Acura: Development and Technology News
02-08-2008, 12:09 PM
#921
Senior Moderator
Ill take Diesel over a Hybrid any day!
02-08-2008, 12:35 PM
#923
Race Director
The hybrids for Lexus are a tiny percentage of the sales and virtually none of the profit. In about 10 years we'll find out that the hybrids made almost no money for Toyota.
Acura is quite sensible about the diesel approach to the mileage issue. And they can make money off them from the get go.
Memo to idiot writing this article - when you ask someone to compare two things and one of the things is not available of course people will prefer the known. How can anyone embrace something that doesn't exist. 
Ask this question in about two years when good clean (and cheaper than hybrids) diesels will be sold en masse and you'll get a much different answer.
Acura is quite sensible about the diesel approach to the mileage issue. And they can make money off them from the get go.
Recent reports have suggested American consumers aren’t ready to embrace diesel powered cars as willingly as hybrids, which could result in Acura’s gamble being a huge loss for the company
Ask this question in about two years when good clean (and cheaper than hybrids) diesels will be sold en masse and you'll get a much different answer.
02-08-2008, 12:41 PM
#924
I'm the Firestarter
I would love to get a diesel at my next car. I just want it to be sporty and not FWD, like a TSX SH-AWD or A4 quattro.
02-08-2008, 02:10 PM
#925
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by biker
Ask this question in about two years when good clean (and cheaper than hybrids) diesels will be sold en masse and you'll get a much different answer.
The average American has the imaginative capacity of a fruit fly. No disrespect to any fruit flies reading this board.
02-08-2008, 03:14 PM
#926
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by charliemike
Americans are idiots. As I mentioned in the Caractere thread the A5 3.0TDI does 0-60 in 5.8 seconds and gets 32mpg.
WTF do we need hybrids for again?
WTF do we need hybrids for again?
big
ill take one over a hybrid
02-08-2008, 04:12 PM
#928
Senior Moderator
I like hybrids as power adders. Particularly after having driven the LS600hL, RX400h and GS450h. Too bad, Lexus (and even Honda with the Accord) felt inclined to price gouge the technology with those models. 
I know they have come a long way since the soot coated bumpers of diesel cars of the 70s but, I am just not interested in owning a diesel.
I know they have come a long way since the soot coated bumpers of diesel cars of the 70s but, I am just not interested in owning a diesel.
diesel 
hybrid.diesel prius?
02-09-2008, 02:10 AM
#930
Race Director
Originally Posted by F23A4
I like hybrids as power adders. Particularly after having driven the LS600hL, RX400h and GS450h. Too bad, Lexus (and even Honda with the Accord) felt inclined to price gouge the technology with those models.
02-09-2008, 06:50 AM
#933
I miss my 03 CL-S :(
Perhaps the thought process for a lot of people is that Diesel is still oil based, so it does nothing to decrease oil dependency, while hybrids use less gasoline.
I don't know if that argument holds any truth, but that's the only thing I can think of.
A biodiesel TSX sounds cool
I don't know if that argument holds any truth, but that's the only thing I can think of.
A biodiesel TSX sounds cool
02-09-2008, 11:57 PM
#935
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by biker
They didn't price gouge - that's how much it's costing them (when you add in all the R&D spent). And even with those elevated prices they probably don't make as much per car as the regular models.
That said, the technology should be further developed to further reduce production costs and increase profitability....which is what Toyota (at least) is doing: LINK.
by the hybrid brigade!! 
02-11-2008, 05:17 PM
#937
I shoot people
I haven't been in a diesel since the M.B. we owned back in the early 80's... are they quieter now? Cuz that thing was loud as fuck...
02-12-2008, 07:35 AM
#938
Safety Car
In Related News
Hybrids Delaying Fuel Cells & Other Technologies
To most, hybrid vehicles like the Prius are a step in the right direction towards a future of ‘greener’ motoring but a new study has found that such cars are actually holding back other alternative powertrain technologies like hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and all-electric cars. French researchers have found that a “misinformed craze” surrounding hybrids has delayed other technologies and is drawing a majority of research dollars.
Petrol-electric hybrids are not environmentally sustainable because they still rely on fossil fuels, however carmakers are still pouring millions of dollars into improving the technology instead of focusing on better alternatives. There’s also the fact that many modern diesel vehicles and even some petrol compact cars achieve much better mileage figures than hybrid halo cars like the Prius.
Consumers are convinced that hybrids are the solution, researchers Jean-Jacques Chanaron and Julius Teske claim in their paper Hybrid Vehicles: A Temporary Step.”There is a general convergence of strategies toward promoting hybrid vehicles as the mid-term solution to very low-emissions and high-mileage vehicles,” the researchers say. “But a convergence is based more on customer perception triggered by very clever marketing and communications campaigns than on pure rational scientific arguments and may result in the need for any manufacturer operating in the U.S. to have a hybrid electric vehicle in its model range in order to survive.”
Fortunately, there are carmakers out there pushing for alternatives. We’ve already seen Tesla’s all-electric roadster and next month Pininfarina will unveil a 700hp fuel-cell concept so there is some light at the end of the tunnel.
To most, hybrid vehicles like the Prius are a step in the right direction towards a future of ‘greener’ motoring but a new study has found that such cars are actually holding back other alternative powertrain technologies like hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and all-electric cars. French researchers have found that a “misinformed craze” surrounding hybrids has delayed other technologies and is drawing a majority of research dollars.
Petrol-electric hybrids are not environmentally sustainable because they still rely on fossil fuels, however carmakers are still pouring millions of dollars into improving the technology instead of focusing on better alternatives. There’s also the fact that many modern diesel vehicles and even some petrol compact cars achieve much better mileage figures than hybrid halo cars like the Prius.
Consumers are convinced that hybrids are the solution, researchers Jean-Jacques Chanaron and Julius Teske claim in their paper Hybrid Vehicles: A Temporary Step.”There is a general convergence of strategies toward promoting hybrid vehicles as the mid-term solution to very low-emissions and high-mileage vehicles,” the researchers say. “But a convergence is based more on customer perception triggered by very clever marketing and communications campaigns than on pure rational scientific arguments and may result in the need for any manufacturer operating in the U.S. to have a hybrid electric vehicle in its model range in order to survive.”
Fortunately, there are carmakers out there pushing for alternatives. We’ve already seen Tesla’s all-electric roadster and next month Pininfarina will unveil a 700hp fuel-cell concept so there is some light at the end of the tunnel.
02-12-2008, 08:49 AM
#939
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by TSX69
Petrol-electric hybrids are not environmentally sustainable because they still rely on fossil fuels, however carmakers are still pouring millions of dollars into improving the technology instead of focusing on better alternatives. There’s also the fact that many modern diesel vehicles and even some petrol compact cars achieve much better mileage figures than hybrid halo cars like the Prius.
Consumers are convinced that hybrids are the solution, researchers Jean-Jacques Chanaron and Julius Teske claim in their paper Hybrid Vehicles: A Temporary Step.”There is a general convergence of strategies toward promoting hybrid vehicles as the mid-term solution to very low-emissions and high-mileage vehicles,” the researchers say. “But a convergence is based more on customer perception triggered by very clever marketing and communications campaigns than on pure rational scientific arguments and may result in the need for any manufacturer operating in the U.S. to have a hybrid electric vehicle in its model range in order to survive.”
As far as diesel goes, cars that run on such may or may not have similar fuel efficiency (to hybrids) but, it also costs about $.30/gal over premium unleaded here in NJ.
But IMHO, the fuel cell technology looks very promising. I am eager to see Honda's next step beyond the Clarity experiment in So Cal.
02-18-2008, 12:27 PM
#941
Some dude
Acura: Strategy news **Rumors and Speculation on Coupe (page 23)**
Source:eGMCartech
We’re not at all impressed with the new Acura RL or the new TSX, but it seems like Acura is having dreams of a “huge shift” next year that will move the brand closer to tier 1 luxury brands such as BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Lexus.
In a 45 minute meeting with dealers Acura said that the brand will be adding one new vehicle a year (including changes to existing models).
“In the next year there will be a huge shift toward tier 1, and the dealer body is excited about that shift,” said Valerie Voyles, CEO of the Ed Voyles Automotive Group in metro Atlanta.
“We’re not up there with Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz, but a big shift is coming,” Voyles said. “You’ll see more separation of the brands (Acura and Honda), with more Acura-only product.”
Acura dealers will learn more about future product details at the dealership meeting in New Orleans in April.
Well we hope we’ll see more from Acura than just more overpriced Hondas.
We’re not at all impressed with the new Acura RL or the new TSX, but it seems like Acura is having dreams of a “huge shift” next year that will move the brand closer to tier 1 luxury brands such as BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Lexus.
In a 45 minute meeting with dealers Acura said that the brand will be adding one new vehicle a year (including changes to existing models).
“In the next year there will be a huge shift toward tier 1, and the dealer body is excited about that shift,” said Valerie Voyles, CEO of the Ed Voyles Automotive Group in metro Atlanta.
“We’re not up there with Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz, but a big shift is coming,” Voyles said. “You’ll see more separation of the brands (Acura and Honda), with more Acura-only product.”
Acura dealers will learn more about future product details at the dealership meeting in New Orleans in April.
Well we hope we’ll see more from Acura than just more overpriced Hondas.
02-18-2008, 12:44 PM
#944
Some dude
1.No coupe.
2.No convertible.
3.No real flagship sedan.
4.No real sports model.
5.No engine options AT ALL.
A long way to go to really advance.
2.No convertible.
3.No real flagship sedan.
4.No real sports model.
5.No engine options AT ALL.
A long way to go to really advance.
02-18-2008, 01:06 PM
#946
Senior Moderator
It's just a re-hash of the "Bentley and Maybach" bullshit...
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=bentley
It's more lip service for the dealers...
I've started to believe that Dick Colliver is full of shit,... and at 68 (or however old he is) he should retire... If he can't convince the corporate office that Acura needs to step up it's game, then they need someone at the top who can convince corporate otherwise...
It's the same old song and dance... and most of us will be driving BMW's, Infiniti's, Lexus's or (oh my gosh) RWD Hyundai's before we see anything of any substance from acura...
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=bentley
Originally Posted by chill_dog
Wasn't this supposed to be occuring with the new TSX, TL, and overhauled RL?
It's more lip service for the dealers... I've started to believe that Dick Colliver is full of shit,... and at 68 (or however old he is) he should retire... If he can't convince the corporate office that Acura needs to step up it's game, then they need someone at the top who can convince corporate otherwise...
It's the same old song and dance... and most of us will be driving BMW's, Infiniti's, Lexus's or (oh my gosh) RWD Hyundai's before we see anything of any substance from acura...
02-18-2008, 01:15 PM
#948
Senior Moderator
Here's another thread with "rumors" about the same thing:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=sub-nsx
Acura needs to shit or get off the pot already
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=sub-nsx
Acura needs to shit or get off the pot already
02-18-2008, 01:22 PM
#949
Safety Car
5 Years
Originally Posted by chill_dog
Wasn't this supposed to be occuring with the new TSX, TL, and overhauled RL?
I do expect to see something grand in 2014, however. Acura knows what it needs to do; the problem seems to be in whether or not they feel like doing it ... not if they can do it.
02-18-2008, 02:11 PM
#951
Oderint dum metuant.
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GM - What's that old saying about Christmas coming? Quite a few Christmas' have come and gone...
TSX69 - Oh, I agree that they are referring to the next round of new models; however, they were claiming this years ago, long before this upcoming round of new models. So, if what they say is truly the case, that they are going to step up to tier 1, then the 09-13 models are just some thrown-together BS to fill the gap until 2014.
TSX69 - Oh, I agree that they are referring to the next round of new models; however, they were claiming this years ago, long before this upcoming round of new models. So, if what they say is truly the case, that they are going to step up to tier 1, then the 09-13 models are just some thrown-together BS to fill the gap until 2014.
02-18-2008, 02:48 PM
#952
Team Owner
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Already moved on, sorry Acura. You were too late to the game. As for gaining newer customers, you're gonna be playing catch up when at one point you were one of the leaders.
02-18-2008, 02:50 PM
#953
Drifting
They are just so full of it... I mean, all this talk about being with Bentley and Maybach, and then this.... please, action speaks louder than words. You had a huge chance to re-design the TSX to be a different model from the Euro-Accord and then all we got is yet another Euro-Accord. In fact, it's closer to the Euro-Accord than the current generation TSX! LOL! So much so for being a different tier-1 brand.
YAWN....
YAWN....
02-18-2008, 03:03 PM
#954
6G TLX-S
First shot - the TSX. It is identical to the European Accord sans the "Acura signature" grill. It will take 5 years for the next brand new (full-model-change) TSX to come out. Now talk about Acura-only vehicles. We won't be able to see the full effect for a long, long time.
02-18-2008, 03:15 PM
#955
The sizzle in the Steak
02-18-2008, 04:03 PM
#956
has been here awhile
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Too little, too late
With the intro of the revamped RL, I have lost all hope in this brand. They build good cars, I just don't think they'll ever have what it takes to be a true aspirational brand. They've blown it one too many times, and have arrogantly touted their "no V8, no RWD" philosophy to a consumer who won't have anything of it.
Acura, get a freakin clue.
Acura, get a freakin clue.
02-18-2008, 04:16 PM
#957
I feel the need...
Surely, I'm not defending Honda's choices and I agree with pretty much all the criticism stated above, but we need to put everything in context.
Car enthusiasts are in the minority. Based on Honda's sales trends, they probably feel like they are making the correct choices in their line-up.
Car enthusiasts are in the minority. Based on Honda's sales trends, they probably feel like they are making the correct choices in their line-up.
02-18-2008, 05:33 PM
#959
The sizzle in the Steak
Originally Posted by Fibonacci
Surely, I'm not defending Honda's choices and I agree with pretty much all the criticism stated above, but we need to put everything in context.
Car enthusiasts are in the minority. Based on Honda's sales trends, they probably feel like they are making the correct choices in their line-up.
Car enthusiasts are in the minority. Based on Honda's sales trends, they probably feel like they are making the correct choices in their line-up.
Ford and Chrysler and even GM thought they were making correct choices too.
02-18-2008, 06:23 PM
#960
Suzuka Master
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Originally Posted by Sly Raskal
Already moved on, sorry Acura. You were too late to the game. As for gaining newer customers, you're gonna be playing catch up when at one point you were one of the leaders.
What the hell are you talking about?!? they haven't even started playing yet...they're still just "talking" about it!