Doc's TL-S

That is a good one!!!

Bearcat94

Did you ask about the much rumored Flux Capacitor?

YoungCeo

I can't believe that NO ONE has any info or pictures of this car, that was actually SHOWN to hundreds of people

SpicyMikey

I totally agree it's hard to believe. I never would have thought a large group of people could keep a secret this well. Maybe Roswell really was the site of an alien crash?

Ibn Rushd

I'm also surprised no one has "sketched" it on paper to show people or something. But i mean it was probably a no camera affair (thus no photos) and dealers were told a limited amount of things.

Honda keeps things inside better than most bank vaults.

WDP-Acura TL

the new 09 TL better blow out the rest of the competition when it hits the market, being under the wraps this tight. This car must look that dam good they don't want other car makers copying on its styling , I guess.

xdaily

Thats only on the direct methane injection option. Gotta save em up until your
losing a race and then let er rip for a few extra FP.

Tripnbeats

there seems to be a type s pattern since the 2nd gen.... its like they make the regular one and introduce a few features from a mix of type s n regular then they drop the type s 2-3 yrs after the initial drop of the new body style.

ssmtl2nv

iTrader: (2)

I say we just s/c all our 3rd gens and call it a day!!!!

ssmtl2nv

iTrader: (2)

In that case, why buy a s/c???? What did acura merge with american muscle?

FiveLiterCheater

I'd rather wait and have the power go to the right wheels

legionofdoom

From ToVTEC on 5/6/08 (not sure if it's been posted already - if so, my apologies):



# TL The TL redesign is the biggest news at Acura for model year 2009. With the 2004 TL, Acura raised the bar for performance, value, and technology, so there's a lot on the line with the 2009 model. With that in mind, the '09 is expected to be offered in both FWD and SH-AWD configurations. The 2009 TL's engine offering is said to include a 3.5L 280hp V6 and a 305hp 3.7L V-6. Front-wheel drive will be the standard configuration, but Acura's advanced SH-AWD system will supposedly be offered with both the 3.5L and 3.7L engines. The Type-S trim level may be put on the shelf for the time being, but there are already rumors that when it does return, it will be packing 330-340hp. From those who have already seen the new TL's styling, word is that the changes are quite radical, and it looks like nothing currently in the Acura lineup. The new TL is said to have grown quite a bit dimensionally, but we're hoping Acura found a way to keep the TL's curb weight in check.
Summary: Look for even more performance and technology from a larger 2009 TL.
Watch For: The styling and performance of the 2009 TL is said to set the pace for Acuras to come. Available: September/October '08

JeffNY

The 300HP '08 MDX gets 15 / 20 / 17 mpg (3.7 liters)
The 290HP '08 RL gets 16 / 24 / 19 mpg (3.5 liters)
The 2008 TL gets from 17 to 27 mpg (20 to 21 combined mpg) depending on engine and tranny chosen.

What is the most optimistic view of what a 300HP engine in a TL can get? 19 or 22 mpg in combined driving? Gas is now above $4.00/gal in most places and there are new reports it will continue to climb .05 cents to .10 cents a WEEK though the summer.

I don't know why all the need for all this horsepower. How many of us actually race our cars? And are you really going to take down a Vett or Viper with 300HP? I like HP too. But if it's a choice between low MPG and parking the car in the garage for bragging rights or higher MPG in a car you can actually afford to DRIVE and cruise in I'll take the latter.

My '99 TL (9 years old next month) can do 150MPH. God knows why, I can't drive it that fast with all the cops we have on the road in this area now. In all the time I owned the car the fastest I ever got was about 108 MPH ONCE just to see how fast the car could get there. Who really needs a street car that can go 150MPH? And the cost of those "high performance" tires we are forced to buy....

Acura should concentrate on on the 0 to 95 MPH acceleration and cruising range and GET THE MPG UP! Forget the high end over 100 MPH because most of us don't drive in that range 99.9999999% of the time.

The weather here in the northeast the past few weeks has been incredible......cool (mid 60's to 70's), sunny, dry....great weather to be slow cruisen around town and country side in the car with a big ice coffee....but the friggen cost of gas has gone insane, and will only get worse. Acura needs to address THAT.

Jeff

sol_da_man

:troutslap

JeffNY

Here is some math:

You buy a new '08 TL for $34,000. In 5 years you sell it for $14,500 . The cost of the car is then $19,500 (not counting maintenance). Over 60 months that's $325/month (not counting any interest if you don't pay cash)

You drive 20,000 miles a year. Gas costs, on average, say $4.65 gallon (remember, we are looking 5 years into the future, that may be low) and you average 23 mpg. You use 870 gallons a year, and pay $4043 a year for fuel. That comes out to $336 a month for gas.

In that scenario the cost of the fuel to run the car costs MORE than the cost of the car. Wow.

Happy Driving!

Edward'TLS

Low horsepower (hp) sedans --> that's what the Honda brand is for. For those looking for fuel-efficient, slow, low-power sedans, the TL will be a totally wrong choice for them. They should buy the Accord instead.

Honda = cheap, low-hp, average-performance, no-frills vehicle line.
Acura = expensive, high-hp, high-performance, up-market vehicle line.

I agree that not many people need that much hp for their vehicles. But high hp is a brand image, especially for up-market luxury brands. It makes the brand famous. It adds prestige to the buyers buying that auto brand.

High-hp is a must-have for luxury brands. Even Hyundai is working on it. 400-500hp high-performance luxury vehicles are not uncommon these days. Simply looking at the R/RS-line from Audi, M-line from BMW, AMG-line from MB, and now the LS-F from Lexus, you'll see that they're all going all-out in boosting the already sickening hp numbers.

JeffNY

Ed,

When gas was .99 cents to 1.49 I think we agree on the HP issue. But it's way beyond that now and getting worse.

This thread just seemed to be sticking to the "HP" issue. I agree the Acura "luxury" brand needs to differentiate itself from the Honda brand. But there are lots of ways it can do that besides "HP"....styling, features, electronics, interiors, safety. And I think Acura can still sell luxury/sport cars that get good MPG. Look what people were paying for the Prius when it first came out, there were waiting lists.

There are a lot of people who have a lot of money who are happy to pay a premium for luxury features, while feeling good that they are buying a car that is "green".

I know the 25 year old crowd will go for the big-motor HP at any cost. When I was that age I had to (foolishly) have a huge cool pickup with a big motor. Only later did I realize the true $ cost of that.

I don't know, I think if Acura offered a 160 HP or hybrid "green" TL that got 34 or 37 MPG combined they would sell a ton of them (and I could justify upgrading from my '99 TL). Maybe Honda would have better success doing that than they had with the Accord Hybrid....which Honda had to discontinue because of poor sales. Nobody wanted it for some reason.

But who am I to tell Acura and Honda how to sell cars.....all I know is HP is not the do-all end-all in luxury cars or what sells TL's....and a 300HP TL is not going to get good MPG.

It would be interesting to see if Acura did offer a "green" TL (all the luxury of a TL and high MPG) along side the 300HP "muscle" TL (with bad MPG) how it would do. I, personally, would be much more inclined to by the former.

Hey, maybe they could offer a hybrid with a nitric oxide tank so the 2 or 3 times year you have to show that Chevy Impala who is boss by pealling away from a stop light you can just hit a button....then the rest of the year get good MPG

Just for the record, when I bought my TL it was not because of just HP. It was because there was no other car out there that came LOADED (including navigation!) like a TL for around $30,000. The interior STILL looks good, and 9 years ago a BMW (with options added to match a TL) was $10,000+ higher in price. What got me was the interior, radio/CD, Navi, moon roof, leather seats, cool looks and Hondas reputation for reliability. For the price nothing compared.

>>Simply looking at the R/RS-line from Audi, M-line from BMW, AMG-line from MB, and now the LS-F from Lexus<<

Look, if money was no object yes, I'd probably have an AMG But, unfortunately, for a lot of us the cost of the vehicle - and the fuel it needs to run - is a factor.

JeffNY

Just had a thought.....Acura could sell the:

TL ....and the TL-S .....and the TL-G [Green, high MPG version] ....they could market it as the "Extended Range TL for those who like to spend lots of time in their TL, with the oldies on the radio, while cruising and traveling without going broke buying gas"

If Acura can offer a "TL-S" version I think they can offer a "TL-G" version. And honestly, I think they would sell more "G"s than "S"'s

Jrbn2g04AcuraTL

That would be cool if they made a TL-G. So, people can use it for work car... I own a 3rd gen SC'd TL and I only use it on weekend car and I recently bought a Hybrid civic for my work car. Its really cool putting 35 bucks for a full tank that last you almost 2 weeks.

mista.huynh

iTrader: (4)

If Acura would ever to decrease the hp on the TL, I honestly believe the sales of the TL will go down so quickly. It wouldn't compare to the g35's, 3 series, and those others in it's class. Than what are we going to compare the TL too? A chevy malibu? If it can't keep up with a g35 sedan, than sorry I'm not interested. I think people know and understand, if they can't afford the gas for a higher end luxury car like the TL, than obviously they should consider buying a accord or even a civic, if their so worried about gas prices.

wayne,

JeffNY

Mista, don't think of it as "decreasing HP", think of it as "increasing MPG" And if you read my post I said Acura should offer a "TL-G" in addition to a TL and TL-S. I am for choice (and Acura selling cars). Don't know why so many others ARN'T. And actually, if the G35 or 3 series get horrible gas mileage that's kinda dumb too.

But hey, if you can afford $4000+ a year for gasoline so you can drive around town and tell people "I got 300 horsepower!" God bless ya. By the way, enjoy spending all that time working at work earning $6500 a year (before taxes) just to put gas in your car. A lot of us (including owners of TL's for 9 years) aren't independently wealthy or want to that many hours just to fuel our cars.

Hey, the 1908 Ford model T got 25 MPG. Look how far we have "Advanced" (Acuras word) in 100 years....thats better than the current TL hahaha

By the way, in case you missed it, gas prices have TRIPLED in just the last 3 or so years. At what point will you say to TL owners "Hey, if you can't afford the gas you shouldn't drive a TL"? $6 bucks? $8 bucks? There are going to be a lot of unsold TL's at the Acura dealer

JeffNY

By the way, for those of you who ONLY care about HP and say "If you can't afford the gas you shouldn't buy a TL, buy an Accord or Civic".....I say "If all you care about if HP then why don't YOU buy a Dodge Charger or Ford Mustang instead of a TL? Or for you "money is no object" guys out there why don't YOU buy a Bentley? You can have 500HP and 11MPG. What could be better than that? If that's how you compare cars the TL is no where near the class of these cars and the TL isn't for you. Sorry."

The TL is so much more than than the horsepower of it's engine.............

VelfarreClubber

well said

jnickellrental

I like this TL-G idea. It is hard to find luxury and reliability with some degree of economy. There has to be a market for that.
I am not a mechanic by any means so this may not make sense, but is there a way to make a vehicle that has great power when you want/need it, but that you can tune down with settings. The M5 has a button that gives it 100 extra temporary HP. Many cars have shift and shock settings for performance and comfort. How great would it be to have engine settings for the same. 350hp for some fun out on a spin, but 200 when putzing to and from work. That would be revolutionary and sell well in this gas market! Maybe that is why they are being so secrative, because they are gonna change the game - not even wasting my time crossing my fingers on that one though.

bw5011

Why would you and others keep talking about buying American made crappy cars, i.e. Mustang, Charger. Anyway it is not that people only care about HP, but they care about the TL's image and how it keeps up with cars in its class, i.e. G35, 335 things like that. If you are crying about gas buy something you can afford. or buy a second car, ie Civic. It would be nice if they offered a TL-G but if it dont get any better MPG than the Accord Hybrid, dont bother. O whoever made the Accord Hybrid comment, they had to stop selling it cause it only got 3 MPG than the regular Accord and it cost way more. Just like the Honda Fit doesnt get better MPG than the Civic. Gas is going up regardless and besides look at people over the world, the US is still and the low side for gas per gallon, look at England. Anyway the people crying because they dont want the HP on the new TL to be over 300HP because of MPG, must want the TL to sink the the RL's level, where everything in its class kills it and sales suck. The RL is a over priced, under powered car. It should have a Honda badge and been priced around the 40k range with the technology package. Why would you want the TL to be outclassed by everything in its class but still has the same price range. You would think they learned after the first Gen TL. The 2nd gen was a better car at a lower price. If the G35 is beating the breaks off the TL and new TL cant keep up with the current 335, the TL will stand for Totally Lacking....

Ac Man

I understand both of your arguements, but at the end of the day, we're talking about "Luxury" cars. When you buy a "Luxury" car there are certain things that should be a given i.e. HP, nice interiors, premium features, etc. So if people start worrying about MPG instead of the things that usually come with having a "Luxury" car, then maybe those people are looking in the wrong class for a vehicle. And that's why I believe the comment about buying an Accord or Civic was mentioned. But we are definatley going to have change the way we think in terms of what is important in a luxury vehicle with these damn gas prices.

Jrbn2g04AcuraTL

I dont think the HP will go down but i'm pretty sure that it wont be as fast as the G's, 3's and IS's...... As long as they come up with a balance car, they will be ok. If your too worried about the HP, you're looking at the wrong car and I would start looking at the upcoming GT-R.

fsttyms1

Big HP doesnt have to mean bad gas mileage. Chevy can get 30+ on the hwy with a 400+ V8 in the corvette. (though acura having to wring every bit it can out of a V6 to me is dumb instead of doing a DD V8 or something similar)

Edward'TLS

Jeff,

also for the record, I bought the TL-S because of the HP. In 2001, the TL-S had the most HP in it's class at 260hp for it's price, where most of the competitors were still around 220hp. If there were no Type-S, I wouldn't even having taken a peek at the TL, let alone buying one.

Those people who worry so much about gas price should never consider buying any mid-size sedans which are big and heavy. Upmarket ones, like the TL, are even worst with all the unnecessary luxury amenities all adding to the already-heavy curb weight of the cars. More weight = less fuel efficient.

Nothing is perfect. If you want some, you lose some. You just can win them all. So you want a big and heavy luxury car, you have to suffer for bad gas mileage. If you want good gas mileage, you have to give up your big and heavy luxury car. Unfortunately this is life, and more unfortunate is that Acura still hasn't been able to enter the hybrid arena like Lexus does.

In terms of saving gas, Honda already has this cylinder cut-off technology which is widely in use in the Honda product lines. The reason why Honda doesn't apply it to the Acura product lines is that Acura products are focused on performance, not good gas mileage. Sorry to disappoint some people.

A better choice for these gas price conscious people is the compact 4-cylinder TSX which is smaller, lighter, and with a weak gas-sipping powerplant.

GeorgeTSX

In fact I averaged at least 32MPG on a trip I took in my 2004 TSX this weekend according to the TSX's trip computer.

mista.huynh

iTrader: (4)

I couldn't agree more about driving a tsx instead of a TL if your so worried about gas.
Acura shouldn't decrease the TL's performance for better gas mileage.


By the way, don't compare a dodge charger to a TL. That's just plain ignorant.
Buying a Bentley over a TL? How can anyone even make that comparison??
No one here said they had 100,000 for a Bentley, only 40 g's for a TL...

All I gotta say is, by a four banger (tsx) to save your money on gas.
Don't forget, tsx uses premium gas....

SlipperyPete

I miss the days when I could see the same photoshopped picture in every other post.

You know for those so worried about be MPG, maybe if Acura would take out the Nav package, put in some cheaper cloth seats and drop some 15's on this bad boy we could get a little more bang for our buck...fingers crossed

JeffNY

I enjoy driving my '99 TL tons. I enjoy the room, the comfortable heated seats, the navi, climate control system, heated mirrors, sound system and moon roof. I love it all. And my '99 TL has "only" 225 HP....of which I use about 1/2 of 90% of the time. I ENJOY a luxury car. I could cruise around in it all day - if it weren't for having to tank it up with ever increasingly expencive gas.

I don't know why so many of you guys are so paranoid about the idea Acura might offer a version of the TL that got good mileage. Can the MPG of a TL EVER get above 21 MPG? By the way, that 25MPG Model-T Henry built 100 years ago? It could also run on ethanol. The current TL can't even do THAT to help TL owners save some money on fuel.

The reaction to this is kind of funny actually (and kind of what I expected) "What! A TL that gets more than 21 MPG!!! What are you some kind of commie!! My God the world may come to an end!! How are we supposed to get to 60MPH in under 6 seconds! Or break 100MPH in the 1/4 mile! Don't you realize the TL needs to do that?" :p

Hey, maybe 10 or 15 years ago I'd have agreed with you guys. But the world, and a lot of us old farts (mid-40's and up), have changed I guess. I could care less about drag racing our TL's at stop lights or doing 95 on the interstate, But I WOULD like a reliable luxury car that is comfortable, good handling, is fun to drive and reflects my good taste - and that could sip gas so I could cruise in it all day and do more road trips.

THAT is what I enjoy and thought the TL was about - a good driving experience. I never thought Acura meant the TL to be a "muscle car".

It's funny, after I bought my TL I would check out other TL drivers.....expecting to see another young really cool hip guy like myself. To my surprise I saw a lot of grand-ma's and older guys and young girls driving TL's. Who also seemed to enjoy all the TL had to offer for the price. The TL demographics go far beyond the "racing crowd".

Nah, I still think I am right. I think you guys who want a "muscle car" should sell your TL's and get a Dodge Challenger SRT8. 424HP? Yea, that'll toast any G35 or 3-Series

But I want all you big HP guys to relax and get some sleep tonight. When Santa finally delivers the '09 TL you can be sure it won't say "TL-G" on the trunk. And you can all run down to your Acura dealer with your $35,000 in your hands and get your 300 HP TL....then you can start doing what, I guess, the TL was designed to do best - go looking for G35's at stop lights to drag race and then burn gas the rest of the day :p

..............Oh, if BY CHANCE the '09 is 300HP and it DOES get 35 MPG I'll know there really is a Santa, and he now works at Acura...and somewhere Soichiro Honda has a smile on his face.

Peace

Bearcat94

3G TL drivers REGULARLY report ~30 mph on the highway. It has also been noted that the TL gas mileage improves when the right foot is restrained from seeking max HP/Acceleration.

3G w/Super Charger:





Etc, etc, etc.

Not opposed to a "high mileage" version of the TL.

I am opposed to someone/some company/some government agency telling me what I should or should not drive, what I should or should not spend and how I should or should not hug trees.

Edward'TLS

With myself being 40+, I'm as much an old farts as you are. But I don't want no lame 225hp TL. You said you want a good handling and fun to drive luxury car. It ain't no fun driving a 225hp 3550lb mid-size sedan. But a 300+hp TL would definitely be fun to drive.

Technology advances. Everything moves forward. The HP output of new cars only goes up, rarely comes down due to fierce competition from rival auto makers. If you're looking for a new 225hp TL, you will be disappointed. Any new TL will be at least 258hp -- same as for the current base TL. When most TL competitors are now 300+hp, and even the economy brands V6 Honda Accord and V6 Toyota Camry are both rated at 268hp, how on earth can one expect a lame 225hp TL to sell well ?

Time flies. The definition for "muscle car" has changed. Back 5-10 years ago, a 300hp sedan is considered to be a "muscle car". But now a 300hp sedan is the norm, with "muscle car" becomes nothing less than 400hp. Nowadays, no one considers a 306hp G35 nor a 300hp 335i a "muscle car", because 300hp is becoming the standard for cars in this luxury class category. Why so scared of a 300hp TL ? This change is inevitable given time.

In addition, Acura has recently changed it's brand direction. It is now more focused on performance more than anything else, with the new TL getting the RL powerplant, and the new RL and the new NSX getting V8/V10 and a RWD chassis. For those who's afraid of too much HP, the Acura brand is becoming a wrong choice for them.

Acura makes cars that appeal to as wide a range of buyers as possible, not just limited to your type or my type. A high HP car caters to all. Those seeking fun to drive will enjoy the unlimited power, whereas those don't need that much HP can be light-footed on the pedal and drive S.L..O...W. But it'll always get you out of trouble in occasions that you need that much HP. On the other hand, a low HP car will cater only to the slow drivers while leaving out the fast drivers -- not a very good business model for a car maker.

Remember that all cars come in as a package. The roomy interior, the comfortable heated seats, the navi, the climate control system, the heated mirrors, the sound system, the moon roof, the reliability, the good handling, the fun to drive, as well as the high HP engine. There is no piecemeal alternate. You either have it all, or you don't.

Accept the inevitable. I move with the time. Why don't you too ?

TL1999

man, my average MPH is 35....LOL

JCL622

QQ i get 13

JeffNY

>>3G TL drivers REGULARLY report ~30 mph on the highway. <<

On Acuras own web site it says "21 mpg" in combined driving. I can get 24 MPG on the highway with my '99 (I've checked the gallons/miles). But that is a fraction of my driving, I get about 19 MPG most of the time.

>>am opposed to someone/some company/some government agency telling me what I should or should not drive<<

There are more cars to choose from today than ever before. And I am FOR choice too, like you. That's why I'd like a "G" version But what will dictate what we drive will not, in the end, be a car company or government, it'll be what we can afford.


Ed, if gas was still $1.49/gallon I'd buy the HP too. I still like putting my foot in it every now and then. And the TSX is a nice car. But did you guys know, as I understand it, Acura sells the TSX as the "TL"in the UK and Europe because gas cost so much over there. They don't even sell the American TL over there because it cost to much for gas. And as gas prices continue to climb climb climb here in the U.S. 21MPG/300HP metrics are not what a high volume production car will need to sell well. When gas hit's $5.00 bucks and then $6.00 bucks (like Europe) who will be able to afford to drive them? Honda, who likes to sell volume cars, will not be able to justify them.

And for the 1 or 2 seconds performance improvement a 300 HP car can deliver over the current model there is a huge amount of operating cost to carry for the other 99.999% of the time you drive the car "normally".

But, as I say, who am I to tell Honda how to sell cars. This will all wash out in the market as people decide what kind of car they can afford to replace there current one.

jnickellrental

Why cant we have the best of both worlds. A 300hp car or even 350 that can be set to run on 4 cylinders or less HP or something by changing some settings, but can be quickly bumped up if you want to have more fun. Almost every other part of a car now days has the ability to do this, why not the engine. That would sell like hotcakes a 350hp engine that gets 35 mpg when driven in economy and 0-60 in 5sec when set on performance. Hell then you could even maybe do better because you only need an average 15mpg out of the car at 350 when your having fun if you can turn around and dial it down for the daily commute!

EL19

iTrader: (4)

I believe the TSX in Europe is the Euro Accord not the TL. I see both sides of this arguement but seriously the world is moving faster and so are cars. In 1998 the civic has 105HP now it has 205HP. Its called change, yea gas is pretty expensive but my pockets arent hurting to fill my tank up. I just have to budget better and make sure I dont make unecessary trips. My 2003 SCed TLS gets over 30mpg hwy and 20-25 city. And with the numerous referance to the Ford Model T, how much did that thing weigh again? MPG isnt just about an engine, it has to do with weight too. You cant have a puny low powered motor in a 4000 lb car because you will get very shitty MPG. I think the TL-G is a very good idea but unrealistic. Maybe with the cylinder deactivation feature or a Hybrid you could squeeze out a few extra MPG but for the extra cost its not very smart. Theres really no way to get over 40MPG in a car that weighs over 3500lbs. For the ethanol statement, those cars on etahnol only get like 10-12 MPG on ethanol and that stuff is still over $2.00/gal. I seriously doubt gas will see over $6 here anytime soon and if it does there will be a new form of fuel that is much more efficient than oil.