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ya they can ask what ever they want. It just means if some dummy walks in and offers 10K over asking he feels like hes getting a deal and the dealership is laughing. I don’t see the type S having the same cache (and im picking mine up in 10 days so its not like im bashing the car) as the type R. I think the type S is basically going to just be another trim level when the dust settles and the shortages are over where as the type R is dynamically nothing like the base civic.
And once again the key word is “has”. I’m finding it hard to fathom many people, if any, are paying more than a few thousand over. $25,000 over puts you at a price point where you can by some pretty neat cars. Hmmm, should I buy an M3 or a Civic?
w
You're contradicting yourself. You said how the market adjusts but these Civics continue to sell for astronomical prices. If what you're saying is true ("has") that means no one is paying mark ups and dealers are adjusting to it. But they're not adjusting, meaning that people ARE paying these prices for Civics. It's not the dealership fault. It's consumers who are doing this even 4 years later. And it's Honda's fault too. They flat out don't give a shit about it, no matter how many people contacted them over it since 2017. Dodge put a quick stop to Demon and Hellcat mark ups. They said anyone caught marking them up will never get another one. That's why you can go to Dodge dealership and buy a Hellcat or Hellcat Redeye for MSRP if you can afford it. Ford did the same with Mach-E. They spanked the dealers who were marking them up and now they're all MSRP when and where available. Honda on the other hand...playing stupid for 4 years. What's more comical is all the reviewers who get Type R from Honda talk about the car how it costs $36K and not one of them mentions mark ups. They all hush about it. Same thing on Honda website. You go spec out a Type R at $36K and click request local inventory contact and then dealer emails you back and says come on in, we've got one and it's only $45K plus $10K of gimmick accessories, it's all yours for only $55K. When you tell Honda this, you get this response: .................................................. crickets.......................................... .......................
Originally Posted by sombasol
ya they can ask what ever they want. It just means if some dummy walks in and offers 10K over asking he feels like hes getting a deal and the dealership is laughing. I don’t see the type S having the same cache (and im picking mine up in 10 days so its not like im bashing the car) as the type R. I think the type S is basically going to just be another trim level when the dust settles and the shortages are over where as the type R is dynamically nothing like the base civic.
Dynamically, maybe. But at the end of the day, it IS still just a Civic. R or not, you're paying $45, 50, 60K for a Honda Civic.
And once again the key word is “has”. I’m finding it hard to fathom many people, if any, are paying more than a few thousand over. $25,000 over puts you at a price point where you can by some pretty neat cars. Hmmm, should I buy an M3 or a Civic?
w
I understand what you're saying, but lets be real here.. Some dealerships are shit heads that list such bullshit for 70K. This dealership (In NJ) did sell this civic Type-R. Not sure what the final price was but for that cost, M3 all day.
I understand what you're saying, but lets be real here.. Some dealerships are shit heads that list such bullshit for 70K. This dealership (In NJ) did sell this civic Type-R. Not sure what the final price was but for that cost, M3 all day.
Thing is the TLX-S is not a Fast & Furious car. Different image & buyer demographic.
I understand what you're saying, but lets be real here.. Some dealerships are shit heads that list such bullshit for 70K. This dealership (In NJ) did sell this civic Type-R. Not sure what the final price was but for that cost, M3 all day.
are you sure you’re getting yours on the 30th? Basically the United States said June 23 and that wasn’t true, only for the demos. We are being told around august for actual purchase models. Hard to imagine you guys will be getting and driving yours around for 2 months before us when they are made in Ohio. Is it June 30 for your demos?
are you sure you’re getting yours on the 30th? Basically the United States said June 23 and that wasn’t true, only for the demos. We are being told around august for actual purchase models. Hard to imagine you guys will be getting and driving yours around for 2 months before us when they are made in Ohio. Is it June 30 for your demos?
thats the difference, there are no demos in Canada. 240 total cars, 119 were presold online. Each dealership gets 1 to start so thats 51 cars, as far as i know all of those have someones name on them too. No point in having a demo at each dealership when that would acount for more then 1/5 of the total alloted cars and the majority if not all of them already have aomeones name on it. My dealerships been really good, i wanted an apex blue which wasnt one of the presale options, so they got their alotted car in blue for me. Didnt ask for any money down until the actualdetails were released on the 20th of may, at which time i put down 2g fully refundable following a test drive. Paying MSRP (which i have no problem with due to the lack of supply) but got good discounts on an extended warranty, accessories and parts w free install.
thats the difference, there are no demos in Canada. 240 total cars, 119 were presold online. Each dealership gets 1 to start so thats 51 cars, as far as i know all of those have someones name on them too. No point in having a demo at each dealership when that would acount for more then 1/5 of the total alloted cars and the majority if not all of them already have aomeones name on it. My dealerships been really good, i wanted an apex blue which wasnt one of the presale options, so they got their alotted car in blue for me. Didnt ask for any money down until the actualdetails were released on the 20th of may, at which time i put down 2g fully refundable following a test drive. Paying MSRP (which i have no problem with due to the lack of supply) but got good discounts on an extended warranty, accessories and parts w free install.
nice. I called my dealership and they are still like we don’t know anything, Acura hasn’t said anything more to us than what’s already been announced. I asked how many they are getting and they don’t even know that. I want to go in and do the paperwork and accessories but can’t even do that yet either. I’m #4 on the list unless someone has backed out.
thats the difference, there are no demos in Canada. 240 total cars, 119 were presold online. Each dealership gets 1 to start so thats 51 cars, as far as i know all of those have someones name on them too. No point in having a demo at each dealership when that would acount for more then 1/5 of the total alloted cars and the majority if not all of them already have aomeones name on it. My dealerships been really good, i wanted an apex blue which wasnt one of the presale options, so they got their alotted car in blue for me. Didnt ask for any money down until the actualdetails were released on the 20th of may, at which time i put down 2g fully refundable following a test drive. Paying MSRP (which i have no problem with due to the lack of supply) but got good discounts on an extended warranty, accessories and parts w free install.
Are you in Toronto? I have one on order as well but delivery won't take place till some time in July. Did they quote you end of June originally?
Im in eastern ontario, they have paper work saying its being released for delivery on the 28th, and they are able to sell it on the 30th (if they can get everything on it it time, otherwise it will be the 2nd of July)
Yeah, good luck guys. Everyone said Civic Type R will sell over MSRP for just few months too. Yet, here we are 4 years later, at the dawn of the 11th Gen Type R and it STILL sells for at least $5K over, in many cases $10-15K, some even $25K. Right now, as I type, Racine Honda has two for $26K over MSRP.
No way dealers push the S above MSRP long term (don't forget many aren't charging over MSRP today even at the peak of it's demand), maybe a few try to pull a fast one in certain regions to capitalize on the initial demand but demand for this is going to fall off the cliff - this is going to be a very low volume trim level, Acura knows it, any educated buyer knows it, it might even end up with incentives by next summer. Civic Type R is more likely to appeal to a different, younger, more inexperienced demographic that are willing to get bent over for a car that looks straight out of the movies because they haven't learned any better yet and dealers are preying on their ignorance.
Yeah, good luck guys. Everyone said Civic Type R will sell over MSRP for just few months too. Yet, here we are 4 years later, at the dawn of the 11th Gen Type R and it STILL sells for at least $5K over, in many cases $10-15K, some even $25K. Right now, as I type, Racine Honda has two for $26K over MSRP.
Not quite the same. The Civic Type-R has been selling over MSRP since its debut. But the TLX Type-S isn't. Most dealerships are selling/pre-selling them at just the MSRP.
I understand what you're saying, but lets be real here.. Some dealerships are shit heads that list such bullshit for 70K. This dealership (In NJ) did sell this civic Type-R. Not sure what the final price was but for that cost, M3 all day.
Open Road Honda is about 10 minutes from my home; they notoriously overcharge even for everything in their inventory. (I purchased my old 07 Accord EX-L V6 from these guys.) They truly are a den of thieves. (Autosport Honda in nearby Bridgewater isnt that much better.)
VIP Honda in nearby Plainfield has the same car advertised for MSRP.
All that said, I honestly think the CTR is one of the most overrated cars on the market today. It's so unbelievable that anyone would even consider paying above sticker for one of these.
I understand what you're saying, but lets be real here.. Some dealerships are shit heads that list such bullshit for 70K. This dealership (In NJ) did sell this civic Type-R. Not sure what the final price was but for that cost, M3 all day.
My managers just dropped the price of the Type R LE we have. I kept telling them the ones wanting to pay $80-90k for one are the collectors that #'s 1-20. The rest are people that aren't/can't pay $70k for any car. When they price them like that, they take it out of the budget of the people who actually want to buy the car.
I'm more annoyed that digital instrumentation is available on the new Civic but not on any 21 TLX trim level.
There are many examples of where Acura is leaps behind Honda. For example, you can get a $20K Civic EX and you'll get an OEM remote starter. You can't get that on TLX or RDX even on a $50K Advance trims which is comical!
Also, Accord Touring ($37K) you get adaptive dampers, HUD, rear heated seats, low speed braking, rain-sensing wipers and few other things that you can't get on TLX base, TLX Tech or even TLX Tech A-Spec. You need to go to the Advance that's $15K more than the Accord to get those things. And then there's people out there buying the FWD TLX for $10K more than the Accord and getting less features, more weight, worse MPG and slower car that has exact same engine and trans without AWD. To say this is bizarre is an understatement.
Originally Posted by Shadow2056
My managers just dropped the price of the Type R LE we have. I kept telling them the ones wanting to pay $80-90k for one are the collectors that #'s 1-20. The rest are people that aren't/can't pay $70k for any car. When they price them like that, they take it out of the budget of the people who actually want to buy the car.
That has been CTR problem from the get go. At MSRP, it's not cheap but it's obtainable by the target demographics. At $50, 60, 70K...even people who have that kind of money are not going to spend it on a Honda Civic. This is 100% Honda's fault for allowing it. And it's also the fact US is the only country in the world that hasn't outlawed this practice. The dealership cartel lobby is too powerful. US remains the only place on Earth where it's illegal for OEMs to sell cars to consumers directly.
My managers just dropped the price of the Type R LE we have. I kept telling them the ones wanting to pay $80-90k for one are the collectors that #'s 1-20. The rest are people that aren't/can't pay $70k for any car. When they price them like that, they take it out of the budget of the people who actually want to buy the car.
That has been CTR problem from the get go. At MSRP, it's not cheap but it's obtainable by the target demographics. At $50, 60, 70K...even people who have that kind of money are not going to spend it on a Honda Civic. This is 100% Honda's fault for allowing it. And it's also the fact US is the only country in the world that hasn't outlawed this practice. The dealership cartel lobby is too powerful. US remains the only place on Earth where it's illegal for OEMs to sell cars to consumers directly.
Does it go both ways tho? ADM blows, but do other countries have the opportunity to haggle the price down from sticker? I would think they would, seeing as there's no middle-man that needs to make the profit, but I genuinely don't know.
Originally Posted by F23A4
Did they drop it from ADM to MRSP at least?
Seeing as most scumbag dealers still don't have even standard CTRs for sticker, I doubt any that marked up their LE ones are anywhere near sticker.
Does it go both ways tho? ADM blows, but do other countries have the opportunity to haggle the price down from sticker? I would think they would, seeing as there's no middle-man that needs to make the profit, but I genuinely don't know.
Seeing as most scumbag dealers still don't have even standard CTRs for sticker, I doubt any that marked up their LE ones are anywhere near sticker.
I can only speak from what I know which is few European countries. You can definitely negotiate the price. For example, I've visited Opel and Peugeot salons (what they call dealerships in Europe). Store was franchised/independent but employees are 100% employees of Peugeot, even as franchised. Something like McDonald's in US. Each store is independent but people that get hired are backed by the big name.
On another note, I would have no problem if cars cost MSRP. Get rid of the "MSRP" altogether, the whole "suggested" is BS. Every car has a price from factory, period. It costs what it costs. No more 500 variables, no more kickbacks from banks, no more of one price if you take this financing, this price of you take that. I don't care if that means cars go up by 20%. Make them transparent and ONE price, period. That way you can budget and plan to buy when you can afford it. You can spec it out online, buy online and just go to dealer to pick it up. In and out in 30 minutes. No more 5 hours of strategic wear down by salesman, no more 15 trips to "talk to manager", no more manipulations and disgusting tactics in F&I office. Enough with this bullshit dinosaur business model. It needs to die. TODAY.
It WAS $78k. Knocked down to $65k. Thing is it actually has accessories added. Not just a crazy mark up like a lot of dealers do. But I was able to get the GM to tell me to sell it at $55k if I get a serious buyer.
There are many examples of where Acura is leaps behind Honda. For example, you can get a $20K Civic EX and you'll get an OEM remote starter. You can't get that on TLX or RDX even on a $50K Advance trims which is comical!
Also, Accord Touring ($37K) you get adaptive dampers, HUD, rear heated seats, low speed braking, rain-sensing wipers and few other things that you can't get on TLX base, TLX Tech or even TLX Tech A-Spec. You need to go to the Advance that's $15K more than the Accord to get those things. And then there's people out there buying the FWD TLX for $10K more than the Accord and getting less features, more weight, worse MPG and slower car that has exact same engine and trans without AWD. To say this is bizarre is an understatement.
I never understood that. Remote start used to be a standard feature for luxury cars and a added feature you have to pay extra for on economy cars. Now you get it standard on the $25k Civic and you have to add it on a $45k TLX Advanced and $55k TLX Type S. Funny thing is Toyota you have to do a subscription for it. Like...wtc?
Originally Posted by SRB-TL
That has been CTR problem from the get go. At MSRP, it's not cheap but it's obtainable by the target demographics. At $50, 60, 70K...even people who have that kind of money are not going to spend it on a Honda Civic. This is 100% Honda's fault for allowing it. And it's also the fact US is the only country in the world that hasn't outlawed this practice. The dealership cartel lobby is too powerful. US remains the only place on Earth where it's illegal for OEMs to sell cars to consumers directly.
I've had maybe 2 or 3 people want to buy directly from the manufacture. I never knew it was illegal to do so. Idk why though. But if they did, that would put me out of a job. Buying cars is the only place where you can ask for a discount. Buying a house, especially now, it's no discount. Go to get groceries, if you don't have a coupon, no discount. Buying shoes, unless there's a sell, no discount. There's no haggling.
They're not going to hire people to be able to go over the features of the car. If they do that, they'll just say "Might as well have the dealerships and pay them for their time."
I never understood that. Remote start used to be a standard feature for luxury cars and a added feature you have to pay extra for on economy cars. Now you get it standard on the $25k Civic and you have to add it on a $45k TLX Advanced and $55k TLX Type S. Funny thing is Toyota you have to do a subscription for it. Like...wtc?
I've had maybe 2 or 3 people want to buy directly from the manufacture. I never knew it was illegal to do so. Idk why though. But if they did, that would put me out of a job. Buying cars is the only place where you can ask for a discount. Buying a house, especially now, it's no discount. Go to get groceries, if you don't have a coupon, no discount. Buying shoes, unless there's a sell, no discount. There's no haggling.
They're not going to hire people to be able to go over the features of the car. If they do that, they'll just say "Might as well have the dealerships and pay them for their time."
Believe it or not, plenty of things can be haggled. People just don't know they can do it. You can haggle at Home Depot and Lowes, you can haggle at Best Buy, you can (and really should) haggle on mattresses, etc. Heck you can even haggle at Walmart and Target.
I never understood that. Remote start used to be a standard feature for luxury cars and a added feature you have to pay extra for on economy cars. Now you get it standard on the $25k Civic and you have to add it on a $45k TLX Advanced and $55k TLX Type S. Funny thing is Toyota you have to do a subscription for it. Like...wtc?
I've had maybe 2 or 3 people want to buy directly from the manufacture. I never knew it was illegal to do so. Idk why though. But if they did, that would put me out of a job. Buying cars is the only place where you can ask for a discount. Buying a house, especially now, it's no discount. Go to get groceries, if you don't have a coupon, no discount. Buying shoes, unless there's a sell, no discount. There's no haggling.
They're not going to hire people to be able to go over the features of the car. If they do that, they'll just say "Might as well have the dealerships and pay them for their time."
I disagree. Why would that put you out of work? You'd be an employee of Acura with real benefits and real company. You wouldn't have to worry how to pay bills and buy food because you depend on commission. You would have HR to back you up and not be at mercy of Haji's Quick Auto. All these dealerships are owned by horrible unscrupulous people. You probably get hounded on daily basis to SELL SELL SELL. Why wouldn't you want to be Acura's employee? I am 100% for no haggling but that means for dealership to have 5 seconds to answer when you ask "How much is this car?" and not have you go through 2-3 hours of stupidity just to get sales price. It goes both ways. Which is why I'm saying this model of business needs to go away and become corporate. You wouldn't be out of job. Why do CarMax employees have jobs? Why do Tesla employees have jobs?
I'm more annoyed that digital instrumentation is available on the new Civic but not on any 21 TLX trim level.
Personally I'd take analog tach/spedo over that bland digital one on the Civic all else being equal. If you're going to go all digital make it functional, something like Audi's cockpit where you can put up your entire Google Maps nav right in the cluster for example. I want functionality not party tricks. I'm disappointed the TLX doesn't have a digital cluster as well because I want it to have something like what Audi has. Not everything has to be a screen but if you do make it all screen for gods sake do something with it besides reinvent the wheel.
Personally I'd take analog tach/spedo over that bland digital one on the Civic all else being equal. If you're going to go all digital make it functional, something like Audi's cockpit where you can put up your entire Google Maps nav right in the cluster for example. I want functionality not party tricks. I'm disappointed the TLX doesn't have a digital cluster as well because I want it to have something like what Audi has. Not everything has to be a screen but if you do make it all screen for gods sake do something with it besides reinvent the wheel.
Yeah, no...I dont need a full map in my gauge cluster. The iPad plopped atop my dashboard is perfectly viewable in that position while driving (and not that far above the positioning of the navi screen in my old 19 TLX.). I just feel that since a 12.3-inch HD Virtual Cockpit™ Digital Instrument Cluster is available across the entire MDX lineup it should be available in the A-Spec/Advanced trim if not across the entire TLX lineup. It just wreaks of cost-cutting which is unbecoming of a premium brand. Makes one wonder where else there was cost cutting.
thats the difference, there are no demos in Canada. 240 total cars, 119 were presold online. Each dealership gets 1 to start so thats 51 cars, as far as i know all of those have someones name on them too. No point in having a demo at each dealership when that would acount for more then 1/5 of the total alloted cars and the majority if not all of them already have aomeones name on it. My dealerships been really good, i wanted an apex blue which wasnt one of the presale options, so they got their alotted car in blue for me. Didnt ask for any money down until the actualdetails were released on the 20th of may, at which time i put down 2g fully refundable following a test drive. Paying MSRP (which i have no problem with due to the lack of supply) but got good discounts on an extended warranty, accessories and parts w free install.
FYI, my local Canadian dealership is keeping a 2021 MY TLX Type-S as a showroom demo. Being a showroom demo, test drive is not available. So they are able to sell it as new later on, when another 2022 MY Type-S demo arrives.
Unless all future 2022/2023 MY Type-S allocations are sold out as well, otherwise they must keep a demo unit in the showroom for potential customers to sit in and check out. The 2022 Type-S sedans are still available for ordering on the wait list.
Looks like Honda wised up from the Civic Type R fiasco.
I talked to two Chicago dealers who have TLX-S in stock, they both said the same thing. Acura gave them seeder units for test drives and demos only. No sales, no offers, no pressure, no BS about "must buy to test drive", no deposits needed, no credit checks needed. Just schedule your 30 min and go drive it. I am glad Honda did this.
I'm going on Thursday to drive a white one.
I'll post my thoughts at the time. But so far, good job Acura on keeping the reins on the dealers.
Moved it up to tonight! Going in few hours to drive it. The only shitty thing is, Morton Grove Acura is in Skokie/Morton Grove area; it will be absolutely horrendous traffic around 5pm when I go there.
I disagree. Why would that put you out of work? You'd be an employee of Acura with real benefits and real company. You wouldn't have to worry how to pay bills and buy food because you depend on commission. You would have HR to back you up and not be at mercy of Haji's Quick Auto. All these dealerships are owned by horrible unscrupulous people. You probably get hounded on daily basis to SELL SELL SELL. Why wouldn't you want to be Acura's employee? I am 100% for no haggling but that means for dealership to have 5 seconds to answer when you ask "How much is this car?" and not have you go through 2-3 hours of stupidity just to get sales price. It goes both ways. Which is why I'm saying this model of business needs to go away and become corporate. You wouldn't be out of job. Why do CarMax employees have jobs? Why do Tesla employees have jobs?
Corporate isn't always best. And working at the dealership I do, I'm happy and have job security. I don't get hounded to sell. Mr. Hendrick isn't an "unscrupulous" person either. Lol. I understand you having anger or hate towards dealerships. Not all of them are the same.
Originally Posted by fiatlux
Believe it or not, plenty of things can be haggled. People just don't know they can do it. You can haggle at Home Depot and Lowes, you can haggle at Best Buy, you can (and really should) haggle on mattresses, etc. Heck you can even haggle at Walmart and Target.
Never knew that. Electronics stores maybe. But never the others.
Yeah, no...I dont need a full map in my gauge cluster. The iPad plopped atop my dashboard is perfectly viewable in that position while driving (and not that far above the positioning of the navi screen in my old 19 TLX.). I just feel that since a 12.3-inch HD Virtual Cockpit™ Digital Instrument Cluster is available across the entire MDX lineup it should be available in the A-Spec/Advanced trim if not across the entire TLX lineup. It just wreaks of cost-cutting which is unbecoming of a premium brand. Makes one wonder where else there was cost cutting.
True I don't need it either the infotainment screen is just as good but I still like what Audi is doing (and presumably others) because they are utilizing the whole screen with some options. If all a digital cluster gets me is some slight tweaks to how the information looks I can take it or leave it but I do appreciate extra functionality and the MDX is a good example of something I feel like they could do more with. Just a picture of the car with it's blinker on vs an arrow and different colors on the gauges based on drive mode doesn't do much for me by itself.
TLX specific but I kind of like the throwback red on white in the Aspec and S, again subjective and all that and might just be me lol. I'm mostly talking my own feelings on digital v. analog but I hear you it's a questionable choice, if the Civic is getting it it certainly can't be of great extra cost, probably a wash and came down more to an intentional decision for whatever reason.
Moved it up to tonight! Going in few hours to drive it. The only shitty thing is, Morton Grove Acura is in Skokie/Morton Grove area; it will be absolutely horrendous traffic around 5pm when I go there.
Whether you love or hate it hope you have fun with it!
06-20-2021, 08:33 AM
