Hey guys, sorry if there has been a thread made like this, is actually a seperate issue that has been covered previously, or is even in the wrong sub-forum. I did my best with the search tool but can't guarantee I didn't miss something (I most likely did).

I drive a 2005 A/T tl with 71500 miles, and frequently when driving during an acceleration from 0 to roughly around 45 mph the car will shift into third gear around 3500 rpm. I feel that this is quite high and can actually feel the shift sometimes worse than others (i can feel the transmission disengage third gear and re-engage in fourth gear, which feels like the car jolts forward).

Note: I recently had the transmission fluid changed [less than 10k miles ago]

I don't feel as though I have a lead foot. The pedal is certainly a long way from anywhere being close to the floor. In fact under similar pedal pressure in sport shift mode [or whatever its called] if i shift at appropriate times (anywhere from 2200-3000rpm) the car shifts perfectly smooth.

So my question is simply this, Is my car in fact hesitating in third gear for whatever reason and need to have sensors checked, do other drivers have similar shift rpm's, or do i need to just try and lay off the pedal a little more?

Thanks for any help, sorry if there are other threads similar to this, and I'm glad to finally be a member on the forums.

 

it should shift smooth all the time

What fluid did you use in the trans- Honda ATF??
and what method--the drain 3 qts and replace, or the 3x3 doing that ,
or a shop used a machine??- which would be really bad

see the threads in DIY for cleaning selenoids and replacing trans filter
that might help

 

when cold car will hold each gear longer as well under light acelleration trans should easily shift at 2K or less

 

I believe a shop unfortunately used a machine. I could be mistaken though. It was before I read about how a flush is bad for our trannys unfortunately so i was oblivious. I am thinking of doing a 4x4 drain and refill actually to see if that helps.

However the transmission was doing this prior to the flush and is actually the reason i chose to have the fluid changed.

I do appreciate the suggestion of the solenoids seeing as how I was thinking this may be the problem. I also considered the third gear trans oil pressure sensor, but don't have a lot of cash to be throwing around on possible problems rather than for sure problems.


I do realize that the transmission holds its gears longer when running from cold. However, up to 3500 rpm is excessive. I can't imagine I am running the car that hard but I suppose it is possible. I will try to take note of what rpm and speed each gear shifts at tomorrow on my commute, at this point it is fairly predictable what areas of my drive it does this at.

I at one point had a transmission shop go for a ride along with me and they didn't notice any problems and offered the suggestion that it was winter and that the car is built that way. However, I KNOW 3500 rpm is too high for summer driving now that its warm. They offered to let me leave the car there to be checked the next day but that wasn't an option at the time.

My parents have an 07 A/T tl type s. They claim its shifting is a little rough as well but I have not been able to compare to my car yet seeing as how it is still a new car to them and don't like to share, and I have little spare time as is.

If anyone has any ideas on diagnosing my problems without a shop tearing my trans apart I would appreciate it. I have an extended warranty that should cover things but I would like to have an idea of what the problem is if there is one.

On a side note, is it normal procedure for an acura dealer to charge a $100 diagnostic fee just to take a ride along in my car, probably never even lifting the hood?

 

yes it is normal

 

Pressure switches?

 

Aftermarket fluid and 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches will cure it.

During normal driving mine will shift at 2,500rpm but I drive very easy.

I came from high torque American cars so it took a little getting used to. Where I could accelerate past traffic from a redlight and barely hit 2,000rpms in my GN, the TL is hitting 4,000rpm. It's normal for them to shift a little high compared to other cars. However, if you're truly not giving it much throttle and it's shifting high, it's probably the switches. $80 if you do it yourself.

 

You check the fluid after the change? Does it have a hint of black, or is it red? It might just need another change or 2.

Do you know what kind of fluid that the shop used?

 

I appreciate everyone's suggestions.

To answer a few questions: I do not know what fluid they used. My father handled the transaction and i told him to make sure they used honda atf z-1 fluid, however, i have my doubts he did this. He feels generic things work with everything.

As I previously stated the transmission has been doing this for a while and was doing it before I had the fluid changed 5000 miles ago.

I believe the problem is likely electrical and not mechanical. The car feels fine when shifting through gears manually.

I have a day off work tomorrow so I think I am gonna drive around town a little bit to drive the car harder and softer to see how it will affect the issue.

I think I am going to call acura and go ahead and bite the bullet on the diagnostic fee if I don't get any results driving tomorrow; I need to know what is causing this for certain. Hopefully they do a thorough check and don't just tell me 'Sounds like you need a transmission fluid change. That will be $100 for the diagnosis.'

If anyone has any more last minute advice, before I call sometime tomorrow, I really do appreciate it.

 

I answered it already. You can spend $100 for diagnostics then replace the switches or you can spend $80 for the swtiches the first time.

 

Do you reccomend replacing the switches or the sensors? I read through all eleven pages of your thread on the sensors and feel confident that it might help me out.

Would resetting my ecu as described on i believe page 10 of that page help the problem?

I have an extended warranty through AUL which is my reasoning for taking it to acura. if they find a problem, the warranty covers the issue (or they are supposed to....) and i pay no diagnostic fee. If they find no problems then i pay them $100 for wasting their time. So i am kind of torn between replacing the sensors and letting them check it out. I don't know if diagnosing the sensors is an easy thing to check or not.

Any advice which route to go?

 

I believe the pressure sensors / switches are the same thing?

I would get them, they helped my old 3G's shifts tremendously and it's easy to install. Go for it!

 

Definately do the reset first. That may fix your problem for free.

I'm sorry, I accidentally interchange "sensors" and "switches" all the time. It would be the switches mentioned in that thread I started.

I would hate for you to waste your money. I'm barely scraping by myself right now so $80 wasted can be a lot. I feel pretty confident that the sensors will do it.

The reason I suggest switches over a diagnostic is if the car does not have a check engine light and it's not throwing a code, all they're going to do is plug in the scanner and tell you no codes were found. Then they're going to drive it and tell you everything is normal. The typical tech relies solely on the scanner to tell them if something is wrong. If it throws no codes, most of them are very, very poor troubleshooters.

It would literally have to either have codes of be shifting at 6,000rpm at light throttle before they would say there is a problem.

At least with the switches you have a greater than 50% chance of fixing it. But keep in mind, the reset can have a huge effect on the shift rpms so you may be happy after that.

 

Well i reset the ecu and took it for a test drive tonight.

I did notice a slight difference in driving. Either the car shifts sooner or i slightly modified my driving style for the ride.

In either case, I still clearly notice when the car shifts between 2nd and 3rd. Nothing headjerking on this ride, but still quite noticeable. Much more so than 1st to second though. This leads me to believe it is indeed the pressure sensors since there are no 1st and 2nd pressure sensors.

I am going to take the car over to a family friend's transmission shop monday or tuesday have him ride along with me and talk to him about the pressure sensors to see what he thinks.

 

Went by the shop today and did the free ride along.

He said he believes it is possibly a band that is slightly worn at the edges, o slightly worn clutch, or possibly the sensors. He wanted $80 to hook it up to a computer that monitors all kinds of conditions inside the transmission.

For $80 I'd rather just buy the sensors put them in and if they don't cure the issue go from there.

However, before I go for the switches out of pocket, is there any possible way I could get the extended warranty to cough up the cash for it you guys think? I'm just concerned they might confirm there is a problem but not acknowledge it is simply the sensors and unnecessarily dismantle my transmission. is there ANY way for the acura dealer to accurately detect whether the sensors are failing aside from swapping the sensor? I read that the resistance could possibly correlate with the reliability of the sensor and that anything lower than a certain reading is out of spec, can anyone confirm that a failing sensor will fall outside of this minimum spec?

Thanks guys

 

My 04 auto with 106000 on it does the same thing. It started around 79000 took it to dealership they said i need a new transmission because the torque converter is going bad. But that was 27000 miles ago and its still running

 

Went ahead and ordered the sensors and gaskets from acuraoemparts.com

While I was at it I picked up a few minor things rather than buying them at the dealership including:
-Glovebox light bulb
-Steering wheel HFL bulb
-2 Air Box nut-washers [1 the head rounded off, the other is 2mm too long given to me as replacement for free by dealer w/o warranty]
Just some small things that have been buggin me for a while. $90 shipped for all the parts is pretty dang good i'd say.

Will hopefully have the parts in before I return to college August 14 and will post back here with results of the sensors.

 

put the new sensors in the other day, gave it 2 days to see if I noticed a difference. Same problem still persists.

At this point I don't know what to do. I leave for school this coming Sunday.

 

the shifting depends on how hard you press the gas pedal ... would you say you drive your car moderately aggresively? my car shifts at 2500 but i feel like im feathering the pedal

 

I wouldn't say I am an aggressive driver. Moderately aggressive...possibly....its hard to say since its a matter of opinion, My car shifts later than 2500 rpm. Maybe closer to 2800 when accelerating on level ground.

The weird thing is, when I do get on the pedal harder than normal, I don't feel the shift as prominently as with my normal driving style.

 

time to start looking into getting the transmission checked out......sounds like you got some problems that the "quick fixes" did not resolve.

 

Not true for a 3rd gen. You would get run over if you tried to get it to shift at 2K or below. In fact, when cruising through my neighborhood with my foot barely on the throttle it shifts at 2-2.2K rpm and this is barely above a steady state 30mph.

Normal light acceleration shift points are 2.2 to 2.5K and that's taking it very easy. Keeping up with the flow of traffic from a redlight is easily 2.5 to 3,000rpm and many times if traffic is aggressive it can shoot up to 4K.

To the OP, do you still think there's a problem? I only wish you would have done the drain and fill with an aftermarket fluid. It won't change the shift points but it would soften them up a lot.

 

I don't believe the shift points are truely the problem anymore, I originally thought the transmission held its gear longer than what it should for my acceleration habits but from what you and others have posted I don't believe thats true anymore.

I can't justify doing a fluid change at this point, maybe if i run out of other options I will. The transmission was doing this before I had the fluid changed and is still doing it afterwards.

My mom has an '07 Type-S that I drove last night for comparative purposes again and I can notice some shifts in the car *similar* to mine where they are very prominent but none quite as bad as mine.

Could motor mounts cause this?

I do notice a light vibration at idle in the steering column that disappears when placed in neutral or when accelerated away from idle. I always just assumed it was a resonance vibration from my exhaust or elsewhere. Possibly related maybe?


Anyways, tomorrow I am taking a day off work and am gonna try and locate an '05 A/T to test drive for comparison, I'm beginning to think feeling these shifts may be normal; and if not it will give me the confidence to buck up the $100 for a ride along at the dealer.

Thanks again for trying guys. Having the sensors in gives me more confidence down the road, just need to get the problems I'm having now fixed up.

EDIT: Just read similar thread about the vibration at idle, possibly my torque converter or I need to do an idle relearn. Thoughts??

 

yes it is

when cold the car will delay shifting into the next gear on the auto. it is to help the engine warm up faster.......clearly states this in the owner's manual

driven enough of them in the winter time to know......... and btw I never have to go above 2.5K on the tach to keep up with normal traffic in town the only time I ever go above 3K is when I am merging onto the expressway.........

OP your motor mounts going bad would result in excessive idle vibration, harsh engagement and maybe a more pronounced 1-2 shit cause one the mount is compressed (ie engine under load) you can't really tell a good one from a bad one. got any leaks under your car where the mounts are?

 

I think you will argue with anything I say even if I say the sky is blue and it's getting pretty annoying. I've proven you wrong on everything transmission related for the last week yet you still insist on ignoring my points and finding something, anything to argue about. Now it's shift points. It's pretty funny. Annoying but funny.

Yes, most cars shift at a higher rpm when cold. I was not talking about this.

You're dead wrong on normal shift points. I own and drive a 3G every day. You don't. Once again, you would get run over in most major cities trying to keep it below 2,500rpm.

 

Vibration at idle that goes away in neutral or reverse almost for sure a mount. You can first check to make sure the vacuum line is attached from the intake to the mount for a potential free fix. I think mine had a soft or broken mount almost from day one. I had a shop replace the mounts when they did some work on the car and I could barely tell the engine was running at idle which was better than the day I bought the car new.

 

Could mounts really cause the shifting issue as well though? If thats the case that would make me a very happy camper to fix 2 issues at once. I can see the front motor mount just by opening the hood, is there any way to get a quick look at the other mounts. Will a visual inspection of the mounts even yield results or does a mechanic need to inspect them.

I am having front rotors replaced in a few days by a mechanic who is a family friend (there are a lot of things I will do myself but brakes isn't one of them). Should I ask him to give it a quick look through and see what he thinks about the problems I've been having?

Strangely it seems the vibration gets worse in reverse if that matters??

No leaks to speak of. Had the car up on jackstands for a solid 36 hours the other day and didn't see a drop.

Problematic shifts are 2->3, 3->4, and occasionally 4->5 as well as the reverse downshifts in some cases. 1->2 hasn't been a problem that I've noticed.

 

I would definately locate the vacuum line that comes out of the front mount and follow it up to the manifold and make sure it's connected.

Different mounts being broken can cause different issues. You can always test buy taking a look under the hood while someone powerbrakes it in drive and in reverse. Basically you set the parking brake, push the brakes had and give it sharp throttle imputs to see how much the engine rocks back and forth. Do it in both drive and reverse. If it rocks more one way than the other it will help you locate which mount is broken or soft.

But definately try the vacuum line first. The purpose of this line is to soften the mount at idle when engine vacuum is at it's highest and firm up the mount as you apply more and more throttle as engine vacuum decreases. If the line comes off or has a leak the mount firms up the same as if you were at full throttle.

 

Excuse my ignorance but I didn't see a vacuum line attached to the mount. Can you tell me which side of the mount when facing the front of the car it should be attached to.

 

Never mind, I found the line. Followed it up and didn't see any issues.

 

I am experiencing hard shifting as well in my 07 TL-S. Was beginning to believe its a trans issue (hoping it is not) however I have to try out the 3x3 trans flush and 3 and 4th gear pressure sensors.
Sucks that I have to do this since I just recently picked up the car. However I really do not trust the dealer I picked it up from. Since the car is still under warranty, I am wondering if this is covered? Also have an extended warranty...

Driving in Auto, it shifts fine. You can still feel the shifts. But, in manual mode (whether using the shifter or paddle shifters) the shifts are hard in my opinion. At times, I feel the car slightly launch forward and then get back to the speed I am in. At one point, I paddle shifted from 2md to 3rd during a hard acceleration and the car - what seemed like- bogged about 3 times before catching the gear.. pretty weird..

Any input?

OP - Sorry if I am intruding in your thread....

 

Do you have any other acura dealers around that you do trust? It should absolutely be covered by warranty unless your past your mileage. You may want to do a 3x3 but if its under warranty you may want to hold off on the sensors and have the dealer give it a run through first.

 

Sport Shift is designed for aggressive driving and from what an acura technican told me, raises the pressures in the transmission for better shifts (racing shifts are firm and direct, not smooth). In your experience, during normal driving your car is fine with it's smooth shifts. But in SS mode, the car is doing what it's programmed to do. As well the TL-S rev matches on down-shifts for better ones. As far as your hard acceleration incident, the Paddle shifters have some lag, about 200 RPMs or so. Thus if you shifted at redline, the car would have bounced off the rev limiter causing the bogging, and then shifted.

 

Just to give everyone an update.

Problem still persists. Havent had it at the dealership yet since I have to take it to the dealer I purchased the warranty through and I am away at school.

Also noticed a lack of power in reverse. Maybe its my imagination??

Vibration through the steering column is still there as well. Off and on at idle in drive but always there at idle in reverse.

 

^Any updates?