Official TLX Sales Thread
#561
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What is interesting is current 4 series (used to be 3 series coupes & convertibles) January 2019 sales were 2842 vs January 2017 sales of 1585. An increase of 1257 cars. This increase in the 4 series is more cars than the 3 series sold last month. 4 series has 2 more years in it before the new generation.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-06-2019 at 02:35 PM.
#562
Senior Moderator
That Advance SH-AWD deal is simply money wasted. Foregoing some of the bells and whistles, the base V6 is a far more attractive lease deal.
#563
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#564
Senior Moderator
No kidding. Betrays a marketing team that’s still out of touch. At this point, the TLX V6 probably appeals to those of us who want a new Accord V6 in the absence of an actual one.
#566
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Acura needs the new TLX like today. Sales numbers show that TLX isn't hot at all in this competitive market.
First sedan market is a tough one.
Second TLX interior is very outdated like Q50 and IS.
Japanese sedans are not attractive at the moment.
First sedan market is a tough one.
Second TLX interior is very outdated like Q50 and IS.
Japanese sedans are not attractive at the moment.
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Curious3GTL (03-04-2019)
#567
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
2219, down 20%
TLX sales are obviously winding down in prep for the new model, and in a challenging sedan market.
#568
Look up A4 sales @ 1436 and IS @1115 for the month, apsolutely brutal. Even if the next gen TLX is a homerun it will probably only sell 2-3k per month at the most. Sedan market is dead. They better have decent sales or Acura just might cut their sedans altogether.
#569
The IS is dead. The Q50 moved 2230 units.
#571
Pro
If I were running Acura:
1- Kill the RLX.
2- Make a great sedan - direct competition with Audi A4 (with 4 and 6 cylinders, FWD and AWD versions).
2.5 - I will force the designers of that sedan to drive it as a daily driver, to make sure they actually "live" with the car...
3- Make a sub-RDX crossover.
4- Further develop the RDX and MDX.
5- Re-design the infotainment system across the brand. Have the engineers look at the latest Audi touch and the VW interface, and clone it.
1- Kill the RLX.
2- Make a great sedan - direct competition with Audi A4 (with 4 and 6 cylinders, FWD and AWD versions).
2.5 - I will force the designers of that sedan to drive it as a daily driver, to make sure they actually "live" with the car...
3- Make a sub-RDX crossover.
4- Further develop the RDX and MDX.
5- Re-design the infotainment system across the brand. Have the engineers look at the latest Audi touch and the VW interface, and clone it.
#572
Some Guy Who Loves Cars
I was at a restaurant with my son last weekend with a view of a busy intersection. He loves cars, so I took the opportunity to teach him different vehicles types. Sedan, coupe, hatchback, wagon, SUV, truck, etc. By the way, us aficionados may know what each make/model is, but it's hard to explain the difference to a 7 year old between many cars nowadays. Take a Forester. He says wagon. I say fine. Or a Civic hatchback. He says coupe. I say fine. Then try classifying these crazy HR-V and C-HR type hatchback/coupe/micro SUV for a 7 year old...
Point is, based on observations that morning, most cars on the road are sedans. About half. It was hard to find coupes. A lot of wagons and crossover SUVs, maybe another quarter. A lot of pickups and full size SUVs, maybe another quarter. I don't think sedans are dead. I think there are so many options that none stand out anymore, except the Europeans which are simply gorgeous. Everyone sells a sedan with varying sizes. Toyota, Honda and Nissan of course, plus their luxury arms. Those must comprise at least 15 sedan models (Camry, Corolla, Avalon, ES, IS, GS, LS, Civic, Accord, ILX, TLX, RLX, Sentra, Altima, Maxima, G). Add BMW (indisputably the best sedans in the world), MB, Audi and VW and I count at least another 12 (Jetta, Passat, A3, A4, A6, A8, C, E, S, 3, 5, 7). I'm sure I'm missing some off the top of my head. Add Americans (Fusion, Taurus - both which may be dead soon - Malibu, SS, Regal, I don't even know what GM is making these days, Chrysler 200, 300) probably at least another 10. Add Volvo S60, S90, Subaru Impreza, Legacy and whatever Kia, Hyundai and Mitsubishi are making. There must be 50-some sedans you could buy new and drive off a dealer lot today. Those models are before getting into options/packages/engines. Those are new. Imagine the hundreds of discontinued used sedans still on the road. Pontiac, Oldmobile and Saturn. Saab. Mercury.
I doubt that would be the case if there weren't a market for sedans. Maybe for the money, more people want the space of a wagon or SUV than ever before. Maybe the sedan market is weaker and more competitive than it historically was, but I don't think it's dead.
Point is, based on observations that morning, most cars on the road are sedans. About half. It was hard to find coupes. A lot of wagons and crossover SUVs, maybe another quarter. A lot of pickups and full size SUVs, maybe another quarter. I don't think sedans are dead. I think there are so many options that none stand out anymore, except the Europeans which are simply gorgeous. Everyone sells a sedan with varying sizes. Toyota, Honda and Nissan of course, plus their luxury arms. Those must comprise at least 15 sedan models (Camry, Corolla, Avalon, ES, IS, GS, LS, Civic, Accord, ILX, TLX, RLX, Sentra, Altima, Maxima, G). Add BMW (indisputably the best sedans in the world), MB, Audi and VW and I count at least another 12 (Jetta, Passat, A3, A4, A6, A8, C, E, S, 3, 5, 7). I'm sure I'm missing some off the top of my head. Add Americans (Fusion, Taurus - both which may be dead soon - Malibu, SS, Regal, I don't even know what GM is making these days, Chrysler 200, 300) probably at least another 10. Add Volvo S60, S90, Subaru Impreza, Legacy and whatever Kia, Hyundai and Mitsubishi are making. There must be 50-some sedans you could buy new and drive off a dealer lot today. Those models are before getting into options/packages/engines. Those are new. Imagine the hundreds of discontinued used sedans still on the road. Pontiac, Oldmobile and Saturn. Saab. Mercury.
I doubt that would be the case if there weren't a market for sedans. Maybe for the money, more people want the space of a wagon or SUV than ever before. Maybe the sedan market is weaker and more competitive than it historically was, but I don't think it's dead.
Last edited by someguy11; 03-05-2019 at 07:09 AM.
#573
Burning Brakes
If I were running Acura:
1- Kill the RLX.
2- Make a great sedan - direct competition with Audi A4 (with 4 and 6 cylinders, FWD and AWD versions).
2.5 - I will force the designers of that sedan to drive it as a daily driver, to make sure they actually "live" with the car...
3- Make a sub-RDX crossover.
4- Further develop the RDX and MDX.
5- Re-design the infotainment system across the brand. Have the engineers look at the latest Audi touch and the VW interface, and clone it.
1- Kill the RLX.
2- Make a great sedan - direct competition with Audi A4 (with 4 and 6 cylinders, FWD and AWD versions).
2.5 - I will force the designers of that sedan to drive it as a daily driver, to make sure they actually "live" with the car...
3- Make a sub-RDX crossover.
4- Further develop the RDX and MDX.
5- Re-design the infotainment system across the brand. Have the engineers look at the latest Audi touch and the VW interface, and clone it.
And add these 2 goals:
1. Make the ILX better too (Mak P already said this).
2. Re-focus on engineering. Make Acura reliable again!!!
#574
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The RLX is at best a Zombie. They sold less then 2000 cars last year & 127 last month. Like Chevy's StingRay ZR-1 they have the NSX as a top of the line car. IMHO the Acura line can be considered a premium car line but they have no true luxury car to sell. So far whenever Acura pushes its prices up into the higher end premium car level of the luxury brands it gets killed.
IIRC every mass produced luxury car brand, Jaguar, Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, has $100,000+ cars topping the line. That's what makes them luxury car producers not 3 & 4 series level cars.
Even with the RLX @ starting at $55,000 Ford has F150 pickups @ $67,000.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 03-05-2019 at 11:26 AM.
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pyrodan007 (03-09-2019)
#575
Burning Brakes
I am in the kill the RLX line & make the TLX line the best premium car they can produce camp.
The RLX is at best a Zombie. They sold less then 2000 cars last year & 127 last month. Like Chevy's StingRay ZR-1 they have the NSX as a top of the line car. IMHO the Acura line can be considered a premium car line but they have no true luxury car to sell. So far whenever Acura pushes its prices up into the higher end premium car level of the luxury brands it gets killed.
IIRC every mass produced luxury car brand, Jaguar, Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, has $100,000+ cars topping the line. That's what makes them luxury car producers not 3 & 4 series level cars.
Even with the RLX @ starting at $55,000 Ford has F150 pickups @ $67,000.
The RLX is at best a Zombie. They sold less then 2000 cars last year & 127 last month. Like Chevy's StingRay ZR-1 they have the NSX as a top of the line car. IMHO the Acura line can be considered a premium car line but they have no true luxury car to sell. So far whenever Acura pushes its prices up into the higher end premium car level of the luxury brands it gets killed.
IIRC every mass produced luxury car brand, Jaguar, Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, has $100,000+ cars topping the line. That's what makes them luxury car producers not 3 & 4 series level cars.
Even with the RLX @ starting at $55,000 Ford has F150 pickups @ $67,000.
Why bring Chevy and Ford in here?
#576
I agree with everything except #1. The RLX needs to exist. Without it, the TLX would be the flagship sedan. A luxury brand cannot have a flagship sedan with starting price of $30K.
And add these 2 goals:
1. Make the ILX better too (Mak P already said this).
2. Re-focus on engineering. Make Acura reliable again!!!
And add these 2 goals:
1. Make the ILX better too (Mak P already said this).
2. Re-focus on engineering. Make Acura reliable again!!!
The RLX, if it exist they might just want to have it compete against a LS, why not increase the size and horsepower and actually turn it into a true luxury sedan. At-least out-do the damn Hyundai Genesis G90
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hadokenuh (03-05-2019)
#577
I am in the kill the RLX line & make the TLX line the best premium car they can produce camp.
The RLX is at best a Zombie. They sold less then 2000 cars last year & 127 last month. Like Chevy's StingRay ZR-1 they have the NSX as a top of the line car. IMHO the Acura line can be considered a premium car line but they have no true luxury car to sell. So far whenever Acura pushes its prices up into the higher end premium car level of the luxury brands it gets killed.
IIRC every mass produced luxury car brand, Jaguar, Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, has $100,000+ cars topping the line. That's what makes them luxury car producers not 3 & 4 series level cars.
Even with the RLX @ starting at $55,000 Ford has F150 pickups @ $67,000.
The RLX is at best a Zombie. They sold less then 2000 cars last year & 127 last month. Like Chevy's StingRay ZR-1 they have the NSX as a top of the line car. IMHO the Acura line can be considered a premium car line but they have no true luxury car to sell. So far whenever Acura pushes its prices up into the higher end premium car level of the luxury brands it gets killed.
IIRC every mass produced luxury car brand, Jaguar, Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, has $100,000+ cars topping the line. That's what makes them luxury car producers not 3 & 4 series level cars.
Even with the RLX @ starting at $55,000 Ford has F150 pickups @ $67,000.
The RLX is technologically very advanced and built quality is excellent, unfortunately it is brought down by extremely boring/derivative styling, lifeless driving experience and lack of trim segmentation...a FWD and an Hybrid....Acura ineptitude at its finest.
But they do need a flagship to be taken seriously (Ford and Chevy are not premium brands), just not the RLX.
Last edited by 4G-Lover; 03-05-2019 at 12:46 PM.
#578
+1
More competitive for sure, in decline yes but not dead.
One of my favorite sedan for the money, the Dodge Charger, clocked an impressive +20% in sales from 2017 to 2018 (and FCA slashed significantly fleet sales across the board so, no, they are not all rentals). People after all respond to a good value for the money proposition (and good discounts).
#579
Burning Brakes
#580
Some Guy Who Loves Cars
I agree, but I think this is easier said than done. There was another thread where someone astutely pointed out that Lexus and the Euros have groomed their buyers over the course of several years and decades to "graduate" to these cars. New grad? 3 series. Promotion? 5 series. Retirement gift? 7 series. Most people don't spend $100k on this caliber of car. Acura would need to do something they haven't done since... oh I'll guess about 2002... when the RL, LS 430, 5 series, A6 and E class could be roughly considered the same class. While all the others makers moved on to bigger and better flagships, the RL just sort of stayed it's course in the "I'm sort of a premium car, but neither really performance oriented nor oozing luxury. I guess I'm still a fully loaded Honda."
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BEAR-AvHistory (03-05-2019)
#581
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You don't get to be a luxury brand by saying you are a luxury brand. Its a perception thing. The Japanese out of the box did 3 cars, Toyota-Lexus, Nissan-Infiniti & Honda-Acura. The Lexus was clearly a 2/3 price Mercedes Benz knock-off. The Acura & Infiniti went with original designs.
Only Lexus made the grade because people recognized the "look" & Toyota steadily improved the product. Not sure what happened to Infiniti, thought they had a good product with the Q but it did not catch on. Honda went with a modified TL which boxed them in because they never made the investment in a stand alone flagship level car. It was just a big TL which was a big Honda Accord FWD V6.
Its 30 years later & the perception of what these cars are in fixed in the public's mind. Lexus is a $100,000 brand, Acura is a premium level bang for the buck brand & Infiniti is thrashing around as something in between.
Maybe instead of trying to turn 30 years of perception around it might be a good plan to play to their strength & be a premier Bang for the Buck brand with products that can compete head to head with the premium versions of the luxury brands at a better price point. They were very successful at that at one time but lost their way when they thought the 4G would give them parity with the luxury brands. That boat had already sailed 20 years before.
On sibling marketing Alfred Slone?sp of GM invented that with progression from Chevy to Cadillac. After WWII flatened Germany & they started to rebuild their auto industry they copied the GM model as did the Japanese in their home market.
Only Lexus made the grade because people recognized the "look" & Toyota steadily improved the product. Not sure what happened to Infiniti, thought they had a good product with the Q but it did not catch on. Honda went with a modified TL which boxed them in because they never made the investment in a stand alone flagship level car. It was just a big TL which was a big Honda Accord FWD V6.
Its 30 years later & the perception of what these cars are in fixed in the public's mind. Lexus is a $100,000 brand, Acura is a premium level bang for the buck brand & Infiniti is thrashing around as something in between.
Maybe instead of trying to turn 30 years of perception around it might be a good plan to play to their strength & be a premier Bang for the Buck brand with products that can compete head to head with the premium versions of the luxury brands at a better price point. They were very successful at that at one time but lost their way when they thought the 4G would give them parity with the luxury brands. That boat had already sailed 20 years before.
On sibling marketing Alfred Slone?sp of GM invented that with progression from Chevy to Cadillac. After WWII flatened Germany & they started to rebuild their auto industry they copied the GM model as did the Japanese in their home market.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 03-05-2019 at 05:11 PM.
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someguy11 (03-06-2019)
#582
You don't get to be a luxury brand by saying you are a luxury brand. Its a perception thing. The Japanese out of the box did 3 cars, Toyota-Lexus, Nissan-Infiniti & Honda-Acura. The Lexus was clearly a 2/3 price Mercedes Benz knock-off. The Acura & Infiniti went with original designs.
Only Lexus made the grade because people recognized the "look" & Toyota steadily improved the product. Not sure what happened to Infiniti, thought they had a good product with the Q but it did not catch on. Honda went with a modified TL which boxed them in because they never made the investment in a stand alone flagship level car. It was just a big TL which was a big Honda Accord FWD V6.
Its 30 years later & the perception of what these cars are in fixed in the public's mind. Lexus is a $100,000 brand, Acura is a premium level bang for the buck brand & Infiniti is thrashing around as something in between.
Maybe instead of trying to turn 30 years of perception around it might be a good plan to play to their strength & be a premier Bang for the Buck brand with products that can compete head to head with the premium versions of the luxury brands at a better price point. They were very successful at that at one time but lost their way when they thought the 4G would give them parity with the luxury brands. That boat had already sailed 20 years before.
On sibling marketing Alfred Slone?sp of GM invented that with progression from Chevy to Cadillac. After WWII flatened Germany & they started to rebuild their auto industry they copied the GM model as did the Japanese in their home market.
Only Lexus made the grade because people recognized the "look" & Toyota steadily improved the product. Not sure what happened to Infiniti, thought they had a good product with the Q but it did not catch on. Honda went with a modified TL which boxed them in because they never made the investment in a stand alone flagship level car. It was just a big TL which was a big Honda Accord FWD V6.
Its 30 years later & the perception of what these cars are in fixed in the public's mind. Lexus is a $100,000 brand, Acura is a premium level bang for the buck brand & Infiniti is thrashing around as something in between.
Maybe instead of trying to turn 30 years of perception around it might be a good plan to play to their strength & be a premier Bang for the Buck brand with products that can compete head to head with the premium versions of the luxury brands at a better price point. They were very successful at that at one time but lost their way when they thought the 4G would give them parity with the luxury brands. That boat had already sailed 20 years before.
On sibling marketing Alfred Slone?sp of GM invented that with progression from Chevy to Cadillac. After WWII flatened Germany & they started to rebuild their auto industry they copied the GM model as did the Japanese in their home market.
Consistency...this is what is needed for a luxury brand and this is exactly what Acura and Infiniti lack. Lexus is no perfect but it did execute better (let's not forget the dealer experience where Lexus is head and shoulder above anybody).
Early generation Infiniti were goofy looking cars, the brand made a clear breakthrough in the early 2000s with the G and the renewed Q only to basically give up again. Acura, same problem...the second generation RL and the 4G were a move in the right direction but instead of improving on that and correct mistakes, they raised a white flag after few years. They should learn from the Koreans.
Jaguar is a good example of a brand that albeit not being very successful (sales volume) get the luxury car brand concept right.
Last edited by 4G-Lover; 03-05-2019 at 05:41 PM.
#583
Suzuka Master
I agree with everything except #1. The RLX needs to exist. Without it, the TLX would be the flagship sedan. A luxury brand cannot have a flagship sedan with starting price of $30K.
And add these 2 goals:
1. Make the ILX better too (Mak P already said this).
2. Re-focus on engineering. Make Acura reliable again!!!
And add these 2 goals:
1. Make the ILX better too (Mak P already said this).
2. Re-focus on engineering. Make Acura reliable again!!!
#584
Suzuka Master
I am in the kill the RLX line & make the TLX line the best premium car they can produce camp.
The RLX is at best a Zombie. They sold less then 2000 cars last year & 127 last month. Like Chevy's StingRay ZR-1 they have the NSX as a top of the line car. IMHO the Acura line can be considered a premium car line but they have no true luxury car to sell. So far whenever Acura pushes its prices up into the higher end premium car level of the luxury brands it gets killed.
IIRC every mass produced luxury car brand, Jaguar, Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, has $100,000+ cars topping the line. That's what makes them luxury car producers not 3 & 4 series level cars.
Even with the RLX @ starting at $55,000 Ford has F150 pickups @ $67,000.
The RLX is at best a Zombie. They sold less then 2000 cars last year & 127 last month. Like Chevy's StingRay ZR-1 they have the NSX as a top of the line car. IMHO the Acura line can be considered a premium car line but they have no true luxury car to sell. So far whenever Acura pushes its prices up into the higher end premium car level of the luxury brands it gets killed.
IIRC every mass produced luxury car brand, Jaguar, Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, has $100,000+ cars topping the line. That's what makes them luxury car producers not 3 & 4 series level cars.
Even with the RLX @ starting at $55,000 Ford has F150 pickups @ $67,000.
#585
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Yawwwwwwwwn. Acura’s going to do, what they are going to do. It’s working in SUV land as they are at the top of the game. Sedans, not so much. We’ll see what happens with the next sedan releases...
#586
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In SUV sales the X3 did 61K & the X5 45K. They also did 29K of the small X1 SUV.
Bottom line for Acura is yes the SUV sales are good but not outstanding compared some non SUV sedan based companies. Based on that don't know how well they can do as an SUV company without a good sedan in the mix. The 2G TLX is an important car for them.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 03-06-2019 at 08:41 AM.
#587
Some Guy Who Loves Cars
They do sell a good number like 50K MDX last year. That said they outsold the 46K BMW 5 series sedan by only 4K units, but the RDX sales were 10K less then the 75K 3/4 series sedans sold. The TLX only added 30K units to the mix.
In SUV sales the X3 did 61K & the X5 45K. They also did 29K of the small X1 SUV.
Bottom line for Acura is yes the SUV sales are good but not outstanding compared some non SUV sedan based companies. Based on that don't know how well they can do as an SUV company without a good sedan in the mix. The 2G TLX is an important car for them.
In SUV sales the X3 did 61K & the X5 45K. They also did 29K of the small X1 SUV.
Bottom line for Acura is yes the SUV sales are good but not outstanding compared some non SUV sedan based companies. Based on that don't know how well they can do as an SUV company without a good sedan in the mix. The 2G TLX is an important car for them.
The SUV chat inspired me to do a little analysis related to something I think I said here previously (if not this thread, must have been elsewhere). The line between Acura and Honda has been blurred if not erased. Someone at Honda must be okay with this. Not only are Acura sedans and SUVs are losing ground to the likes of BMW as Bear mentioned, but I think Honda is cannibalizing Acura. A base TLX is like an Accord EX-L and an Advance is like a Touring (except the AWD, which is why I went with the TLX).
Averaging the increase in YOY sales, Pilot sales are growing by 10% every year while the MDX is under 2%. Not only are there between 2-3 Pilots sold for every MDX, the rates at which they are selling are diverging. Hard to claim Acura is the top of the SUV game. I didn't check out the RDX, but someone with more time is welcome to. I'm guessing the CR-V wipes the floor with the RDX. I just checked and yes, 379k CR-Vs sold to 63.5k RDXs in 2018.
I did the same for the Accord versus the summation of the TL/TSX/TLX each year for grins and it looks even worse for BOTH Acura and Honda sedans in general.
I agree with Bear. The 2nd gen TLX is a critical car for this company. Any VP or senior management not aware of this data should not have their job.
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Curious3GTL (03-07-2019)
#588
I think Ford is going the wrong direction with that decision. As a matter of fact, I happen to believe that the days of 2007-08 and 2011-12 when gas was over $4 (or higher) in some places will return. People were trading in their trucks and SUVs furiously and dealers couldn't sell them. It's all cyclical. Anyone like Ford putting all their eggs in the SUV basket is as shortsighted as GM killing the EV1.
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someguy11 (03-06-2019)
#589
Many good points here and your prior post too. I think Acura can be a great bang for the buck alternative to the more pricey/plush premium sedans with a single TLX. An affordable base package, then tech and advance packages, and finally a loaded ASPEC performance model. I think people will look past the size of the car if it has a long list of features, performs well, is reliable, and costs less than the Euros. I agree that NO car company should try to survive on just SUVs. I think Ford is going the wrong direction with that decision. As a matter of fact, I happen to believe that the days of 2007-08 and 2011-12 when gas was over $4 (or higher) in some places will return. People were trading in their trucks and SUVs furiously and dealers couldn't sell them. It's all cyclical. Anyone like Ford putting all their eggs in the SUV basket is as shortsighted as GM killing the EV1.
The SUV chat inspired me to do a little analysis related to something I think I said here previously (if not this thread, must have been elsewhere). The line between Acura and Honda has been blurred if not erased. Someone at Honda must be okay with this. Not only are Acura sedans and SUVs are losing ground to the likes of BMW as Bear mentioned, but I think Honda is cannibalizing Acura. A base TLX is like an Accord EX-L and an Advance is like a Touring (except the AWD, which is why I went with the TLX).
Averaging the increase in YOY sales, Pilot sales are growing by 10% every year while the MDX is under 2%. Not only are there between 2-3 Pilots sold for every MDX, the rates at which they are selling are diverging. Hard to claim Acura is the top of the SUV game. I didn't check out the RDX, but someone with more time is welcome to. I'm guessing the CR-V wipes the floor with the RDX. I just checked and yes, 379k CR-Vs sold to 63.5k RDXs in 2018.
I did the same for the Accord versus the summation of the TL/TSX/TLX each year for grins and it looks even worse for BOTH Acura and Honda sedans in general.
I agree with Bear. The 2nd gen TLX is a critical car for this company. Any VP or senior management not aware of this data should not have their job.
The SUV chat inspired me to do a little analysis related to something I think I said here previously (if not this thread, must have been elsewhere). The line between Acura and Honda has been blurred if not erased. Someone at Honda must be okay with this. Not only are Acura sedans and SUVs are losing ground to the likes of BMW as Bear mentioned, but I think Honda is cannibalizing Acura. A base TLX is like an Accord EX-L and an Advance is like a Touring (except the AWD, which is why I went with the TLX).
Averaging the increase in YOY sales, Pilot sales are growing by 10% every year while the MDX is under 2%. Not only are there between 2-3 Pilots sold for every MDX, the rates at which they are selling are diverging. Hard to claim Acura is the top of the SUV game. I didn't check out the RDX, but someone with more time is welcome to. I'm guessing the CR-V wipes the floor with the RDX. I just checked and yes, 379k CR-Vs sold to 63.5k RDXs in 2018.
I did the same for the Accord versus the summation of the TL/TSX/TLX each year for grins and it looks even worse for BOTH Acura and Honda sedans in general.
I agree with Bear. The 2nd gen TLX is a critical car for this company. Any VP or senior management not aware of this data should not have their job.
#590
Moderator
The line between Acura and Honda has been blurred if not erased. Someone at Honda must be okay with this. Not only are Acura sedans and SUVs are losing ground to the likes of BMW as Bear mentioned, but I think Honda is cannibalizing Acura. A base TLX is like an Accord EX-L and an Advance is like a Touring (except the AWD, which is why I went with the TLX).
Still - your point is well taken. It's such a hyper competitive market that Honda simply has to load up the Accord with luxury type features if they want to compete.
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#591
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#592
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Thread Starter
I test drove a manual Accord 2.0T recently. That trim has similar features as my A-Spec other than AWD and the newish Honda single screen infotainment system. And did I say it’s a manual? The competition for my next daily driver is heating up, as is my car ADD.
In any case, the only real line between Honda and Acura at this point is SH-AWD and quality of interior materials. I’d be quite happy in a plain ol’ Honda today.
In any case, the only real line between Honda and Acura at this point is SH-AWD and quality of interior materials. I’d be quite happy in a plain ol’ Honda today.
Last edited by neuronbob; 03-08-2019 at 08:55 PM.
#593
Senior Moderator
Honestly, I find the quality levels in the new Accord a little disconcerting and wonder how well they'll hold up over time. Though nowhere near as bad as Nissan products (the 18 Rogue SV I rented during my recent vacation was a complete dumpster fire), it does make me wonder where else they may have cut corners.
Edit: Interestingly enough, I just came across an email from my local dealer detailing a fairly attractive lease deal on a 19 LX. Not in love with the new styling but, I've heard that the new base powertrain is pretty good. (CVT notwithstanding).
Edit: Interestingly enough, I just came across an email from my local dealer detailing a fairly attractive lease deal on a 19 LX. Not in love with the new styling but, I've heard that the new base powertrain is pretty good. (CVT notwithstanding).
Last edited by F23A4; 03-10-2019 at 08:12 AM.
#597
Racer
#598
Some Guy Who Loves Cars
To put this in perspective, Google says there are about 250 Acura dealers in the US. If I did the math right, initial 2015 TLX sales were clipping at around 15 per month per dealer - don’t know if that’s weak or strong compared to other premium sedans. It sounds respectable to me. Last month, they were down to about 8 per month per dealer. Now... I see RDX sales are strong and the MDX always moves a lot of units, but the first gen TLX has clearly run its course. If I were a dealership owner, I would be clamoring for the redesign to get people in the doors and buying sedans again. Halving sales of the de facto flagship sedan for the brand (the RLX should be but is dead) can’t be good for business. The TLX is supposed to be a mainstay for Acura.
I will say, though, that this should be promising to Hondaficionados. Acura could have released the TLX on their normal five year cycle, probably before it was ready for release, just to drive up sales figures again. But they didn’t. They’re riding the lame horse first gen while they get the second gen right. I think this shows they acknowledge the first gen wasn’t ready to be released (but was anyway), it was plagued with problems both hardware and software, it over promised and under delivered in driving experience, it disappointed journalists (the tranny and infotainment specifically got hammered) and it drove many owners - and potential buyers - away from Acura, some Honda/Acura loyalists (likely including me) for good. Sure, many forum users are completely satisfied with their TLXs, had no issues and the first gen sold well enough, but this car was not what Acura wanted or planned. Acura is still perfecting the second gen and these sales figures show they learned their lesson. I think they understand this release is critical to their success (and existence) as a sedan maker. They chose to manage through one more year of poor sales pain over instant gratification to make the TLX a better car.
Last edited by someguy11; 05-04-2019 at 09:00 AM.
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