Official TLX Sales Thread
#642
From 2009-2013, the 4G TL averaged 32,000 a year. From 2009-2013, the 2G TSX averaged almost 28,300. Combined that put annual sales a tad bit over 60,000 a year. I'm sure Acura believed the TLX to be a big improvement over the 4G TL. In some ways it was. In other ways, it wasn't.
Keeping the above in mind, would expectations of selling 35,000 to 40,000 V6 TLX's and 25,000 to 30,000 I4 TLX's be crazy?
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#643
Digging into sales figures a bit more, it gets hard to align years to models because cars come out the fall of the year prior to the model. However, this does tell several stories.
-RL Gen 2 was perhaps the most advanced car Acura made, but it was a flop. So is the RLX. These are dead fish in a large sea. The ILX, as well, can't really be worth making.
-Acura had a golden age of 99-08 driven by 2G and 3G TL and 1G TSX. They were selling a ton of sedans.
-1G TLX is only selling a third of 3G TL + 1G TSX and half of 4G TL + 2G TSX. Just like AZuser said. That's pretty terrible.
-I have no doubt some of this chart is due to the SUV/CUV craze and the MDX cannibalizing Acura sales.
Last edited by someguy11; 07-08-2019 at 09:41 AM.
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hadokenuh (07-10-2019)
#646
Keep in mind, the Accord is a great driving car too. I think the Accord has been on Car and Driver's 10 Best list for over two decades. People thought the early TL's and TSX's were great driving cars, though only the SH-AWD 4G. The automotive press does no say the same things - great handling - about the 1G TLX, not even close. The do say 'great driving' about Audi, BMW and now the new Genesis G70. Building a winner requires great design and great handling, and it takes time to gain that reputation among buyers. Acura has done a good job and had great success with their SUV's, we will get a look at their sedan skills in two weeks and some driving reviews this fall. Hope they do well, would like to purchase another sedan from them.
#647
Sedan sales industry wide are down. Everyone wants an SUV. So you have to take that into account. It's the current trend. It was midsize trucks in the mid 90's, then full size SUV's early 2000's (until fuel prices spiked lol) everyone had to have an Excursion or Suburban. Sedans will come back, but Ford is strongly betting against that with their abandoning anything non-SUV or Mustang.
Hopefully Acura keeps at it. The Accord and Camry own the sedan market. I would be curious to see the Toyota/Lexus chart similar to what @someguy11 posted above. See if their sedan sales are also trending south at a similar pace. Are overall sales up across the brand but just shifting to SUVs or is the brand struggling as well?
HMC has a quality control problem they are facing, if they don't shape up they will lose their reputation quickly. It has been going on for several years now and is really starting to build. I never had the problems like I have had with the 2008 and newer Honda and Acura products. VCM has ruined their engines, and their paint has been problematic, transmission issues on the Odyssey and others (4g TL Torque converters) have been issues. They gotta turn this ship around or keep slipping away.
Currently I don't see too much that excites me with on the Acura showroom floor. With the exception of the NSX they had out for a bit I find myself failing to salivate over anything. Hoping this Type S rebirth is a sign they are swinging back to the performance luxury side of the spectrum again and are no longer apparently trying to compete with Buick.
Hopefully Acura keeps at it. The Accord and Camry own the sedan market. I would be curious to see the Toyota/Lexus chart similar to what @someguy11 posted above. See if their sedan sales are also trending south at a similar pace. Are overall sales up across the brand but just shifting to SUVs or is the brand struggling as well?
HMC has a quality control problem they are facing, if they don't shape up they will lose their reputation quickly. It has been going on for several years now and is really starting to build. I never had the problems like I have had with the 2008 and newer Honda and Acura products. VCM has ruined their engines, and their paint has been problematic, transmission issues on the Odyssey and others (4g TL Torque converters) have been issues. They gotta turn this ship around or keep slipping away.
Currently I don't see too much that excites me with on the Acura showroom floor. With the exception of the NSX they had out for a bit I find myself failing to salivate over anything. Hoping this Type S rebirth is a sign they are swinging back to the performance luxury side of the spectrum again and are no longer apparently trying to compete with Buick.
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someguy11 (08-07-2019)
#648
HMC has a quality control problem they are facing, if they don't shape up they will lose their reputation quickly. It has been going on for several years now and is really starting to build. I never had the problems like I have had with the 2008 and newer Honda and Acura products. VCM has ruined their engines, and their paint has been problematic, transmission issues on the Odyssey and others (4g TL Torque converters) have been issues. They gotta turn this ship around or keep slipping away.
.
#649
I actually salute Acura for selling close to 15,000 units YTD. The car had many issues from the start and did not go very well and it's almost 5 years old model. No turbo, outdated infotainment, and some reliability issue...yet it beats Audi A4 Well done Acura!
With the new Type S, it will beat MB C300!
With the new Type S, it will beat MB C300!
#650
Thanks. I hope your right but I've had my current Acura 17 years and other than oil changes and a 70,000 mile checkup I've done squat for maintenance. I did have the transmission replaced under recall. I had my Civic for a decade - no recalls so even less time for service. I really like a lot about the Audi but don't know if I feel that confident until people who've had the A4 a decade can say it is that reliable. It may very well be but I don't know if there is enough evidence for that amount of time to say that yet.
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KeithL (08-08-2019)
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Comfy (09-06-2019)
#654
At $45k, I would be interested if buying in that segment.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/share/236919900
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/share/236919900
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Beached (09-16-2019)
#657
From what I've gathered, it appears as though they're going to do just as you've suggested. I too would be interested in a 2G ILX that had a much needed boost in power.
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Beached (09-16-2019)
#658
In 2021, we will get a new ILX based on what Acura said a few weeks ago. They want to have 2 sedans and 2 suvs. I was really hoping to see the CDX in the North American
market.
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Beached (09-16-2019)
#659
2020 will be a huge year for Acura. The new MDX and TLX will be out. RDX is already a huge hit.
In 2021, we will get a new ILX based on what Acura said a few weeks ago. They want to have 2 sedans and 2 suvs. I was really hoping to see the CDX in the North American
market.
In 2021, we will get a new ILX based on what Acura said a few weeks ago. They want to have 2 sedans and 2 suvs. I was really hoping to see the CDX in the North American
market.
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Beached (09-16-2019)
#661
Maybe there will be a 3rd if they decide to bring back the ZDX coupey-crossover at some point. If Audi, BMW, Mercedes, and Land Rover all have some it only stands to reason that there exists a viable market for it.
#662
Just arrived
Not sure about price being too high. If you compare to Lexus or Infinity, I think Acura prices are better. 2017 Lexus IS 350 FSport had a MSRP of 50k, 2018 Acura TLX ASpec AWD MSRP is 45,700. I chose the 2018 Acura TLX ASpec awd.
I seen a Nissan maxima for 42,460 MSRP.
Don't get me wrong, 45,700 MSRP is high for a car, but the MSRP is negotiable.
I seen a Nissan maxima for 42,460 MSRP.
Don't get me wrong, 45,700 MSRP is high for a car, but the MSRP is negotiable.
Just arrived got the first two in New Orleans pmc edition
Just arrived got the first two in New Orleans if your buying a tlx this is the one to buy aspec shawd pmc edition
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#663
Quote:
The price is to high because they have a very nice car they can't sell in any material volume. If you can't sell what is a good car for the MSRP less normal discounts & incentives its incorrectly priced. A car is only worth what people will pay for it.
Acura says the NSX is worth $160/170K & with $30,000 discounts they are selling as low as 15 a month. Everybody loves the car but almost nobody will pay $140,000 for one.
The TL 3G was in the $31/$36K price range give or take a few thousand dollars & they could sell 72,000 a year. They were a true value leader.
They pushed the price up with the 4G trying to look like a Tier I car but screwed the pooch with both a price increase & an unattractive car that was universally panned for looks in the motoring press. They came out with the G1 TLX again at the higher end of the price range for the upper versions of the car. Not many buyers.
Bottom line is the buying public just does not see the TLX in the range they have it priced at. They will take a low end Tier I brand with less options before paying the TLX price premium over an Accord.
Originally Posted by steig
Not sure about price being too high. If you compare to Lexus or Infinity, I think Acura prices are better. 2017 Lexus IS 350 FSport had a MSRP of 50k, 2018 Acura TLX ASpec AWD MSRP is 45,700. I chose the 2018 Acura TLX ASpec awd.
I seen a Nissan maxima for 42,460 MSRP.
Don't get me wrong, 45,700 MSRP is high for a car, but the MSRP is negotiable.
Not sure about price being too high. If you compare to Lexus or Infinity, I think Acura prices are better. 2017 Lexus IS 350 FSport had a MSRP of 50k, 2018 Acura TLX ASpec AWD MSRP is 45,700. I chose the 2018 Acura TLX ASpec awd.
I seen a Nissan maxima for 42,460 MSRP.
Don't get me wrong, 45,700 MSRP is high for a car, but the MSRP is negotiable.
The price is to high because they have a very nice car they can't sell in any material volume. If you can't sell what is a good car for the MSRP less normal discounts & incentives its incorrectly priced. A car is only worth what people will pay for it.
Acura says the NSX is worth $160/170K & with $30,000 discounts they are selling as low as 15 a month. Everybody loves the car but almost nobody will pay $140,000 for one.
The TL 3G was in the $31/$36K price range give or take a few thousand dollars & they could sell 72,000 a year. They were a true value leader.
They pushed the price up with the 4G trying to look like a Tier I car but screwed the pooch with both a price increase & an unattractive car that was universally panned for looks in the motoring press. They came out with the G1 TLX again at the higher end of the price range for the upper versions of the car. Not many buyers.
Bottom line is the buying public just does not see the TLX in the range they have it priced at. They will take a low end Tier I brand with less options before paying the TLX price premium over an Accord.
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Beached (09-16-2019)
#664
Quote:
The price is to high because they have a very nice car they can't sell in any material volume. If you can't sell what is a good car for the MSRP less normal discounts & incentives its incorrectly priced. A car is only worth what people will pay for it.
Acura says the NSX is worth $160/170K & with $30,000 discounts they are selling as low as 15 a month. Everybody loves the car but almost nobody will pay $140,000 for one.
The TL 3G was in the $31/$36K price range give or take a few thousand dollars & they could sell 72,000 a year. They were a true value leader.
They pushed the price up with the 4G trying to look like a Tier I car but screwed the pooch with both a price increase & an unattractive car that was universally panned for looks in the motoring press. They came out with the G1 TLX again at the higher end of the price range for the upper versions of the car. Not many buyers.
Bottom line is the buying public just does not see the TLX in the range they have it priced at. They will take a low end Tier I brand with less options before paying the TLX price premium over an Accord.
The price is to high because they have a very nice car they can't sell in any material volume. If you can't sell what is a good car for the MSRP less normal discounts & incentives its incorrectly priced. A car is only worth what people will pay for it.
Acura says the NSX is worth $160/170K & with $30,000 discounts they are selling as low as 15 a month. Everybody loves the car but almost nobody will pay $140,000 for one.
The TL 3G was in the $31/$36K price range give or take a few thousand dollars & they could sell 72,000 a year. They were a true value leader.
They pushed the price up with the 4G trying to look like a Tier I car but screwed the pooch with both a price increase & an unattractive car that was universally panned for looks in the motoring press. They came out with the G1 TLX again at the higher end of the price range for the upper versions of the car. Not many buyers.
Bottom line is the buying public just does not see the TLX in the range they have it priced at. They will take a low end Tier I brand with less options before paying the TLX price premium over an Accord.
Is not that simple, especially in the premium space...sometimes a car does not sell well for different reasons.
You cannot compare volumes for the 3G and volumes for the TLX and saying "it's not selling because of wrong pricing"...different era, no SUV mania, Acura is not seen as an "aspirational brand" anymore etc...
By your logic the current 3 Series is priced wrongly because is selling way less than the 3 Series used to sell in the past....nonsense.
Hyundai could make the exact same car as the S Class and it would not sell a fraction of the number of actual S Class sold at similar prices....regardless of how good the car is.
I do happen to think that the TLX has always been overpriced for what it is but you cannot make a general rule.
Last edited by 4G-Lover; 09-23-2019 at 11:30 AM.
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KeithL (09-23-2019)
#665
To be fair, I'm not sure Acura was ever an aspirational brand except for some low-expectations-in-life chumps.
#667
Used TLX seem like great deals for everyday drivers.
Similarly priced to Accord, slightly more comfy, etc.
They seem to have terrible resale though.
$32k new, $19k three years old. About 13% depreciation every year.
In contrast my Civic Si sold for $24k, and is now on sale at the dealer i traded in for $22k. 4.5% depreciation for every year old.
Hope I never have to trade my TLX in LOL. Will be worth $10
Similarly priced to Accord, slightly more comfy, etc.
They seem to have terrible resale though.
$32k new, $19k three years old. About 13% depreciation every year.
In contrast my Civic Si sold for $24k, and is now on sale at the dealer i traded in for $22k. 4.5% depreciation for every year old.
Hope I never have to trade my TLX in LOL. Will be worth $10
#669
Quote:
The price is to high because they have a very nice car they can't sell in any material volume. If you can't sell what is a good car for the MSRP less normal discounts & incentives its incorrectly priced. A car is only worth what people will pay for it.
The TL 3G was in the $31/$36K price range give or take a few thousand dollars & they could sell 72,000 a year. They were a true value leader.
They pushed the price up with the 4G trying to look like a Tier I car but screwed the pooch with both a price increase & an unattractive car that was universally panned for looks in the motoring press. They came out with the G1 TLX again at the higher end of the price range for the upper versions of the car. Not many buyers.
.
The price is to high because they have a very nice car they can't sell in any material volume. If you can't sell what is a good car for the MSRP less normal discounts & incentives its incorrectly priced. A car is only worth what people will pay for it.
The TL 3G was in the $31/$36K price range give or take a few thousand dollars & they could sell 72,000 a year. They were a true value leader.
They pushed the price up with the 4G trying to look like a Tier I car but screwed the pooch with both a price increase & an unattractive car that was universally panned for looks in the motoring press. They came out with the G1 TLX again at the higher end of the price range for the upper versions of the car. Not many buyers.
.
The price of the current car is actually a decent value, but in 15 years many things have changed. First the “entry luxury” market has so many competitors in it that were not there 15 years ago. Even the Germans offer lower models now to grab a piece of that market. Then you had the mainstream models stepping up with larger cars with better equipment. Add in Kia / Hyundai / Genesis and you have so many great choices that just did not exist 15 years ago. Add also the changing demographics such as Millennials not buying as many cars and not caring about upscale models compared to the 90s and early 2000s where luxury cars were status whether you could afford it or not.
Acura lost followers with the 4G TL, basically 5 years of fugly look and colors that lost some customers forever. Acura lost its edge as it knee jerked after the 4G and took the more conservative path on the TLX. They also have lacked a true luxury model that enticed anyone into the showrooms.
#670
The price of the current car is actually a decent value, but in 15 years many things have changed. First the “entry luxury” market has so many competitors in it that were not there 15 years ago. Even the Germans offer lower models now to grab a piece of that market. Then you had the mainstream models stepping up with larger cars with better equipment. Add in Kia / Hyundai / Genesis and you have so many great choices that just did not exist 15 years ago. Add also the changing demographics such as Millennials not buying as many cars and not caring about upscale models compared to the 90s and early 2000s where luxury cars were status whether you could afford it or not.
Acura lost followers with the 4G TL, basically 5 years of fugly look and colors that lost some customers forever. Acura lost its edge as it knee jerked after the 4G and took the more conservative path on the TLX. They also have lacked a true luxury model that enticed anyone into the showrooms.
Acura lost followers with the 4G TL, basically 5 years of fugly look and colors that lost some customers forever. Acura lost its edge as it knee jerked after the 4G and took the more conservative path on the TLX. They also have lacked a true luxury model that enticed anyone into the showrooms.
The 4G may have been "ugly" so some but at least it was going in the right direction (more luxurious than the previous car, real Torque Vectoring AWD and over 300 HP was serious stuff over 10 years ago). Acura got so scared after the 4G that they designed more most inoffensive, vanilla looking car they could possibly come up with and, not happy with just that, they downgraded its luxury, performance and mechanical cachet...that is how you got the TLX.
#671
By your logic the current 3 Series is priced wrongly because is selling way less than the 3 Series used to sell in the past....nonsense.
Hyundai could make the exact same car as the S Class and it would not sell a fraction of the number of actual S Class sold at similar prices....regardless of how good the car is.
I do happen to think that the TLX has always been overpriced for what it is but you cannot make a general rule.
Hyundai could make the exact same car as the S Class and it would not sell a fraction of the number of actual S Class sold at similar prices....regardless of how good the car is.
I do happen to think that the TLX has always been overpriced for what it is but you cannot make a general rule.
My numbers thing is pulling errors but it would be interesting to see a 2005 or 2006 listing for the group & the current listing for the same cars to see what shifts have taken place without any new entries. Still think the car is to expensive at the mid upper to top end forcing it to compete heads up with cars that have better name recognition & status.
As for BMW agree the overall numbers are down due to competition & an expanded market but to do a comparison with the past the 3 & 4 series should be combined to be comparable with the cars that were 3 series till the 4 series Coupe/Converts were split off inMay 2015.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 09-24-2019 at 11:08 AM.
#672
Luxury is all a matter of perception as well and where you previously came from. I've never own any Acura products before my TLX, so I never had a history like many members on this forum. Before the TLX, I had a WRX that hands down, was much more fun to drive than the TLX. But the cabin was noisy on the highway, the suspension got tiring on longer drives and the hard plastics everywhere did nothing but scream plebeian. I was getting older as well, and wanted something nicer without breaking the budget. The TLX fitted the bill nicely. The TLX is no sport sedan, but for a family car, it handles well enough with SH-AWD. So yeah, coming from a WRX, the TLX is absolutely luxurious for me. Maybe not for someone coming from a E-Class or 5 Series. At least Acura is moving in the right direction with the RDX. If only they can fix the god-awful bugs in the infotainment system.
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Terdbath (09-24-2019)
#673
Luxury is all a matter of perception as well and where you previously came from. I've never own any Acura products before my TLX, so I never had a history like many members on this forum. Before the TLX, I had a WRX that hands down, was much more fun to drive than the TLX. But the cabin was noisy on the highway, the suspension got tiring on longer drives and the hard plastics everywhere did nothing but scream plebeian. I was getting older as well, and wanted something nicer without breaking the budget. The TLX fitted the bill nicely. The TLX is no sport sedan, but for a family car, it handles well enough with SH-AWD. So yeah, coming from a WRX, the TLX is absolutely luxurious for me. Maybe not for someone coming from a E-Class or 5 Series. At least Acura is moving in the right direction with the RDX. If only they can fix the god-awful bugs in the infotainment system.
Did you drive anything but a TLX when upgrading from WRX? Like an 18+ Accord? Because that's not even a luxury car and it's getting rave reviews compared to the TLX in performance and refinement. So yeah, a TLX may appear luxurious beside a WRX, but the group here is trying to say that there are so many others in this space (CTS, ES, GS, E, 3, or A4) that make a TLX feel more like a WRX than a direct competitor.
#674
I went WRX to TSX to TLX. I know what you mean about the WRX. Fun car to drive, fast, handled on rails, obviously all about the engine and drivetrain... and absent any refinement. Rough ride pounded my back, driving stick in traffic sucked and the squeaky plastic dash got old. I agree with your point about luxury being relative when I traded in for my TSX. It was peppy (not powerful), handled on rails and had the quality/refinement my WRX lacked - leather, quiet, quality - that was a good all around car. Then I "upgraded" to a TLX which was a disaster for me well documented on this forum.
Did you drive anything but a TLX when upgrading from WRX? Like an 18+ Accord? Because that's not even a luxury car and it's getting rave reviews compared to the TLX in performance and refinement. So yeah, a TLX may appear luxurious beside a WRX, but the group here is trying to say that there are so many others in this space (CTS, ES, GS, E, 3, or A4) that make a TLX feel more like a WRX than a direct competitor.
Did you drive anything but a TLX when upgrading from WRX? Like an 18+ Accord? Because that's not even a luxury car and it's getting rave reviews compared to the TLX in performance and refinement. So yeah, a TLX may appear luxurious beside a WRX, but the group here is trying to say that there are so many others in this space (CTS, ES, GS, E, 3, or A4) that make a TLX feel more like a WRX than a direct competitor.
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someguy11 (09-24-2019)
#675
Jon Ikeda spoke with automotive news, he talked about position Acura as a performance brand through marketing etc... and that Acura has a goal have selling 200,000+ units in the next few years under his strategy.
#676
Man, they need to stop with the "performance through marketing" and stick with "performance through engineering". . . I don't want to hear about performance from them with 20+ hp! etc. . .. I want to drive something with engineering that puts them on the map again.
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#677
At this point, we see how Infiniti screwed up by mixing performance and luxury and now they are brand that can’t sell their cars. As a result, Infiniti sells either through fleet or massive incentives.
Acura should focus on performance by engineering! That’s all. Deliver better cars than the RDX. That’s success.
#678
Luxury is all a matter of perception as well and where you previously came from. I've never own any Acura products before my TLX, so I never had a history like many members on this forum. Before the TLX, I had a WRX that hands down, was much more fun to drive than the TLX. But the cabin was noisy on the highway, the suspension got tiring on longer drives and the hard plastics everywhere did nothing but scream plebeian. I was getting older as well, and wanted something nicer without breaking the budget. The TLX fitted the bill nicely. The TLX is no sport sedan, but for a family car, it handles well enough with SH-AWD. So yeah, coming from a WRX, the TLX is absolutely luxurious for me. Maybe not for someone coming from a E-Class or 5 Series. At least Acura is moving in the right direction with the RDX. If only they can fix the god-awful bugs in the infotainment system.
#679
The only other year they sold 200,000+ units in U.S. was in 2005 (209,610).
This was when Acura was at their peak.
They sold 158,934 units in U.S. in 2018 and had 0.92% market share.
2017 = 154,602 and 0.90% market share
2016 = 161,360 and 0.92%
2015 = 177,165 and 1.01%
2014 = 167,843 and 1.02%
2013 = 165,436 and 1.06%
2012 = 156,216 and 1.08%
2011 = 123,299 and 0.96%
2010 = 133,606 and 1.15%
200,000+ units in the next few years? I'll believe it when I see it.
If they bring the CDX to the U.S., then maybe. And that's if they don't cannibalize RDX sales.
Last edited by AZuser; 09-29-2019 at 02:05 PM.
#680
If they want to sell more than 200K, they need focus less on sedans/NSX, and more on North America's obsession with CUVs. As it stands, they currently have more cars than CUVs in their lineup, and three of those four cars, nobody is giving a shit about. They still have room to slot something below the RDX and above the MDX, and those CUVs need to come sooner than later.