Tesla1856

That's silly. Was it maybe the only one they had and it was on the show-room floor?

Our Acura dealer let us take-out (alone, for an hour or so) a 2021 TLX Tech and another time ... the 2021 TLX Advance. The TLX Type-S wasn't released yet when we were shopping.

At our Audi dealer, they let you drive whatever car you want. RS5, R8, whatever. However, if it is on show-room floor they prefer you make an appointment thru your salesman. Or, if it's in back (huge, multi-level parking-garage) ... they like to wash it for you first. Of course, you only do that if said car is on your "short list" (no use wasting everyones time).

Really just posting for others to read as I'm sure your BMW dealer gives customers similar treatment.

fiatlux

A lot of Acura dealerships were asshats that would not let people test drive their DEMO units. See https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...thread-994637/

Tesla1856

That's bizarre.

I would just walk-out. You can keep your little sedan.

MarcoTLX

Same, my Acura dealer let me test drive the Type-S before I put my deposit down. Even let me push it abit on the highway too! Though I technically had a “Sudo” appointment to check out the Type-S. Needless to say my dealership is pretty cool with test drives as long as you’re not a tire kicker.

richii0207

That is really unfortunate, some GMs are just arghhh and just ruin the experience that could have been provided. I walked in and was able to test drive the Type S with a simple ask and drive it out of the showroom for the test drive. No appointment or financial talk was needed.

One dealer did not give loaners while my car was being worked on but another dealer across town would. This occurred with a previous Acura and BMW. It’s not the car brand but GM and how they handle their dealerships.

F23A4

Indeed, I've seen this at a number Acura stores as well as other brands. To wit, not only would I refuse to patronize that store, I'd also refuse to patronize any other store under that same ownership. (I'd also encourage those in my 'circle' to do likewise.)

fiatlux

Problem is that Acura corporate didn't tighten the screws on dealerships who wanted to play games like this. I remember when the Hellcats and Demons came out, Dodge publicly announced that dealers who marked them up would receive fewer allocations in the future. Of course, some dealerships still marked them up because they felt the markups made up for the lower volume they'd receive, but anecdotally at least a lot of the dealers I talked to stuck with MSRP, way more than I would have expected.

Acura could have said something similar: if you don't let people test drive the DEMO cars, you don't get any more to sell. But of course, they didn't because they didn't because reasons. On the flip side, at least now I know which greedy Acura dealerships I'll never do business with, and which one I will.

F23A4

Actually, the GM of my Acura store personally indicated to me that this was a directive from Honda Corporate. Nevertheless, I don't doubt that some stores haven't played nice here; not sure if Honda followed through on that allocation warning in these instances....especially if the guilty outlets are higher volume ones.

Legend2TL

, it's the complete package and not just the drivetrain. The press kit for the Type-S gets into all the differences. Also the price tiering for the TLX from high to low is 41.6% which seems to be average for many cars in this class. The MDX is now 50% for it's price tiering spread.

https://acuranews.com/en-US/releases...pe-s-press-kit

Why some people don't understand tiering in car models is a mystery

I'm presuming most people drive cars and not spreadsheets. It's the complete package on how the car functions and performs from acceleration, handling, stopping, and overall functionality (seats, control/instrumentation layout) as well as quality of materials and assembly. I doubt the majority of buyers share exactly their values and viewpoints on everything as to why they choose even the same car. And factor in cost of ownership and how trouble-free the cars is as well.

Gotta wonder if in Ohio or California there was a TLX test mule with a K20C....


Anyway looking forward to seeing all the C&D numbers for the various cars at VIR in a few days

BEAR-AvHistory

Don't have to drive it to know its slower than what I would buy & would not stay with what I would buy over a challenging road. Don't have to drive it to know its been over hyped by Acura. The car would need to drive better than the TLX AWD I drove by an order of magnitude for me to say WOW this is a hot car. That WOW would be against a AWD TLX not other cars in the arena.

As it stands its numbers are actually less than a car I had 11 years ago. Why would I be impressed with it from the point of view I measure it by? Be more than happy to drive an S when the dealer gets his head out of his ass. Maybe I would prefer it over the AWD TLX maybe not. As of right now I think the top end AWD TLX is a better deal. I would expect it to be lighter on its feet & more nimble than the six due to weight on the front end alone. You want an agile car the weight should be toward the rear not the front. Would have liked BMW to go more rear weight bias than the near 50/50 is uses now. My front engine homebuilt runs about 53% on the rear wheels.

There is no vendetta I have never said the car sucks, is a piece of shit. Find the post where I did. I have always said its a nice car that has not met its expectations. I has a 3 liter 6 DOHC Turbo 355BHP just like every other car. But it runs like a couple of 4 cylinder cars with 255BHP & 280BHP. I also don't think today its competitive sports sedan. Its a good family car, nothing wrong with that. A lot of guys who one day say its not a race car & speed does not matter the next day are bitching because I said its a slow car is comparable to at least 2 four cylinder 2.0T cars from competitive makes. That's what is not something made up like a TLX Type-S commercial.

BEAR-AvHistory

Just wanted to know as many guys have come from small Honda's & similar level cars. They have posted here how fast the Type-S is & its a beast. Fast & beastly in many cases is what you have experienced in the past.

With the type S its the degree as to how material peripheral parts are to the cars performance. Like the 10 speed transmissions performance at WOT or the lack of a HUD.

F23A4

Playing devil's advocate, if they could have kept the weight at the 3,700lb mark with SH-AWD, a K20C1 w/6MT could have made for an interesting offering....granted still well short of the numbers produced by all of its direct competition.

BEAR-AvHistory

Was the gold demo...to me a demo is to be driven. I had the Z4 for a weekend before I bought it.

Tesla1856

Sure.

However, if a car doesn't pass the "spreadsheet test" , it doesn't make my Short-List (so not even seriously considered any more). And the spreadsheet items largely affect the Functions and Performance.

And I understand emotional buying but these are cars, not TVs.

richii0207

How do you pass a spreadsheet and what would it contain?

Surely there are other cars with better numbers on your spreadsheet than the one in your avatar, but why that car?

Different strokes for different strokes. No need to bash a product that you don’t like.

Tesla1856

1. It contains all features and options.

2a. No. My short-list was TLX-2.0T, Audi A4, and Audi A5. Corvette just wasn't practical as a daily-driver so it fell-off the list.
2b. Because it was in my price-range (notice we own 2 nice vehicle at once) and because it's awesome.

3. What did I bash ?

richii0207

That last part wasn’t directed to you. I should’ve put that statement above the quote. It just seems like the norm on these boards to flame products that you don’t like. It’s akin to the typical iOS vs Android fanboyism and preference.

The point I am trying to make is that people are thinking that everyone has the same tastes and needs as them. Some drive a minivan, others ride a motorcycle. I personally would never own another German-made car as my previously owned German cars were money pits after warranty, this includes friends and family vehicles too. But that shows difference in perspective and preference.

Edward'TLS

Yes, I use the TLX 4 cylinder performance VS the TLX performance as a demonstration of speed. The 2G V6 TLX-S is almost a full second faster in 0-60 than the 2G 4-cylinder A-spec. Numbers obtained from MotorTrend :

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...t-test-review/

Need I say more ?

BEAR-AvHistory

Yes C&D Lightning Laps will settle the handling. MT Figure 8 is interesting but 24th out of 27 sandwiched between a Dodge Challenger Hellcat Red Eye & a Golf-R on a tight TH road course also says something. Like the TV show said "The truth is out there".

But slower than the 4.6sec & 13.3@104MPH C&D got from the Alfa 280BHP 4 cylinder. Just matters which 4 you pick

jwtarbaj

Wait so much grippier Summer tires vs absolutely mediocre at best all seasons on the A-Spec only got 4 feet shorter than said A spec. Imagine how much shorter the ASpec could be with summer rubber.

Check out Car and Driver test. Stretched out to 100mph-0

Type-S w Summers: 359 ft

A-Spec w Primacy AS: 362 ft

Those Brembos don't seem to be helping all that much.....

fiatlux

They'll help with reducing fade, but since apparently this isn't a track car, what's the point?

BEAR-AvHistory

Its more than just the Brembos am surprised the summer tire did not do better than the result. Wonder if the tire is hurting the acceleration or there is not enough tire for the weight in stopping. That said I find MT to be kind of sketchy with their numbers & don't use them, prefer C&D. MT has mine as the 2021 tested10th quickest to 60MPH @ 2.98. Its very quick but I don't think its sub 3 second quick.

You look at the MT exclusive figure 8 which I don't think has much meaning other than to give MT some kind of uniqueness in their testing. They seem to have major clusters of random cars in all the timings example: 24.00 - 13 cars, 24.10 - 16 cars, 24.20 - 13 cars, 24.30 - 13 cars. Seems odd that so many varied cars would have the same score. Would be better if they carried it out one more decimal place like LL.

These cars are not race cars but they are being compared on a race track. The TLX Type-S was officially introduce to the world on a race track complete with track brake pads in the Brembos with magazine writers doing laps for their reviews. The writers race track experience with the Type-S was baked into their reviews. My belief its all well & fair that the car be judged against other cars on a race track the same way it was introduced.

Edward'TLS

Always stick with the same auto magazine testers when comparing cars, because different auto mag testers have different test methods, different test conditions, and different test environments, and as a result will give skewed numbers.

MotorTrend had tested both the 4-cylinder A-spec and the V6 Type-S. For 0-60, the A-spec was 6.1 secs, and the Type-S was 5.1 secs.

The C&D number you supplied was 5.1 sec for the 4-cylinder A-spec. Since C&D testers were able to squeeze a 5.1 sec for the MotorTrend 6.1-sec 4-cylinder A-spec, don't be surprised if C&D is able to squeeze a 4.1 sec for the MotorTrend 5.1-sec V6 Type-S when they manage to test one.

Edward'TLS

Please remember that the Brembo equipped V6 Type-S is about 200 lbs heavier than the 4-cylinder A-spec. Heavier cars require longer stopping distance than lighter cars.

Therefore, even if the heavier Type-S has the same 100-0 stopping distance as the lighter A-spec, the Brembos are considered to be doing its job well.

fiatlux

What? C&D already tested the two cars. 5.9 for the regular TLX and 4.9 for the Type S. What is this 5.1s for the A-Spec that you speak of? That would be a pipe dream.

BEAR-AvHistory

C&D Typically gets the most out of the cars but not always. I like their consistency test to test & the deep historical base available. They got AFAIK the best 0-60 @ 4.9 for the Type-S so all is good with them.

You have a slight misunderstanding of what I said. I was comparing the S to competitive 4 cylinder cars not the TLX 4 cylinder that is slower than competitive cars. I was suggesting the TLX 4 cylinder was so slow compared to the other players 4's it had a lot of room, about 1.5 seconds, for improvement.

I said a 4 cylinder 2.0 Turbo in a 3 (mistake was a 4 way test) way test not a TLX 4 cylinder in a 3 way test. FWIW the quickest 4 cylinder in the test was an Alfa.

What I did not add as it pisses some of you off was the numbers belong to a 2019 BMW 330. Exactly what I did say was:

"This is a current 4 cylinder car tested in 2019/2020 by C&D in a 3 was comparo. It just suggests the TLX 4 cylinder has room for improvement. BTW this list was the second quickest 4 cylinder the quickest did 0-60 in 4.6 & 13.3 @ 104mph"

Believe this is why the TH guys said they would buy the 330 before the S again just a matter of their opinion.

About this post, I was more than happy until your MT post to leave track performance go after my last one till the LL results are in otherwise we are .

Edward'TLS

This C&D 5.1s TLX A-spec number was provided by BEAR-AvHistory.

I already told him that MotorTrend published 5.1s for the Type-S and 6.1s for the A-spec.

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...t-test-review/

Edward'TLS

You too have a slight misunderstanding of what I said. I said the V6 Type-S is almost 1 sec faster in 0-60 than the 4-cylinder A-spec. This is one of the many attractive reasons why TLX buyers choose the more expensive Type-S rather than the top-line 4-cylinder A-spec. The Type-S is a faster car. Speed is important, not speed is not the most important to decide buying the Type-S or not.

You have a question : "Still having a hard time understanding why guys will spend a significant premium for the Type-S over the top end 4 cylinder TXL if "speed isn't important". I answer your question.

This is not the first time you asked this same question. I want to answer it one final time, so you can put it to rest once and for all.

BEAR-AvHistory

I just don't see it. Above all things Acura is supposed to be a value buy. What specifically does the S offer over the 4 cylinder outside of a 1 second time reduction? AFAIK it does not even offer all the features of the 4 cylinder car.

You go in todays mid level market from a slow 4 cylinder 0-60 to a slow 6 cylinder 0-60 compared to cars you Acura says are competitors. The customer base says & don't care about speed. So what else is there for people who have no interest in speed to pay a premium of about $5,400 adding on those features you don't get + whatever ADM the dealer can squeeze out of you. Personally if I was a current Acura buyer & would do what I did the last time I bought one & say screw the S will buy the base 6MT.

Think we will just have to agree to disagree on this point. Unless something new happens expect the next long term debate will be LL for better or worse.

BEAR-AvHistory

Don't really think that will happen. No slight understanding just do not think the spread between the Base & S is relevant. Why would I pay $5400 just to have the quickest TLX? Spending the money to match the other 6 cylinder cars I could easily understand. Spending $5400 to match the other cars 4 cylinders I can't understand. Would save the money as I would prefer to spend the money to be as quick as the cars that always get mentioned as quick in the class

Above all things Acura is supposed to be a value buy. What specifically does the S offer over the 4 cylinder outside of a 1 second time reduction? AFAIK it does not even offer all the features of the 4 cylinder car.

So what else is there for people who have no interest in speed to pay a premium of about $5,400+ adding on the value of those features you don't get + whatever ADM the dealer can squeeze out of you. Personally if I was a current Acura buyer & would do what I did the last time I bought one & say screw the S 6MT will just buy the base 6MT.

Think we will just have to agree to disagree on this point. Unless something new happens expect the next long term debate will be LL for better or worse. Really hope for the guys spending the money the car shows well. Have no M340 in the game.

richii0207

Here are some:
1) Fully loaded trim (not a base model) with all features available. Only two features it does not come with are wireless AA/CarPlay and HUD.
2) Improved braking
3) Chassis rigidity
4) Improved suspension
5) Aesthetic changes

This is akin to someone asking “A Civic Type R is just a 306hp Civic, why pay 10K more for 100 hp over an Si?”
Not to be rude but if you have to ask these kind of myopic questions, you should really research more into products.

Edward'TLS

I hate repeating myself. But just so for you to stop beating the dead horse again and again, let me sum up my answers to your repeating question.

Below are what the "slow" Type-S has, but even the "even-slower" top-line 4-cylinder trim doesn't :

(1) 83 additional hp and 74 additional lb-ft torque over a wider rpm range.
(2) sport programmed 10AT transmission and rev-matching downshift.
(3) sport programmed SH-AWD for faster torque split transfer.
(4) sport tuned suspension.
(5) IDS Sport+ mode.
(6) Brembo big front brakes.
(7) 20" wheels and tires.
(8) killer-looking Type-S exclusive exterior appearance treatment. (one of main selling points)
(9) only 200 MY'2021 copies in Canada, and only 2,000 MY'2021 copies in the US. (another main selling point - exclusivity)
(10) definitely a value buy because one can easily spend 2x to 3x the MSRP difference and still not able to mod the top-line 4-cylinder TLX to match the factory Type-S performance.

The MSRP differences between the Type-S and the 4-cylunder Aspec is $6,150, and between the Type-S and the 4-cylinder Advance is $4,100. The Aspec is performance orientated but not well equipped, but the Advance is fully-loaded but not performance orientated. The Type-S is a almost perfect marriage of the Aspec and the Advance, bringing performance and feature-list together in a single package trim. The only missing Type-S features (compared to the non-sport-tuned Advance) are HUD, Foglights, and Surround Cameras. The Type-S is equipped with almost every features that the Aspec has.

In comparison, I'm pretty sure that there are premium-priced M340i that are sold with less features than the much cheaper 330i. Not every buyers want to arm their vehicles to the teeth with options and features. I'm also very sure that the 240 Canadian 2021 Type-S and the 2,000 US 2021 Type-S owners are very satisfy with their vehicle choice even given the 3 or so missing features that are only available on the non-sport-tuned Advance trim.

Better still if Acura could release 2 Type-S trims. One fully loaded for picky buyers like you, and one fully stripped down and race-ready with minimal weight for track use.

When you said the customer base says & don't care about speed. Yes and No. Yes in the sense that the Type-S is one full sec faster than any 4-cylinder trims. I myself is one. But no in the sense that Type-S owners are not blindly going after speed alone, because even thought there are sub-5 sec cars out there, they are happy and satisfy with their "comparatively-slower" 5 sec Type-S. 6 sec won't cut it, but when there is a choice of 5 sec Type-S, why not ? They don't care about other auto makes with offerings that have faster 0-60 times than the Type-S.

The MotorTrend editor has summed up the Type-S extremely well. The Type-S is slower to the 60mph than its competitors, but it has handling performance that can rival the best. This is what makes the Type-S so attractive to buyers who consider speed isn't the most important deciding factor in buyer the car.

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...t-test-review/

leomio2.0

That being said, all things being equal and if I was only looking at Acura, I do see the value of the Type-S. $6-7k more compared to the SH-AWD A-Spec for what you get is a pretty decent value.

richii0207

All of your responses are subjective answers to his objective facts. How are AT and suspension marketing? May as well call the new V6 marketing too while you’re at it. And I hope we’re not limited to a piggyback tune on this vehicle. I’d rather have a proper flash tune instead of altering signals to the ECU, which is not my cup of tea. I felt like throwing that out here since we’re talking about our personal opinions now. Hondata or Ktuner will be ticket to making proper and reliable power.

djhtsx

iTrader: (2)

Have you driven both cars. The type s feel is completely different compared to the aspec!

honestly, I don’t see the value in buying the s5 or c43 over this which I was considering. The price doesn’t really justify what you’re getting for the Acura for a daily. And yes I’ve driven both!

sombasol

argueing with the guys who have never even driven the car is futile. They made up their mind reading the stat sheet. It’s like trying to convince a 6 year old that lobster tastes good. they’ve already done their visual analysis and that thing is not going in their mouth.

Legend2TL

and to add that someone who thinks the suspension changes (listed below for the Type-S) are "much marketing" are just armchair critics.

F23A4

2021 Acura TLX Type S SH-AWD at Lightning Lap 2022 (caranddriver.com)

Legend2TL

^ I was just gonna post that

The Type-S did OK, hanging pretty close to the IS500 within a couple seconds. Interesting that both the IS500 and Type-S had brake fade issues.
Always amazed how well some of the SUV's perform and well as the Bentley Continental GT Speed and Porsche Panamera Turbo S beating the M5 and others.
Also amused to see the Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing beat the M5

The one factor in being hard to compare the various times over the years is the progressive improvement in tire technology. Tire engineers have achieved some amazing performance improvements that never seem to be slow down. I believe tire tech improvements have been a major factor in the LL times dropping through the years.

F23A4

Not overly surprised on the Type S results....it's a heavy beast that's relatively underpowered. But that CTR time has me floored!! ...almost a sub-3 minute time is pretty amazing; clearly the top performance dog for the Honda brand, aside from the NSX.