry level NSX? Let's say it's a $50,000 engine in there (doubtful, but bear with me for argument's sake). The rest of the car is what, maybe 65k? Seems to come out to 120k, any way.

The 180k quoted price isn't accurate. At that point, you're adding a bunch of useless and unnecessary Carbon fiber pieces. So it may seem the base NSX, at 155k, is 30-35k over priced. Plus, the RLX is a low volume car too. Maybe not as low as the NSX, but still pretty damn low. I dunno. Just my

Costco

Economies of scale, recoup development costs...

Safe to assume the NSX has a platform not shared with other models?

nist7

Heh. Agreed. Just because you want a car to be priced at 120k doesn't mean it's actually worth 120k.

There's NTOHING you can buy new right now for anywhere near 120k that has: 570+hp, MR layout, AWD, and with comparable performance. The only other competition that's similar are the 911 Turbo and the R8. So it's a moot point. Seems like he's not the target audience yet (until he is able to afford it).

But then again the NSX starts at 156k, exact same neighborhood where the R8 and the 991 Turbo starts. And it's distinguishing feature is the sport hybrid SH-AWD and the looks and the brand history.

One may feel it should be cheaper because it is a "Honda" (meh, not very good reason) and the interior/performance lacking (reasonable). But one should at least sit, touch, and test-drive one before making a large judgement.

If one were to be rich enough to afford a 120k car.....and our own neuronbob was able to get some numbers on a MSRP car (at 156k), then I don't see high difficulty with getting a base MSRP car lined up. May be lots of wait though.....dealer gouging has always been there since beginning of time when limited/high-end releases occur (see the GT350R fiasco or the Focus RS) and are not going to be that much influenced by the OEM.

But in the end it's up to the buyer to see how much their own money is worth and if you don't think the car is truly worth the money then of course no need to get it. I'd at least test drive one, if possible, if one is wealthy enough to consider a 100k+ car purchase in the first place....

TacoBello

but they need to recoup costs of the RLX also... Which isn't really happening, judging by sales numbers.

I will agree with the NSX platform not being shared with anything else, buuuuuuut.... With regards to the economies of scale, the exact same would happen if they dropped the price, while making and selling more cars. They chose to be more exclusive and by doing so, more expensive.

Will it work them? Do they have the brand cache? Time will tell. I honestly don't know right now. I'm not sold on how people are saying their are countless numbers of NSXs sitting on dealers lots... While that might be true, I feel like there might be more to the story than is visible just on the surface. I don't believe (yet) that they are struggling to move these. Once again, I guess time will tell.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea gotta agree with most posters here....at $120k starting, the NSX would've been a steal. I think that kind of price range is more for special edition/maxed out versions of high end sports cars such as Z06 and Nismo GTR as opposed to junior super cars.

The closest rivals of the NSX would be the R8 and 911 Turbo as they are all MR and AWD with 500 something hp (Huracan would be close too but it's way more $). The R8 V10 starts at $163k and the 911 Turbo starts at $159k. From the lap times I've seen though, you really need the R8 V10 plus and 911 Turbo S to keep up with the NSX. Those are $190k and $188k respectively.

In terms of pricing, I don't think comparing to the 1st gen is fair. The 1st gen came out at a time when the Japanese Yen was very favorable to cars made in Japan. If you look at the NSX price history, you'd see that it went up from $60k to like $80k in just a few years as the Japanese economy collapsed. On top of that, the NSX was a statement by Honda to show the world what they were capable of at the time. It wasn't about making the NSX profitable. It was about changing the mindset people - that Honda isn't just about making vanilla cars like the Civic and Accord. As a result, even if Honda was losing money on each NSX sold, it wasn't much of an issue.

This time around - 25 years later, most enthusiasts already know what Honda has done - Si, Type Rs, DC2, EK9, DC5, FK2, FD2, AP1/2, CL7, etc. There's no need to tell the world that Honda can make sporty cars. Rather, the target is to remind people that Honda can still make competitive sporty cars. Also, there's no need to price the car way under the competition. The NSX brand is more well established than 25-30 years ago. It's supposed to be unique enough to sell on its merits. It's a legitimate Tier-1 level car. And with about 5 variants available in the near future, I think Honda wants to be able to make a profit out of the NSX line up.

srika

oh damn.... Best Motoring!!!!!

https://acurazine.com/forums/car-tal.../#post15956990

Fibonacci

Srika speaks Japanese? Nice!

csmeance

The largest issue is that Acura for more than a decade has marketed itself as a value oriented luxury brand. People know they aren't getting the same stuff as an X5 or GL with an MDX. The same goes with the NSX. The RL and RLX were flops because acura could not get away from being so value oriented and tried charging a premium. We all know what Honda/Acura is capable of, but if you are trying to sell us a 200K car and buyers want to pay 120K it leads to the same issue with the RL/RLX. I almost got into a RL but the dealer wouldn't budge off 50K+ MSRP on the advance model I wanted and it sat in the dealer showroom for 9 months before being sold to another dealer for 48K. For a model that sold barely 100/month, that's not the way to handle loyal customers.

TacoBello

Lol... The Nismo GTR goes for a few more dollars than 120k. It's almost as much as the base NSX. Think what you want about it, that car is damn fast. There was one for sale at a Nissan dealership here. It was going for 200k CAN. A base NSX goes for 205k CAN.

TacoBello

Also, iforyou, the original NSX was intended to make profit. But their plan fell through. It sold like hot cakes for the first 2 or so years, but sales plummeted drastically after that. There's a reason they made the car for 14 years- they were trying to squeeze every dime they could out of it. That, and there was no follow up NSX after that, simply because they didn't see it as being a money maker and so they didn't want to invest the necessary money to build it.

Yes, there were concepts, but that's all they were. Sounded like in 2009ish they were getting serious with the HSV, but they killed it too, claiming it was the economy, yet everyone else kept building super cars. Something didn't add up.

I also highly disagree with your assessment, saying that the NSX is more well established than 25-30 years ago. There are Very few original owners, and most everyone who owns a 1G NSX is at least a 2nd, or 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and even 7th owner of the car, paying used market money for them. They only started to get ridiculous in price about 4 years ago. Prior to that, not so much. I remember there was a time you could buy a used NA2 for 65k CAN. The people who bought these used aren't necessarily able to buy a new one, at more than 3 times the price. also, the lack of the car for almost a decade hasn't exactly helped cement it in anything.

Im sure plenty of people would love to have a new NSX. But it's not exactly accessible to many of them.

Fibonacci

But isn't returning to "Precision Crafted Performance" as a mission statement and tagline what Acura's is trying to correct?

And I'll ask the question again, why is the NSX arbitrarily worth $120k and not more?

biker

Even at 400K, Lexus lost money on the LFA. I kinda doubt Honda is looking to make money on a 160K NSX. Like the first gen NSX, it will be many years later that Honda will admit it was a money losing proposition.