Acura: Development and Technology News
11-20-2014, 10:34 AM
#3881
Team Owner
Someone should remind Acura that using the letter "X" was cool well over a decade ago, getting closer to 2 decades now. It went out with "xtreme" a long time ago. Slapping an "X" on the RL or TL doesn't make it revolutionary, lol
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justnspace (11-20-2014)
11-20-2014, 10:51 AM
#3882
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Anytime 'extreme' is overused I think of Harold and Kumar and those douchebags at the convenience store...
01-20-2015, 01:08 PM
#3883
Safety Car
AutomobileMag
With the 2016 Acura ILX giving up its six-speed manual in favor of a new dual-clutch transmission, the Acura lineup will be without a manual transmission for the 1st time since the brand’s inception in 1986. The new 2016 Acura NSX signifies that there is still some life in Honda’s premium brand, but the way we see it, the manual transmission is done at Acura. New dual-clutch transmissions are taking over, and we don’t foresee the manual coming back to the lineup anytime soon. Here’s hoping that Acura will prove us wrong in the future.
Here, in chronological order, we take a look at all of the Acura models that have ever offered a shift-it-yourself option over the brand’s 30-year history.
Acura Legend (1986-1996)
The Acura Legend was the brand’s 1st model to go on sale in the U.S., and was originally based on the Honda Accord sedan. The 1st sedan models in 1986 initially offered a 2.5-liter V-6 engine that could be paired with a 5-speed manual, while the coupe was powered by a slightly larger, 2.7-liter V-6 when it hit showrooms in 1987.
The Legend was redesigned in 1990, and continued to offer a V-6/5-speed manual combination. The V-6 was updated for more power in 1993, and the manual transmission went up to 6 speeds for coupe versions of the Legend. A GS trim level then briefly offered the 6-speed manual and the coupe’s sport suspension in the sedan between 1994 and 1996.
Acura Integra (1986-2001)
Along with the Legend sedan, the Integra compact was 1 of the 1st models to launch the Acura brand in the U.S. in 1986. The 1st-generation, Civic-based hatchback offered a manual transmission for its 4-cylinder engine.
The 2nd-generation Integra debuted in 1990 and added a sportier GS-R model with a 160-hp VTEC 4-cylinder engine. This model started to put the Integra on the map as a world-class sport compact, and the 3rd-generation Integra took this even further when it hit showrooms starting in 1994.
The 3rd-gen Acura Integra GS-R’s VTEC 4-cylinder engine jumped up to 170 hp, and an Integra Type R debuted in 1997 with an even more powerful engine boasting 195 hp, a 5-speed manual transmission, and an 8,400-rpm redline. This special Integra remains the only Type R model Honda has ever sold in the U.S.
Acura NSX (1990-2005)
Acura’s seminal supercar was a breakthrough for the brand, showing that the Japanese could produce a world-class sports car that was reliable and accessible. At the beginning of its long, 15-year production run, the NSX came standard with a 3.0-liter V-6 engine and a 5-speed manual transmission. In 1997, that powertrain combination bumped up to 3.2-liters and a 6-speed transmission, and this 290-hp configuration held out until the car went out of production in 2005, though a 4-speed automatic was also offered.
Acura Vigor (1992-1994)
The easily forgotten Vigor was only offered briefly in the 1990s as a sub-TL luxury sedan. It did distinguish itself by being the only Acura offered with an inline 5-cylinder engine, Honda’s 2.5-liter motor from the G-series engine family. It came standard with a 5-speed manual transmission and made 196 hp, and was longitudinally mounted even though the Vigor was a front-wheel-drive car.
Acura CL (1997-1999; 2003)
The Acura CL was essentially the coupe version of the midsize TL sedan, and the 1st generation debuted in 1997 with both a 2.2-liter 4-cylinder and a 3.0-liter V-6. The smaller engine was available with a 5-speed manual transmission, and the updated 1998 and 1999 models could also pair a manual with the larger, 2.3-liter 4-cylinder.
When the CL returned in 2001, the new model did not originally offer a stickshift. A 3.2-liter V-6 was the only engine choice, but Acura added a Type-S model starting for the 2003 model year that finally paired this engine with a 6-speed manual along with other performance-enhancing options including a limited-slip differential.
Acura RSX (2002-2006)
The Acura RSX replaced the Integra starting in 2002, but the name change didn’t accompany much of a change in objective. The RSX was still a sporty hatchback, and offered both 160-hp standard models and a performance-oriented, 200-hp Type-S. Both were available with manual transmissions, with the standard RSX having a 5-speed and the Type-S having a 6-speed.
Acura TL (2004-2014)
The 1st 2 generations of the Acura TL sedan, produced from 1995 to 2003, went without a manual transmission and were relatively staid luxury sedans. In 2004, Acura re-energized the TL with more daring styling, a much more powerful V-6 engine, and, yes, a shift-it-yourself option. From 2004 to 2006, the sportier TL offered a 6-speed manual for the 3.2-liter V-6 on the standard car. Then, when the car was revised in 2007, the manual-transmission option was restricted to the new Type-S model with a larger, 3.5-liter V-6 that made 286 hp.
The 4th-generation TL introduced for the 2009 model year continued this sporty trend with the available manual transmission in the SH-AWD model. This 6-speed transmission paired with a larger, 3.7-liter V-6 engine that put out 305 hp through all 4 wheels.
Acura TSX (2004-2014)
The Acura TSX was a compact sport luxury sedan based on the European-market Honda Accord. When it debuted in the U.S. in 2004, it was well-received by the press, with much of the praise being heaped on the delightful 6-speed manual transmission paired with the standard 2.4-liter 4-cylinder.
When the 2nd-generation TSX was introduced in 2009, it continued to offer a stickshift option for the 4-cylinder. Sadly, the manual did not make its way onto the rare TSX Sport Wagon, and disappeared for 2015 when the TSX and TL were combined into 1 model, the 2015 Acura TLX.
Acura ILX (2013-2015)
The Acura ILX was introduced for 2013 as a new entry-level model for the brand, and borrowed from the Civic Si’s engine bay for the 2.4L model that came only with a 6-speed manual transmission. ILX sales never really took off, and comparisons to the mainstream Civic were inevitable since the standard ILX and ILX Hybrid borrowed their middling 4-cylinder powertrains and automatic transmissions from the ubiquitous Honda compact.
Acura is focusing in on the ILX lineup for 2016, doing away with the manual option and narrowing the powertrain options down to a 1-choice-only 2.4-liter 4-cylinder paired with the company’s new 8-speed, dual-clutch automatic transmission introduced in the TLX.
01-24-2015, 09:46 AM
#3884
Acura Is Getting Off the Stick—And Here’s Why
Acura Is Getting Off the Stick?And Here's Why ? News ? Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog
If you were at all car-aware in the 1990s and 2000s, Acura was squarely on your radar. From the brand’s first Legends, to the iconic Integra, to the follow-up RSX and the halo-status NSX, Acura’s lineup always included something for the gearheads among us, complete with honest-to-goodness manual transmissions.
Not anymore. Come the 2016 model year, the only three-pedal vehicle left in Acura’s lineup—the somewhat slow-selling, Civic-based ILX—will lose its six-speed stick in favor of a dual-clutch automatic.
That’s a strange shift for the brand that helped define the affordable end of automotive enthusiasm in North America these past three decades. Who’s to blame?
Broadly speaking, it’s all of us. Which is to say, American car buyers and our vehicular preferences.
“The trend is clear for Acura as it has been for virtually every premium brand as well as mainstream brands,” said Sam Abuelsamid, senior analyst at Navigant Research. “There has been a shift in the marketplace away from cars to crossovers and SUVs.”
The numbers bear this out: Navigant’s research shows a steady increase in CUVs as a percentage of Acura’s sales. It also shows a bit of an overall sales slump in the mid-2000s, from which Acura has only partly recovered.
Why there are no more stick-shift Acuras
Climbing out of that ditch means Acura has to focus on moneymakers, not fringy enthusiast offerings. And that, of course, means self-shifting crossovers, not the sprightly hot hatches we remember from the Fast & Furious heyday.
“Demand for manuals in cars in the U.S. market has always been low, and that is even more true in utilities,” Abuelsamid explains. “As car sales volumes have continued to shrink over the past decade, and emissions and fuel economy regulations get tighter, it gets increasingly difficult to justify the resources necessary to engineer, calibrate, and certify a manual transmission for diminishing volumes.”
“But wait,” the stick-shift purist in all of us cries. “Honda still sells plenty of manual transmission cars. Why can’t Acura?”
It’s a volume problem. “Three models—Accord, Civic and CR-V—each sell more than twice as many units as the entire Acura brand,” Abuelsamid explains. “In each case, the number of manual-equipped vehicles likely exceeds the volumes of any single Acura model. From a business case, it’s easier to justify the resources to develop and certify a manual for the Honda than for an Acura.”
And don’t forget: Outside of the North American market, Acura barely exists at all. The Acura RL doubles as a Honda Legend in Asia; the old TSX was a rebadged Euro-market Accord, but that’s gone; the ILX, TLX, and other crossovers barely register a footprint outside North America.
Why there are no more stick-shift Acuras
This is what you’ll find in the console of the Acura RLX and V-6–powered TLX.
Viewed through that pragmatic lens, it’s almost a wonder that Acura was able to enjoy its ’90s and 2000s gearhead boom times at all.
“Acura was in the right place at the right time 15 to 20 years ago,” Dave Sullivan, an analyst with AutoPacific, told us. “The whole import-tuner scene focused on Honda and Acura. Remember when people used to steal HID headlights off Acuras to put them on their Honda?
“Acura was selling cars with all the go-fast stuff on it from the factory. Then the CUV craze hit.”
Both Abuelsamid and Sullivan point to the same clutch of reasons you hear every time a carmaker drops its third pedal: A low stick-shift take rate makes designing, engineering, calibrating, and certifying a manual model exceedingly expensive. Today’s automatics are both faster and more fuel-efficient than the row-your-own varieties, reversing the manual’s long-held advantages.
Why there are no more stick-shift Acuras
“It’s a lot easier to optimize a vehicle for maximum EPA fuel economy label values using an automatic transmission,” Abuelsamid points out.
“Americans would rather hold their phones and drink kale smoothies instead of shift gears,” Sullivan groans.
And then there’s the reality that, even for those of us who steadfastly clutch our console-sprouted soul-stirrers, today’s autonomous cog-swappers just plain do the job better than us. “If you want performance, you can get the car to do the work,” Sullivan points out. “Look at the GT-R. Look at the new CTS-V.”
2016 Acura NSX Production Version Unveiled
2016 Acura ILX Debuts: One Engine, Eight-Speed Dual-Clutch Transmission
A New Acura Integra? Just Wait, We’re Told
So, yes. 2016 will be the dawn of an unprecedented, clutchless era for Acura. In a way, we can only blame ourselves—or at least, our non-enthusiast neighbors, the ones who sneered at the loud, lowered, garish Integras that some of us clung to (including Car and Driver photographer Michael Simari, whose thoroughly abused track rat you see above). The same ones who ignored the three-pedal TSX sedan in favor of the auto-only MDX crossover, Acura’s strongest seller in 2014 by more than a three-to-one margin.
Will it last forever? It’s hard to say. Right now, Acura’s lineup doesn’t hold much for enthusiasts. That will change when the long-awaited 2016 NSX hits the market, of course.
Then again, the NSX comes with only one transmission, and it’s the kind that uses two pedals.
This story originally appeared on roadandtrack.com.
Not anymore. Come the 2016 model year, the only three-pedal vehicle left in Acura’s lineup—the somewhat slow-selling, Civic-based ILX—will lose its six-speed stick in favor of a dual-clutch automatic.
That’s a strange shift for the brand that helped define the affordable end of automotive enthusiasm in North America these past three decades. Who’s to blame?
Broadly speaking, it’s all of us. Which is to say, American car buyers and our vehicular preferences.
“The trend is clear for Acura as it has been for virtually every premium brand as well as mainstream brands,” said Sam Abuelsamid, senior analyst at Navigant Research. “There has been a shift in the marketplace away from cars to crossovers and SUVs.”
The numbers bear this out: Navigant’s research shows a steady increase in CUVs as a percentage of Acura’s sales. It also shows a bit of an overall sales slump in the mid-2000s, from which Acura has only partly recovered.
Why there are no more stick-shift Acuras
Climbing out of that ditch means Acura has to focus on moneymakers, not fringy enthusiast offerings. And that, of course, means self-shifting crossovers, not the sprightly hot hatches we remember from the Fast & Furious heyday.
“Demand for manuals in cars in the U.S. market has always been low, and that is even more true in utilities,” Abuelsamid explains. “As car sales volumes have continued to shrink over the past decade, and emissions and fuel economy regulations get tighter, it gets increasingly difficult to justify the resources necessary to engineer, calibrate, and certify a manual transmission for diminishing volumes.”
“But wait,” the stick-shift purist in all of us cries. “Honda still sells plenty of manual transmission cars. Why can’t Acura?”
It’s a volume problem. “Three models—Accord, Civic and CR-V—each sell more than twice as many units as the entire Acura brand,” Abuelsamid explains. “In each case, the number of manual-equipped vehicles likely exceeds the volumes of any single Acura model. From a business case, it’s easier to justify the resources to develop and certify a manual for the Honda than for an Acura.”
And don’t forget: Outside of the North American market, Acura barely exists at all. The Acura RL doubles as a Honda Legend in Asia; the old TSX was a rebadged Euro-market Accord, but that’s gone; the ILX, TLX, and other crossovers barely register a footprint outside North America.
Why there are no more stick-shift Acuras
This is what you’ll find in the console of the Acura RLX and V-6–powered TLX.
Viewed through that pragmatic lens, it’s almost a wonder that Acura was able to enjoy its ’90s and 2000s gearhead boom times at all.
“Acura was in the right place at the right time 15 to 20 years ago,” Dave Sullivan, an analyst with AutoPacific, told us. “The whole import-tuner scene focused on Honda and Acura. Remember when people used to steal HID headlights off Acuras to put them on their Honda?
“Acura was selling cars with all the go-fast stuff on it from the factory. Then the CUV craze hit.”
Both Abuelsamid and Sullivan point to the same clutch of reasons you hear every time a carmaker drops its third pedal: A low stick-shift take rate makes designing, engineering, calibrating, and certifying a manual model exceedingly expensive. Today’s automatics are both faster and more fuel-efficient than the row-your-own varieties, reversing the manual’s long-held advantages.
Why there are no more stick-shift Acuras
“It’s a lot easier to optimize a vehicle for maximum EPA fuel economy label values using an automatic transmission,” Abuelsamid points out.
“Americans would rather hold their phones and drink kale smoothies instead of shift gears,” Sullivan groans.
And then there’s the reality that, even for those of us who steadfastly clutch our console-sprouted soul-stirrers, today’s autonomous cog-swappers just plain do the job better than us. “If you want performance, you can get the car to do the work,” Sullivan points out. “Look at the GT-R. Look at the new CTS-V.”
2016 Acura NSX Production Version Unveiled
2016 Acura ILX Debuts: One Engine, Eight-Speed Dual-Clutch Transmission
A New Acura Integra? Just Wait, We’re Told
So, yes. 2016 will be the dawn of an unprecedented, clutchless era for Acura. In a way, we can only blame ourselves—or at least, our non-enthusiast neighbors, the ones who sneered at the loud, lowered, garish Integras that some of us clung to (including Car and Driver photographer Michael Simari, whose thoroughly abused track rat you see above). The same ones who ignored the three-pedal TSX sedan in favor of the auto-only MDX crossover, Acura’s strongest seller in 2014 by more than a three-to-one margin.
Will it last forever? It’s hard to say. Right now, Acura’s lineup doesn’t hold much for enthusiasts. That will change when the long-awaited 2016 NSX hits the market, of course.
Then again, the NSX comes with only one transmission, and it’s the kind that uses two pedals.
This story originally appeared on roadandtrack.com.
01-24-2015, 10:18 AM
#3885
The Third Ball
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Acura is a premium brand 
01-24-2015, 10:30 AM
#3886
Senior Moderator
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It is a premium brand. Is it luxurious? No.
Today's typical vehicle: SUV's filled with spilled Cheerios, whining brats and a xanax'ed single mom at the helm.
Today's typical vehicle: SUV's filled with spilled Cheerios, whining brats and a xanax'ed single mom at the helm.
01-24-2015, 10:48 AM
#3887
01-24-2015, 11:09 AM
#3888
The Third Ball
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Such sensitive Sallies in here, can't even take a joke. They are still entry level premium...This company that can't find a direction is still not in the same category as the premium they wish to complete with as they state in the article.
Last edited by Sarlacc; 01-24-2015 at 11:14 AM.
01-24-2015, 11:10 AM
#3889
The Third Ball
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01-24-2015, 11:11 AM
#3890
The Third Ball
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01-24-2015, 12:37 PM
#3891
I disagree with article. American's aren't drinking kale smoothies, but rather 64 ounce slurpies from 7-11.
And hey whats wrong with Xanax'd moms? Those are my patients you are talking about. I need $ to buy toys
And hey whats wrong with Xanax'd moms? Those are my patients you are talking about. I need $ to buy toys
01-24-2015, 12:58 PM
#3893
Senior Moderator
Join Date: May 2003
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You're referring to me?
And for the record, I didn't change anyone's posts. I changed the thread TITLE to reflect reality. That set of spyshots showed a test mule Odyssey using Acura parts.
And for the record, I didn't change anyone's posts. I changed the thread TITLE to reflect reality. That set of spyshots showed a test mule Odyssey using Acura parts.
Last edited by Ken1997TL; 01-24-2015 at 01:03 PM.
01-24-2015, 01:12 PM
#3894
The Third Ball
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01-26-2015, 08:26 AM
#3895
Safety Car
Road & Track
If you were at all car-aware in the 1990s and 2000s, Acura was squarely on your radar. From the brand's 1st Legends, to the iconic Integra, to the follow-up RSX and the halo-status NSX, Acura's lineup always included something for the gearheads among us, complete with honest-to-goodness manual transmissions.
Not anymore. Come the 2016 model year, the only 3-pedal vehicle left in Acura's lineup—the somewhat slow-selling, Civic-based ILX—will lose its 6-speed stick in favor of a dual-clutch automatic.
That's a strange shift for the brand that helped define the affordable end of automotive enthusiasm in North America these past 3 decades. Who's to blame?
Broadly speaking, it's all of us. Which is to say, American car buyers and our vehicular preferences.
"The trend is clear for Acura as it has been for virtually every premium brand as well as mainstream brands," Sam Abuelsamid, senior analyst at Navigant Research, told R&T. "There has been a shift in the marketplace away from cars to crossovers and SUVs."
The numbers bear this out: Navigant's research shows a steady increase in CUVs as a percentage of Acura's sales. It also shows a bit of an overall sales slump in the mid-2000s, from which Acura has only partly recovered.
Climbing out of that ditch means Acura has to focus on moneymakers, not fringy enthusiast offerings. And that, of course, means self-shifting crossovers, not the sprightly hot hatches we remember from the Fast & Furious heyday.
"Demand for manuals in cars in the U.S. market has always been low, and that is even more true in utilities," Abuelsamid explains. "As car sales volumes have continued to shrink over the past decade, and emissions and fuel economy regulations get tighter, it gets increasingly difficult to justify the resources necessary to engineer, calibrate and certify a manual transmission for diminishing volumes."
"But wait," the stick-shift purist in all of us cries. "Honda still sells plenty of manual transmission cars. Why can't Acura?"
It's a volume problem. "3 models—Accord, Civic and CR-V—each sell more than twice as many units as the entire Acura brand," Abuelsamid explains. "In each case, the number of manual-equipped vehicles likely exceeds the volumes of any single Acura model. From a business case, it's easier to justify the resources to develop and certify a manual for the Honda than for an Acura."
And don't forget: Outside of the North American market, Acura barely exists at all. The Acura RL doubles as a Honda Legend in Asia; the old TSX was a rebadged Euro-market Accord, but that's gone; the ILX, TLX, and other crossovers barely register a footprint outside North America.
Viewed through that pragmatic lens, it's almost a wonder that Acura was able to enjoy its 90s and 2000s gearhead boom times at all.
"Acura was in the right place at the right time 15 to 20 years ago," Dave Sullivan, an analyst with AutoPacific, told us. "The whole import-tuner scene focused on Honda and Acura. Remember when people used to steal HID headlights off Acuras to put them on their Honda?
"Acura was selling cars with all the go-fast stuff on it from the factory. Then the CUV craze hit."
Both Abuelsamid and Sullivan point to the same clutch of reasons you hear every time a carmaker drops its third pedal: A low stick-shift take rate makes designing, engineering, calibrating and certifying a manual model exceedingly expensive. Today's automatics are both faster and more fuel-efficient than the row-your-own varieties, reversing the manual's long-held advantages.
"It's a lot easier to optimize a vehicle for maximum EPA fuel economy label values using an automatic transmission," Abuelsamid points out.
"Americans would rather hold their phones and drink kale smoothies instead of shift gears," Sullivan groans.
And then there's the reality that, even for those of us who steadfastly clutch our console-sprouted soul-stirrers, today's autonomous cog-swappers just plain do the job better than us. "If you want performance, you can get the car to do the work," Sullivan points out. "Look at the GT-R. Look at the new CTS-V."
So, yes. 2016 will be the dawn of an unprecedented, clutchless era for Acura. In a way, we can only blame ourselves—or at least, our non-enthusiast neighbors, the ones who sneered at the loud, lowered, garish Integras that some of us clung to (including Car and Driver photographer Michael Simari, whose thoroughly-abused track rat you see above). The same ones who ignored the 3-pedal TSX sedan in favor of the auto-only MDX crossover, Acura's strongest seller in 2014 by more than a 3-to-1 margin.
Will it last forever? It's hard to say. Right now, Acura's lineup doesn't hold much for enthusiasts. That will change when the long-awaited 2016 NSX hits the market, of course.
Then again, the NSX only comes with 1 transmission, and it's the kind that only uses 2 pedals.
01-26-2015, 10:07 PM
#3896
Im not surprised by this. I drive for UPS and every summer when they hire and train new drivers, 1 or 2 out of 10 will usually already be good or will adjust quickly behind our manual tranny trucks, the rest just seem like they cant grasp it, but in the interviews theyre probably all like yea I droer a stick shift car before. In reality they havent, its a dying skill, and back to my point, the company is now in talks of contracting a teaching school to teach new drivers to drive stick, so let us hire you when you have no idea how to do this first. Right? And every single brand new truck ive seen that has been brought to our building is always automatic now. Havent seen any manual truck I. The building that was even made after 2005 now that I think about it...... on a side note, I do feel cool as shit rev matching in my friends tsx when he cant and he stares at me like wtf no clutch....
02-02-2015, 01:14 AM
#3897
Team Owner
02-04-2015, 09:51 PM
#3898
Azine Jabroni
More buzz on an HR-V based model.
Acura Could Get HR-V Variant
Acura Could Get HR-V Variant
Acura in recent years has become an SUV maker that has a side business in cars. Its MDX and RDX crossovers (updated versions of which are debuting at the Chicago auto show) far outsell any of its passenger cars. Now comes word that the brand may add another crossover to its stable. Interviewed by WardsAuto at the recent Automotive News World Conference, American Honda executive vice president John Mendel says that Acura is looking at a doing compact crossover based on the new Honda HR-V.
Compared to the brand’s current smallest crossover, the Acura RDX, the HR-V is some two feet shorter, four inches narrower, three inches lower, and sits astride a three-inch-shorter wheelbase. An Acura version with roughly the same dimensions (102.8-inch wheelbase, 169.1 inches long) would mesh pretty well with the newly emerging class of premium-brand baby crossovers: Audi QX3 (102.5-inch wheelbase, 172.6 inches long); BMW X1 (108.7-inch wheelbase, 176.5 inches long); Buick Encore (100.6-inch wheelbase, 168.4 inches long); and Mercedes-Benz GLA (106.3-inch wheelbase, 173.9 inches long).
Acura might want to consider upgrading the engine from Honda’s 138-hp, 1.8-liter four, however. With the exception of the Buick, all of the models in the competitive set rock a 2.0-liter engine with 200 horsepower or better. Maybe the 2.4-liter, 201-hp unit from the ILX would fit?
Presumably, a pint-sized Acura would also be priced below the RDX, which currently starts at $36,015. Might the wee SUV go below the ILX’s base sticker of $27,970? We wouldn’t bet on it. But Acura going forward with an HR-V-based crossover? We’d lay a few bucks down on that.
Compared to the brand’s current smallest crossover, the Acura RDX, the HR-V is some two feet shorter, four inches narrower, three inches lower, and sits astride a three-inch-shorter wheelbase. An Acura version with roughly the same dimensions (102.8-inch wheelbase, 169.1 inches long) would mesh pretty well with the newly emerging class of premium-brand baby crossovers: Audi QX3 (102.5-inch wheelbase, 172.6 inches long); BMW X1 (108.7-inch wheelbase, 176.5 inches long); Buick Encore (100.6-inch wheelbase, 168.4 inches long); and Mercedes-Benz GLA (106.3-inch wheelbase, 173.9 inches long).
Acura might want to consider upgrading the engine from Honda’s 138-hp, 1.8-liter four, however. With the exception of the Buick, all of the models in the competitive set rock a 2.0-liter engine with 200 horsepower or better. Maybe the 2.4-liter, 201-hp unit from the ILX would fit?
Presumably, a pint-sized Acura would also be priced below the RDX, which currently starts at $36,015. Might the wee SUV go below the ILX’s base sticker of $27,970? We wouldn’t bet on it. But Acura going forward with an HR-V-based crossover? We’d lay a few bucks down on that.
07-09-2015, 08:08 AM
#3899
Safety Car
CarConnection
The arrival of 9-speed automatic transmissions—with some hiccups in tuning—in several mass-market models this past year has led some to wonder whether more speeds is necessarily a step forward.
While the better mileage and stronger acceleration that more speeds can allow, drivability, it seems, has been lacking in some—yet not all—applications of the ‘9HP’ 9-speed automatic, from the German supplier ZF, that was introduced in 2013 and then more widely installed beginning this past year. Complaints about the Cherokee—either before or after an early reflash of the transmission control software—have ranged from harsh shifts to odd shift points for this transmission as it’s installed in the Jeep Cherokee, which was 1 of the 1st models to launch with it.
The ZF 9-speed is currently installed in the Cherokee, as well as the Jeep Renegade, Chrysler 200, Ram ProMaster City, Land Rover Range Rover Evoque, Land Rover Discovery, Acura TLX, and Acura MDX—and it’s on the way for several more vehicles within the next model year.
This past week, as part of a ZF tech day, we got a chance to drive several different vehicles back-to-back, and confirmed our earlier driving impressions: that it isn't entirely the fault of the transmission. The same unit's somewhat softer, more conservative calibration works to the benefit of drivability and smoothness in the Discovery Sport, versus those Jeep models, for instance.
Not properly fleshed out to American driving styles?
ZF officials are acutely aware of the drivability concerns. “1st of all, we learned that Americans drive differently,” said CEO Stefan Sommer, as part of a Q&A session. “We need to focus more on the regional-specific perception of how such a complex machine like an automatic transmission is working in the car, and as a consequence we have made a decision to bring more application engineering into the U.S....to be closer to the U.S. customer, to even frontload, in this tuning application work.”
Sommer called the new design of the 9HP “an encouraging new approach” that makes 9-speed technology available in a vehicle segment where it otherwise wouldn’t have been available; yet he noted the unusual arrangement, where ZF did the engineering and automakers oversaw the build (and shift strategy).
The 9HP transmission is indeed a breakthrough product in many ways. 1 of the most important, perhaps, is that it’s extremely compact; it can fit in essentially the same packaging space as ZF’s 6-speed automatic transmission that preceded it, thanks to a number of fresh engineering approaches, such as the incorporation of 2 special dog clutches.
That new design may have played a part in making the transmission more challenging to tune. So is a design that aims not for gears that are very closely spaced but for a very wide ratio spread—enabling an incredible 9.8 ratio spread for this transmission; that’s about triple that of old 3- or 4-speed automatics and about 50 percent more than most 6-speed automatics or continuously variable automatic transmissions (CVTs). That means not only quicker takeoffs from a lower 1st gear, but better mileage on the highway, potentially, from a taller top gear.
Frieder Mohr, an application engineer who’s worked with software and the internal controls for the 9-speed, said that the transmission goes through 2 levels of ‘adaptation’ to fine-tune its shift quality. 1 of those is as the transmission properly adjusts its shifts to internal tolerances, both when it’s new and as it wears. The 2nd is adaptation to driving style, which takes just a few minutes and a few shifts through each gear.
Tips that the dealership probably won’t tell you
Mohr gave the following useful tips on how the 9-speed’s software works:
If you’re the gentler driver in the household, a few lumpy shifts are to be expected each time you get in after the more aggressive 1. If 1 driver drives rapidly most or all the time, then it’s possible that the low-speed, low-load shifts won’t work so well, because the transmission will still be assuming the style of the more aggressive driver. It is possible that each time the gentler driver gets into the vehicle, the 1st few shifts may be firmer, but the software softens shift quality after just a few minutes of driving.
It’s actually important to mix driving styles when the vehicle is new. This is so that the transmission can ‘learn’ each shift over a range of conditions. The transmission could take longer to adapt if driven in a steady continuous way, but shifts should even then become smoother and more predictable over the long run.
That said, ZF isn’t willing to concede that all that we observe as odd drivability traits are related to their choices. When I asked about rough downshifts during a common American maneuver—a gentle rolling ‘stop’ followed by a right turn and moderate acceleration (1 that’s a non-event in the Discovery Sport), Mohr deflected to FCA’s choices. “It sounds like what you’re describing there is related not to adaptation but to shift strategy, which is determined by our customer,” he said.It’s actually important to mix driving styles when the vehicle is new. This is so that the transmission can ‘learn’ each shift over a range of conditions. The transmission could take longer to adapt if driven in a steady continuous way, but shifts should even then become smoother and more predictable over the long run.
Another engineer said that the supplier has found that Europeans expect partial-throttle downshifts on the highway in some cases—the 9-speed's apparent restlessness between 8th and 9th gear, in the 4-cylinder Cherokee, for example—where Americans might judge it to be a flaw.
And that’s really the 3rd component to this—the shift strategy itself. It’s the 1 aspect that’s not entirely under the ZF’s control, yet the supplier has likely learned a lesson that it should be more proactive.
You can be sure that other automakers are taking note. It might be time for automakers to wrap driving style into the keyfob profiles that are kept for a number of vehicles; that could be an easy remedy for this complexity. With more gears comes an even heavier burden on software and controls, and real-world tweaks.
Yet that hasn’t stopped several automakers—Ford and GM, for example—from working on 10-speeds. The more, the merrier.
07-17-2015, 06:11 PM
#3900
Senior Moderator
Acura: Development and Technology News
I think we've reached the point of diminishing returns with cogged transmissions. At ten gears, we might as well be considering CVT.
Last edited by neuronbob; 07-18-2015 at 01:29 PM.
The following users liked this post:
kurtatx (07-18-2015)
07-18-2015, 06:50 AM
#3901
AZ Community Team
^ 
07-20-2015, 10:56 PM
#3902
I'm the Firestarter
But CVTs are weak.
07-22-2015, 09:36 PM
#3903
Azine Jabroni
07-23-2015, 02:20 PM
#3904
Team Owner
So the clear solution to both of these problems is 6MT. Got it.
07-23-2015, 03:46 PM
#3905
Senior Moderator
07-23-2015, 07:44 PM
#3906
Moderator
07-24-2015, 02:16 AM
#3907
Team Owner
you just reminded me you have an AT......
07-24-2015, 10:59 AM
#3908
Moderator
30 miles each way for work, often in stop-and-go traffic. Too much of a pain with a manual.
07-24-2015, 10:06 PM
#3909
Azine Jabroni
07-25-2015, 08:03 AM
#3910
Senior Moderator
I think they have their place, especially when designed and implemented correctly. I like the idea of 8-10 gears myself as long as they are geared right. Any problems they are having with the ZF9 speed right now are nothing more than teething problems imho.
07-27-2015, 09:16 AM
#3911
Safety Car
AutoNews
Next year will see Acura's long-awaited NSX hybrid supercar land. After that, look for more turbo engines and a new baby crossover in the lineup.
ILX: A healthy re-engineering for 2016 saw the addition of a dual-clutch automatic transmission and a 2.4-liter 4-cylinder engine to this Honda Civic-based sedan. A redesign will arrive in 2017 as a 2018 model, at which point Honda's 2.0-liter turbo 4-cylinder could join the mix as an optional engine.
TLX: New for 2015 with either a V-6 or a 4-cylinder engine, the TLX will be re-engineered in the summer of 2017.
At that point, the 2.0-liter turbocharged 4 could join the mix. In 2019 the car gets redesigned, and the V-6 may not survive the transition.
RLX: A redesign is expected in 2018 as a 2019 model. Philosophically, the car won't change much from what it is now: Front-wheel drive and a V-6 carry over, as does a higher-trim hybrid variant.
CDX: This all-new model is due in 2017 as a 2018 model. It is based on the subcompact Honda HR-V crossover (itself based on the Fit hatchback) and will slot below the RDX in Acura's lineup. Look for it to carry a 1.5-liter turbocharged 4-cylinder engine, optional all-wheel drive and similarly clever interior packaging.
RDX: Freshened for the 2016 model year. Look for a redesign in the summer of 2017 as a 2018 model.
Since Honda has traditionally offered only a single engine in the RDX, the current V-6 will likely be replaced with a 2.0-liter turbo 4-cylinder, similar to many of the RDX's competitors.
MDX: A freshened MDX will debut in 2016 before the crossover is redesigned in 2019 as a 2020 model. The 2.0-liter turbocharged 4-cylinder may join the MDX family at that point, but don't expect it to replace the 3.5-liter V-6.
NSX: The 2nd generation of the NSX promises at least 550 hp from a twin-turbocharged 3.5-liter V-6 paired with electric motors and a 9-speed dual-clutch transmission.
Expect low production numbers and a starting price in the $150,000 range.
The following users liked this post:
benjaminh (07-29-2015)
08-02-2015, 05:46 PM
#3912
Senior Moderator
^ ever change the trans fluid? My first trans bit the dust after 60K of the orignal fluid. BMW refused to change the fluid but did band aid fixes under warranty (even when I offered to pay for new fluid) replacing seals, sensors, etc until the service manager drove my car and thought we had been rear-ended from the 2->1 downshift. Got a new trans and that ran fine until 85K where it made a grinding noise and would start slipping. That was replaced and it's on it's third, COMPLETE, new trans with new fluid too after the whole ordeal.
The AISIN 8-speed have been great. The issue really here is the engineering challenge and how it was approached. With the constraints given, ZF did a great job designing the trans. The rear issue here is wether ZF and honda/acura can mesh properly.
BMW/other brands design it's motor mounts way better than the mounts on the J-series. I've had to replace at least 4 in my 3G TL, 2 in my MDX and probably another few in the future. ZF's equipment probably vibrates in those cars but it's probably better isolated and not present. Something Honda didn't put thought into.
As said earlier, teething problems, but I hope Acura Exec and Engineering will green-light proper updates and fixes rather than convoluted band-aids. For example the TL Short-block saga with oil consumption and the MDX's as well.
BMW/other brands design it's motor mounts way better than the mounts on the J-series. I've had to replace at least 4 in my 3G TL, 2 in my MDX and probably another few in the future. ZF's equipment probably vibrates in those cars but it's probably better isolated and not present. Something Honda didn't put thought into.
As said earlier, teething problems, but I hope Acura Exec and Engineering will green-light proper updates and fixes rather than convoluted band-aids. For example the TL Short-block saga with oil consumption and the MDX's as well.
08-02-2015, 06:46 PM
#3913
Moderator
08-03-2015, 12:41 PM
#3914
Team Owner
Next year will see Acura's long-awaited NSX hybrid supercar land. After that, look for more turbo engines and a new baby crossover in the lineup.
ILX: A healthy re-engineering for 2016 saw the addition of a dual-clutch automatic transmission and a 2.4-liter 4-cylinder engine to this Honda Civic-based sedan. A redesign will arrive in 2017 as a 2018 model, at which point Honda's 2.0-liter turbo 4-cylinder could join the mix as an optional engine.
TLX: New for 2015 with either a V-6 or a 4-cylinder engine, the TLX will be re-engineered in the summer of 2017.
At that point, the 2.0-liter turbocharged 4 could join the mix. In 2019 the car gets redesigned, and the V-6 may not survive the transition.
RLX: A redesign is expected in 2018 as a 2019 model. Philosophically, the car won't change much from what it is now: Front-wheel drive and a V-6 carry over, as does a higher-trim hybrid variant.
CDX: This all-new model is due in 2017 as a 2018 model. It is based on the subcompact Honda HR-V crossover (itself based on the Fit hatchback) and will slot below the RDX in Acura's lineup. Look for it to carry a 1.5-liter turbocharged 4-cylinder engine, optional all-wheel drive and similarly clever interior packaging.
RDX: Freshened for the 2016 model year. Look for a redesign in the summer of 2017 as a 2018 model.
Since Honda has traditionally offered only a single engine in the RDX, the current V-6 will likely be replaced with a 2.0-liter turbo 4-cylinder, similar to many of the RDX's competitors.
MDX: A freshened MDX will debut in 2016 before the crossover is redesigned in 2019 as a 2020 model. The 2.0-liter turbocharged 4-cylinder may join the MDX family at that point, but don't expect it to replace the 3.5-liter V-6.
NSX: The 2nd generation of the NSX promises at least 550 hp from a twin-turbocharged 3.5-liter V-6 paired with electric motors and a 9-speed dual-clutch transmission.
Expect low production numbers and a starting price in the $150,000 range.
and TLX will lose its V6? WTF?
and RLX will stay the same?
So yah it is official that Acura will be a family brand that sells CUV/SUVs.
08-03-2015, 12:45 PM
#3916
Team Owner
i thought they could not be doing any worse after all these years.
they proved me wrong alright.
they proved me wrong alright.
08-11-2015, 05:50 PM
#3918
I feel the need...
Kia vs Acura -- The Importance of the Automobile User Interface
The Kia navigation system is flat out more responsive and intuitive than the current Acura MDX system....
Overall, the Kia Sorento impressed us bumper to bumper. It is as stylish as any car in its class, and its bumper crop of features and a delightfully intuitive user interface make it a clear winner over the Acura MDX.
Cliffs: Kia > Acura
08-11-2015, 06:07 PM
#3919
Team Owner
tell that to SSFTSX
08-11-2015, 06:13 PM
#3920
I feel the need...
I am scheduled to take our '15 SH-AWD TLX (actuator?) and '14 SH-AWD MDX (AC pulley?) in for (yet another) recall next week.
I will be shopping outside the brand a bit more diligently next round and certainly won't be purchasing any first year run models (NSX) notwithstanding.
I will be shopping outside the brand a bit more diligently next round and certainly won't be purchasing any first year run models (NSX) notwithstanding.