BEAR-AvHistory

Only absolutely, without a doubt, the only guys who will not be shocked, simply shocked, by these numbers will be those who have zero interest in performance & will buy a i4 anyway.

MT First Look TLX-Type-S

Pros:
Competitive price
Attractive design
Good handling
Cons:
Heavy weight
Short on power
Poor legroom in the rear seat
0-60 MPH 5.3-5.8 sec (MT est)

Looks like they are hoping for a Type-R

"As enthusiasts, we're excited to see the return of the Type S, but as a performance brand, there's more Acura can do to satisfy our wants—the TLX could happily take more power, and we haven't forgotten about the other letter in the alphabet that hasn't yet returned to Acura. We said the Type S is like the Reserva of Spanish wines, will we get to try the Gran Reserva?"

mec30

I have no idea what this is in reference to. Why don't we stick to talking cars rather than personal attacks?

bilirubin

All other factors being equal, adding 150 + lbs to a car will make it slower to 60. Physics.

loki

Wasn't talking to you and even less attacking anyone. I'm out of this discussion, apparently I'm not getting it. ☮️

BEAR-AvHistory

Really? A single occupant with 1/8th tank maybe quicker to 60 than a single occupant with a Full tank in the same car. Those are real items on the street & on the track. That's the point of randomness changing the outcome.

Could be a situation where the 150lb guy offsets his weight by increasing traction with ASR.

Regardless MT said the car is not strong & the 4.7/4.8 in question with the 150lbs man & road shoulder looks like Jato assist compared to the the MT 5.3/5.8 numbers so the whole 150lb man & launching from the shoulder is much to do about nothing.

Right now we are looking at anything from C&D 4.6 to MT 5.8 so the jury is still out. Personally in the "how will it do" I posted upper 4's so 4.7 seems reasonable to me given the weight of the car itself. C&D gave it a nice number to 60 then took it back with its numbers to 100 & the 1/4 mile. Its hard for me to get my mind around 4.6 seconds 60 & 13.5 second to 100.

Takes less than 5 seconds to get to 60 but then an additional 8.5 seconds to gain 40mph?

SebringSilver

I’m just waiting for some lucky new TLX Type S owner to tune their car to 700+ hp like somebody suggested on another thread. Should be epic. Lol

bilirubin

Nice try but you can't weasel your way out of physics. Operative words: "All other factors being equal"

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

You mean like most of the experts on the 2nd gen TLX FB group?

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Like WD-40 and compound are the same for removing scratches? Results are still the same?

BEAR-AvHistory

Point is your Operative words: "All other factors being equal" are invalid for what we are discussing. That removing the passenger will have a material result one way or another. I submit that you could make 10 runs - 5 with & 5 without the passenger - there will be overlapping times. All runs without a passenger will not be quicker than all runs with the passenger.

Its called reality vs theory. All other factors being equal do not exist in the world of automobile performance. Its even very difficult for the same car, same driver to make back to back runs & get the same results. You want to play spec racing which ignores the real world enjoy your physics. Even the magazine specs are not the result of a number of runs that are timed exactly the same to the one hundredth of a second. They are the best number they could get out of the car in a series of runs.

I know some of you are grasping for 1/10 second or so despite not really giving a s**t about 0-60 but using the passenger thing in the 4.7 run is not going to help. C&D already WAGed it quicker than the 4.7 so try to hang onto that.

In the meantime inspite of the laws of physics due to the random mature of real life we have so called experts driving in same cars built to the exact same spec, monitored by factory techs, turning in numbers from 4.5 to 5.8 for a 0-60 run. The god of physics must really be pissed off.

jjsC5

I do not agree that that 4.7 is slow by today’s standards. I would agree that is is not fast by today’s standards. Very few cars in its class are consistently more than about a tenth faster. The 340/440 is simply an outlier.

Honda430

Outside of the bragadocious set who really needs a car any faster than that? While I can completely understand wanting to stick your chest out I really don't understand non-professional drivers hanging the entire merit of a vehicle on it's being .7 seconds slower than another. Outside of pissing contests in the enthusiast's community nobody really gives a darn nor will those .7 seconds impact real world performance.

mec30

I just want someone to run these cars side-by-side. I've only seen one video of the Type S against the S4 and it wasn't close. I want to see if that result is repeatable. That will give me a better idea of the relative difference between the two than 0-60 times.

BEAR-AvHistory

OK but my 2011 was doing 4.5, my 2014 was doing 4.5 & my 2018 was doing 4.4 & there were any number of Audi & MB's that would give them a run for its money at Rockingham. I think the segment that is talked about will all be at 4 or sub 4 in 2022. This will create a second tier at or near the 4,7/5.0 mark. Agree over an span of time the TYPE-S is quick & would put down most of the Muscle Cars. Just don't think so far it has the juice to run with the better cars. The Audi was picked & the others excluded for a reason.

If C&D WAG times are correct it will be run down by most all that it can manage to beat out of the hole. 1/8th mile time would be an interesting number to see.

4G-Lover

Which muscle car would be put down by the current Type S?? Definitely None of the V8 current production, not even close, maybe it will manage to be as fast as the Challenger RT with the small Hemi 5.7
Current Mustang GT and Camaro SS are M4 fast (F83).

BEAR-AvHistory

Stick the word Classic in & do it over.

bilirubin

I'm glad that you can admit that you were wrong. Much appreciated.

jhb31

From all I have read the Type S on it's best run would be lucky to keep up with the S4 on a bad run 0-60. Not sure why you think the S4 is a slow car. It's right there with all 3 of your cars in the above post. Only way the Acura would best the S4 is if the Audi driver didn't really try. I suspect they choose the Audi more so because they lose more buyers to Audi than the other two brands. That's definitely been a common theme on these forums.

Honda430

I think the S4 was choosen because it's low hanging fruit. Great car, but reviewers tend to prefer the M340i and AMG C43. Of those three cars the S4 is the slowest by a few tenths of a second.

Shadow2056

Yall still griping about the 0-60? Folks. Get over it. Lol. Here's a list of cars that do 0-60 in less than 5 seconds. Only one that's even close to the class of the Type S is the Stinger GT.

https://www.hotcars.com/sedans-that-...der-5-seconds/

If yall are so bent on that 0-60 4.8-4.9 being slow, seriously folks. Don't buy the car. Even get off this thread.

So let's get off the 0-60 time. It is what it is. Move on. Let's talk infotainment. Let's talk paint colors. Let's talk features. Anyone got anything on those? Or yall just stuck on the 0-60 and that's all you care about?

bilirubin

True, Acura definitely wasn't taking any chances by bringing the Audi S4 for the press day, they knew the Type S could beat it or a least keep up. With that said, we've seen the Audi S4 beat the C43 AMG in from a dig (see video), which is enough to conclude that the Type S could potentially beat the C43 on any given Sunday.

Kense

just because YOU don’t care if a sports sedan is fast doesn’t mean others don’t. You can focus on cosmetics and paint. If somebody is spending 55-60k for something that has been marketed as a fast competitor to the Germans they want to know how close it is. Just get the 4 cylinder then .

BEAR-AvHistory

Because like the TLX Type S if the C&D estimate is even close they all die at 60 mph the Type S more than the 335/340/444 with the older engines. The three cars I posted were all similar in 0-60 & 1/4 mile in the 12.9 to 13.2 slightly quicker than C&D's Type S estimate of 13.5 to 13.7. This was 2011/2018 quick not 2021 quick. The Audi is quick to 60 in C&D test but runs high 12's in the quarter about the same as the base 2018 440. My version with the MPPSK would match the 0-60 & run the 1/4 in 12.5.

What most people don't realize is going back to 2011 there has always been a faster quicker version of the base 335/340/440 for about $2500.

The jump to the present was made with the 382BHP B58 which has a sub 4 second 0-60 & a low 12.2 1/4 mile. My older cars with the power packs are slow compared to my new one. Maybe a better term is the Type-S in one engine generation behind. The Audi 2022 S4 fits between the current BMW & TypeS & I believe its why they used it. Its a no lose deal. If they win its a kill & if the lose its close & good enough for the money.

One thing that is suspect to me is the low 4 second claim for the S4 by C&D. Does not show well off the line in the vid. That said I always use C&D times because they are generally consistent enough that you can compare cars with them. Not necessarily the raw numbers but the spreads.

BMW Audi MB Drag & Roll Race

Mak P

I agree these threads love . The time is what it is and not going to just change cause you keep talking about it. I'm more interested in what a simple tune can do. I like the power folding mirrors was included, but I think a 360 camera is more important. My 360 saved me from dumbasses boxing me in near downtown. Its kind of putting me off getting this car. More HP and speed yeah, backwards in features

BEAR-AvHistory

Point is Honda is trying to raise the badge appeal of the Acura brand though association with the German brands. They are also selling it as a sports sedan & need to show close numbers against the accepted top tier sports sedans the Germans. Sports sedans Go, Stop, Turn, Accelerate - everything else like the radio is extra. Yeah the Stinger & Red 400 will run in the mid 4's but Kia/Hunyadi & Infiniti are not who Acura wants the badge to be identified with. If it takes out the S4 they get tons & tons of good add copy & add vids to show. Lot better than throwing up dirt all by themselves in the desert.

Why 0-60? Because its the best place for a 4200lbs car with 355bhp & AWD can shine. Its not going to shine against lighter more powerful cars in the 1/4 mile or around VIR. For Stopping they added track pads to the Laguna Seca cars, wonder if the Audi S4 also got track pads?

Honda430

Bear, I don't think the S4 did any runs on the track. Why you think you can speak for Acura is a complete mystery to me. They developed a performance version of the TLX. That's all the Type S is. Does it represent best in class? I think we all agree that it doesn't. It does though get Acura in a conversation they weren't in previously. Everything I've read says it's an excellent effort. You are aware that there is a segment of the automoble buying public that refuses to buy German. For those folks the Type S provides a competitive Japanese option.

Mak P

Acura never said this car is faster 0-60 than those cars. Either way do you have to flood the thread about it after its already been proven that it is or isn't? You have a rough estimate of what the car does 0-60, that's it. T/S said let's avoid having that kind of thread, AGAIN

BEAR-AvHistory

HUH? I am not speaking for Acura just commenting on what I see in their marketing program. Global Marketing is something I have a reasonable amount of experience in. Been involved watching Acura's marketing since my 2006 TL. If you look at Acura's marketing of the TL line when the 4G line was developed it was designed as said by a number of Acura executives to "move us into the trier one category" "We are going to compete head to head with the Germans". That's why they built a very large car & matched it up with 5 series comparisons every chance they got. I expect they were toughly embarrassed when the 5 series outsold the TL.

They then shifted gears into the precision performance thing with the next generation. Now we are right back using German cars as the basis for comparison. I don't see that the dream of parity has died. Thing is they could use any line of cars to compete with in their advertising.

BUT if you are selling a product & you pick a target to market against you should be prepared to kill the target or pick a different one. Just IMHO. Point, you will very seldom if ever see the tire I cars develop a marketing program against another tier 1 car. Their add are generally all about their cars & never mention the competition. Exception is in racing sponsorships or factory teams.

Just to be clear, I don't see anything wrong with the TLX product in general, little things like HUD not being available on the performance version is strange. My take is how the product is pitched based on what I see of the buyers & fans here. They tend not to build the product they are advertising. The customers except for a few fans are not looking to buy the product they are advertising buy will accept the product as it is.

Shadow2056

the 0-60 isn't going to change just because yall bash the car. Lol. Don't like it? Go get the other car since that's all that yall seem to care about. No need to keep going on about it. Sounds more like an excuse to bash the car and go to another brand than just saying it's slow.

Yes. Acura marketing it as a competitor is...meh...understandable and bad at the same time. The vast majority of the people buying the Type S aren't doing 0-60 pulls from every light so I'm sure that's not a major player in their decision nor are they really caring about those types of numbers. They've already made it before the embargo was lifted. The German car fans here made that apparent.

My 2020 Accord Sport 2.0 makes 320wtq. Mad fun to drive around town. Highway...not so much. The small turbo gives out at higher RPMs. But it's the fun factor. And that's another thing that Acura was going for. Sporty luxury.
Thank you. Lol. I love that it has power folding mirrors. That's a pretty cool feature. Not really a needed one except for maybe the people in the city that park on the street.

Could it use more power? Maybe. Honda/Acura never been about overabundance though. Balance is what they were trying to get. They got that with the Type S. they don't need sub 4.5 second 0-60s.

Goo point. The showy desert speeding isn't much of anything. Lol. I'd like to see lap times against it's competitors. Just to see how it would stack up. Not going to change my opinion on it nor change that I possibly plan to get one.

The Red Sport looks amazing. On looks alone, I'd actually pick the Q50 Red Sport. LOVE that red they have for it. but interior needs a serious redesign. Not a fan of 10 year old interior. Just like the IS350.

Kense

Just because I’m not 100% positive and love everything about the car doesn’t mean I’m bashing it. The whole point of this thread is to talk about the characteristics of the car. Some may care about the paint colors others about the performance.

So who buys the type s if not people who want to go fast?

jhb31

You make an excellent point. Some people don't want to go for the German brands for a number of reasons. Cost to maintain is probably on of the main ones. This is a good start and a nice option for someone who likes the TLX but wants better performance than what they had. This variant offers that to a decent degree. As optioned for the price it's a nice value. Discounts will eventually kick in and then it will be more compelling. I After a tsx, two rdx's, a tl type s and two tlx's it was probably time to try something else to get some perspective. I suspect that if my first TLX had the performance of the new type S I would still own it and not be multiple cars down the road now.

robnalex

Different strokes. 0-60 time is a valid consideration that will hold a different priority for different folks. For me, it's one consideration among many, and not at the very top of the list. Obsessing over 0-60 while ignoring other equally important attributes of the car seems like an adolescent dick-measuring contest (not that there's anything wrong with that). My interest is in the totality of how the car drives. I've owned a wide variety of cars over the past 50 years. My current 2021 TLX S-AWD Tech replaced a 2001 CL-S and is the most impressive and satisfying car I've owned. My overall impressions of this car mirror those of most reviewers of the Type-S:

• Agile handling (feels like a much lighter car)
• Solid, composed, and sure-footed
• Responsive: It does what you ask it to do almost effortlessly
• Well-appointed and comfortable
• Even the 4-cylinder can move once you become familiar with the engine.
• The 2021 TLX is a sweet-looking car!

All of the appealing and enjoyable attributes of the regular TLX with SH-AWD have been echoed by nearly every reviewer of the Type-S, which adds more power, a better transmission configuration, better suspension, brakes, etc. I wonder how many of those poo-pooing Type-S 0-60 times have even driven the non-Type-S version. Those of us who have are impressed with the total driving experience this car delivers, to which the Type-S bring some significant additions.

I look forward to test-driving a Type-S, and to seeing the price tag drop to a reasonable point by this time next year.

BEAR-AvHistory

Acura brought the S4 to the introduction and alluded too IIRC some drag races at least thats what I read HERE. YouTubers videoed drag races between the S4 & TLX Type-S. Why should it be off limits for discussion.? If it was my show the last thing, the absolutely last thing I would have done was bring in another brands car. The show would have been 100% about my car. No other brands at the intro, no conversation about 0-60, 1/4 mile, lap times, braking distances, skidpad G's, among the cars.

Two weeks ago I got to drive in a M440i introduction. There were about 40 cars present mostly M440's a few M4's the rest. X3/7 The hot runs, no factory rep along, were done on three courses with 8 cars available on each course. A braking challenge run was also set up. There was not a competitors car insight except in the guest parking lots.

Kense

This car weights almost 4300 pounds, you can’t expect it to be some handling monster. It’s also missing features people have asked for like HUD. The car is also FWD biased. If not quick to 60 I would at least expect it to handle like a Giulia so there’s really not much to desire here in comparison to competition. I’d get a new G70 over this.

Camaro194

The G70 is probably the closest competitor to the Type S. I would consider it, but can't get past the styling. Same with the Stinger.

Like others have said, the base TLX is a pretty good car and the Type S just dials things up across the board. Looking forward to driving it

fiatlux

I know that people keep comparing this against the S4, but I think it's funny that the mere existence (and success) of the S4 demonstrates that the Type S has a place in the market. Namely, there are clearly enough people who don't care that much about outright performance, because otherwise every C43 and S4 owner have bought the M340i. I think what Acura is gunning for is good enough performance so that it's not a hard no for customers who otherwise prefer the car over the competitors for whatever reason. As I've said about the regular TLX, I personally like the interior and exterior styling, the braking feel, the steering feel, the SH-AWD system, and the ride quality, even if I am disappointed that the Type S performance is hampered by its size and mass. Without having driven the Type S, I can't say the performance is a dealbreaker, but I don't think it would be; if I cared for setting lap times, I'd be looking at an M3 or M4, and if I cared about brute acceleration, I'd be looking at a Charger Hellcat. If it's more fun to drive on the road, and I like it more than the competitors, then that's all that matters.

That said, I don't blame anyone for dismissing the Type S for the lack of performance chops (if thats what ends up being the case). Acura was the one who made all these lavish claims about how great it is and how it's got NSX DNA and how they're all in on performance, yadda yadda, and frankly if that's the bar they've set for themselves, it's a miss.

mec30

The suspension is top tier and torque vectoring can do more for a car's handling than an LSD. The G70 is still up around 3,900lbs. I suspect around a curvy track they would both be competitive in the handling department. It's close enough that I don't think you can make a blanket statement just based on the numbers.

loki

I went to local Acura on Saturday with a friend to test drive the new MDX. One line about MDX: Slow underpowered boat. We asked about TLX-S and he said it will be there towards the middle of June. This is the highest ranked Acura in the Midwest, run by great people. They have both an Acura and a Honda dealer in the group. Never felt any hard sales, in many, many visits over the past 10-15 years. However, even as high end and no pressure sale dealer, they said it would be at least $3K over the MSRP, more likely closer to $10K. I asked him how do they justify that kind of price gouging, he put his arms up in a "don't know" fashion. This dealer had few PMC Acura models last year and even those were being sold quite a lot under MSRP. So to see them break character after decades of reputation to sell over MSRP is very disappointing. Nothing says they have to. It's purely their choice. I made a comment that it will hurt their hard earned reputation far more than few thousand dollars they'll upcharge it. Back in 2017 and pretty much since, I've tried to get people to stop paying MSRP for the Civic Type R. I can't get through to people that it's their fault dealers are charging more than MSRP. If people would stop paying it, the market would take care of rest. Something tells me that same will happen with the TLX-S. People will pay $10K mark-up and dealers will continue to charge it...because they can.

Vipula AD

For the most part, yes. However, the Civic Type R is an exception. I do hope that this is more of what Honda/Acura would do.
If Acura wants to take a reasonable bite out of the bigger companies, they need to have a halo car in that vehicle category (think M, RS, AMG, F, etc), and that means pushing the performance up to make an impression. I too hope they would come out with an R version or keep bumping the power up on the type S until it does make a difference to the reviewers. Not everyone would buy the top models, but they will be sold out and there will be more sales of the lower performing models because of the popularity and press coverage of the top models.

robnalex

I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out over time with the TLX-S. Are there really enough morons willing to pay 60K for this car? Initially, there may be some, but I don't see how they can sustain that kind of mark-up. My prediction is that by this time next year a TLX-S can be purchased for 47-49K, especially if they're not moving and conquest/loyalty discounts are available. And who knows? By then it will be the 2022 model and maybe they'll add the HUD and surround camera and some new colors.