Edward'TLS

Where is this 2 TLX-S allotments per dealership per year info come from ? Acura never mentioned that the TLX-S is a limited production release.

Even the $157k brand flagship NSX is being produced at more than 2 units per dealership per year.

leomio85

Pulled the number completely out of my ass. How many dealers are there in the US? I couldn't find anything on Google. Based off the fact that they produce about ~3-4k Civic Type-R's annually for the US (no real production numbers, but that's what the interwebs guesstimates), and that car is almost $20k less (at least sticker price), you can bet the TLX Type-S production numbers will be much lower. Even with the absurd mark-ups, the CTR will still be ~$10k cheaper and still probably edge out or at the very least, match the TLX-S in performance ... I'm not comparing them, but as far as attainable performance goes, more people are going to go for the CTR over the TLX-S due to their wallet restrictions and will justify it as being just as good in the performance segment while also being cheaper. That 1-2 allotment number was under the assumption that there were about 1,000 Acura dealers nationwide (another number pulled out of my ass). So, I'd assume they'd be doing about 2k units a year. If demand is there, they'll probably ramp up production, but, I don't see that being a likely scenario. Just like manual transmissions, I think this car is something that everyone says they love, but nobody is actually going to buy.

BEAR-AvHistory

Last year NSX sold about 148 cars. There are about 300 dealers between the US & Canada. So they could give every other dealer 1 car. Actually don't think they have allotments for the NSX because the don't sell enough cars to make it worthwhile. Most likely a hand full of dealers in high income areas around the country move most of them.
For the TypeS think they will try to crank out everyone they can sell. Its not like its the new StingRay with thousands of deposits going back two years before it was release.

fiatlux

They can't afford to hold back on Type-S production. In a year or two when the new C53 AMG and the rumored 400+hp M340i comes out, it's going to be even harder for customers to look past that performance delta.

leomio85

I don't think they're going to hold back production so much as a sales tactic, I just don't think the demand is going to be there. Of course, I'm purely speculating, and I'll gladly put my foot in my mouth if this thing is a raging hit. I say this largely due to the not-so-inspiring sales that the standard 2G TLX has seen, but that may very well be because a lot of people are holding out to see what the Type-S is all about.

Vicious Type S

I totally agree... I've got my deposit down for the Type S but being an ex sales agent at Toyota, I refuse to pay any mark ups, I wont even pay msrp if I can get away with it, I will be bringing Acura's sales numbers with me to negotiate, and let them know damn well they need to sell as many as they can to be relevant in this segment. If they can't go lower than msrp, I will be expecting at least some small stuff like all weather floor Matts, tint, and ceramic or ppf included. I understand it won't be easy, but I'm not gonna be rushing to get the first 1 available and someone within my 300km range will rather make a skinny deal than no deal... Heres to hoping at least. If not, I will unfortunately have to go next door n get the M340i n hope for the best in long term maintenance.

It is getting very frustrating being just months away from release n it's been total radio silence about the TLX-S. They are losing a lot of hype they made since the Base release.

pyrodan007

That's the thing about Acura, always on full blast when doing prototype announcements but then they shit their pants when they actually have to release details. Always do it a month or so before selling starts. They should really do the non-slow burn Germans do, by the time the release date is known we already have a pretty clear idea of options and specs available with prices. And not just a month before release.

BEAR-AvHistory

You may be correct. The 2007/2008 TypeS was release at the end of the 3G cycle as a sales enhancer. It generated a lot of chatter on the 3G web site but I don't remember that they sold in any great numbers. Price & the new 4G cycle coming up hurt it to some extent.

Expect this one to do better because its a much bigger jump in performance & mechanical features than the last one was. That said I think price will be the key. The RLX being over priced for the Acura market killed it.

This is what one of the local guys said looking for a used TL-S in 2016

"I live next to the Research Triangle Park in NC where there are A LOT of regular TL's, probably due to all the 9-5 office folk, as the TL was a decent car back when. I recently got my TL Type-S last May and have been on the lookout since. I think I've only seen 4 other Type-S's. And none like mine with the A-Spec kit. I really wanted a 6MT, but none were for sale within 400 miles. Let's all just agree the 6MT is rare, but like others have said, not a collectable. Enjoy!"

Can support his statement. The 3G TL was a major car in the Triangle, not unusual to see 4 or 5 stopped at a traffic light in the neighborhood during rush hour. Now is all MB, Audi & BMW sedans & SUV's with Lexus SUV's. Last Acura survivor I see a lot of is a 4G that belongs to my across the street neighbor. His kids drive Porsche Boxster & BMW X5.

leomio85

I see the C53, but I can't find anything on the rumored bump that the M340i will be getting. I don't doubt it, seeing as the C53 is likely getting the 416HP 4-banger, I just haven't been able to find anything on it.

leomio85

I'd think right around $54k. That's a $5k jump from a base AWD Advance model. It can't be too close, otherwise it's going to cannibalize sales of its more pedestrian models. But, I can also see Acura making that price gap smaller and justifying it as why the Type S didn't get all the features that the Advance has and making it just North of $50k to $52k ... want performance? Go for the Type-S. Luxury? Go for the Advance. But, knowing Acura, they're going to make it $57k and this thing is going to sink into an abyss, lol.

Even still, if that rumor about the M340i getting a bump in power is true, oof, hard to pass up. So long as it's not just a bump in boost. Throw a tune at it and some bolt-on's and you're likely going to be nearing 500wHP. More than enough for a DD. Plus, at those numbers, possibly more reliable than the Type-S with a giant question mark on drivetrain durability. What a great time to be alive when we can belittle a car for only making 355HP, lol.

fiatlux

I don’t remember where I saw it, but the gist is that the current M340i likely already makes more than 400hp at the crank, as demonstrated by its performance numbers. The consensus is that they’re currently sandbagging the advertised numbers to protect the 425hp F80 M3, but now that the base G80 M3 will be making 473hp, there’s more room for the M340i’s power number to move on up.

leomio85

Yea, from the dyno numbers, the current M340i likely makes about as much power as the outgoing F80 M3 already. I was curious to know if they were simply going to advertise the "real" numbers, or they were going to keep going with their trend of underrating their power figures and the M340i would be getting an actual power bump. Though I can see them simply doing the former, I think it will be pointless, as the plebs will see the power increase without performance gain and scoff at how "BMW can't put its power down" or something equally as asinine.


.... probably from Acura owners. /s Teehee ...

BEAR-AvHistory

Be interesting to see, they could not sell the now dead RLX at $55,000, now the TLX goes into the lists against the Germans at $55.000? If Toyota ever moves to forced induction they are screwed.

BEAR-AvHistory

Its a performance car thing. With 700 horsepower cars available from mainstream dealers like Ford & Dodge 400-600BHP becomes the middle ground. Just about everybody wit a performance car is in 400BHP+ group now. For cheap you can drive a Mustang GT off the dealers lot for MSPR of

BTW its not belittling 355BHP so much its 355BHP in a 4,028 lb car that you are selling as a performance car thats not a great plan. If the car weighed 3500lbs no one would say anything.

For cheap you can drive a 460BHP Mustang off a dealers lot for $36,000 MSRP less any discount you can get. That is Accord money.

bilirubin

To make matters even worse, the TLX Type S will be lucky to weigh 4028lbs, the additional weight of the larger engine/components will likely push it closer to 4200lbs, maybe even more.

Kense

With the Current M340i 2019/20 people are already getting close to 500WHP with a tune. 2021 are not tunable yet. Some on the bimmer forum have hit 10's in the quarter mile with a tune.

BEAR-AvHistory

I remember when there was some overlap & my 335is inline 6 turbo was quicker than the M3 V8 N/A. Once they went to the I6T it regained the performance spread. So they are pretty careful about that. With current models they were vulnerable with the M240 vs the base M2 405BHP. They moved to adding the M2CS which has extra power of the M4's competition engine @ 444BHP. BTW these cars weigh @ 3600lbs or less.

To give you an idea how BMW BS's the Horsepower numbers C&D says this.

M2 405BHP 0-60 - 4.0 seconds 3600lb Standing ¼-mile: 12.4 sec @ 116 mph
M2CS 444BHP 0-60 - 3.8 seconds 3417lb Standing ¼-mile: 11.9 sec @ 121 mph carbon fiber hood trunk & roof
Z4 M40i 382BHP 0-60 - 3.8 seconds 3535lb Standing ¼-mile: 12.4 sec @ 116 mph

Also demonstrates why most performance oriented guys ignore the factory advertised numbers & go straight to the chassis dyno number, ET/Trap speeds.

neuronbob

Back to the Type S. After reading the last coupole of pages... Limited numbers? Acura will build all it can sell. It's not an exotic car. And markups? They'll sit and gather dust...it's not a CTR...

Vicious Type S

man I was arguing with ppl all day yesterday about this, some ppl think theres gonna be a 5-9k markup on the Type S... in order for u to successfully do huge markups, u need BOTH, a high demand, and low supply, and I agree, the Type S will be mass produced, they are not gonna be limiting production, at my dealership, I'm only the 3rd person to do a deposit for a Type S so it's not like everyone lining up to do it. And for these greedy dealerships, they are so damn short sighted, ppl are just gonna go online or call other dealers within 100-400kms and easily find ones 9k less, they are gonna lose customers for sure. You can't markup a vehicle that hasn't proven itself yet. Anybody willing to do a deposit has researched it, and even I have my reservations, the power to weight ratio is the MAIN concern for everyone.

leomio85

Yep, seen that, but if BMW can massage more power out of that motor without simply upping the boost, it means you can mod to that same power without putting as much strain on as many components. Power is still power, so the internals aren't going to care as much, but at the very minimum, the turbo will be a lot happier.

Again, it's not to say Acura will deploy an "exotic car" sales tactic and purposely keep production numbers low to drive up prices. I'm saying that Acura, being the conservative company that they are, are absolutely looking at standard 2G TLX sales as we speak and undoubtedly gauging their production numbers based on how successful the TLX has been doing thus far. So far, it's been bad news. It's looking like around 2k units a month for the past three months (guesstimating a portion of Oct and Nov were leftover 1G TLXs) ... and this is right at launch when the car generally sells the best. Acura will meter their production numbers in line with what they think they'll sell.

As for mark-ups, you can absolutely bet there will be mark-ups for the first few months. This is nothing new or unique to any car that has "hype" surrounding it. Even as cookie cutter as they are, when they released the newest generation Mustang GT with the 5.0 V8, there were astronomical mark-ups. I'm not talking about special edition ones like the GT350, Bullitt, GT500, etc ... I'm talking the "regular" GT. Dealers will attempt to maximize profit off something brand new and in high demand. If demand wanes, then prices drop (unless they're completely daft). I remember the Terminators (03/04 Cobras) were marked up heftily as well for the 03 MY ... by 04 MY, they were going for thousands under invoice. Just go onto YouTube and read some of the comments of people who think the Type-S is going to light the world on fire and "take over the car industry" ... you'd think this thing was an M3-fighter.

To maintain mark-up prices, I'd agree. For, at the very least, the first few months there will absolutely be mark-ups. Dealers love taking advantage of the people who "gotta be the first" on the block to have the newest toy released. This practice is done by dealers across every make for a car marketed in the way the Type-S has been. Will these mark-ups be sustainable? I highly doubt it, at least not for very long unless somehow Acura is able to pull some magic and the thing runs like a raped ape despite being chunky and on the lower end of power compared to its competition. Then the market will correct itself as these things sit on lots for months and dealers start looking to move them to start making money. Obviously, the longer dullards are willing to pay sticker or higher, the longer dealers will take advantage of the demand.

Hell, come to think of it, even the damn Kia Stinger was marked up when it was first released. I remember people complaining about the insane mark-ups of $10k+ by greedy dealers. Now they're going for well under invoice. I just don't see how people think they're not going to be marking up the Type-S upon initial launch.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Not surprised but a bit disappointed. I wish you all the best.

BEAR-AvHistory

The 500HP S58 in the M3/4 is based on but not exactly the same as the 382HP B58 in the M340 & Z4 M40.

The both use the nominal 500CC per cylinder closed deck block. S58 has a slightly larger bore and shorter stroke (84.0/90.0) compared to the B58 (82.0/94.6). Displacement is down 5cc, but it's still an under square engine. ... 7,200 RPM redline, up from 7,000 on the B58.

S58 has two single-scroll turbos, as opposed to a single twin-scroll on the B58. (remember that debate). It also runs higher boost, higher fuel injection pressure & has more forged internals.

FWIW There are a number of moded B58's at 800+HP so there is a tremendous amount of growth available in both engines. Pretty good for a 3 liter straight six. As long as Honda builds a strong premium parts engine with an ECU that can be cracked there should be a lot of growth past 355HP.

fiatlux

More than markups, for a while my "local" Kia dealership wouldn't even let people sit in the car, let alone test drive it. They must have thought it was hand-built by Jesus himself.

Vicious Type S

Thanks, mind you, I'm in a small city about 1hr away from Toronto, so the numbers reflect that, but I only did it as insurance for an allocation, if the Type S ends up being a flop, I'll match literally next door n sign a M340i. =)

Edward'TLS

The TLX-S is not a limited production quantity car. So for those who don't have to be the first-on-the-block to own one, they can wait a bit. It's purely supply and demand economics. By the time the initial rush, if any, if over, then the selling price will become more realistic and more reasonable.

leomio85

Before purchasing the RDX, it was our first and likely last time in a Korean car dealership. I'd like to support the Mother Land, but I really didn't like the vibe from the Hyundai dealership. Apparently, this is a common complaint by most prospective buyers going to Hyundai and Kia dealers.

Again, it's not going to be a limited release, like Cadillac has announced with the Blackwing models (if they even release them ... this is, what, the 4th time they've said the vehicle is going to be released?), but at the same time, if demand isn't there for them, Acura isn't exactly going to be pumping them out, only to have them sit around on lots. It's undeniable that sales of the 2G TLX have been lackluster. Yes, it's supply and demand economics, but people seem to think Acura has an arbitrary number that they're simply going to produce and throw them out there and cross their fingers that they sell. If you're wondering why the Type-S had a delayed release compared to the standard TLX ... this is likely a big reason why - to gauge what kind of demand there would be for the vehicle to have a better projection of what kind of numbers to produce for the model.

BEAR-AvHistory

Dealership experience can be pretty random. Got the Genesis R-Spec coupe at a dealer near Charlotte NC & its serviced in Raleigh NC about 210 miles apart. Car is a number of years old now & have never had a dealership issue whether the selling dealer or servicing dealer. Also the car has turned out to be very good with just normal service & no warranty work.

The same dealer who services the Coupe also does the Mazda CX-5, multi-car operation. Again he was not the selling dealer but no issues with the service. Also no warranty work so far.

ACCURATEin

The wait is almost over.

I'm also still waiting to see a new tlx out in the wild.

fiatlux

I've already seen a half dozen new Defenders and even a new GV80, but still haven't seen a single new TLX yet...

At this point I'm probably going to see a new 2022 MDX first before I see a 2021 TLX on the road.

ACCURATEin

A few times i've thought to myself, they might actually sell more type Ss than non type Ss. lol

bilirubin

You might be right, production of the 2022 MDX has already started (while the TLX Type S hasn't)...

PhilB81

That’s just pathetic, I understand doing the next year model in the last quarter but we a barely into 2021 here... hopefully in 2022 they will release the 2025 models so you can return your 3 year lease in your “Model year”.

sonyfever

Interesting... I have seen two or three here, and found dark-color A-spec looks gorgeous from the rear. IMHO, it looks better (and more sporty) than the new 430 that I saw the other day.

Mak P

What's the chances Acura could make changes to the Type-S, numbers and features in this between time?. I mean that would make sense right to see the reaction good and bad and make some changes?

Beaverking

that’s what I’m hoping for. I’m hoping the estimate is low and it’s closer to 400hp and torque or I’m hoping they’ve read forums and compared the competition and squeeze more than 355 out of the engine. I think they should’ve done a 3.0l twin turbo from the get go instead of a single turbo.

leomio85

I'll say it again, but I don't think the engine is the choke point. I don't think the power numbers will be higher at actual launch because then a massive amount of testing and engineering time and money would have to be spent to ensure all the drivetrain components will reliably work with the added power.

As for TLXs in the wild, Long Island must be filled with Acura bootlickers. I've seen probably 8 or so of the new 2G TLXs driving around or parked at this point.

Tesla1856

1. Me either. 272hp for the TLX and 355hp for the Type-S should be fine (or at least adequate). .

2. At least on the 2.0T, what seems to need some work is throttle-by-wire, ECU/TCM programming, transmission ... stuff like that. All things that will carry over, so hopefully they can revisit/refine/tune them when they drop that bigger engine in it.

3. Here in Texas, still haven't seen one on the road or parked in a lot.

ELIN

This did not ring true in my area. I cross-shopped the TLX against the Stinger and KIA dealers wanted fairly close to MSRP. Truecar wasn't very helpful because inventory was super low. I even entertained buying a used Stinger GT1 or GT2 and even those were super hard to find! Talk about an "in demand" car!

Nedmundo

I saw a black one about a week ago, and I've seen two white ones since then. The second white one rolled by me in downtown Philly about an hour ago. I think it hides its size pretty well, and looks good on the road.

I think this is a good area for Acura, because along with the ubiquitous RDX, the 1G TLX and 2G ILX are everywhere.

dmski

Well, it's almost February and not a F*kn peep from Acura about the Type S which could be out as early as April. I know they're focusing on MDX launch now but is it so hard to multitask.... Drop some teasers every week on social media. How difficult is that? Anyone got some inside info yet? Nexx?