F23A4

Admittedly with the exception of maybe the 6G coupe, the styling on Honda Accords after the 5G has been mediocre at best. However, that has not seem to hurt sales in the least....and volume is the name of the game in the Accord's segment. And I do not think the 8G will be any less of a sales success....particularly as prices have not increased by much (exc. discounts) and it does appear to be a more substantial car than the current model (of which I am a satisfied owner).

..and I do recall Honda's resistance to equipping the Accord with the V6 motor (notably, a recycled C27A from the 1G Legend). Reference for those who may not know: Honda designed the 5G solely for use with the F22B motor but the market demand for a V6 was too strong to ignore....resulting in Honda having the stretch the 5G's front end by 3" to accomodate the C27A motor. Though the 5G debuted for the 1994 model year, the V6 model debuted in the 1995 modely year. (Honda was similarly resistant to SUVs as well, badging the Isuzu built Passport and SLX as Honda/Acura until they could catch up with the Pilot and MDX...which were fairly successful if not impressive first attempts.)

Putting aside ultraluxury, if Honda comes to the premium game I think they will compete and compare VERY well.

theslik1

I have no doubt the new Accord will sell, but damn is it ever ugly. I'm glad you mentioned their resistance to SUV's. It seems that Honda has a rich history of resistance to market trends, which is ironic given that they tend to compete very well once they "give in". I just wish Acura would hurry up and give in on RWD platforms and V8 engines.

Edward'TLS

For the A4, only the 2L turbo I-4 has a choice of FWD or Quattro AWD. The torquey 3.2L V6 is only available with Quattro AWD, because all car manufacturers (Honda included) know it's very difficult to tune a high hp, high torque FWD car for good handling dynamics.

theslik1

I don't think so. I test drove an IS350 recently and came away decidedly unimpressed. Lexus makes a great appliance, however.

sonnyboyacura

Have you owned one with an AT?


Joking...but not entirely.

unlemming

I never thought the TSX had sales problems...

If the MDX wasn't impressive for you when it came out, I don't think you should even be looking in the <60k market.

And to further rile the thread, I think the 8G looks better than the 6G and I loved the 6G. My 6G sedan was my only new car purchase, in fact.

Belzebutt

It's not competing against an E46 3-series though. And personally, if I didn't need a family car I'd be all over the 135, so I don't have any bias against it, I just don't think it's a car that Acura needs to worry about. What they SHOULD worry about competing against is the 3-series and 5-series.

theslik1

I was strictly comparing size, and making the point that the 1-series will not be a tiny car. You are correct that *maybe* Acura doesn't need to worry about the 128/135, but given the repeated incoherence of their public statements you have to wonder about their overall corporate focus and level of aggression. Who exactly are they worried about? They're not in a position to blithely dismiss potential competition. It seems that they can learn a few things from Hyundai in this regard.

The bottom line (for me) is that Acura currently offers nothing to move up to...or down to, a la 1-series...from the TL and that's why they're losing me as a repeat customer.

Edward'TLS

In Canada, there's this CSX Type-S to take care of the 1-series. So the TL can remain focus on the 3-series.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Shouldn't the TL be in competition with the 5 series and the TSX be in competition with the 3 series.

That's what I always assumed their lineup competed with.

Doesn't make sense that the larger TL is pitted against the smaller 3 series even though that does happen.

To have two models from one manufacturer go up against one model of another seems to me to be poor product design/marketing.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

The TL and TSX compete against the two version of the 3-series. Not the best idea, but the amount of platform sharing between the two cars means that from a cost sharing standpoint, the difference is nominal.

The RL is the car that is currently set to compete again the 5-series.

And the 3-series always competes against larger cars such as the CTS, G35, etc. In fact, even the TSX is larger than the 3-series in a lot of interior volume dimensions.

JediMindTricks

for the sake of comparisons, acura is all over the place.

that's why it amazes me when a maker like lexus can make all sorts of models to compare with just about anything.

is vs. 3-series, a4, tsx, tl, g35, c-class
es vs. tl
gs vs. rl, m, 5-series, e-class,a8
ls vs. 7-series, s-class, a8
etc.

Edward'TLS

Size-wise, the TSX is in the same size class as the 3-series, and the TL the 5-series. Unfortunately, price-wise the TL is pitted directly against the more expensive but smaller 3-series and C-class, and this is exactly why car magazines and car review columns always do so. It's like when you have $35K to spend on a car, this is what you can buy on the market for around that price.

Keep in mind that a car manufacturer doesn't need to build a car for the purpose of going directly against another competitor model. So the TSX can be viewed as competing with "lower than 3-series model" or entry level 3-series model, and the TL as competing with top-of-the-line 3-series model or "between 3- & 5-series model". The TSX and the TL are two vastly different cars, the first focused on handling and the latter on power. Whereas the 3-series has a boat-load of engine choices to choose from, unlike the Acuras. Since both TSX and TL are selling well, the design/marketing execution is not considered poor at all.

GreenMonster

Found this at the end of an articial about interest rates:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070831/...dc_1&printer=1

Yumcha

And that may be around when I'll be buying a new car. AWD coupe a la 3.5L and lotsa vroom vroom please?

Moog-Type-S

Fixed

F23A4

Conceptually, I guess a Jaguar acquisition could make sense if Honda wanted to upmarket that brand to the ultraluxury level (goodbye X-type). But then again, it still would not do much for the Acura brand's current place. 'A' still needs to come before 'B'.

Edward'TLS

Jaguar is a dying species - this also applies to Jaguar Motor Co. The Jaguar factories are way too inefficient, the labour cost zooming, the products questionable, and the reliability way too low. If Honda were to bought out Jaguar, it would only drag Honda to the grave. Just see the results of Daimler taking over Chrysler. From "buying" to dumping, Daimler has lost billions of $.

F23A4

In any event, Honda has to deal with the Acura brand first.

SpicyMikey

I'd be happy if half of this were true

http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/a...future-lineup/

mltk53

oh man..if they bring back the CL~ itll be aweasome. a Huge impact on sports coupes. right now, the G35 is collecting all the marbles in that category. acura should bring it back to compete against it.

Moog-Type-S

Flying Pigs

Yumcha

Fixed.

dr mikeylu

there is some fierce competition right now w/ the G37 ..3 series coupes ...etc.. Acura better come out firing if they want to stay alive..

Moog-Type-S

According to the article, the only vehicle that will have RWD is a V8 sedan.....
Looks like the CL is headed for FWD...or at best AWD.

JediMindTricks

+1.

GreenMonster

There's been talk about a CL (sub-nsx) replacement for about as long as I can remember:

http://www.vtec.net/modelmatrix/ (scroll to the bottom of the list).

I'd love to see it happen, but Acura just takes too damn long for product development. Maybe in the future they might have something that interests me in their line up.... But when will that be, 2014 ??

SpicyMikey

It's true. Watching Acura "advance" their product line is like watching grass grow. It's painful.

LuvMyTSX

We'll see some advancement in '08, but don't really know exactly how much yet...

JediMindTricks

i'm hoping acura will have push starts by then.

Moog-Type-S

Man will be landing on Mars for the first time when the next Acura CL comes out....and it will still be FWD.

mltk53

LOL!

savage

i could see a CL replacement being a 2 door TSX with a higher output turbo engine and SH-AWD...

invisiblewar

Its worse...my parents lawn grows so fast it needs to be cut like once a week... so for speed grass> acura

mrdeeno

I thought most lawns grow that fast in spring and early summer, and only slows down where you can get away with cutting it once every 2 weeks later in summer and fall.

BTW my lawn mower is RWD with variable speed control, so I can drift around the yard.

SpicyMikey

Oh man, I got you beat. Mine is a Dixie Chopper, zero-turn-radius, AWD!!! Their tag line is "Worlds Fastest Lawn Mower......" yea, baby

http://www.dixiechopper.com/home.php#start

I'm waiting for the torque vectoring AWD system to be added in the next refresh. Then I can take turns around the house at 40mph on a slick lawn.

I just hope they don't call it "Super Handling". It will sound as stupid on a lawn mower as it does on a car.

mrdeeno

WTF? AWD? So does that mean you can mow the lawn in inclement weather?

MaximaPower

lol....news about a Acura sports coupe and u guys are talking bout lawnmowers

hahahh

GreenMonster

The NSX came out in 1992... And Acura only started developing it's replacement fairly recently (after they decided to discontinue it ??). The reason why Acura isn't doing well as a brand is that their product planning sucks. I could do better... No coupe in the lineup, but they want to be a sporty brand ??

They really need to shit or get off the pot

SpicyMikey

Yep, hard to imagine why they don't offer at least one of their sedans in coupe format. A convertable would be nice but not as critical as a two door. What do they do over there all day? Is anyone steering this ship?