If the ROI was not there, they would axe the 2nd Gen TLX, but obviously they are going ahead. I'm sure their goal will not be 60-70k units per year. If it is they need to be in a different business.

 

You're forgetting that the TLX replaced both the TL and TSX, so expecting to sell 60,000 a year probably wasn't a crazy unrealistic goal to Acura.

From 2009-2013, the 4G TL averaged 32,000 a year. From 2009-2013, the 2G TSX averaged almost 28,300. Combined that put annual sales a tad bit over 60,000 a year. I'm sure Acura believed the TLX to be a big improvement over the 4G TL. In some ways it was. In other ways, it wasn't.

Keeping the above in mind, would expectations of selling 35,000 to 40,000 V6 TLX's and 25,000 to 30,000 I4 TLX's be crazy?

 

Great point. I've thought this to myself too. Technology is changing too fast and Americans have too short an attention span for the traditional release. Accord is a good example of keeping it fresh. Release, 3 years with few changes, refresh, 2 years, then redesign. Keep it moving. People get bored with the same looks and features. The 9G in particular opened my eyes to this practice. The 13-15 was a nice car, a little plain perhaps, change a package or taillight here and there, then the 16 came along. Same car, same interior, different front and rear ends. I knew several people who swooned over the 16 Touring. It honestly looked like a Mercedes Benz. Boost sales for a couple years and on to the 10G. I know it is polarizing, but I happen to love it and think it looks like an A7. The TLX came out and stayed the same for three straight years. Who would come buy a 17 that is essentially the same as the 15??

Digging into sales figures a bit more, it gets hard to align years to models because cars come out the fall of the year prior to the model. However, this does tell several stories.
-RL Gen 2 was perhaps the most advanced car Acura made, but it was a flop. So is the RLX. These are dead fish in a large sea. The ILX, as well, can't really be worth making.
-Acura had a golden age of 99-08 driven by 2G and 3G TL and 1G TSX. They were selling a ton of sedans.
-1G TLX is only selling a third of 3G TL + 1G TSX and half of 4G TL + 2G TSX. Just like AZuser said. That's pretty terrible.
-I have no doubt some of this chart is due to the SUV/CUV craze and the MDX cannibalizing Acura sales.

 

 

For them to include RL in naming, are they still selling the old model as new?! TL is not added to the TLX naming

 

Keep in mind, the Accord is a great driving car too. I think the Accord has been on Car and Driver's 10 Best list for over two decades. People thought the early TL's and TSX's were great driving cars, though only the SH-AWD 4G. The automotive press does no say the same things - great handling - about the 1G TLX, not even close. The do say 'great driving' about Audi, BMW and now the new Genesis G70. Building a winner requires great design and great handling, and it takes time to gain that reputation among buyers. Acura has done a good job and had great success with their SUV's, we will get a look at their sedan skills in two weeks and some driving reviews this fall. Hope they do well, would like to purchase another sedan from them.

 

Sedan sales industry wide are down. Everyone wants an SUV. So you have to take that into account. It's the current trend. It was midsize trucks in the mid 90's, then full size SUV's early 2000's (until fuel prices spiked lol) everyone had to have an Excursion or Suburban. Sedans will come back, but Ford is strongly betting against that with their abandoning anything non-SUV or Mustang.

Hopefully Acura keeps at it. The Accord and Camry own the sedan market. I would be curious to see the Toyota/Lexus chart similar to what @someguy11 posted above. See if their sedan sales are also trending south at a similar pace. Are overall sales up across the brand but just shifting to SUVs or is the brand struggling as well?

HMC has a quality control problem they are facing, if they don't shape up they will lose their reputation quickly. It has been going on for several years now and is really starting to build. I never had the problems like I have had with the 2008 and newer Honda and Acura products. VCM has ruined their engines, and their paint has been problematic, transmission issues on the Odyssey and others (4g TL Torque converters) have been issues. They gotta turn this ship around or keep slipping away.

Currently I don't see too much that excites me with on the Acura showroom floor. With the exception of the NSX they had out for a bit I find myself failing to salivate over anything. Hoping this Type S rebirth is a sign they are swinging back to the performance luxury side of the spectrum again and are no longer apparently trying to compete with Buick.

 

Not sure I would agree they have a systemic quality issue, they still make some of the most reliable cars on the road. I have owned numerous Acura’s and all have been very reliable. I have had some normal minor issues and I missed the worst of the TLX tranny issues, but do believe this ZF is crap and ruins any hint at a sporty ride.

 

I actually salute Acura for selling close to 15,000 units YTD. The car had many issues from the start and did not go very well and it's almost 5 years old model. No turbo, outdated infotainment, and some reliability issue...yet it beats Audi A4 Well done Acura!
With the new Type S, it will beat MB C300!

 

Even if Audi has gotten much more reliable than their old reputation, when you do have a problem, the cost of repairs is crazy high! My (anecdotal) experience with VWs including relatives who've owned various models was that we all had more problems than we want to have, issues that we did not experience with brands like Toyota or Honda in the past. I expect an Audi to have a similar amount of problems as VW, except the repairs will cost more $$$.

 

 

As I see it, the new Passport took some sales away from RDX and MDX (but not much from CRV/ Pilot). The RLX is in its death spiral. TLX / ILX still have steam (barely).

 

They can't give the RLX's away. Saw a 2018 Sport Hybrid Advance with 800 miles going for $45k on Autotrader.

 

At $45k, I would be interested if buying in that segment.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/share/236919900

 

Honestly I think if they took my TLX and leave me debt free I would lease the RLX Sport Hybrid as they are usually down around $50K

 

I wonder if they increase the tlx size and price, get rid of the rlx, and improve the ilx. I'm interested in how a new ilx will look

 

From what I've gathered, it appears as though they're going to do just as you've suggested. I too would be interested in a 2G ILX that had a much needed boost in power.

 

2020 will be a huge year for Acura. The new MDX and TLX will be out. RDX is already a huge hit.

In 2021, we will get a new ILX based on what Acura said a few weeks ago. They want to have 2 sedans and 2 suvs. I was really hoping to see the CDX in the North American
market.

 

I am not a SUV person, but 2 SUVs is not enough in today’s market. They need HRV size entry at least.

 

Unfortunately the brand has no interest in bringing the CDX to market here in the states.

 

Maybe there will be a 3rd if they decide to bring back the ZDX coupey-crossover at some point. If Audi, BMW, Mercedes, and Land Rover all have some it only stands to reason that there exists a viable market for it.

 

Just arrived got the first two in New Orleans pmc edition

Just arrived got the first two in New Orleans if your buying a tlx this is the one to buy aspec shawd pmc edition

 

Quote:

The price is to high because they have a very nice car they can't sell in any material volume. If you can't sell what is a good car for the MSRP less normal discounts & incentives its incorrectly priced. A car is only worth what people will pay for it.



Acura says the NSX is worth $160/170K & with $30,000 discounts they are selling as low as 15 a month. Everybody loves the car but almost nobody will pay $140,000 for one.


The TL 3G was in the $31/$36K price range give or take a few thousand dollars & they could sell 72,000 a year. They were a true value leader.



They pushed the price up with the 4G trying to look like a Tier I car but screwed the pooch with both a price increase & an unattractive car that was universally panned for looks in the motoring press. They came out with the G1 TLX again at the higher end of the price range for the upper versions of the car. Not many buyers.


Bottom line is the buying public just does not see the TLX in the range they have it priced at. They will take a low end Tier I brand with less options before paying the TLX price premium over an Accord.

 

Is not that simple, especially in the premium space...sometimes a car does not sell well for different reasons.

You cannot compare volumes for the 3G and volumes for the TLX and saying "it's not selling because of wrong pricing"...different era, no SUV mania, Acura is not seen as an "aspirational brand" anymore etc...

By your logic the current 3 Series is priced wrongly because is selling way less than the 3 Series used to sell in the past....nonsense.

Hyundai could make the exact same car as the S Class and it would not sell a fraction of the number of actual S Class sold at similar prices....regardless of how good the car is.

I do happen to think that the TLX has always been overpriced for what it is but you cannot make a general rule.

 

To be fair, I'm not sure Acura was ever an aspirational brand except for some low-expectations-in-life chumps.

 

Ba Ha Ha! ^

 

Used TLX seem like great deals for everyday drivers.

Similarly priced to Accord, slightly more comfy, etc.

They seem to have terrible resale though.

$32k new, $19k three years old. About 13% depreciation every year.

In contrast my Civic Si sold for $24k, and is now on sale at the dealer i traded in for $22k. 4.5% depreciation for every year old.

Hope I never have to trade my TLX in LOL. Will be worth $10

 

Definitely it had more "street creed" back then....

 

The price of the current car is actually a decent value, but in 15 years many things have changed. First the “entry luxury” market has so many competitors in it that were not there 15 years ago. Even the Germans offer lower models now to grab a piece of that market. Then you had the mainstream models stepping up with larger cars with better equipment. Add in Kia / Hyundai / Genesis and you have so many great choices that just did not exist 15 years ago. Add also the changing demographics such as Millennials not buying as many cars and not caring about upscale models compared to the 90s and early 2000s where luxury cars were status whether you could afford it or not.

Acura lost followers with the 4G TL, basically 5 years of fugly look and colors that lost some customers forever. Acura lost its edge as it knee jerked after the 4G and took the more conservative path on the TLX. They also have lacked a true luxury model that enticed anyone into the showrooms.

 

This

The 4G may have been "ugly" so some but at least it was going in the right direction (more luxurious than the previous car, real Torque Vectoring AWD and over 300 HP was serious stuff over 10 years ago). Acura got so scared after the 4G that they designed more most inoffensive, vanilla looking car they could possibly come up with and, not happy with just that, they downgraded its luxury, performance and mechanical cachet...that is how you got the TLX.

 

Agree the market has changed. TL used to outsell all others in whatever group it was assigned to some months by a significant margin. Now its more likely to be found near or at the bottom of its group.

My numbers thing is pulling errors but it would be interesting to see a 2005 or 2006 listing for the group & the current listing for the same cars to see what shifts have taken place without any new entries. Still think the car is to expensive at the mid upper to top end forcing it to compete heads up with cars that have better name recognition & status.

As for BMW agree the overall numbers are down due to competition & an expanded market but to do a comparison with the past the 3 & 4 series should be combined to be comparable with the cars that were 3 series till the 4 series Coupe/Converts were split off inMay 2015.

 

Luxury is all a matter of perception as well and where you previously came from. I've never own any Acura products before my TLX, so I never had a history like many members on this forum. Before the TLX, I had a WRX that hands down, was much more fun to drive than the TLX. But the cabin was noisy on the highway, the suspension got tiring on longer drives and the hard plastics everywhere did nothing but scream plebeian. I was getting older as well, and wanted something nicer without breaking the budget. The TLX fitted the bill nicely. The TLX is no sport sedan, but for a family car, it handles well enough with SH-AWD. So yeah, coming from a WRX, the TLX is absolutely luxurious for me. Maybe not for someone coming from a E-Class or 5 Series. At least Acura is moving in the right direction with the RDX. If only they can fix the god-awful bugs in the infotainment system.

 

I went WRX to TSX to TLX. I know what you mean about the WRX. Fun car to drive, fast, handled on rails, obviously all about the engine and drivetrain... and absent any refinement. Rough ride pounded my back, driving stick in traffic sucked and the squeaky plastic dash got old. I agree with your point about luxury being relative when I traded in for my TSX. It was peppy (not powerful), handled on rails and had the quality/refinement my WRX lacked - leather, quiet, quality - that was a good all around car. Then I "upgraded" to a TLX which was a disaster for me well documented on this forum.

Did you drive anything but a TLX when upgrading from WRX? Like an 18+ Accord? Because that's not even a luxury car and it's getting rave reviews compared to the TLX in performance and refinement. So yeah, a TLX may appear luxurious beside a WRX, but the group here is trying to say that there are so many others in this space (CTS, ES, GS, E, 3, or A4) that make a TLX feel more like a WRX than a direct competitor.

 

Yup, drove a IS350 that felt too small and claustrophobic, and a 3 series that was a bit out of my price range at the time. Living in the Canadian Prairies where winters can be brutal, I didn't consider the Accord at all since I wanted AWD. In the end, my sales guy at Acura offered me a great deal on a clearance model having grabbed one of the last 2016s on the lot and gave me pretty good trade in value for my WRX (damn Subarus hold their value!). Honestly, with two young kids, I'm not nearly aggressive as I used to be and the space in the TLX is decent for a family of four. The transmission can be sluggish at times, but it's pretty rare these days that I even notice it. I do want some more performance for my next vehicle because when my kids are not in the car, I do like to have some fun on occasion. Actually looking at the Stinger when my lease is done. $50k fully loaded, rear-bias drivetrain and practical liftback. Although I am interested to see what Acura does with the Type-S as well.

 

Jon Ikeda spoke with automotive news, he talked about position Acura as a performance brand through marketing etc... and that Acura has a goal have selling 200,000+ units in the next few years under his strategy.

 

Man, they need to stop with the "performance through marketing" and stick with "performance through engineering". . . I don't want to hear about performance from them with 20+ hp! etc. . .. I want to drive something with engineering that puts them on the map again.

 

Well said!

At this point, we see how Infiniti screwed up by mixing performance and luxury and now they are brand that can’t sell their cars. As a result, Infiniti sells either through fleet or massive incentives.

Acura should focus on performance by engineering! That’s all. Deliver better cars than the RDX. That’s success.

 

I have a 2018 TLX "Technology Package" 3.5L V6 FWD "P-AWS" and I had (rental) an Audi A6 "S-Line" 2.0T for a few weeks. I was actually happy to turn in the Audi and get back in my TLX. I mean, the Audi would be nice if you had a personal driver and sat in the back, but, as the driver of the car, I preferred the TLX in almost every way (this was greatly exacerbated by the fact that the A6 was black w/non-perforated black leather seats and it was in the middle of a hot summer season and the sun felt like you were facing an open hot oven - so it was literally painful to get into the Audi if it had been parked outside mid-day).

 

They haven't sold 200,000+ units in U.S. since 2006 (sold 201,223 units) when their market share was 1.22%.

The only other year they sold 200,000+ units in U.S. was in 2005 (209,610).

This was when Acura was at their peak.

They sold 158,934 units in U.S. in 2018 and had 0.92% market share.

2017 = 154,602 and 0.90% market share
2016 = 161,360 and 0.92%
2015 = 177,165 and 1.01%
2014 = 167,843 and 1.02%
2013 = 165,436 and 1.06%
2012 = 156,216 and 1.08%
2011 = 123,299 and 0.96%
2010 = 133,606 and 1.15%

200,000+ units in the next few years? I'll believe it when I see it.

If they bring the CDX to the U.S., then maybe. And that's if they don't cannibalize RDX sales.

 

If they want to sell more than 200K, they need focus less on sedans/NSX, and more on North America's obsession with CUVs. As it stands, they currently have more cars than CUVs in their lineup, and three of those four cars, nobody is giving a shit about. They still have room to slot something below the RDX and above the MDX, and those CUVs need to come sooner than later.