black label

Got some very good info from some one who has seen and touched the 2012 TL. Here's what I know....

The grill has been redone, essentially the outer piece has been body matched and all that is there for the grille is the blade which has been downsized as well (basically body match the entire outline of the grill and shrink down the interor portion). The headlights have gone to a blacked out look (not the lenses, the interior of the headlight complex). The rear "smile" has been toned down but it is still there. The license plate will be higher on the 2012 than it currently is. The 17" wheels are new, the 18" wheels are new as well. The interior door handles will be made out of real metal with a brushed look. All cars will have a 6 speed transmission both the automatic and a manual. There will be an "advance" package TL, it gets 19" rims blind spot indicators, cooled seats but it will not have the MRF suspension tht the MDX/ZDX get.

No metal body panels have been changed, only the plastic bits

jasonwdp10

If that is true... i will be trading soon. Depending on price of course.

although even if i wait over 1 year, i'll be taking a HUGE loss. Anyway to minimize that??

docboy

I need to see non-camouflaged pics before I can decided if the exterior changes are for the better

Given that only the plastic bits are changed, shouldn't it be plausible and fairly easy to make mods to mimic the 2012 exterior changes to keep 2009/2010 TL owners happy?

jasonwdp10

If the update news is true, I'm already unhappy lol. I'm unhappy that acura could give us a product that they knew was not the best they could offer.

I hope the changes are significant enough for me to upgrade and take a loss. Otherwise I guess I can wait for the new RDX and new lexus IS (which i heard will be larger than the current one) to come out, then make my decision between the 3 vehicles in 2 years or so.

To be honest, with this mmc/update, it feels like acura has barely caught up to the competition (i mean barely a 6 spd auto in 2012?) I don't know if I want to buy another TL only to have it be outdone by the next 3 series or lexus IS a year later.

Gotta think hard about this i guess.

black label

Anything is possible, but it's looking like you would need to replace the entire front bumper and headlights as well as the rear bumper. Probably a fairly costly mod.

Not fair. What you need to realize is that this is Acura admitting they made a mistake. The TL used to outsell the TSX by about 2:1, with the current TL it's basically a 1:1 ratio. They know (now) that they f'd up the face of the TL when they redesigned it and they have moved production of the 2012 TL up by 6 months to correct it. They realized a problem and they are aggressively trying to fix it.

In regards to the RDX, IIRC 2012 model will be the redesign, MDX gets a redesign for 2013 model.

RSLTSX09XMNAVWX

I know that most folks will not find any of this new! All cars change over time. So you are getting a 6 speed Auto, you are also getting a NEW part in the car that has to work with the SH-AWD. Most likley it will be fine but it could still have issues? Moving up the rear plate, we saw that on the spy photos. I do not like that at all, I like the plate LOW like it is on a Chrysler 300! As I said in a previous email, some think this change in 2012 will be the Big Deal, but in some ways it could also make the car look worse. When Honda changed the grill in my 2004 Pilot in 2006, for me it was a Turn Off as was the CLEAR rear tail lights like a Nissan.. Change is sometimes not good for the sake of just making change.

RSLTSX09XMNAVWX

[quote=black label;12380718]Not fair. What you need to realize is that this is Acura admitting they made a mistake. The TL used to outsell the TSX by about 2:1, with the current TL it's basically a 1:1 ratio. quote]

The TL went up in price by almost $8K with its SH-AWD from the 2008. We also had a thing call the Economy go bust and that is why we have $5K discounts on the car, but ALL cars are being discounted. That is why I got my wife a 2009 TSX discounted $5500 at the same price I could get a Honda Accord. I don't think Acura is making changes due to a style issue, it is part of the cycle and if they do it right it might be better, time will tell...

jasonwdp10

I don't mind the looks. I'm talking about the 6 speed auto and advanced package.

The 6 speed auto was ready for the 2010 MDX, why was it not ready 1 year earlier for the (prior) bread and butter 2009 TL? It's possible that they were still refining it for production, but i strongly doubt it took honda an extra year to prepare what is already mainstream everywhere else. My assumptions obviously. But by the time the TL has the 6 speed auto, it will be 2012 already.

Advanced package. Was this really not in the works already? It feels like the TL should have already had it. Plain and simple, they were holding out on us. All of the 2009-2011 people did not have the choice to have an advanced package.

So now, assuming i still want the TL. I'll need to take a loss (probably 6k) on my current TL and pay probably (just assuming) 5k more for the new TL with the advanced package. It means i'm effectively paying $48,000 for an acura TL with the advanced package, or 51k+ for the SHAWD model. Not much value in that. I feel cheated. Should have just gotten another car in the first place.

All this because they figured that the 2009-2011 people didn't deserve the advanced package or the 6 speed auto.

Or was it not ready yet? Which means the advanced package was just a tacky add on that wasn't thought out for the 4gtl. Which means its another bandaid.

black label

The MMC is being moved ahead of schedule by 6 months and the primary focus is taking care of the "beak", the "bottle opener" or what ever the automotive press wants to refer to the grill as. There have been 2 huge complaints that have hurt TL sales, the way it looks from the fron and the way it looks from the rear. That is the focus of the MMC, they admitted to the fact that they missed the target with the styling of the car (literally, they came out and said it).

black label

The "advance package" didn't exist on any Acura until 2010, the MDX was a "sport package" until the 2010 model and all it gave you was the MRF suspension, perforated leather and different looking (but the same size) wheels.

You will be able to get a 6 speed automatic TL in April 2011 as a 2012 model.

This is just a fact of life, cars get better year after year, if they don't people stop buying them.

04 TSX had a manual adjust passenger seat, in 05 it was a power seat. 07 RDX base didn't have bluetooth or an auto dimming mirror, in 08 it did. 07 MDX tech didn't have a power lift gate, in 2008 it did. 05 TSX didn't have an aux port or foglights, in 2006 it had both. This is just a short list of how Acuras pick up new features on a yearly basis, it's just the way the automotive industry works.

jasonwdp10

I know. I guess i'm just bummed because I didn't get the upgraded TL.

Now i'll need to basically "overpay" by $5-6k (due to the loss) just to get what i really wanted in the first place.

Well the ventilated seats have been on the RL since 09. However, all or most of the lexus have had it since 2006, mb, bmw, have had them in their higher models also around the mid 2000's. Acura is behind again.

I just hope they get with the program and realize that luxury buyers demand more features and upgrades faster than economy buyers.

The next car i buy, I'll keep for at least 6 years, so i want it to have all the features i think are necessary. Venilated seats are VERY IMPORTANT in california and acura should be like lexus and make it an option on most or all models.

Yesterday it was 116 degrees and my ass was incinerated by the blazing hot black leather seat after my TL sat in the sun for a few hours. The seat didn't cool down much the whole day and ventilated seats would have been very useful. k sry, end rant.

P1zzaman

iTrader: (1)

Who ever designed the grill is probably an intern working there. All those who approved the grill is probably not working there anymore

black label

OK, that's different. Originally you made it sound as if you were mad at Acura for upgrading the vehicle.

Acura is also way behind these companies with how much they charge for their comparably sized and powered vehicles so there's a bit of give and take here. You can't pay for a RL and expect a Rolls Royce.

I can understand your frustration but it is what it is. In the automotive industry if you stand still, you're really moving backwards.

If I were you Jason, I wouldn't rush out to replace my current car right when the 2012 comes out, that vehicle will most likely be in production for 12-16 months, remember it will arrive in April of 2011 and most likely we won't see a 2013 model until late in 2012. Take your time and wait for some incentives to show up and minimize the hit of trading your car in so soon.

jasonwdp10

I c.

Now i guess i just need to wait and see how the upcoming RDX and IS FMC's are then compare them to the MMC TL to see which is the better car for me and better value. That way i can minimize the amount of loss and get a car that will last me longer without wanting to upgrade

edit: oo yea you're right. I forgot about the delay. I will wait as patiently as possible.

Sonor Kid 2

[QUOTE=RSLTSX09XMNAVWX;12380771]
The sales numbers tell the story for the TL, the economy was bad but every other brand has outsold the TL, period.
Looks have everything to do with this MMC, hopefully it will be a nice improvement.

winstrolvtec

I agree the style is likely the main culprit but there are other factors as well and not every entry vehicle has outsold the TL nor consitently either. Acura still has the fourth best selling sedan lineup of any luxury brand on the year so far and the TL is the best selling Acura sedan. It's never as good as portrayed or as bad.

black label

While the TL is still technically the best selling Acura sedan, it used to be the best selling Acura period. It has lost that title to the MDX and the TSX is not very far behind it, as of the end of August Acura has only sold 2200 more TL's than TSX's. It's unfortunate because the TL is a hell of a car from the inside when on the road but it's the butterface of the automotive industry, a little plastic surgery for it is a good idea IMO.

JM2010 SH-AWD

"Well the ventilated seats have been on the RL since 09. However, all or most of the lexus have had it since 2006, mb, bmw, have had them in their higher models also around the mid 2000's. Acura is behind again."

I'm not sure I'm understanding this logic. You are complaining about having to pay more for a future Acura having additional features, then saying Acura is "behind again" because Lexus, MB and BMW have some of the features that Acura is going to charge you more to get. Have you priced a GS/C or E/ or 3 or 5 series lately compared to what your TL cost? For that matter, have you priced an RL?

If you want every luxe feature in the world, you're going to have to pay for it.

George Knighton

I'm not sure that is fair.

If we had to wait until we could sell you the best there was to offer, we'd never be able to offer you anything at all.

The six speed automatic didn't even go into production until this year, remember. And even now, they are in short supply.

ostrich

I know, I know! People complain about Acura if they miss one feature that the other brands have. However, they don't seem to remember that there are lots of standard features that Acura has but the other brands may only let you have as an optional cost. For instance, even for many of their $50K+ cars, MB or BMW would still only give you vinyl seats and force you to pay thousands more for their leather seats. For their 2010 models, Audi will not even include auto-dim rearview mirror or Home link for their Premium Plus package for their A4. So you are paying for a $40K+ car without even an auto-dim mirror or Home link!!! How silly is that? Oh and Lexus will make you pay thousands of dollars for their Mark Levinson system which does not even come CLOSE to our ELS system in the 4G TL. Yet, no one seems to complain about these brands....

jasonwdp10

That's exactly the point! I wanted ventilated seats in the TL, not the RL. Acura had it in its plans, but decided not to put it in the 4gtl. I would have paid if it was available.

I'm not complaining about needing to pay more to get the features. I'm complaining about the loss i'll need to take in order to upgrade to a new TL with features that were readily available at the time i bought the car (albeit in other acuras), that should have been in the TL, but acura decided not to put them in. I find it hard to believe that it would take 2.5 years to figure out how to put ventilated seats in the TL. The real reason is that they were holding it back for the MMC.

btw all this "but but but compare other brands".. No. I don't want other brands, i want an acura. I'd hope to see acura be the best at everything, but they're moving like snails.

Also when did fixing acura's problems involve constantly referring to other manufactures problems?

All i said was that other brands had the ventilated seats. I don't care about mark levinson or vinyl seats. You're missing my point. I was bringing up other brands to show that they had these "new" features years before acura did. I did not reference their cost. Get it?

As for the RL, as nice as it is, it's not as fast or sporty as the TL, and ever since 2009, it looks horrible.

Anyways, Black label is right about waiting. At that time (yr 2012), the new RDX should be out, and there will also be a new lexus IS. I hope to stick with acura because i love the brand and have owned nothing but hondas and acuras. but if they continue to be behind all the time, i may just move on. I'm growing tired of waiting so long for each new feature to come out on acuras even though they've been avail in their higher models or other brands for so long.

winstrolvtec

I want to see new features and upgrades as much as the next guy but you can't complain about the features taking too long to trickle down and then also complain when they finally get here. We all knew Acura had significant changes coming for the MMC, they always do, that's why it's a good idea to plan your lease or purchase around their gen cycles and MMC points.

If you like to keep up with the latest product, finance or lease (36 months) the first year of a new gen and lease the MMC for only 24 months or straight finance instead. The next product with even more features and advancements is always only 2-3 years away. I respect the way Honda and Acura do it because it's predictable, that's not always the case elsewhere.

I applaud Acura for holding out and adding the changes at the usual MMC interval and making it available early instead of just having the MMC for 2011 model. They didn't necessarily have to do it that way, it's not that common for a model year (2011 TL) to only run 6-8 months. If that was the case, those of us who are not mad, would be and those who are, would be furious right now. A big reason why they do it like that is because of their customers loyalty. I don't see a problem with how they handled it.

Oswald Vater

Thanks for the info. It has helped my decision whether to extend the lease on my 08 for another year (Feb, 11 to Feb, 12) or end up with a 10-11. I am going to do the former and figure by lease-end that incentives will be available on the 12's. Now I must be strong to avoid pressure from the dealer to do the latter!

PS - My 08/Navi (WDP/P) is beautiful with only 19k miles.

Sonnick

Good to know Acura is doing some styling upgrades for the 2012 TL. I do think it is in dire need of better styling. However, I did see an A-Spec the other day with the full aero package and I have to say it did look sexy. The front is very aggressive, and with the package, the grille didn't look all that bad.

The 6 speed is going to be a big improvement for the AT. It should be much stronger and also much quicker than the 5AT.

I think some of the things they are adding for the 2012 were ready for 2011, BUT they weren't fully tweaked yet. Would you rather them have rushed it to production (like Microsoft did the XBOX 360 and have the red rings of death like I just got a couple weeks ago ) and have errors, or be fully tweaked in for the next year. I know it is upsetting to those who bought the 2009-2010, but at the same time usually the first year or so of a new model tends to have SOME issues, or less options than it will a few years down the line. This is how the car industry evolves.

jasonwdp10

Yea i guess. I was just frustrated because I know i'll need to take a pretty significant loss if i want to move into a mmc tl or fmc rdx. Otherwise i could wait for the fmc 5gtl or the mmc fmc 2.5grdx lol, but that's pretty far away. I don't think i can stand not having a feature i find that useful for that long.

ESHBG

You '09-'11 owners shouldn't worry too much. Honda/Acura does not have the best track record when it comes to the first year of major changes. The 6-speed AT sounds great BUT with the auto tranny issues of the past, I don't think it would be a bad thing to wait a year or two to make sure the kinks have been worked out. Also, it would be silly to take a huge financial loss just to have a few more things...enjoy what you have, and ride it until it makes sense to get rid of it and when you won't be putting yourself into a hole. Also, look at Honda/Acura's track record, they have a habit of adding even MORE little things and touches as the years go on (one of my pet peeves with them, actually, as you never seem to have THE car unless you wait until the very last minute).

On a side note, I do have to laugh that Acura is making us ooh and aww over a 6-speed AT tranny, when Ford and many of the others are putting them in their lower-end cars like it is nothing and in some cases, have been for some time now LOL

Colin

Do you mean the transmission family sold between 2000 and ~2004? The only real problem automatic transmission in 60 years of building cars? I don't see a bad 'track record' there.

YetiTL

I'm in a similar boat as you and I'll surely trade my 2009 for a 2012. There was no MT for the 2009 and I would have had to upgrade to a 2010 for the 6MT. I made a deal with myself: I'll keep the car until late 2011-early 2012 to minimize any loss and get what I want for a good time.

With a nice MT/AT choices, super stereo, great engine, superb AWD and ventilated AND cooled seats, the TL is everything I want from a car so I'll buy a 2012 and keep it for a long time.

While I understand your frustration, I don't think it's good for you to request that Acura must be the best at everything, you'll only be disappointed.

I'm not lecturing you in any way, btw. I'm just trying to show you how I see it...

RSLTSX09XMNAVWX

But I can tell you that a 6 Spd Auto in a Benz or BMW is far Superior to what Ford puts in its cars. Having a 6 Spd is like saying that as long as a car has 10 speakers and the Stereo Light turns Red that it will sound just find! Engineering is a big deal breaker for me.. That is what I like about Acura and Honda. Build a Quality product. Be innovative with how you engineer things and at the same time keep the cost low or at least reasonable. As for comments about Heated-Cooled Seats!!!!! Well when the temperature in San Diego is always around 70 deg, who needs heated or cooled seats!

jasonwdp10

I know lucky!! my friend in SD never complains about heat. It's much hotter in LA and the Valley

The other day was 116 degrees, even with the a/c auto at "low" it felt like i was going to melt!! Ventilated seats will definitely be welcomed!

On the other hand, I almost never use the heated seats. This is california!! It's never really that cold!

compewterbleu

I'm waiting on the 5G, because then you get it all...new tranny, engine, sheet metal...plus all the latest and greatest, yeah you guessed it...TOYS!

jasonwdp10

I was thinking the same thing, but it's quite a long wait. But you're right, there should be a new engine n all that.

I just hope that they're still priced ok, otherwise we won't be able to afford it.

Rocketsfan

I've got more patience than Acura's got funny looking grills.

lol. jk. I'm going to try and wait until the 5G and am hoping my 3G can hold out that long. When do we expect 5G's to land on US shores? Sometime early or late 2012?

Alexander.

iTrader: (1)

Hope you are trolling.

That's like saying DAMN why did i buy an F430 when i could've had an F458 (especially after that top gear).

In the end, all that matters is that you're happy with what YOU have. Forget what else is out there. Especially in this price bracket, the TL SH-AWD (regardless of year) is a bargain.

Rocketsfan

Well said and absolutely true.

compewterbleu

$ for $ the TL SH-AWD is the champ. People hate what they don't understand or fail to comprehend or envy. People who like the TL made the choice, folks who didn't ac like a bad rash came over them or something. crazy.

MurkyRiversTL

5g will be 2014 if Acura continues with their normal trend. 4g MMC will be out in early 2011 as a 2012

VTEC Racer

Yeah I don't expect to see a 5g until the Fall of 2013 as a 2014 model.

compewterbleu

I'll make sure I have all my change to lug over to the nearest CoinStar so I'll be ready to upgrade! LOL

draph

It was in the product plans from the get go. Fully loaded 2009-11 TLs still have knock outs for more buttons to the left of the steering wheel. Perforated leather in tech package accommodates seat ventilation (don't want to have to go with three leather trims when two will do). The size of the seats already has provisions for the fan to push air through them (personally, I would have rather had another inch or two of rear leg/foot room for passengers).