Acura: NSX News
12-18-2008, 02:49 PM
#2002
Senior Moderator
Let me paint a clear(er) picture for you.
No contradiction. Acura has been doing well with a coupe. The CL sales were all Acura needed to look at to understand that the coupe was not for them.
Now Honda is scrambling like the rest of the automakers around the world.
The dead weight will be cut. Acura has a good amount of dead weight in the line-up. The RL, RDX are prime examples.....and now with the "beak" design....the big seller TL and TSX are in danger. In this economic environment there is not much going for the Acura line-up...and combine that with a horrible design direction as of late....it's a one-two punch of devastation for Acura.
Acura cares ZERO about the "enthusiast" market. Acura has not had that market for years. Acura does not want the RSX or Teg crowd. Those peeps can go buy civics for all Honda cares.
Acura has and is slowly loosing the "faithful".
No contradiction. Acura has been doing well with a coupe. The CL sales were all Acura needed to look at to understand that the coupe was not for them.
Now Honda is scrambling like the rest of the automakers around the world.
The dead weight will be cut. Acura has a good amount of dead weight in the line-up. The RL, RDX are prime examples.....and now with the "beak" design....the big seller TL and TSX are in danger. In this economic environment there is not much going for the Acura line-up...and combine that with a horrible design direction as of late....it's a one-two punch of devastation for Acura.
Acura cares ZERO about the "enthusiast" market. Acura has not had that market for years. Acura does not want the RSX or Teg crowd. Those peeps can go buy civics for all Honda cares.
Acura has and is slowly loosing the "faithful".
The CL sales were all Acura needed to look at to understand that the coupe was not for them.
12-18-2008, 03:43 PM
#2003
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He said he wouldn't graduate high school. Therefore he slacked off in class, never did his homework, never studied. When he failed and didn't graduate, he dropped out and said, "See, i told you!"
Acura is the same as this kid. They figured the coupe market wasn't important, so they put in a half-ass attempt at a coupe with the CL, and when it failed, they decided the coupe market isn't for them.
12-18-2008, 03:46 PM
#2004
The sizzle in the Steak
So when the market said no to their FWD coupe...(which appears to be all that they will ever offer)....Acura figured time to leave the near-lux coupe market all together.
12-18-2008, 04:39 PM
#2005
6G TLX-S
Agree. Acura has it's eyes focus only on the "luxury" market, at least it has tried. Acura will care less about the "enthusiast" market crowd who can be taken care by the Honda division.
12-18-2008, 04:39 PM
#2006
Senior Moderator
Doesn't surprise me one bit... It's almost like Acura/Honda was looking for a reason not to release it... Wonder what this means for a new S2K, CRZ, etc etc...
12-19-2008, 11:50 AM
#2007
Let me paint a clear(er) picture for you.
No contradiction. Acura has been doing well with a coupe. The CL sales were all Acura needed to look at to understand that the coupe was not for them.
Now Honda is scrambling like the rest of the automakers around the world.
The dead weight will be cut. Acura has a good amount of dead weight in the line-up. The RL, RDX are prime examples.....and now with the "beak" design....the big seller TL and TSX are in danger. In this economic environment there is not much going for the Acura line-up...and combine that with a horrible design direction as of late....it's a one-two punch of devastation for Acura.
Acura cares ZERO about the "enthusiast" market. Acura has not had that market for years. Acura does not want the RSX or Teg crowd. Those peeps can go buy civics for all Honda cares.
Acura has and is slowly loosing the "faithful".
No contradiction. Acura has been doing well with a coupe. The CL sales were all Acura needed to look at to understand that the coupe was not for them.
Now Honda is scrambling like the rest of the automakers around the world.
The dead weight will be cut. Acura has a good amount of dead weight in the line-up. The RL, RDX are prime examples.....and now with the "beak" design....the big seller TL and TSX are in danger. In this economic environment there is not much going for the Acura line-up...and combine that with a horrible design direction as of late....it's a one-two punch of devastation for Acura.
Acura cares ZERO about the "enthusiast" market. Acura has not had that market for years. Acura does not want the RSX or Teg crowd. Those peeps can go buy civics for all Honda cares.
Acura has and is slowly loosing the "faithful".
i guess i wont be getting an acura tattoo afterall...
12-19-2008, 12:21 PM
#2008
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Yeah, i knew a kid in high school that was a freakin' idiot.
He said he wouldn't graduate high school. Therefore he slacked off in class, never did his homework, never studied. When he failed and didn't graduate, he dropped out and said, "See, i told you!"
Acura is the same as this kid. They figured the coupe market wasn't important, so they put in a half-ass attempt at a coupe with the CL, and when it failed, they decided the coupe market isn't for them.
He said he wouldn't graduate high school. Therefore he slacked off in class, never did his homework, never studied. When he failed and didn't graduate, he dropped out and said, "See, i told you!"
Acura is the same as this kid. They figured the coupe market wasn't important, so they put in a half-ass attempt at a coupe with the CL, and when it failed, they decided the coupe market isn't for them.
I don't think they wanted the CL to have low sales but they are defiantly using it as an excuse not to design something better.
12-20-2008, 12:07 AM
#2009
Punk Rocker
Well Infiniti decided to go the un-Acura route with the G-coupe and that has worked out pretty well for them. The bozos running Acura just don't have a clue is all.....
12-20-2008, 01:20 AM
#2010
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and this is why the majority (or at least a great deal) of the big posters on this forum do not drive an Acura anymore. BMW, Audi, VW, Lexus, Infiniti, Nissan, Mazda, Mitsu, Subaru, etc., the list goes on and on. I guess in Honda's defense, it would be hard to sell a specialty product like the NSX in such economic conditions, but this is another example in what has been a case study in failed development and lost opportunities; this car should have been made 2-3 years ago, and even then it was late.
12-20-2008, 09:08 PM
#2011
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But Infiniti HAD to do something since it was a pretty bad shape before the G35 came out. Thanks to Ghosn and Renault's financial background Infiniti could "reform" itself. And when it was doing so bad, hey, might as well try something new. And for sure it has been working great for them. I can't say the same for Acura though, it has been seeing steady growth most of the time, The accountants there must be asking, "why make changes when you are already doing well?" Not saying that's a right thing to do, but I'd imagine that's one of the reasons why we don't see many "interesting products" from Acura.
12-20-2008, 09:42 PM
#2012
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But Infiniti HAD to do something since it was a pretty bad shape before the G35 came out. Thanks to Ghosn and Renault's financial background Infiniti could "reform" itself. And when it was doing so bad, hey, might as well try something new. And for sure it has been working great for them. I can't say the same for Acura though, it has been seeing steady growth most of the time, The accountants there must be asking, "why make changes when you are already doing well?" Not saying that's a right thing to do, but I'd imagine that's one of the reasons why we don't see many "interesting products" from Acura.
I'm not saying to pour all money into building machines "powered by dreams" when money's tight, but at least continue to do SOMETHING that'll help improve Acura's image, because at Honda, money's NOT that tight...if they want to know what tight is the should talk to the big-3. And building 49ft robots isn't going to improve Acura's image..
But of course, that's long-term thinking...when the economy recovers, Acura will once again find itself with a poor brand image and trying to play catchup.
12-20-2008, 10:55 PM
#2013
Acura probably could use a GT coupe to better compete with some of the stonger lux brands. These cars tend to generate talk and prestige for the brand too. Maybe not as much as the "supercar" but still some. The Accord coupe is nice but it doesn't have the cachet to be mentioned in the same sentence as some of the well known lux coupes out right now. They could build a nice one off the new TL platform similar to how Audi built the A5 off the A4 platform.
12-21-2008, 01:26 AM
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when the company is in a good situation in a bad economy like Honda is, a company can afford to take calculated risks because the downfall wouldn't hurt as much. Even better yet, these risks should have been taken YEARS ago when the market was in good condition. But with the downturn in the market, Honda IS still in a good position where it can take risks without having to worry about whether it'll still be around if one product fails because it has all the other products to keep them going. That's why Honda should have continued with the NSX project...how much effort and costs have they already put into it, only to kill it when it was so close to completion anyway? Even if it sells in very low numbers due to the economy, the prestige and image payoff would be well worth it for the brand, especially when the economy recovers so they hit the ground running as a tier-1 brand!
I'm not saying to pour all money into building machines "powered by dreams" when money's tight, but at least continue to do SOMETHING that'll help improve Acura's image, because at Honda, money's NOT that tight...if they want to know what tight is the should talk to the big-3. And building 49ft robots isn't going to improve Acura's image..
But of course, that's long-term thinking...when the economy recovers, Acura will once again find itself with a poor brand image and trying to play catchup.
I'm not saying to pour all money into building machines "powered by dreams" when money's tight, but at least continue to do SOMETHING that'll help improve Acura's image, because at Honda, money's NOT that tight...if they want to know what tight is the should talk to the big-3. And building 49ft robots isn't going to improve Acura's image..
But of course, that's long-term thinking...when the economy recovers, Acura will once again find itself with a poor brand image and trying to play catchup.
On the other hand, I guess it's Honda way of doing things - better safe than sorry. And I think things get quite complicated. The idea behind this NSX is to improve Acura's image. Then there are reasons why they want to improve Acura's image: they want it to be a "Tier-1" brand. They want to launch the brand in Europe and Japan. Now, with this economy, they have to delay the launch date of Acura in these countries as we all know it costs a lot of money to launch a brand successfully. Then, what's going to happen when the NSX come out? All it does is improve the image of Acura of America. People in other places still don't know what Acura is because Honda is delaying the launch of the brand. I guess what I'm saying is, they want to launch the NSX and the Acura brand worldwide at the same time, (or about the same time). I mean, the NSX is pretty much developed already as we have seen it running in the Ring several times. I'd imagine they will pick up with the NSX project when they are ready to work on launching the Acura
brand worldwide.
I hope what I said makes sense!
12-21-2008, 11:01 AM
#2016
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lol I was strictly talking about Infiniti. Of course I'd love to see them continue with the NSX project.
On the other hand, I guess it's Honda way of doing things - better safe than sorry. And I think things get quite complicated. The idea behind this NSX is to improve Acura's image. Then there are reasons why they want to improve Acura's image: they want it to be a "Tier-1" brand. They want to launch the brand in Europe and Japan. Now, with this economy, they have to delay the launch date of Acura in these countries as we all know it costs a lot of money to launch a brand successfully. Then, what's going to happen when the NSX come out? All it does is improve the image of Acura of America. People in other places still don't know what Acura is because Honda is delaying the launch of the brand. I guess what I'm saying is, they want to launch the NSX and the Acura brand worldwide at the same time, (or about the same time). I mean, the NSX is pretty much developed already as we have seen it running in the Ring several times. I'd imagine they will pick up with the NSX project when they are ready to work on launching the Acura
brand worldwide.
I hope what I said makes sense!
On the other hand, I guess it's Honda way of doing things - better safe than sorry. And I think things get quite complicated. The idea behind this NSX is to improve Acura's image. Then there are reasons why they want to improve Acura's image: they want it to be a "Tier-1" brand. They want to launch the brand in Europe and Japan. Now, with this economy, they have to delay the launch date of Acura in these countries as we all know it costs a lot of money to launch a brand successfully. Then, what's going to happen when the NSX come out? All it does is improve the image of Acura of America. People in other places still don't know what Acura is because Honda is delaying the launch of the brand. I guess what I'm saying is, they want to launch the NSX and the Acura brand worldwide at the same time, (or about the same time). I mean, the NSX is pretty much developed already as we have seen it running in the Ring several times. I'd imagine they will pick up with the NSX project when they are ready to work on launching the Acura
brand worldwide.
I hope what I said makes sense!
The other way to do it is to time when the market will recover and start trying to move things fowrard, but with Honda's history of shitty timing (late to the SUV craze, STILL late to RWD/V8, STILL late to anything higher than a 5spd auto tranny, STILL late to direct injection, STILL late with an NSX, etc. etc. etc.), as the market recovers and is doing well, Acura will find itself behind others.
But in the end, Honda reacts like many other companies do to please shareholder's short term interests before anyone else.
12-21-2008, 12:50 PM
#2017
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I think what you just said, would be what Soichiro Honda would do - get everything set up when everyone's down. And I think those are the two sides of doing things, and at the end of the day, most people voted for holding back for now I guess? May be they think gas price will go up again, or may be they are worried about the government raising the fuel economy limit once again (is it 35mpg average?), and they want to make sure they can achieve that by introducing a whole bunch of hybrid cars?
12-21-2008, 01:52 PM
#2018
I feel the need...
when the company is in a good situation in a bad economy like Honda is, a company can afford to take calculated risks because the downfall wouldn't hurt as much. Even better yet, these risks should have been taken YEARS ago when the market was in good condition. But with the downturn in the market, Honda IS still in a good position where it can take risks without having to worry about whether it'll still be around if one product fails because it has all the other products to keep them going. That's why Honda should have continued with the NSX project...how much effort and costs have they already put into it, only to kill it when it was so close to completion anyway?
In the bold - it does seem to be a very short-sighted decision. The global economy won't be in a perma funk (one should hope), so why throw away a halo car when they desperately need one. Guess there's no need to delay my fun car decision on this aborted fetus.
12-22-2008, 05:25 PM
#2019
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anyone consider that the reason that acura isnt making a new coupe is b/c, god forbid, it is a success itll seriously cut down on accord sales? im thinkin thats a main reason. not just b/c cl's werent the biggest hit (but still pretty badass in my opinion).
12-22-2008, 06:09 PM
#2020
how handsome I am
what the fuck are you talking about? can you please elaborate on how releasing an updated halo car for a luxury brand would affect sales of one of the best selling (if not THE best selling) mid-size sedans in the market?
12-22-2008, 06:23 PM
#2022
The sizzle in the Steak
put down the bong.
12-22-2008, 08:40 PM
#2023
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ok so you dont think that if acura put out maybe a newer model, lets just say, like the cl it wouldnt be an alternative for some people looking to buy a accord v6 coupe? im thinkin if you say no you've lost a few brain cells yourself.
12-22-2008, 08:49 PM
#2024
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Hypothetically and veering away from the NSX discussion for a minute, if acura released a convincing mass-market coupe that could compete in sales with the G37/3-series coupes and it steals sales away from the accord coupe, wouldn't this be a GOOD thing? First of all, the accord coupe sells in low volumes compared to the sedan, so a lost sale in itself isn't that bad. Secondly, if the accord coupe lost a sale to a supposed Acura coupe not only is this not bad, it's a GOOD thing because the margin on an Acura coupe is likely going to be larger than the margin on an accord coupe...that's the reason for having a "premium" brand in the first place, to sell cars at lower numbers but with higher margins!
12-22-2008, 08:52 PM
#2025
Senior Moderator
See Infiniti - Nissan
EDIT: And what deeno just said...
12-22-2008, 08:55 PM
#2026
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this is true. im just saying i think one of the reasons that acura isnt making a coupe is b/c it doesnt want to be competing with itself, well with honda. just thought it was a valid point to be made.
12-23-2008, 01:00 AM
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On the other hand, coming up with a whole new platform will cost a lot of extra money, much more than just re-engineering the Accord to make the TL and CL. I guess that's one of the reasons a new Acura coupe is not here yet. They had the CL before, it didn't do well. It was based on the Accord, it's FWD, not RWD. I'd imagine it didn't matter too much to Honda though as it probably costed them a little to make the make the CL. Right now, they don't have a dedicated RWD platform yet, so it doesn't make much sense for them to use the Accord to build another CL. And I guess what most people are saying is, Honda needs to give a dedicated RWD platform to Acura, and design a whole bunch of cars based on that platform. Obviously they won't make one platform just for the CL, as that would cost way too much. Now with this economy, and with Honda doing some drastic cost cutting, I think the new platform won't come out anytime soon, and so a CL replacement will not come until who knows when.
12-23-2008, 09:02 AM
#2032
Race Director
This car may be dead (for now) but you can bet that some of the parts/ideas/designs will make it to the next RL. The NSX replacement may have been a good idea when money was plentiful - but now they need something that sells and they can make money on.
The NSX was great but only many years after its cancellation did the true story of how much of a money pit it really was - Honda (and no one else) can take on money losers like that right now.
The NSX was great but only many years after its cancellation did the true story of how much of a money pit it really was - Honda (and no one else) can take on money losers like that right now.
12-23-2008, 11:02 AM
#2033
A V10 RL?
12-23-2008, 11:10 AM
#2034
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This car may be dead (for now) but you can bet that some of the parts/ideas/designs will make it to the next RL. The NSX replacement may have been a good idea when money was plentiful - but now they need something that sells and they can make money on.
The NSX was great but only many years after its cancellation did the true story of how much of a money pit it really was - Honda (and no one else) can take on money losers like that right now.
The NSX was great but only many years after its cancellation did the true story of how much of a money pit it really was - Honda (and no one else) can take on money losers like that right now.
12-23-2008, 11:21 AM
#2035
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For those that say that a new RWD platform is expensive to R&D, that's correct, it is! Which is the reason they should have had one designed and developed while money was still flowing like water! But better yet, they ALREADY HAVE a RWD platform they could have milked for more...the S2000's platform!
They could have stretched it for a compact sedan (sportier TSX?) or even kept it the same and released an Acura roadster...this would at least give enthusiasts something to think about as well as distributing the costs of that platform to more than one model. Instead, with all their great wisdom, they decide to keep it for a SINGLE, LOW VOLUME, NICHE model.
Same with the NSX...it was a money pit, but well worth it (at the time). They developed an expensive platform for a SINGLE, LOW VOLUME, NICHE model. Wouldn't that money ahve been better spent developing a RWD platform for several models, bettering the chances of recouping their investment?
Why weren't all the people who are saying 'cost' is an issue saying that it was an issue back when the S2000 or NSX was being designed?
They could have stretched it for a compact sedan (sportier TSX?) or even kept it the same and released an Acura roadster...this would at least give enthusiasts something to think about as well as distributing the costs of that platform to more than one model. Instead, with all their great wisdom, they decide to keep it for a SINGLE, LOW VOLUME, NICHE model.
Same with the NSX...it was a money pit, but well worth it (at the time). They developed an expensive platform for a SINGLE, LOW VOLUME, NICHE model. Wouldn't that money ahve been better spent developing a RWD platform for several models, bettering the chances of recouping their investment?
Why weren't all the people who are saying 'cost' is an issue saying that it was an issue back when the S2000 or NSX was being designed?
12-23-2008, 11:26 AM
#2036
Senior Moderator
NSX would be a $100K coupe vs. a $30K Accord coupe... not too many people crossshop a 100K exotic with a grocery getting daily driver...
12-23-2008, 11:30 AM
#2037
Senior Moderator
They were talking about making the NSX replacement a front engined SH-AWD layout, so having a V8 sh-awd RL in both sedan and coupe versions in theory could use some of the "bits" from the nsx
I'd love to see a ~ $40K sub-nsx... RWD coupe w/ a 3.5L v6. It could look like the new Accord, just with RWD...
But with the way things are going, Acura might just stick to making FWD accord based sedans and suvs...
12-23-2008, 11:31 AM
#2038
Senior Moderator
For those that say that a new RWD platform is expensive to R&D, that's correct, it is! Which is the reason they should have had one designed and developed while money was still flowing like water! But better yet, they ALREADY HAVE a RWD platform they could have milked for more...the S2000's platform!
They could have stretched it for a compact sedan (sportier TSX?) or even kept it the same and released an Acura roadster...this would at least give enthusiasts something to think about as well as distributing the costs of that platform to more than one model. Instead, with all their great wisdom, they decide to keep it for a SINGLE, LOW VOLUME, NICHE model.
Same with the NSX...it was a money pit, but well worth it (at the time). They developed an expensive platform for a SINGLE, LOW VOLUME, NICHE model. Wouldn't that money ahve been better spent developing a RWD platform for several models, bettering the chances of recouping their investment?
Why weren't all the people who are saying 'cost' is an issue saying that it was an issue back when the S2000 or NSX was being designed?
They could have stretched it for a compact sedan (sportier TSX?) or even kept it the same and released an Acura roadster...this would at least give enthusiasts something to think about as well as distributing the costs of that platform to more than one model. Instead, with all their great wisdom, they decide to keep it for a SINGLE, LOW VOLUME, NICHE model.
Same with the NSX...it was a money pit, but well worth it (at the time). They developed an expensive platform for a SINGLE, LOW VOLUME, NICHE model. Wouldn't that money ahve been better spent developing a RWD platform for several models, bettering the chances of recouping their investment?
Why weren't all the people who are saying 'cost' is an issue saying that it was an issue back when the S2000 or NSX was being designed?
Its pretty amazing when you think about what they did only 10 years ago. Back when the S2000 and NSX were conceived there were still people at Honda that cared about making cars and respected what the founder's message was. Even if it meant dedicated platforms for niche products.
Those people are no longer around or being heard. They've strayed pretty far in 10 short years.
12-23-2008, 12:33 PM
#2039
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Its funny how almost nothing comes out of Honda rumors...
remember the pics of an S2000 coupe to be branded an Acura? Remember that article about that NSX replacement being test driven with a ferarri and the ferarri crashed (about 5 years ago if i recall)? Remember the Dualnote concept that was to hint at the next RL? etc. etc.? Even back in 2000 when i bought my CL, the dealers were hinting the next RL would be RWD and offer a V8.
I guess we can add to that list of rumors that will never come true the NSX successor, V10 engines, and tier-1 RL.
remember the pics of an S2000 coupe to be branded an Acura? Remember that article about that NSX replacement being test driven with a ferarri and the ferarri crashed (about 5 years ago if i recall)? Remember the Dualnote concept that was to hint at the next RL? etc. etc.? Even back in 2000 when i bought my CL, the dealers were hinting the next RL would be RWD and offer a V8.
I guess we can add to that list of rumors that will never come true the NSX successor, V10 engines, and tier-1 RL.
12-23-2008, 05:54 PM
#2040
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For those that say that a new RWD platform is expensive to R&D, that's correct, it is! Which is the reason they should have had one designed and developed while money was still flowing like water! But better yet, they ALREADY HAVE a RWD platform they could have milked for more...the S2000's platform!
They could have stretched it for a compact sedan (sportier TSX?) or even kept it the same and released an Acura roadster...this would at least give enthusiasts something to think about as well as distributing the costs of that platform to more than one model. Instead, with all their great wisdom, they decide to keep it for a SINGLE, LOW VOLUME, NICHE model.
Same with the NSX...it was a money pit, but well worth it (at the time). They developed an expensive platform for a SINGLE, LOW VOLUME, NICHE model. Wouldn't that money ahve been better spent developing a RWD platform for several models, bettering the chances of recouping their investment?
Why weren't all the people who are saying 'cost' is an issue saying that it was an issue back when the S2000 or NSX was being designed?
They could have stretched it for a compact sedan (sportier TSX?) or even kept it the same and released an Acura roadster...this would at least give enthusiasts something to think about as well as distributing the costs of that platform to more than one model. Instead, with all their great wisdom, they decide to keep it for a SINGLE, LOW VOLUME, NICHE model.
Same with the NSX...it was a money pit, but well worth it (at the time). They developed an expensive platform for a SINGLE, LOW VOLUME, NICHE model. Wouldn't that money ahve been better spent developing a RWD platform for several models, bettering the chances of recouping their investment?
Why weren't all the people who are saying 'cost' is an issue saying that it was an issue back when the S2000 or NSX was being designed?
The NSX was designed mainly to show what Honda was capable of. I think I talked about this before, it's the link between Honda F1 success and the family cars (Accord and Civic). And besides, it was developed when Soichiro Honda was still around. And this car was designed to lose money anyways. Its intention was not to generate profit.
On the other hand, if we are talking about a mainstream luxury coupe, one that is supposed to make money, then developing one platform for that car alone is not feasible. That platform should be used elsewhere to to spread the cost.