Acura: NSX News
#4001
Race Director
While BMW is not touting too much the efficiency of their engines, getting real life 30+ MPG by customers (320) must help with word of mouth and sales.
Last edited by biker; 12-11-2013 at 02:13 AM.
#4002
That's because BMW has other things to boast about. the efficiency of their engine is simply an added bonus.
#4003
I feel the need...
I love the poopdick mcfartington as much as the next guy, but let's be honest. Few of us pounding this forum have five prancing horses already in the garage and are on the waiting list for another $1.4 million dollar one.
I'm not writing anything off so don't put words in my mouth. I'm merely a skeptic. I was there at the NAIAS on media day when the the curtain dropped on the new concept. I heard the the rousing applause from fellow enthusiasts who genuinely hooted and hollered. I am intrigued to see what this car ACTUALLY materializes like and am fully prepared to step up and buy one if it is compelling.
BUT, its time for Honda to or get off the pot.
Exceptional cars indeed. And also exceptionally more powerful than the NSX.
I'm fully capable of embracing new technology. I'm not "stuck" on IMA. But now that the sport hybrid stats are out, it begs the question: is an extra 67 hp worth an 357 lb weight penalty?
Let's drive one and we'll see... Let's drive one and we'll see... Let's drive one and we'll see... Hey is there a 10 year echo in this thread?
Not saying the NSX is even meant to compete with them, but this tired argument of writing off the NSX because it uses electric motors needs to stop.
BUT, its time for Honda to or get off the pot.
All three are considered exceptional cars, and guess what, all three use some form of a hybrid EXACTLY in line with what the NSX will have.
Love hybrids or hate them, they're here to stay, and I applaud the various companies for trying to actually make them fun. Everyone seems to be so stuck on IMA and how it didn't even come close to living up to expectations. I agree, and apparently so does Honda since it's now dead and the new hybrid systems that they are replacing it with all seem to be pretty well received. Hell, even this forum's favorite punching bag in the RLX is getting good reviews with the new 3 motor hybrid system that is being adapted to be used in the NSX.
Let's drive one and we'll see... Let's drive one and we'll see... Let's drive one and we'll see... Hey is there a 10 year echo in this thread?
#4004
I feel the need...
#4005
I'm not writing anything off so don't put words in my mouth. I'm merely a skeptic. I was there at the NAIAS on media day when the the curtain dropped on the new concept. I heard the the rousing applause from fellow enthusiasts who genuinely hooted and hollered. I am intrigued to see what this car ACTUALLY materializes like and am fully prepared to step up and buy one if it is compelling.
Again, you're hardly the only one here, but why is it that people feel compelled to lump the HSV-10 development time in with the current NSX's development time?
Everyone who mentions Honda hybrids being a failure is "stuck" on IMA because it's all they know and all they're basing their opinions on. My point was Honda seemingly learned from the mistake of the IMA vehicles and has put out some truly great tech in the new hybrid systems they are using. Like someone else mentioned the Accord hybrid is getting great reviews, the 3 motor system is in the RLX is well received as well. Sounds to me like they found their stride with hybrids. So while you talk about Honda hybrids being failures, current evidence seems to indicate otherwise.
#4006
I drive a Subata.
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It's kinda early in the stage to real argue about this because we all know the all new NSX will be released probably around 2020.
#4007
I feel the need...
Again, you're hardly the only one here, but why is it that people feel compelled to lump the HSV-10 development time in with the current NSX's development time?
You conveniently left out my other example of the GT-R which is rumored to be a Twin Turbo AWD V-6 hybrid. Sound familiar? Besides if the NSX ends up in the 450-500 HP range like most people expect, does it matter that it has 200 less HP than those cars if it's around 1/10 of the price?
While there are no instrumented tests for the car yet, most publications who went for the drive event came away very impressed with the system. It may only be an extra 67 HP, but from the impressions is sounds like the impact is much larger. In the end though, the system was never about horsepower numbers, it was about taking SH-AWD to the next level and it sounds like they did exactly that.
Everyone who mentions Honda hybrids being a failure is "stuck" on IMA because it's all they know and all they're basing their opinions on. My point was Honda seemingly learned from the mistake of the IMA vehicles and has put out some truly great tech in the new hybrid systems they are using. Like someone else mentioned the Accord hybrid is getting great reviews, the 3 motor system is in the RLX is well received as well. Sounds to me like they found their stride with hybrids. So while you talk about Honda hybrids being failures, current evidence seems to indicate otherwise.
#4008
I'm not comparing development time between the two platforms, just asking a rhetorical question. If you had an awesome engine that was 7/10ths (pure speculation) of the way to being fully developed, why not take it off the shelf and finish it instead of starting from scratch?
Its no stretch of the imagination to proclaim that thus far, Honda has failed in the hybrid game if you go purely by sales numbers. That is not a bold statement of opinion, that is fact. The new Accord hybrid may indeed be a leap forward for Honda, but it is too early to determine it to be a sales success.
#4009
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^^^^^
Being "green" and having class-leading fuel economy won't give Acura an easier ride into the Tier-1 arena.
Class-leading fuel economy only works beautifully for the cheap, economy auto brands, but never for the expensive, luxury auto brands.
However, building great vehicles and powerful engines (across the entire Acura lines) will.
Being "green" and having class-leading fuel economy won't give Acura an easier ride into the Tier-1 arena.
Class-leading fuel economy only works beautifully for the cheap, economy auto brands, but never for the expensive, luxury auto brands.
However, building great vehicles and powerful engines (across the entire Acura lines) will.
Like I said, whether the change of direction (from V10 to V6 TT hybrid) is a good move or not, that's totally up for debate. Everyone has his own opinion on this. Your stance is that efficiency is not important for expensive, luxury brands.
I see it a bit differently. Let's keep it at that as we have discussed this many times already.
You didn't answer the question. Do you feel that an extra 67 HP is worth the 357 lb (give or take) weight penalty which the NSX may incur? When it comes to HALO cars, it IS about the numbers.
Its no stretch of the imagination to proclaim that thus far, Honda has failed in the hybrid game if you go purely by sales numbers. That is not a bold statement of opinion, that is fact. The new Accord hybrid may indeed be a leap forward for Honda, but it is too early to determine it to be a sales success.
Its no stretch of the imagination to proclaim that thus far, Honda has failed in the hybrid game if you go purely by sales numbers. That is not a bold statement of opinion, that is fact. The new Accord hybrid may indeed be a leap forward for Honda, but it is too early to determine it to be a sales success.
How do we define sales success? To beat Toyota's hybrid sales numbers? When? This year? Next year? The issue here is that, Toyota has a huge advantage over Honda because Toyota captured the market properly, while Honda did not. I don't think it's realistic to expect Accord hybrid to do as well as the Camry hybrid in sales in the next couple years. I doubt Honda can change the perception of people (i.e. Buy hybrids? Buy Toyotas) that quickly.
#4010
Senior Moderator
When you go shopping for a Porsche, Ferrari, Corvette etc... Are you honestly considering the EPA ratings? I know im not. I couldnt give 2 shits if one car has a few mpg more city than the other. Most are buying on preference of brand, power/stats etc.. The way i typically drive there is no way the NSX could achieve anywhere near city EPA ratings and in all likely hood be the same or worse than the others due to having to work that much harder. I dont buy cars on the EPA rating, i buy what suits my wants/needs.
#4011
Moderator
When you go shopping for a Porsche, Ferrari, Corvette etc... Are you honestly considering the EPA ratings? I know im not. I couldnt give 2 shits if one car has a few mpg more city than the other. Most are buying on preference of brand, power/stats etc.. The way i typically drive there is no way the NSX could achieve anywhere near city EPA ratings and in all likely hood be the same or worse than the others due to having to work that much harder. I dont buy cars on the EPA rating, i buy what suits my wants/needs.
#4012
I drive a Subata.
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Ban MPG talk from NSX topic.
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#4013
^edit:
With the once suggested V6 + hybrid powertrain, I could see the NSX getting good gas mileage.
But with a TT V6, even with IMA to help out, I doubt it'll have noteworthy fuel economy. Maybe relatively speaking.
With the once suggested V6 + hybrid powertrain, I could see the NSX getting good gas mileage.
But with a TT V6, even with IMA to help out, I doubt it'll have noteworthy fuel economy. Maybe relatively speaking.
#4014
Senior Moderator
This really strikes at the heart of Honda's handling of Acura, doesn't it? Is Acura just another way for Honda to upsell its existing customers (who do care about such things) or is it an actual effort to penetrate the luxury market? With the way things have been run at Acura for the past decade, I have to think it's the former, not the latter.
#4015
Team Owner
#4016
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When you go shopping for a Porsche, Ferrari, Corvette etc... Are you honestly considering the EPA ratings? I know im not. I couldnt give 2 shits if one car has a few mpg more city than the other. Most are buying on preference of brand, power/stats etc.. The way i typically drive there is no way the NSX could achieve anywhere near city EPA ratings and in all likely hood be the same or worse than the others due to having to work that much harder. I dont buy cars on the EPA rating, i buy what suits my wants/needs.
This really strikes at the heart of Honda's handling of Acura, doesn't it? Is Acura just another way for Honda to upsell its existing customers (who do care about such things) or is it an actual effort to penetrate the luxury market? With the way things have been run at Acura for the past decade, I have to think it's the former, not the latter.
The thing is, most people who buy these super cars don't care how much money they get to save by using less fuel. Like wise, most of these people also don't take their cars to the track. Note the keyword here is "most." I'm not saying EVERYONE is the same. With the above said, most people who buy these cars are mostly into bragging rights - hey I drive a Vette/Porsche/Ferrari/etc.
In the case of the NSX, the owner can go, "hey my car has 500+hp and can handle so darn well, but guess what, it also gets 30mpg in the city easily like your little Yaris." You might not care about that. Chances are, there are probably many folks out there that also don't care about that. But for those that do, they now have an option, unless they have the money to buy a P1, 918, or laferrari (and also enjoy the better performance, of course).
Like fsttyms said, it depends on how you drive. If you drive like him, then chances are, you will be getting bad mpg in ANY car regardless.
#4017
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
"Hey my car has 500+hp and can handle so darn well, but guess what, it also gets 30mpg in the city easily like your little Yaris."
Yeah, maybe some folks like Justin Bieber would say that and think it's cool.
Yeah, maybe some folks like Justin Bieber would say that and think it's cool.
#4018
Moderator
I'm not sure why this is so hard to grasp. I already said that, whether mpg is important or not, that's totally another matter. Honda chose its direction. Whether you agree with it or not, they are still going that direction. There were many discussions regarding this already.
The thing is, most people who buy these super cars don't care how much money they get to save by using less fuel. Like wise, most of these people also don't take their cars to the track. Note the keyword here is "most." I'm not saying EVERYONE is the same. With the above said, most people who buy these cars are mostly into bragging rights - hey I drive a Vette/Porsche/Ferrari/etc.
In the case of the NSX, the owner can go, "hey my car has 500+hp and can handle so darn well, but guess what, it also gets 30mpg in the city easily like your little Yaris." You might not care about that. Chances are, there are probably many folks out there that also don't care about that. But for those that do, they now have an option, unless they have the money to buy a P1, 918, or laferrari (and also enjoy the better performance, of course).
The thing is, most people who buy these super cars don't care how much money they get to save by using less fuel. Like wise, most of these people also don't take their cars to the track. Note the keyword here is "most." I'm not saying EVERYONE is the same. With the above said, most people who buy these cars are mostly into bragging rights - hey I drive a Vette/Porsche/Ferrari/etc.
In the case of the NSX, the owner can go, "hey my car has 500+hp and can handle so darn well, but guess what, it also gets 30mpg in the city easily like your little Yaris." You might not care about that. Chances are, there are probably many folks out there that also don't care about that. But for those that do, they now have an option, unless they have the money to buy a P1, 918, or laferrari (and also enjoy the better performance, of course).
#4019
6G TLX-S
#4020
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Comments such as, "sports cars drivers don't care about mpg" is true. No doubt.
May be I should try again, and see if I'm able to make you guys understand what Honda is doing here (with my own interpretation.
As we all know, during the recession, Honda got a new CEO many drastic changes to its operation and direction were made. I think we all know that the new direction is more about developing green cars. RWD, V8, tier-1, V10, etc? Those are gone, history. Those simply don't fit the new direction of the company. Is this new direction the right direction? I don't know. It does not matter since I can't do anything about it anyway.
Fast forward several years, and we are now seeing technologies that fit the new company direction: New Earth Dream engines, new CVT, new VTEC Turbo, three new hybrid systems, new DCT, new SH-AWD system, etc. Some of these new technologies have already been applied in new products like the Accord, Civic, RLX, etc. The real world results seem to be quite positive.
How can Honda make a super car that also follows the new company direction? By using a gas-guzzling V10 engine that? Probably not. People here have been saying how engine down-sizing is the best innovation in the world. Well, why not then? The result is a ~3.5L V6 Twin-turbo. If that's not efficient and powerful enough, then add a few motors to it. 500+hp? No problem.
That's not quite enough though. Sure, it's efficient. Sure, 500+hp should make a car quite fast unless it's super heavy. But we must remember what NSX stands for. For those who don't remember, NSX stands for New Sportscar experimental. The first gen NSX suits that name since before the first NSX came out, Honda was not known for making great exotics. Honda was extremely successful in F1 and selling Accord and Civic. But that's nothing to bridge the gap between the F1 success and the bread and butter sedans. NSX came along and fixed this issue. There were many new technologies and innovations with the NSX and I'm sure most of us enthusiasts here are already familiar with them. So I won't repeat.
As such, the new NSX must also be worthy of the NSX nameplate. Simply making a NSX that is similar to the 1st gen model IMO is a no go. What's so innovative about that? What's so "experimental" about that? The first NSX showed the world that, super cars do not have to be unreliable. It showed that super cars do not have to be hard to drive. Prior to that, people probably didn't even think about those things. The new NSX with its innovative sport hybrid sh-awd system has the potential to change our perception. Of course, there will always be people who are too stiff to accept this. That happened with the first gen NSX too. That's perfectly fine. After all, Honda is no Ferrari, and it cannot satisfy everyone. But to me, I think the new NSX is a good representation of where Honda is heading. It fits the image Honda is trying to establish. It showcases what Honda is capable of. It also allows people to see that, super cars CAN also be efficient. The technologies developed for the NSX can also be used on other less expensive models (i.e. I wouldn't mind if the next TLX uses a similar but much less expensive powertrain setup). People in recent years complain that Honda has been slow with its technologies and engineering. Well, I think the new NSX shows exactly what Honda is still capable of doing.
Will the NSX be the best super car? Probably not. Will it be the fastest? I guess not. Will it have the best bang for the buck? Don't think so. Can you answer yes to the above questions with the original NSX? Hell no.
Some may say, "well that's nice but it's still a vapor car". If that's the case, well, why don't we all just wait and see rather than be all doom and gloom.
May be I should try again, and see if I'm able to make you guys understand what Honda is doing here (with my own interpretation.
As we all know, during the recession, Honda got a new CEO many drastic changes to its operation and direction were made. I think we all know that the new direction is more about developing green cars. RWD, V8, tier-1, V10, etc? Those are gone, history. Those simply don't fit the new direction of the company. Is this new direction the right direction? I don't know. It does not matter since I can't do anything about it anyway.
Fast forward several years, and we are now seeing technologies that fit the new company direction: New Earth Dream engines, new CVT, new VTEC Turbo, three new hybrid systems, new DCT, new SH-AWD system, etc. Some of these new technologies have already been applied in new products like the Accord, Civic, RLX, etc. The real world results seem to be quite positive.
How can Honda make a super car that also follows the new company direction? By using a gas-guzzling V10 engine that? Probably not. People here have been saying how engine down-sizing is the best innovation in the world. Well, why not then? The result is a ~3.5L V6 Twin-turbo. If that's not efficient and powerful enough, then add a few motors to it. 500+hp? No problem.
That's not quite enough though. Sure, it's efficient. Sure, 500+hp should make a car quite fast unless it's super heavy. But we must remember what NSX stands for. For those who don't remember, NSX stands for New Sportscar experimental. The first gen NSX suits that name since before the first NSX came out, Honda was not known for making great exotics. Honda was extremely successful in F1 and selling Accord and Civic. But that's nothing to bridge the gap between the F1 success and the bread and butter sedans. NSX came along and fixed this issue. There were many new technologies and innovations with the NSX and I'm sure most of us enthusiasts here are already familiar with them. So I won't repeat.
As such, the new NSX must also be worthy of the NSX nameplate. Simply making a NSX that is similar to the 1st gen model IMO is a no go. What's so innovative about that? What's so "experimental" about that? The first NSX showed the world that, super cars do not have to be unreliable. It showed that super cars do not have to be hard to drive. Prior to that, people probably didn't even think about those things. The new NSX with its innovative sport hybrid sh-awd system has the potential to change our perception. Of course, there will always be people who are too stiff to accept this. That happened with the first gen NSX too. That's perfectly fine. After all, Honda is no Ferrari, and it cannot satisfy everyone. But to me, I think the new NSX is a good representation of where Honda is heading. It fits the image Honda is trying to establish. It showcases what Honda is capable of. It also allows people to see that, super cars CAN also be efficient. The technologies developed for the NSX can also be used on other less expensive models (i.e. I wouldn't mind if the next TLX uses a similar but much less expensive powertrain setup). People in recent years complain that Honda has been slow with its technologies and engineering. Well, I think the new NSX shows exactly what Honda is still capable of doing.
Will the NSX be the best super car? Probably not. Will it be the fastest? I guess not. Will it have the best bang for the buck? Don't think so. Can you answer yes to the above questions with the original NSX? Hell no.
Some may say, "well that's nice but it's still a vapor car". If that's the case, well, why don't we all just wait and see rather than be all doom and gloom.
#4021
אני עומד עם ישראל
It's partly because we've been waiting and seeing now for nearly a decade with the same ol song being sung from Honda between this administration and the previous.
#4022
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That's totally understandable. It's fair for us to be skeptical as to whether Honda will really come through and bring this car out. Going back though, I don't think Honda was as serious with the previous concepts. There was the HSC. Honda didn't do much with it. The CEO confirmed in 2005 that the HSC was merely a concept. Then there were photos and videos of the V10 FR car. I don't recall seeing much news on that car from Honda. I didn't hear anything on actual production date, production location. Honda never said anything regarding having a factory setup for building such car. The 2015 NSX on the other hand is quite different. Honda actually named the car the NSX concept. Honda followed a strict timeline, and has been promising a launch date of 2015 for a while. Honda first showed the exterior of NSX to the public in 2012. The interior was then shown a while later. This year, we have received news on its powertrain as well as production location etc. I can't assume anything, but so far it sounds quite promising.
But the above IMO doesn't matter much. If Honda ends up not making the NSX, then it's the end of the discussion. However, if the car is coming out, I feel that the car is interesting and I'm eager to see what it can do and how it drives in real life. A lot of people here are quite excited about the P1, LaFerrari, and 918. The NSX will not perform at the same level as those cars. After all, those cars are around 3000lb while making 900hp or so. The NSX is probably around 3500lb at 500-600hp. It will most likely be way slower. However, it seems to be not a bad cheaper alternative to those cars as the NSX will cost around 10-20% of those cars.
But the above IMO doesn't matter much. If Honda ends up not making the NSX, then it's the end of the discussion. However, if the car is coming out, I feel that the car is interesting and I'm eager to see what it can do and how it drives in real life. A lot of people here are quite excited about the P1, LaFerrari, and 918. The NSX will not perform at the same level as those cars. After all, those cars are around 3000lb while making 900hp or so. The NSX is probably around 3500lb at 500-600hp. It will most likely be way slower. However, it seems to be not a bad cheaper alternative to those cars as the NSX will cost around 10-20% of those cars.
Last edited by iforyou; 12-13-2013 at 07:13 PM.
#4023
אני עומד עם ישראל
I believe this car is coming out. Honda has lost a lot of fans over this decade.
Remember our generation grew up with Hondas and Toyotas in the garage not Ford and Chevys. They had a pretty loyal following as most of us in the 90s and early 00s bought their product, modified and ended up on these boards as we were able to afford Acuras not just and Integra or RSX.
Times change and a lot of us have just moved on lusting for other "dream cars."
Remember our generation grew up with Hondas and Toyotas in the garage not Ford and Chevys. They had a pretty loyal following as most of us in the 90s and early 00s bought their product, modified and ended up on these boards as we were able to afford Acuras not just and Integra or RSX.
Times change and a lot of us have just moved on lusting for other "dream cars."
#4024
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
Also for the absence of news on the much delayed TLX, a lot of 4G owners (AZ members) have moved on to other auto brands, especially Audi and Cadillac.
Also for the absence of news on the much delayed TLX, a lot of 4G owners (AZ members) have moved on to other auto brands, especially Audi and Cadillac.
#4025
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That's totally understandable. The days of affordable Honda sports cars are long gone. It's sad.
I think it's pretty obvious that the TLX will be HUGE to Acura. Hopefully the 1-year delay means the final product is a good one.
I think it's pretty obvious that the TLX will be HUGE to Acura. Hopefully the 1-year delay means the final product is a good one.
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#4027
Yeah seriously don't hold your breath. I mean for their sake, I'm hoping the TLX is some decent package, but I wouldn't bet on it.
#4028
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
I'm sure Acura has been prepping TLX for quite awhile already. They should scrap whatever they have been prepping for the last couple of years and just re-do it.
Otherwise, it'll be just another typical head scratcher move.
Otherwise, it'll be just another typical head scratcher move.
#4030
Safety Car
Cameo
The Acura NSX Prototype makes a surprise cameo in Season 3, Episode 3, of Jerry Seinfeld's Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee. Watch the full episode: http://on.acura.com/1hvennX.
#4031
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
They forgot to add "Coming soon in 2020" at the end.
#4032
The sizzle in the Steak
Seinfeld (right at the end of the vid) : "I'm kinda impressed."
Kinda? I don't think that's what your peeps at Acura who cut your checks want you to say, and or feel about their vapor car.
Just say'n.
Kinda? I don't think that's what your peeps at Acura who cut your checks want you to say, and or feel about their vapor car.
Just say'n.
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Sly Raskal (02-25-2014)
#4034
The sizzle in the Steak
2 more years!?!??
Then again sales peeps know absolutely nothing.
Then again sales peeps know absolutely nothing.
#4035
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
#4036
Itz JDM y0!
Don't shoot the messenger... Just telling you guys what I was told last week. I think it will be out in two years. Waiting list wouldn't surprise me with the amount of NSX's/GTR's/458's in the area I live in.
#4037
Senior Moderator
Compared to the Z06 this thing .......
Shit or get off the pot Acura. If Chevy can turn around and design what they did in the amount of time they did it, you guys should have something available for purchase by now. I mean its only taken you what 2-3 canceled versions?
Shit or get off the pot Acura. If Chevy can turn around and design what they did in the amount of time they did it, you guys should have something available for purchase by now. I mean its only taken you what 2-3 canceled versions?
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Sly Raskal (02-25-2014)
#4038
אני עומד עם ישראל
So this won't be a 2015 release?
#4039
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
Sorry, not any more !
Any one surprised ?
Sorry, not any more !
Any one surprised ?
#4040
Senior Moderator