BEAR-AvHistory

Yeah twin turbos will do that. BTW the 335 does not feel fast it is fast. That being said I am still thinking about my test drives in the 135 & new M-3 last month.

The 135 is definetly quicker then the 335. The 414hp V8 M3 is a monster but IMHO a Z06 is a better buy for the price.

Aman

My best friend's dad recently test drove both, and picked the 135. Not the best looking, but quicker, better handling, better gas.

kinda heavy for its size though.

:cough: GT-R :cough:

BEAR-AvHistory

Two possible answers to this statement

1. You have never pushed your TL

2. You have no idea what torques steer is.

Only the most died in the wool TL fanboi would ever try to claim the car has no torque steer when its being pushed.

As far as the BMW having rear wheel torque steer, see #2 above, the hi performance 1&3 series are much easier to drive fast then the TL is. Steering is lite & precise, brakes are solid & the suspension is more compliant & the cars weight distribution is a balanced 50/50 not a nose heavy 62/38

vincethe1

don't say the manual will have to go....that's the reason i bought a tl basically.

BEAR-AvHistory

Agree, I will most likely get a 135 convertible to replace my 330 convertible. Will wait a while till the first on the block premium pricing wares off.

On the R just like anything else, when they start getting production cars it will be interesting to see if the numbers hold up.

Also they will come in such limited numbers that MSRP will be a joke with a mega premium tacked onto it. Then next years top Vette ZR1 will be $100K with 638HP & 600+ FT-LB of torque will make life more interesting in the fast lane.

This will also leave some room to boost the power of the regular models

vincethe1

you like biting into these things don't you...

1. I drive my TL to the limit every day.

2. I know exactly what torque steer is and i clarified it in my next post....

Only a complete FWD hater would say that the TL has bad torque steer...the 2 front axles are made the same length and tq steer is caused by 1 wheel gripping more than the other in the TL...although the LSD helps eliminate it.

when pushing your car to the limit torque steer should not be an issue for you bacause you should be alert enough to hold your wheel straight...the car has power steering so it's not that hard to hold the damn wheel straight and point it where it should go.

if you think accelerating is a circus act of "look, i can drive with no hands"...then you can get rwd....otherwise fwd TL and the mild "tq steer" that it has does not bother me.

have a good 1

Aman

actualy that's exactly the model he got...a silver 135i convertible to replace his 2000 328i

Yeah, I think it's 1200 or 12,000 per year?

against the ZR1...I've always liked Corvettes, and the ZR1 will kill them all...well almost.

not the GT-R Spec-V...

BEAR-AvHistory

Actually I don't hate FWD, its nice for guys who have to deal with snow, but I can't name one high performance car that is front wheel drive, can you?

It seem like everyone including Chevy & Pontiac, not to mention, Cadillac, Lexus, Infinity etc transition to RWD as they pass through 300HP. Must be a valid reason for this switch by the others & most likely a platform limitation as the reason Honda has not made the switch.

Honda is selling a semi-luxury car on an economy/intermediate (Accord) platform & are stuck with it. The other brands all have unique platforms designed from the ground up for their performance cars.

For example as soon as the Lexus brand moves into its performance lines it abandonds the Camrey platform used on the entry level Lexus

BTW I did not say FWD was bad, just that it was there & it being there makes it more problematic to drive fast then if it was not there. It also limited how much power & torque you can package into the chassis.

That being said you initially claimed.

Now you are saying

So which is it none or 'mild'? BTW

Holding the wheel straight is not generally accepted as the best way to get through a corner.

Torque steer caused by throttle position changes while corning is where the TL torque steer issue really stands out & why its harder to drive quickly then a RWD Sport sedan over the exact same stretch of road.

BEAR-AvHistory

Got my first Vette in 1962

My 2004 330 is at 55,000+ miles now but will most likely wait till the fall before swapping them. Not sure what color the current one is silver gray, the TL is Graphite & Expedition EL silver smoke. Gotta get a new color




Believe the number is 1200. They are only expected to make 2500 ZR1's a year so they will also be off the chart price wise. Interesting this is the current base Vette with the performace pack is faster/quicker then the original 2002 C5-generation Z06

vincethe1

keep the wheel straight when going straight...turn it when there is a turn.

what i'm trying to say is have a firm hold of the wheel when you are driving the car to it's limits.

picking out every word i say and taking a completely different meaning for the sake of making fun of it because there isn't anything logical you could say back is frankly....immature.

deltaboxxx

iTrader: (1)

You guys are both being immature. This is a thread about the new upcomming tl and others. Not about who can drive better or can hold the wheel straight. I'm suprised a mod hasn't told you to get on topic or get out yet.

vincethe1

^^^he actually did, see post 2193 on page 55

lol...well i'm stopping anyways, it's not worth it...besides, i always seem to argue with him we'll never get it straight so w/e

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

just for the record... above 5mph... power steering is off

SilverJ

all this talk about HP and performance....
Do all of you drive Autos ? Isnt the much bigger issue if the 6 speed goes away ?
I have no idea why anyone would even want a sport sedan with an automatic. It really bitch-izes the car IMO...

BEAR-AvHistory

Depends.

For Acurzine members a bit more then for the general buying public. For Honda the 6MT is a very small slice of the total TL production. Do they want to do a redesign to hold the higher HP engines for a limited market segment?

I don't think they can build a competitive 6MT on the current platform with competitors already pushing 330hp+.

Additionally, the new Accord 4 door is the size of the RL so its not unreasonable to expect the TL to bloat up a bit.

BMW has the 1 series at 300hp - 300ft-lb of torque. With the new M3 at over 400hp (old one was 333) there is a lot of growth room for a boost increase to up the power. The G-37 is already at 330HP so you can expect to see that engine in the current 306HP 4 door. The Lexus IS is already getting 306HP out of a 3.5 engine.

And like them or not Chevy & Pontiac are pushing 361HP - 389FT-LB torque for under $33,000. The 400HP/6MT versions will be out in 09. BTW for you American car haters (even though the TL is an American car) the G-8 & its Chevy sibling are Australian cars.

Overall I think the TL is a fine car nicely done & quick for its power. That being said if the 09 looks like I think it will look & its either under powered or lacks a 6MT I will move on when its time to replace it.

Aman

I don't think that you can compare the G8 with the TL. the TL is also supposed to be aluxury car, while the G8, frankly, isn't.

This goes back to what I was saying earlier, if Acura wats to shoot over the top of the competition like they did with the 3g, this would be a good car to introduce an automated manual, and then put it in the 2010 NSX.

I also get the feeling that if Acura doesn't have a brand-new engine up it's sleeve, the 2012 Type-S will have to be turbocharged or superchared, which would be kinda cool.

Does anyone have a video of the TL mule lapping a track (was it nurburgring?)

BEAR-AvHistory

Neither is the TL.....when one of the most common sayings here is its a great car "for the money".

"For the money" does not describe "Luxury" it defines practical. The definition of Luxury is "something superfluous". In other words its expensive but the price is not a factor.

In 2007 the average price of a new car was over $28,000 & IIRC guys here are claiming 29K with incentives for 08 TL's. I paid $30 for my 06 at the end of the model year with incentives. Both the 04 BMW & 08 Expedition were considerably more at $45+.

BTW I agree the TL is a very good buy.

mista.huynh

iTrader: (4)

Even with the awd and the weight. Acura wouldn't make a 4th gen that's worst/slower than before. Just give Acura time and some credit Once we finally see it and test drive it. We shall all be happy customers :P

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

Two words: Atlanta Traffic

vincethe1

just for the record...power steering is not something with an on/off switch, atleast for hydraulic power steering which is the case with the TL.

the thing is that above 5mph you don't need any power steering and steering movement is not sharp so yuo don't feel it.

but if you drift for example and need to throw the wheel around quickly then you will see how it would come to some aid.

vincethe1

Three words: What About It?





if you can't drive a manual in traffic you can't drive a manual.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

Its not that I can't drive a manual in traffic its that I don't want to drive a manual in traffic. Clutch + stop/go traffic = no fun.

BEAR-AvHistory

Which is why about 90% of the TL's are delivered with 5AT.

Bearcat94

It's not just about traffic, but about practicality in general.

My daily driver is VERY unlikely to be a "fun" or "sporty" car - just won't happen in present circumstances.

My wife's daily driver MUST be an auto, 'cause she can't/won't drive stick.

I can't/won't buy a third car as "fun" car (at least not at the present time).

That means for me, the "fun" car, the "sporty" car, also has to be my wife's daily driver. IOW - I need a "fun" automatic for evening/week-end driving.


I'd love to see a 6-Speed DSG/SMT in the next version TL/TL-S. Best of both worlds, IMHO.

dr_brains510

me too....the DSG is actually faster than the traditional manual...so i'm hoping the 4th generation would at least have that option/feature

TeLiciouS

AMEN!!

Aman

The TL is definetely a great buy, but that doesn't mean the TL isn't a luxury car as well.

This segment is very competitive, and price is definetely one thing the TL holds above the competition.

That doesn't mean the TL is cheap. Relatively, yes, compared to cars like the G35, A4, and especially the 3-series. In it's own right, no.

First off, the $28,000 average price for a new car in 2007 was probably the MSRP. MSRP-wise, the 2008 TL base is $33-$34,000, a fair bit above the $28k average price.

So it is expensive in it's own right, but still a good car for the money. That must mean it must have a lot of features, which it does.

"for the money" can describe any class of cars. A GT-R is a good car for the money, but doesn't skimp on anything. It's the same thing with the TL

Jason

This thread is getting WAY off topic. If you don't have news, information, or speculation about the 2009 TL, don't post. This thread is getting too long and the information is getting too short. How about a different topic:

Why all the secrecy of the 2009 TL? This has been unusual, even for Honda's standards. No auto show, no official information, no prototype, no concept, and the vehicle is supposed to go on sale in six months. Dealership owners have seen it and they can only say it's going to be amazing.

What are they hiding?

paliknight

you guys are forgetting that they cant make the base 2009 TL with too much HP/Torque because they probably will release a type-S version of the car which will have even more HP/torque. basically, if they put around 330HP in a base, that means the Type-S will have atleast 350-360HP. and i doubt they would put that much power in a TL. but who knows. hopefully im wrong.

BEAR-AvHistory

Which puts its MSRP below most, if not all, full sized SUV's & a large number of full sized pickup trucks.

Its hard to come to grips with a 'Luxury' car that costs less then a pickup or SUV especially when they have petty much the same equipment.

Wait hold that on the equipment, the TL/TL-S does not have cooled seats just heated, the AT only has 5 speeds not 6 & the wheels are 17/18" not 20". I would have to take a good look to see something my Luxury TL has that my Expedition, F-150 truck based, SUV does not.

At the same time the truck has a lot of toys besides the ones listed above the TL doesn't offer.

BEAR-AvHistory

I don't think anyone is forgetting that, I guess with the 08 Accord's pushing the power up the 2009 TL will be about 300hp to keep the spread. When they get around to a "S" a 10% bump will put at 330HP if they can figure out how to package it.

I can't see 330HP in a TL without some type of AWD & most likely a 6AT. I don't think they will redesign the 6MT to take the torque of a 330HP engine. It too expensive for such a small market

So unless they source it from outside I don't think they have anything on the shelf, like from a truck, that is usable in a high output package.

Aman

true, but that's a totally different class. naturally, a full-size pickup or SUV will be expensive because of its sheer size and power needed to pull it around.

true on the luxury car that costs less than a pickup, but again, sheer size. for equal comparison, a QX56 is more expensive than a Titan or Armada because it has more equipment, amenities etc. even though they are based on the same platform.

But your Expedition is a much newer car, being introduced last year, while this TL is the same one from 2004. The expedition is also a really nice car. I bet when the '09 TL comes out, it will have plenty more than your expedition.

one thing the TL comes with that the Expedition does not is high resale value, better performance...better fuel economy

you make a valid point...but we're getting way off topic here.

Aman

Suspense? maybe they want to get rid of the '08s before showing the '09 so that people won't wait and leave leftovers sitting at the dealership...

Aman

yes but the type-S (judging by Acura's habits) will come out around 2012. By that time, the norm might be 340-350, which the Type-S will hopefuly at least match, if not exceed.

This is what I think will be the lineup

2009 TL Base ($36-$38,000 Base): 5 or 6AT, FWD 280-290 hp.
2009 TL Sport ($38-$40,000): 6AT or 6MT, SH-AWD, 300-310 hp, better brakes, suspension
2012 TL Type-S ($42,000+): 6AT, 6MT, or auto-man, 335-350 hp, better brakes, suspension

waynema

iTrader: (1)

Just read Car and Driver June 08 issue. On page 44, there is the 2009 Acura TL picture. Dont know if you guys seen this yet but anyway, if you haven't, go check it out.
300 hp 3.7L V6 for about $35,000

not bad...

darksom1

Nah, trust me, there are loads of bargain-shoppers waiting for that 2009 to drop on the lot - so that the "prices can drop" on the 2008's and below!

blakura

In my opinion, luxury doesn't have to be overpriced and tell me that the TL isn't packed with luxury features with the added bonus of performace and good looks

blakura

+1

blakura

That's a likely scenerio, as much as we hate it, but a good business move by Acura, also, many competitors copy the TL and Acura probably wants to give them less time to imitate. Prolong the amount of time that the TL is the only car with whatever feature that only it has, keep the other guys at the drawing board while TL fly off the shelf.

vincethe1

seriously guys...every new post on here should be with news about the 2009 TL...not pointless arguments about whatever you want....if you saw a 2009 TL on the street...PLEASE let us know...if you heard rumors/specs about the 4G TL...let us know, if you're gonna argue about personal preferences and opinions, you should be on a thread with a different title.