04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately there's enough morons out there to pay 60K for this vehicle, as there are enough morons out there to pay 60-70K for a fucking civic type-r . The other unfortunate part is, a majority of the cheerleading squad on this forum won't bother to buy the TLX or the TLX-S but will tell you how superior this car is. Doesn't seem so positive when loyal enthusiast aren't interested either.

vhtran

Welcome back to Monday!

So far, I can only count with my fingertips for the number of true fans putting in their deposits for the Type-S. Let's be honest here, it's all about $$$. Unless you are comfortably afforded the new Type-S, you will not trade in your 2.0T Accord or TLX. And if you are that financially comfortable, there are others that you can cross-shop with including used AMG, S/RS, M cars if you want more power.

In the end, most people will say my car still runs like a champ, I'll wait until I am ready for a new ride.

pyrodan007

I'm really curious, did anyone get a quote from dealers in Canada? If our inventory is even more limited, I wonder how much they'll charge for the Type-S.

BEAR-AvHistory

I asked this before & did not get an answer. Did the PMC car go with an ADM. If so how long did it last? Finally are there any unsold NEW PCM's left. I know some dealers IIRC are currently selling units in the low $40K range. Don't know if they are used or leftovers. Could give a clue as to how long a ADM might last on the TYPE-S. Shorting production will not hurt the ADM market either.

BEAR-AvHistory

$60,000 is not trivial car money for most Americans. At $60,000 out of pocket the are an awful lot of choices not just performance sedans but some nice semi-luxury cars or full low mileage CPO luxury cars. Especially if 0-60 is not your thing anymore.

Nexx

why are you so concerned about how other people spend their money?

Shadow2056

I wouldn't be paying "Market Adjustment" for the Type S. especially being a mass produced model. The Type R is something that's never been offered in the US and they're numbered units(take that how you will). So to someone that loves them, they're willing to pay mark up on a limited production model. Whereas the Type S has been in the US for a good while and this is going to be something sold regularly at the dealers. I'm not paying $10k mark up on it. But some will. It's whatever the person values. If someone values paying $10k over, that's them. If they don't that's them. Not all will be sold for that much. We don't even seriously know what the price will be. I've seen SOOOO many people talking to Acura sales people who actually have no clue on the price or even when it'll be coming in for sure and how many they'll be getting.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I could care less what people do with their money Jason. It's my opinion, but then again, you're the New car manger at Acura so someone's money is your paycheck.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

On thing when the TLX-S starts at 53K and marked up to 60k and the civic type-r starts at 38K but certain dealerships mark them up to 60-70K. I don't care how special it is, it's not worth nearly double the cost and kuddos for anyone that can justify spending that amount of $$$. I'm sure there's a few happy salesman that won't bat an eye when someone walks in and buys a vehicle they know it's marked up. What does it matter at that point right? People can spend THEIR money the way they want. Doesn't mean I won't have an opinion about it nor did I tell anyone how to spend their money. But lets keep paying the twisting game because I can play it right back.

robnalex

How people spend their money affects everyone. Some people over pay because they want what they want when they want it and they can. Others over pay because they don’t know any better.

Shadow2056

Oh no twisting game here. I was agreeing with you. Lol. Like I said, if someone wants to spend 60K on a Type R, that's on them. Lol. I wouldn't be paying a mark up on a regular trim model. That's like paying mark up on an M3. Lol. yes it does effect what others would pay.

My main thing is people need to stop listening to sales people that actually have no clue about pricing or anything about the Type S. I would suggest everyone wait until the car is actually at the dealers to see what they'll be priced at. If they have mark up or not.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I do owe you an apologize and I'm sorry for being abrasive to you. Here's something to know about me and there's plenty of members here who know me personally. Before running a construction business, I worked as an ASE master technician (12+ years) including two Acura dealerships. Do you know why I left Acura? Because I REFUSED to screw hard working people over. Being told by your service manager that we need to "PUSH" up sells and it didn't matter how. Some technicians kept dirty filters on their tool boxes in order to "up sell" filters to customers, which never came out of their vehicles. Service advisors get a commission for selling bs services, parts department get a commission for certain services sold and management concern was sell cars and get a high CSI.

My service manager (2nd Acura dealership) wanted me to CPO a loaner that was in a serious accident and was poorly put back together. I said no, I'm not doing it. He said "you have two options, do the CPO or leave" Guess what, I walked right out that door and NEVER looked back. I've been running an honest construction business for the last 10 years. I hold my customers, sub contractors and vendors to the up most respect. As construction material have gone UP in prices, I've honored contract prices to keep customers happy. I never sell my customers things they don't need. I always pay my vendors and sub contractors in full and before work is started. Even when my sub contractors ask more for their work, I pay them and take the loss before my customers do. 2020 to 2021 I've stopped my payroll over 6 months to assure subs and business expenses were paid. 6 months were I didn't pay myself to make sure I took care of everyone else 1st!

I've offered my place for members here to stay when they fell on hard times or were dealing with mother nature (ask rockstar). The thing that Jason Lee doesn't understand, is that I've been an honest, hard working person all my life. Jason can sell a vehicle to a person know that it's over MSRP, lie about some of the details and can still sleep just fine at night. Remember, I worked for Acura, I know a lot of things your average person here (even the ones that love this brand) will never know or experience. You know how many dealership employees (mostly sales) use dealership vehicles for lunch runs, personal use ect and end up damaging them? Many. Eventually someone who works hard for their money will end up buying one of these abused vehicles. Dealerships are known to be driven by greed and lies. Anything to get your hard earn dollar.

So while Lee thinks I'm telling people what to do with their money, It's far from it (ironically enough coming from a saleman..) As a business owner you understand money and expenses vs the person who doesn't run their own business. If you were to ask me if Lee were in my shoes, would be do the same, I'd tell you no.

My sincerest apologizes Shadow

Aurelius

TFL review by the former STIG , ie someone who drives/driven the best of the best, can drive and knows sports cars, loves this car, , that is pretty much all the endorsement I need!

CtK

I do not like the guys from tfl. I remember watching some of their videos and they would run 0-60 times on a road that looks like it goes up a hill and then complained the 0-60 time was too slow!!!! lol

Kense

I’ll wait for more independent reviews aside from those invited by Acura to the track. I don’t think they are allowed to give 100% their POV

jhb31

Once the smoke clears and the early buyers are flushed out there will be nobody paying over 50k for a type S. I went the road of a CPO for my S5. Still not cheap at near 45k but new the sticker was over 68k as it was fully optioned out. I got my 07 type S as a leftover at over a 6k discount from sticker just a year after it was released. Early buyers always pay a premium. Good point about a lot of choices at 50-60k particularly if you are willing to go into the CPO market. As for 0-60 if the type S can produce near S4/5 acceleration without being in a special mode that will be fine for most people who haven't owned a "fast" car. I rarely use sport mode (because it's just not needed) in the S5 and even in a normal mode it is like being shot out of a cannon if you put the pedal down halfway sub 50 mph and from a stop it's pretty crazy relative to my 2018 tlx v6 aspec. Just a super fun car to drive and even if the type-s is a tad bit slower but is as responsive outside of sport+ I think it would probably be a fun car. I look forward to actual owner reviews.

CaliAtenza

5.3-5.8 would make it slower than the old V6...uh, how does that work??

BEAR-AvHistory

Don't really think many here take Nexx AKA Jason Lee Acura car salesman seriously when getting comparisons of cars VS Acura from him. Guys sells Acura's for a living but puts his wife in an Audi. Said this "I own an Audi, BMW and an Acura now - My wife drives a Q?". Was that a Q5 or Q7 can't remember right now? Solid personal endorsement of the Acura product line from an Acura salesman.
So as Jason says don't listen to the "Euros or Haters buy Acura". Or you can just buy what he buys.

Acura TL Builder

He was trying to gaslight you, and you gave him precision crafted Inferno!

Your my kind of guy Gus!! You must have had great role models growing up to have such character instilled in you.

Nexx

If I really cared about how a vehicle affected my paycheck I would be frequenting the RDX/MDX forums . TLX Type S sales won't have any affect on paycheck my friend. I'm flattered you cared enough to look me up.

Acura TL Builder

^ Nah, he doesnt care about money. Thats why hes here, spreading the good cheer about how great the TLX is.

mec30

Just looking at the gearing, output, and weight, it will probably be very close to the S4/C43. The biggest question mark is whether the ECU has some kind of pullback at launch (to protect parts) and how fast the 10-speed can rip off shifts.

Nexx

I never said it was a great product. Once again how well the Type S sell has no affect on my paycheck. If that was my agenda, I would in the RDX and MDX forums.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

One day you will understand Jason, today is not that day.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Don't you love you? Sounds like a true salesman. Says a bunch of BS to look like a hero here but is a hypocrite anyway.. Ask Lee how he got his Infiniti and Acura. I bet working for those two companies had nothing to do with it. I still can't get past the fact he thought an ILX with a muffler delete sounded good.

Always appreciate the kind words brotha and you personally know me. It's comical that some of these guys in here knock you and BEAR about performance. Only if they knew what you two have built and done.

This guy will never get it..

Spoken like a true salesman Lee. Do you decline customers that want to purcahse RDX and MDX's? Last time I've checked, they sell well but then again you know this since you work for Acura. You're comments are pure gold, thanks for the laughs.

vhtran

LOL...Thanks for the good laugh on Tuesday morning guys! I wish there is a "laugh with" button right next to the LIKE.

Shadow2056

No need for an apology buddy. We're all human(I think). We make mistakes. I don't think I've ever really seen anything you've ever posted that I disagreed with. I think for the most part, we think alike. But it's hard to tell intentions from text. Lol. Some don't know if someone is being sarcastic or genuine. I hate that you had to run into those problems working at an Acura dealership. I know the guys here in service(I work as a sale consultant here at Honda) personally and they advise against a lot of stuff I've done. One time I had a set of wheels that were discontinued that I've wanted for a while. Though they were 5x114.3. Found out they were 5x115. But they seemed to fit right! One of the techs was like "No. I highly advise even driving around the block with those wheels on. I don't care that it's off by .7. That .7 it's off will cause a horrible vibration." Another one in parts, I go to when I'm looking for tire recommendations. He's never wrong. The last time I didn't listen to him, it cost me an extra $200. Lol! Our techs here aren't about making money. They're about doing what's right for the customer. I hang out in the shop a lot. Get to know the guys back there. Especially since a lot of them modify cars. One guy has an LS swap in an S10 that's he's been working on since beginning of last year. SOOOO clean. We're all waiting for him to do the first start up.

With me, I'm about making sure the customer gets what they're looking for. as a car enthusiast, that means even if it isn't my brand, that they're happy with their purchase. you want something that tows 7,000lbs and it's 3rd row. Do you REALLY need 7000lbs of towing capacity? You do? Then a Tahoe would be your best bet. If you never plan to tow that much, The Pilot or Passport would be better. Why? Better fuel economy, more reliability, and more standard features. the cost of a base Tahoe, you can get a Pilot Elite. you just want a Tahoe? Will do. I have a pre-owned one here. You want new? No problem. thank you for stopping by. If my product doesn't suit the customer, that's fine. I'm not going to try and push them onto it. When I don't customers love me for it.

Anyways. Long story short, you were already forgiven the moment I read the post. Lol.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Let's keep the personal stuff out of this and keep the discussion on the Type S.

loki

This is very, VERY true, across all car makers. The fundamental issue is at the root of this; the franchise system in America. United States is the only country in the world that had Congress/Parliament pass a LAW that prohibits direct sales/contact of car manufacturers with customers. This is why Tesla is being sued left and right by States. Because the car cartel lobby is so powerful, they have politicians in their pocket. The entire car industry is a dinosaur model. It needs to die. And it needs to die 20 years ago. I've owned/own 32 cars since I got my license 21 years ago. The car buying/servicing process is vomit inducing and extremely stressful. We should be allowed like the rest of the modern countries to go online, build a car we want and send it to OEM or go to their store like Tesla and pick what we want, have it delivered, end of story. It's not about money. I don't care if the cost of vehicle goes up 20% because of this. The fact I can't go to Honda dealer and simply get a straight answer on how much a car costs without having to be there 2 hours and to listen to BS sales pitches is insane. The fact that once you have a price (that's what you think) and go to F&I office where entire new hard pressure sale tactic starts is more insane. People put their guard down and think they're going to "sign the papers". Think again bub...you're about to be F2F with the most skilled salesman in the building and you're on his turf. The fact there is an entire industry of highly skilled liars who train salesman how to manipulate you is not insane...it's criminal. They have the process down to the T. They put pictures of kids, sometimes fake on their desk to induce sympathy from you. They wear you down with hunger and fatigue to have your concentration drop. They love to have partners come together so they can turn them on each other. They ask questions if they hear an accent where you're from and then say they have a guy they go drinking with that happens to be from your country. I could go on for hours. It is a very controlled environment that is meant to do one thing, and one thing only, take your money. I've had Acura dealers lie to me that the car was CPO and would hurl insults for me to refuse to sign the paperwork until I see it in the CPO system. I made them CPO it right there and then. It was a blatant lie. Also, speaking of CPO. I had an accident with my previous Accord, it was fixed half-ass by insurance and I traded it in with full disclosure. The dealership CPO'd it...It blew my mind when I saw it on their website as a CPO. It was MY car - and I know exactly what was wrong with it structurally, so did the dealer...and they still did a CPO on it. Maddening. And you mentioned service department. I love the "service advisor" title. They're nothing but glorified salesman. Their one and only goal is to SELL, SELL, SELL. Most of the time BS services. I've gotten into heated exchange for being almost called stupid for refusing trans fluid service at 20K miles. I asked them what does the owner's manual say for my car? The guy did a sarcastic smile and said if you want your trans to blow up, go right ahead. I told him well maybe you think you know better than the group of engineers who dedicated their lives to creating my car, I don't. Who should I believe? The guy in a lab coat with 5 mechanical engineering degrees or the guy smoking cigs by the oil disposal area and popping breath mints on his way back in. My personal mechanic used to work at Acura dealership and before that he fixed airplanes. He quit for the same reason you said. Exact same reason. He now owns his personal repair shop. He started out in 2010 in a messy garage sharing space with 5 shady dudes. That's all he could afford. Now he has two locations with tens of thousands of square footage and 20+ lifts and I don't even know how many employees. He tells me the same stories you told me. Also, back in 2008, my wife and I fell on hard times and we were cleaning dealerships at night with our infant son in a car seat sleeping in the service bays. They would drain oil filters and then re-install them as new on customer's cars when they did oil changes. They also had stacks of dirty filters to show it to the customer. Dealers still do this today. I don't go to dealer service unless I am literally cornered due to a recall. Even then, as for example right now. There is a recall on fuel pump for my Accord. I haven't gone in yet. I've seen stories on Accord forums where they did such a bad job, gas smell lingers in the car for months. I'm considering waiting until the new design pump is available for purchase and having my mechanic put it in. I'd rather pay for the piece of mind. When I first purchased my Accord, there was an issue with the seat track (it wobbled). I went back and I happened to be outside and I saw the tech who had my car take it on a joy ride. He couldn't resist (2.0T 6MT). When I brought it up to them, they said we do road test for every car. Well that was BS because I didn't see any other car go for a ride. They offered me two free oil changes. Right, so they can drive around in it some more? Or damage it on purpose because they got caught? Like I said...the entire car franchise industry needs to die right now and it needs a complete overhaul to do what Tesla does. Have all employees be employees of Tesla and all stores be corporate, not franchise. But that will never happen. The dealership cartel is too powerful. It's their world, we just live in it.

Midwestuser1

100% agree on the “dealership cartel” analogy. This is so true for the vast majority of dealerships aka “Stealerships”. It really is a disgrace how many are O.K. With blatantly lying to customers for “money”!!!

robnalex

I'm not disputing the reports by @04WDPSeDaN and @SRB-TL about horrific sales and services practices at Acura Dealerships, however, it's important to note that there are notable exceptions. I've enjoyed a 25+ year relationship with an Acura Dealership in Cary, NC. My preferred Service Advisor, and several others in the service department, have been there at least that long. Their Shop Foreman is a treasure of knowledge, experience, and integrity, and has been there for over 30 years. They never upsell service work. Instead, they always provide options, and on major items, they usually get me a discount.

Anyone who's bought a car or two has likely experienced the lets-make-a-deal-torture-chamber-of-horrors. We bought our RDX two years ago from this same Dealership, with a decent salesman who didn't employ any of the B.S. tactics you guys described, however, we did have to play the old back and forth to the sales manager for every proposal. Two months ago I met with the same sales rep to test drive (and ultimately purchase) our TLX. They had a sticker price of $45,900 on the car. I'd done my homework, and knew what I was willing to pay. I told him "We're not going to play lets-make-a-deal on this car. Give me your best price, and if I like it I won't shop other Dealers." He asked, "Do you have a price in mind?" I said, "I'm not giving you a number." He said OK, and came back with $39,000 - under 41K out the door. Deal. When we met with the Finance Guy, he started to pitch the snake oil add-ons. My wife looked him dead in the eye and said, "I don't want any of that." Done. Could I have gotten it for less by shopping and turning it into a project? Probably, but it was worth at least $500 to me not to have to do that. Even relatively decent sales reps are never going to say no to a higher price, but if you can find one who's above board and knows you're not f-ing around, you don't have to overpay.

My apologies for perpetuating this OT discussion, but I think it's important to point out that there are some decent Dealerships out there. We're lucky to have one here, and I feel bad for those who don't have a choice and have to deal with the a-holes. So, to make this post relevant to the thread, the future Dealer prices for the Type-S will depend in large part on how much BS buyers are willing to put up with and how much they're willing to pay.

BEAR-AvHistory

Cut the middle out to save space. Think any of us that have bought more than a few cars have run into both types. Got the Z4 from a young lady just starting out & she was great. Very low to non existent pressure. Even let me take the car home overnight so I could take a moonlight ride to convince my wife we did not need a 4 seat car. Hope she can stay that way.

Service always makes me nervous. Its very random even in the same shop. Most guys are parts changers today with very little to no diagnostic capability. They rely very heavily on the computer readout. Never had much problem with service writers upselling me because I tend to know more than they do. If they start the upsell just yank their chain. For people who don't really know cars be sure to take the service book with you & make the SA show you where you really need this or that service at 20,000 miles.

loki

So think about this...you've praised your dealership, yet described exactly what the issue is. Back and forth with sales manager for every proposal, what price do you have in mind, finance guy with snake oil, etc. So even the best of the best does it. They can't help it. It's who they are fundamentally. You said no BS tactics but you still had to go through the back and forth "let me talk to my manager". I give them one - and I'm not exaggerating, ONE trip to the manager's desk. That's it. I'm clear about it too. One guy I told and he didn't believe me. He came back with a stupid number and I told him that's not what I offered. He said let me go back and talk to him, and I stood up and said "what did I tell you 15 minutes ago before you went first time?" - He followed me, as in, actually followed me out to my car as I was leaving.

pyrodan007

Yes, I 1000% approve of this. The other thing that can work very well is mentioning sister dealerships (same inventory, less pressure to trade with externals). They only care about themselves, kind of fun seeing them turn into cannibals. Sad, but I despise this shopping experience even though I love cars.

BEAR-AvHistory

Which one do you use if you don't mind saying? I have bought from dealers in Raleigh, Cary & Durham. Also have bought new cars from Oregon & South Carolina & Georgia without having left my computer here. Have found that internet shopping cuts a lot of the showroom shuffle out of the buying cycle. It the salesman's dancing shoes go on my sneakers head for the door.

Thing to keep telling yourself is they need to sell the car more than you need to buy it.

loki

The closest I've come to decent and honest (somewhat) dealer is Pauly Acura in Highland Park, IL and their counterpart Pauly Honda in Libertyville, IL. They still do the song and dance but compared to others, they're above.

Shadow2056

I actually like customers like this. And I have a couple of customers like this as well. I tell my managers they have one chance and they guy is walking. I get a LOT of customers that say that though but won't tell me the number. My reply to them is "You want me to get to your number, only giving me one chance but yet won't tell me what that number is. But you said you don't want to play games. That's a game. Tell me what price you want to be at. That way it's one trip for me and another 3 more saying 'Let me talk to my manager.'" If it's a reasonable one, my manager will do it. But a lot of them are like $2K below invoice. Sorry. we're not Chevy or Ford where we can afford that kind of mess. Come in with a reasonable number, I'll fight tooth and nail for you to get it. Come in with something outrageous, I won't even take it to my managers. But I like the ones like you. You come in with a number and give one chance. No back and forth. That's what I like. Lol.

vhtran

LOL..I did the same thing like this with my wife's Clarity when they did the back and forth. The manager went to my car and asked me to go back in which I told him, I only go back in there to sign the contract and call my wife to congrats her on her new car, otherwise don't waste my time.

robnalex

BS is everywhere. It's a matter of degrees and how one negotiates it. And for the TLX it was zero trips to the manager. Sales Rep had authority. Less than 5 minutes and he came to me with a price. No song. No dance. And even the Finance guy was not pushing the snake oil hard. He offered. We said no. End of conversation. I swear, some of you guys just live to nit-pick.

pyrodan007

This counts as a good dealership. It worked out in your favor. The manager fieldtrip is usually a non-negotiable. And first offer is 99% crap unless your ass leaves the chair or you let them known ahead of time. If not, they play the same script to everyone.

I really wonder how this will play out for people that pre-ordered the Type-S. "About the MSRP, sorry but we had to increase due to availability and extreme popularity, I'll see what my manager can do about it..."