richii0207

I don’t know the reason, I’m not their engineer. Why don’t you contact Acura to ask them if it bothers you so much.

fiatlux

You're the one making excuses for them, so I assumed you had something to substantiate those claims. Otherwise why bother?

richii0207

Would a Datalog satisfy you? I’ve already did most of the homework for the majority of naysayers about the Type S who constantly posted misinformation. You’re right, why bother when people are too lazy to do any research.

fiatlux

Sure, go ahead and post one up.

And to be clear, I would not be surprised at all if the car has to pull timing or do something to reduce power at lower gears. I've already made it very known that I believe the regular TLX and RDX has to do so to protect the SH-AWD diffs or clutch packs, and I've seen nothing to suggest that isn't the same problem the Type S has. But this is less of an excuse, and more of an indictment that the "performance" aspect is half-baked in this car, and not at all what Acura marketed it as.

BEAR-AvHistory

As far as I know there are no automotive engineers here so we are all coming from the same base. Be interesting to know what misinformation you have corrected.

Have at it. Thing I would like to know is about the 13% Telling me its 13% stiffer than the 4 cylinder does not tell me anything material about the car. The 4 cylinder could be a linguini so + 13% is al dente? They pass on %'s rather than hard numbers be cause % look better. 1 + 1 is 100% increase. 10 +1 is a 10% increase. That thicker damper housing gusset goes from 1mm to 2.3mm thats over a 100% thicker. Take a look at 1MM & 2MM on your ruler when you get a chance.

Question is would the engine blow through the transmission &/or the SHAWD if exposed to the massive power of the V6? There are two reasons manufacturers neuter 1st gear. Most important to them is blown drive line warranty claims that cost them money. Second is traction for performance. Don't know of any AWD that are neutered for traction. A number of RWD cars are limited. Are you sure the S is neutered rather than just slow off the line. 4200lbs is a lot of inertia to overcome. I'm looking at about 4,000lbs in my car.



richii0207 telling me its better than the TLX is not telling me anything. You are going by feel again unless feel is quantified it just an opinion. Expect some of the TLX guys think their car feels very nice & very agile. You like your car thats great but thats not really this conversation. The benchmark was not the TLX but other cars that ran LL. 298 cars listed & the Type-S is # 186. A bit off mid pack where a number of us expected it to finish.

Personally thought if anything the brakes would hurt them. In the post before LL I wondered if they would be running the Laguna Seca brakes. The only thing that really shocked me was the performance optional brakes falling apart in one day.

Tires I can understand. At BMW PDF I needed a front tire change by lunch on day 2. Drive the school cars a lot harder than I would ever drive mine but have never killed brakes on any car that fast.

Somebody can't remember who & can't be bothered to look up got all pissed off when I said the car has no business anywhere near a track. Though I would share this as it seems everybody like to put in magazine reviews about their claims.

"TLX Type S Performance Vehicle Of The Year Review: Decent on the Road, But …The vaunted Type S badge returns to a sedan that isn’t ready for it.

Past street drives had convinced us the new TLX Type S was a legitimate sport sedan that could just use a little more power. In our PVOTY testing, though, we discovered its street moves don't at all translate to near- or on-limit handling. What works at quick but reasonable speeds on a back road falls apart when you push the car hard on a track. For a company that has rebranded itself as the purveyor of "precision crafted performance," the TLX Type S isn't where it needs to be."

richii0207

1. Then we shouldn’t start making assumptions or spreading wrong information that we aren’t well-versed in. Someone said the Type S 10k more for just a heavy V6 with a “marketing” suspension. It’s actually 3k more than the higher non-S trim with nearly all the same features plus the Type S improvements. I must’ve missed all the commercials with Acura claiming the Type S to be a Ferrari since every other post is blah blah “marketing”.

2. Maybe just saying “more rigid” is too vague. It’s technical data, I enjoy it. Lots of companies do the same, like Nissan with the GTR revisions.

3. Bingo. Look at the the AP1 S2000 (RWD) or the STI (AWD). Perhaps they should just let the owners just go full-tilt off the line (RIP differential) and whatever happens, happens.

4. There’s no denying that it ran a slower time on a race track than some of its more expensive rivals. But let’s be honest, is an average person driving a luxury car going to notice that kind of difference on the street? What are we hoping to achieve by regurgitating the track performance of the car? Do people really care that their DD car needed a brake swap after a few laps?

fiatlux

You must have missed the marketing blitz that preceded the release of the car. The official press kit mentions the word "performance" no less than 22 times, including "Acura developed all aspects of the tire with Pirelli to match development targets, including performance on the racetrack". The first commercials show it bombing around a racetrack. The official launch itself was at Laguna Seca. They had the Type S as the pace car for the Pikes Peak Hill Climb. During the interviews, Ikeda kept talking about performance, performance, performance. Is it really that hard to believe that many people were expecting this car to be more performance oriented than just a warmed up regular TLX?

It's still mindboggling how a brand can claim to be a performance brand when their highest performing non-exotic gets outperformed by the competition's performance-lite models... Marketing spin is the only phrase that comes to mind. I've said it before; at this point Acura is more of a marketing company than a performance car company, which is a shame because the cars are pretty good if they would just quit over-promising and under-delivering.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Keep in mind that the TLX Type-S is indeed the highest performance vehicle in the Acura lineup, second only to the NSX supercar.

This is the first time in Acura history that a truly functional (not just with pretty exterior aero pieces and badges) sport sedan is able to run so close to its competitors' performance models, even though still fall short of out-performing them all.

But at least this is a good start because Acura is now putting more focus in vehicle performance rather than building just mediocre vehicles. Rome isn't built in a day. Mistakes (such as heavy curb weight) will be corrected, and improvements will be implemented in future model iterations. The turbo-V6 is brand new and has lots of tuning potentials. The only problem is whether these changes will be implemented fast enough, before internal combustion engines become obsolete and EV takes over the entire show.

jjsC5

While I understand your point, I don’t agree. Dealing with problems is a hassle on a motorcycle, and maybe even more so. No loaner bikes, less dealers in many cases and because until my retirement, it was something I could only do on weekends. When I have a problem with one it wasn’t like I missed a day of riding, it really means I would miss two weeks between rides best case. And typically I had to use up my Saturdays getting the bike to the dealer, and another Saturday picking it up.

Most people in the US ride purely for fun. It’s their stress relief. Dealing with problems is the last thing I want to do on something I do to relieve stress. When your Cobra decides it’s mad at you you can always take one of your BMWs to the track. Just for clarification, I’m retired now and have three bikes. But for me the need for reliability is because I put a lot of miles on all of my bikes. Even my “SuperSport” gets ridden once or twice a week and about 10,000 miles a year.

jjsC5

I agree with you. While I have not driven one yet, it is the first Acura in a few years that I would/will have on my very short list for my next vehicle. And I’m a long way from having an EV on my short list.

richii0207

It is what it is. Deal with it and move on. This isn’t your choice of vehicle if your priority is being #1 on the track. There is always someone faster than you.

Legend2TL

To put some data and context to that statement, here are the top seven TLX 2G threads as of yesterday and who are the top posters in those threads. While many of the these AZ members own 2G TLX's and contribute positive and negative, there are a few that are fairly consistently negative/toxic.
I'm embarrassed I made #4 on one thread having never even sat in a 2G TLX.

F23A4

Good data points and especially noteworthy regarding posting context. Thank you for posting.

(Sounds like you’re due to spend some time in both the 2.0T and Type S.)

While I’m still trying to figure out the ‘end game’ (assuming it goes beyond simple agitation) for the more prolific dissenters — particularly the ones who have no horse in the race — I’ll be keeping a closer eye on the direction of this thread.

pyrodan007

To me, all the Acura fanboys crying "go away haters" are being sore losers. The Type-S competed in 2 versions of the lighting laps and proved to be a very poor competitor. Not just for speed, but also for brakes. It costs less for a reason, including less engineering efforts. All this talk about reliability, I have a feeling brakes will not be on the list (especially for the cost to own part).

If people can't contribute in a thread made for RACING, then what's the point of this forum existing. It's about the Type-S after all, where looks and fake RWD dimensions mean nothing once on the track.

richii0207

Acura fanboys? I’m sorry, is this a Toyota forum? It’s the same 3 people saying the same thing over and over hoping to achieve something. It’s taking repetition to another level.

You don’t like the car? Then don’t buy it and stop spamming the same message over and over. What are you looking to accomplish by wasting your time on a forum in which you have nothing to contribute other than echoing the same message over and over. The negativity on these boards are on another level and you are directly contributing to it. It’s like a bunch of kids looking to say every little negative thing possible, even if you have to say the same thing over and over. Your last sentence proves my point.

I gotta go, I’m late to my weekly “Acura fanboy” meeting.

BEAR-AvHistory

1A. Not me. I did say it lost some features like a HUD that a Sports Sedan should not have lost.
1B Generally Jon Boy has been full of shit in his personal promotion of the car & his approval of the bogus marketing program. C&D LL & MT-PVOTY just highlighted how over the top it all was. Type S fans jumped to its defense some of us who have cars Jon was marketing against pushed back & responded to the claims, that seems to have upset the post counter.

What fiatlux said succinctly covers what Jon Boy's intention was in positioning the cars image in the publics eye:

"You must have missed the marketing blitz that preceded the release of the car. The official press kit mentions the word "performance" no less than 22 times, including "Acura developed all aspects of the tire with Pirelli to match development targets, including performance on the racetrack". The first commercials show it bombing around a racetrack. The official launch itself was at Laguna Seca. They had the Type S as the pace car for the Pikes Peak Hill Climb. During the interviews, Ikeda kept talking about performance, performance, performance. Is it really that hard to believe that many people were expecting this car to be more performance oriented than just a warmed up regular TLX?"

When the rubber met the track the car was found to be wanting. That does not make it a bad street car but I would defiantly look into Hawk or similar brake pads.

2. Something I don't like no matter who does it.

3. No what they should do regardless of brand is build a drive train that will support the engine they put in the car. That costs money but so be it, raise the price or absorb the cost.

4. Might sound counter intuitive to some but in most cases a non race car that does better on the track than another car will be an easier car to drive on the street. Yeah I would not be happy if my DD with optional performance brakes blew them up in one day at the track. 297 cars did not shed their brakes in a day.

LL is supposed to be tuff on the cars that's exactly why they run the Grand north Course configuration at VIR. What they said they are trying to do is shake out all the hidden things that don't show up in a typical road test. Read MT comments going from a typical "road test" to the PVOTY test for this car.

Think about what LL suggests the overall quality of the standard brakes are. Rolling down the expressway at 85/90MPH I don't want any doubts as to how my steering or brakes are going to react in a sudden maneuver. Also throw tires into that mix. I come from the you can never have too much braking capacity group.

EDIT: If Acura & Jon did not want these comparisons to be made he should have never placed the car in the hands of C&D for LL. Remember its not just the car Acura had their techs up the wazoo for the care & feeding of the car. Not a cheap few days at the track.

richii0207

And the people upset with a hissy fit about the marketing feels like it’s justifiable to hijack and spam nearly every TLX thread to complain about every little thing? It’s simple, move on. Nobody is forcing anyone buy a product against their will. I’ve never seen so many people with a vendetta again a specific vehicle.

BEAR-AvHistory

Jon lied in your face for a few years about what the car is & you are unhappy with me?



No, but you are not the only one reading the posts. Lots of lurkers looking for info on a potential spend of $54,000. Do they deserve both sides of the story?

What factual items would you like to say about the LL & PVOTY events to straighten us all out?

richii0207

Jon lied in your face for a few years about what the car is & you are unhappy with us?

BTW on a real note. What did he LIE about?

Honda430

Bear, we understand somewhat the position you're taking; however, once you've made your point continuing to blugeon everyone on the board over an over again with it is quite simply bad manners. We get it. Now can you simply move on?

richii0207

It appears that after potential buyers read all the reviews online about the car from the same place he did, they will go on these forums and read about his personal experience with…oh wait, he’s never driven one. *facepalm*

Edward'TLS

Let's make it clear. The Acura Type-S trim is simply a high performance version of its base vehicle models, and is never intended to be a track ready vehicle. Only the Honda/Acura Type-R trim is the track ready version that is designed for all out race performance.

Vehicle Model : Track Ready ?
Integra Type-R : Yes
Civic Type-R : Yes
NSX Type-R : Yes

RSX Type-S : No
TL Type-S : No
CSX Type-S : No
NSX Type-S : No
TLX Type-S : No
MDX Type-S : No

On a race track, the TLX Type-S is heavy, slow, and has inadequate brakes than its competitors. These points have been spelled out very clear in this thread already. There is no need to going over them again and again just to keep this "made for RACING" thread alive.

Despite its shortcomings, the TLX Type-S has performed its job very well as a Type-S trim model, achieving a 3:06.7 lap time, when considering it being just the higher performance version of the base TLX model.

Faking an European RWD look doesn't mean the car has to beat every other cars on the race track. The key is to make the TLX look attractive. Audi has also been designing its cars with the same fake RWD dimensions for years, when its products are always based on FWD platforms.

And besides, the TLX Type-S is not "made for RACING", the Type-R model trims are.

pyrodan007

To me, the Type-S is the equivalent of a Buick Regal GS on the track, but a lot of comments here seem to solidify Acura's marketing position of it being a solid equivalent to the German's light sports version. It's not, no matter how far down the rabbit hole some members here are going that it's not meant for light "racing", even though the German's light versions can do so without much issues.

BEAR-AvHistory

Surprised this was not referred to in the come backs

"Acura developed all aspects of the tire with Pirelli to match development targets, including performance on the racetrack". Development targets included racetrack performance, Acura said it not me. That is unless you think the Pirelli's are going to roll down the track in formation all by themselves.

Then the guys keep telling me its not meant to on a racetrack. So whom an I to believe a bunch of non engineers at Acurazine explaining why LL & PVOTY turned out like it did or the Acura engineers who developed the car with racetrack performance targets?.

Y'all are pissed at me when I said this car has no business of a racetrack then you say its not a car for a racetrack.

Can you see why its so hard to clear the picture of what this car is? Manufacturer says its designed for the performance on the track, owners say its not designed for the track, haters say it belongs no where near a track, C&D MT track tests agree with the "haters", then the fans are pissed at the "haters" for saying it did not perform very well.

richii0207

Who’s pissed? I’d say the person who rants every post he “contributes” to this enthusiast site in the most pessimistic way. Nobody seems to care but you same 2-3 whiney people…and y’all don’t even have the cars. Do you people complain about the same thing over and over when the issue is already passed for other things too? All you’ve proven is that you can read a car review and ****marketing****, the favorite word beaten to death.

pyrodan007

That's odd, Acura fans love to tap the German reliability nail when proving something. Based on data that's 10 years old from friend of friends and not owning a recent one.

Now that we have official lap data, why all the comments? I thought it wasn't a surprise yet lots of excuses.

djhtsx

iTrader: (2)

Can we lock this thread already????

richii0207

And yet, here you are complaining and ranting on an Acura forum. I guess your German forums are less fun :-)

sombasol

The car is not as fast as the almost $10,000 more expensive m340i. No one has said it was on this thread. Its at another level, and is priced accordingly. That is the only “germans light version” that has been run on the lightning lap. Neither the c43 nor the S4 have been there so we have no idea how they would perform. Thats purely an opinion on your part to say they would do so “without much issues”. We have no idea. A safe bet would be that the c43 would be a bit quicker and the S4 would be close to the same as the type S, again the c43 being more expensive and the s4 being closer in price. The type S did run basically the same as the genesis and the ct4v, 2 cars that are the same price as it when specd with awd. So… how did it perform worse then it should have? It would be nice if the brakes would have held up better, but then again the is500 ($8000 more) lost it’s brakes AND it’s transmission while finishing 1.8 second faster.
None of these cars are perfect, you pay more to go faster, the other variables are up to the person spending the money.

Edward'TLS

So "Acura developed all aspects of the tire with Pirelli to match development targets, including performance on the racetrack". So "Acura engineers who developed the car with racetrack performance targets."

What is performance on the racetrack ? What are the racetrack performance targets ? The TLX Type-S achieves a 3:06.7 lap time as performance on the racetrack, but its brakes are not holding up well. A 3:06.7 lap time is very impressive for an Acura sedan, other than the NSX. But a 3:06.7 lap time is obviously not too impressive for a BMW lover who keeps imagining that Acura racetrack performance targets are meant to out perform all its competitor cars on the race track.

It is true that Acura marketing have exaggerated the Type-S's track potential. Remember the commercial "Red Bull gives you wings". Marketing always exaggerate facts to promote its products. A real world drink test will reveal the real McCoy. It is naive to blindly believe marketing materials entirely words for words. The real world lap test shows that the Type-S isn't track ready, because it brakes are wearing out fast. I also said that the Type-R was the model trim designed to be track ready. It is you who is pissed because you can't take this reasoning. You have to strike the Type-S dead before you will let up.

Back in the first page when you asked the question "why guys will spend a significant premium for the Type-S over the top end 4 cylinder ?" I answered your question with mulitple facts, but you just had to pick on my facts line by line as if you knew more about my Type-S than I do.

What is all this ? Why ?

Why can't we all post peacefully in an Acura forum ? You love your BMW's. This is perfectly fine for us. We don't pick on you because of your vehicle choice. We don't need you to justify your purchase choice. You tell us your BMW stories. We love to hear because we can learn from other auto makes. So please respect our vehicle choices as well.

If your end goal is to make us all, 250 (2021MY) Canadian TLX-S and 2,000 (2021MY) US TLX-S owners and counting, to regret our vehicle choice because the Type-S is heavy, isn't sub-5sec in 0-60, has missing features, has inadequate brakes for tracks, and doesn't outpeform its competitors, you are looking for a big disappointment; because it will never happen no matter how hard you try. It seems that none of the above is big enough an issue to dampen our enthusiatism in buying and keeping our TLX Type-S. It is you who get pissed because your ill intention doesn't succeed.

No one car is perfect. It depends on how one set his/her priorities and requirements. We love our Type-S because it is a fun car to drive, just like the way you love your BMW's.

jjsC5

Ouch! That’s really a low blow 😉

F23A4

I'll end this one on Edward's well stated post.