My 3.7 mani, ZDX TB, and pnp runners build thread
10-29-2012, 10:09 AM
#163
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I for 1 will mentioned that pnp will gain you quite some amount of power....Manifold, not as much but Runners ohh hell yeah !!!
This is how my setup sits, polished and bored TB...ported and polished manifold (inlet was not ported as much as the TB outlet is smaller....runners were ported and polished....OEM diameter was 44mm and these are ported and polished to 45.xmm...the manifold was port matched with the runners inlet.....
the outlet of the runners which goes to the head was just polished and not ported as the heads are not ported....
I also have a 4" intake to provide all the air....in retrospect a 3.5" intake will do and fit the opening just fine....I still dont regret getting a 4" intake
This is how my setup sits, polished and bored TB...ported and polished manifold (inlet was not ported as much as the TB outlet is smaller....runners were ported and polished....OEM diameter was 44mm and these are ported and polished to 45.xmm...the manifold was port matched with the runners inlet.....
the outlet of the runners which goes to the head was just polished and not ported as the heads are not ported....
I also have a 4" intake to provide all the air....in retrospect a 3.5" intake will do and fit the opening just fine....I still dont regret getting a 4" intake
10-29-2012, 12:33 PM
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10-31-2012, 02:21 PM
#170
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Ok so Im about to order all of the parts I need to do the Intake Mani, TB swap...
Couple questions. I see that there are a couple people saying diff things about gaskets needing to be port matched... I plan on getting these items PnP before I install them so what gaskets will I need, which brand and how do I port match them? Should I give them to the company i have doing my PnP to do that as well?
Also will I need any sort of adapter to make the ZDX TB swap work on my 07 TL-S?
Couple questions. I see that there are a couple people saying diff things about gaskets needing to be port matched... I plan on getting these items PnP before I install them so what gaskets will I need, which brand and how do I port match them? Should I give them to the company i have doing my PnP to do that as well?
Also will I need any sort of adapter to make the ZDX TB swap work on my 07 TL-S?
10-31-2012, 02:41 PM
#172
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I also would like to purchase new intake runners to install as well... I believe I saw somewhere that I could buy them already PnP but cant remember where. If anyone knows as well I would love a link. If not, what is a factory part number for these intake runners so I could just have them PnP when I do the rest of the parts.
10-31-2012, 08:05 PM
#173
Burning Brakes
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I also would like to purchase new intake runners to install as well... I believe I saw somewhere that I could buy them already PnP but cant remember where. If anyone knows as well I would love a link. If not, what is a factory part number for these intake runners so I could just have them PnP when I do the rest of the parts.
P2R ported runners: P2R - P323
http://throwdownperformance.com/inde...oducts_id=1542
http://www.maperformance.com/p2r-eng...ners-p323.html
10-31-2012, 08:09 PM
#174
Burning Brakes
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Ok so Im about to order all of the parts I need to do the Intake Mani, TB swap...
Couple questions. I see that there are a couple people saying diff things about gaskets needing to be port matched... I plan on getting these items PnP before I install them so what gaskets will I need, which brand and how do I port match them? Should I give them to the company i have doing my PnP to do that as well?
Also will I need any sort of adapter to make the ZDX TB swap work on my 07 TL-S?
Couple questions. I see that there are a couple people saying diff things about gaskets needing to be port matched... I plan on getting these items PnP before I install them so what gaskets will I need, which brand and how do I port match them? Should I give them to the company i have doing my PnP to do that as well?
Also will I need any sort of adapter to make the ZDX TB swap work on my 07 TL-S?
P2R thermal gasket openings are larger than stock runners/IM outlet. I don't know why, because it is sold as a replacement part for OEM, but you will lose power for sure if you use the P2R without port-matching everything - the size mismatch would cause turbulence you don't want.
If you port the runners/IM outlets, either way the gasket will need to probably be matched to some extent, so whether you go with OEM or aftermarket like Outlaw's or P2R, give it to your shop so they can match it.
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11-01-2012, 03:53 PM
#176
Burning Brakes
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I'm dependent on other people to scan my documents, which probably would suggest how often I actually have to do such a thing.
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Sonnick (11-01-2012)
11-01-2012, 09:09 PM
#178
Burning Brakes
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SO, here's what we got - the correction factor is pretty telling. 1.03 vs .99 - not a good day to dyno.
Here is uncorrected:
Here is SAE corrected:
and here are the conditions and correction factors:
11-02-2012, 08:14 AM
#179
ZDX TB requires no adapter for type-s. All you need to do is swap over the MAP sensor which is the little black plug that sits on top of the throttlebody. One phillips screw and it will twist right out.
P2R thermal gasket openings are larger than stock runners/IM outlet. I don't know why, because it is sold as a replacement part for OEM, but you will lose power for sure if you use the P2R without port-matching everything - the size mismatch would cause turbulence you don't want.
If you port the runners/IM outlets, either way the gasket will need to probably be matched to some extent, so whether you go with OEM or aftermarket like Outlaw's or P2R, give it to your shop so they can match it.
P2R thermal gasket openings are larger than stock runners/IM outlet. I don't know why, because it is sold as a replacement part for OEM, but you will lose power for sure if you use the P2R without port-matching everything - the size mismatch would cause turbulence you don't want.
If you port the runners/IM outlets, either way the gasket will need to probably be matched to some extent, so whether you go with OEM or aftermarket like Outlaw's or P2R, give it to your shop so they can match it.
Ok; I didn't know I will have to swap MAP sensor. Glad I didn't find out the hard way.
Also I do not plan to match the ZDX TB with the 3.7 TL manifold or match my stock runners. Anyone see any issues with that?
11-02-2012, 08:56 AM
#180
Burning Brakes
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2) stock runners (all TL 04-08) match perfectly to the 3.7 manifold. You only need to match if you plan to port both the IM outlets and the inlets for the runners.
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t0talacuratl (11-02-2012)
11-02-2012, 06:28 PM
#183
Burning Brakes
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I am sure if I dyno'ed again it would read a bit higher, but realistically probably in the 1 whp range. The important thing to note about the ZDX TB is it's already quite large, so you cannot bore it that much. I was only able to squeeze about 3.5 mm out of it.
On that note, once I get my 4" intake, i'm going to dyno again obviously, compare and post results in this thread.
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Sonnick (11-02-2012)
11-02-2012, 09:23 PM
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^^^ ported and polished runners have made more than 10WHP...i remember someone posting a dyno on ....(sonnick do you have the link to that member on ?)
i_love_cars....you have done a good mod but you have to realize 2 things,
more air
higher velocity and lower restrictions....
you have done the more air mod but port matching and polishing will yield you ponies as well....
for people who want to squeeze every HP out of the cars, porting and polishing is a no brainer !!!
i_love_cars....you have done a good mod but you have to realize 2 things,
more air
higher velocity and lower restrictions....
you have done the more air mod but port matching and polishing will yield you ponies as well....
for people who want to squeeze every HP out of the cars, porting and polishing is a no brainer !!!
11-03-2012, 01:33 AM
#185
Suzuka Master
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^^^ ported and polished runners have made more than 10WHP...i remember someone posting a dyno on ....(sonnick do you have the link to that member on ?)
i_love_cars....you have done a good mod but you have to realize 2 things,
more air
higher velocity and lower restrictions....
you have done the more air mod but port matching and polishing will yield you ponies as well....
for people who want to squeeze every HP out of the cars, porting and polishing is a no brainer !!!
i_love_cars....you have done a good mod but you have to realize 2 things,
more air
higher velocity and lower restrictions....
you have done the more air mod but port matching and polishing will yield you ponies as well....
for people who want to squeeze every HP out of the cars, porting and polishing is a no brainer !!!
JuamPs 69 pulled 4whp and someone else on here pulled 2. I just can't buy 10!
11-03-2012, 08:12 AM
#186
Burning Brakes
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^^^ ported and polished runners have made more than 10WHP...i remember someone posting a dyno on ....(sonnick do you have the link to that member on ?)
i_love_cars....you have done a good mod but you have to realize 2 things,
more air
higher velocity and lower restrictions....
you have done the more air mod but port matching and polishing will yield you ponies as well....
for people who want to squeeze every HP out of the cars, porting and polishing is a no brainer !!!
i_love_cars....you have done a good mod but you have to realize 2 things,
more air
higher velocity and lower restrictions....
you have done the more air mod but port matching and polishing will yield you ponies as well....
for people who want to squeeze every HP out of the cars, porting and polishing is a no brainer !!!
Patience, my friend, this is not my first rodeo
11-03-2012, 03:37 PM
#187
Suzuka Master
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My ZDX TB showed up today, but now I'm on the fence about whether or not to Maxbore it. Not sure if it's worth the ~$120 with shipping that it's going to cost.
I took a couple quick measurements and got ~69/79mm. I believe my bored stock tb is 66-67/71.
I took a couple quick measurements and got ~69/79mm. I believe my bored stock tb is 66-67/71.
11-03-2012, 05:04 PM
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^^^ just polish it yourself....
dont port it
dont port it
11-03-2012, 05:15 PM
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11-03-2012, 05:40 PM
#190
Burning Brakes
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the thing to remember in all this is: how far do you want to take your car?
For me, the bore on the ZDX TB was worth it as I'm getting a larger, custom intake, and if 4" doesn't work well then I'll go 3.5", whatever, and I have much larger plans for this car over the next 6 to 9 months that will tap into those extra few millimeters. Again my ZDX was bored to about 72.5, so only about +3.5 mm from its original size.
If you aren't planning on doing any head work, cams, exhaust and a real tuning solution, then there's probably no real reason to bore the ZDX TB. Just enjoy the 8-10 whp you will gain from slapping it on with the 3.7 manifold.
I maintain that, compared to 3.7 TB/IM with PnP, you will see better gains from a PnP job when you do it on stock 3G TL IM and TB - the 3.7 and ZDX TB will give you gains by themselves, but honestly there is a wall you will hit with performance gains on PnP'ing those 3.7 parts UNTIL you get a tuning solution. The ECU on our car is only going to provide so much before it taps out.
It's actually quite amazing to me that the ECU is able to respond that well to the 3.7 mods and all the other bolt-ons which adds 40 whp to the car while running relatively well.
all that said, I am holding off on anything else in the short-term while I get my ducks in a row for tuning.
For me, the bore on the ZDX TB was worth it as I'm getting a larger, custom intake, and if 4" doesn't work well then I'll go 3.5", whatever, and I have much larger plans for this car over the next 6 to 9 months that will tap into those extra few millimeters. Again my ZDX was bored to about 72.5, so only about +3.5 mm from its original size.
If you aren't planning on doing any head work, cams, exhaust and a real tuning solution, then there's probably no real reason to bore the ZDX TB. Just enjoy the 8-10 whp you will gain from slapping it on with the 3.7 manifold.
I maintain that, compared to 3.7 TB/IM with PnP, you will see better gains from a PnP job when you do it on stock 3G TL IM and TB - the 3.7 and ZDX TB will give you gains by themselves, but honestly there is a wall you will hit with performance gains on PnP'ing those 3.7 parts UNTIL you get a tuning solution. The ECU on our car is only going to provide so much before it taps out.
It's actually quite amazing to me that the ECU is able to respond that well to the 3.7 mods and all the other bolt-ons which adds 40 whp to the car while running relatively well.
all that said, I am holding off on anything else in the short-term while I get my ducks in a row for tuning.
11-03-2012, 09:30 PM
#191
SAE corrected 1.03 ? and 0.99 ? im confused why my corrected SAE 0.95 down me 266whp max and 240 wtq max ?
but my uncorrected dyno see same at your 1.00 same condition i hit
280.57 whp max and 253.30 wtq max !!!
sonnick need attention for precision for SAE corrected number vs uncorrected plz
but my uncorrected dyno see same at your 1.00 same condition i hit
280.57 whp max and 253.30 wtq max !!!
sonnick need attention for precision for SAE corrected number vs uncorrected plz
11-03-2012, 11:42 PM
#192
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Great thread. This might be the next big bolt on, especially for us NA guys. Compared to exhaust mods, gains seem to be worth the $$$. Maybe a bit pricier but not too much.
I've read through the thread several times and think I know the answers to some of these questions but wanted to confirm:
1. For us 3.2 guys, the ZDX IM should bolt right up correct?
2. We'll need to get a new IM plate. But it looks pretty sweet so it might be worth the price
3. The TL TB will work, but it would be best to go with the ZDX TB
4. Even without PnP, it looks like a minimum of 7whp or so?
I've read through the thread several times and think I know the answers to some of these questions but wanted to confirm:
1. For us 3.2 guys, the ZDX IM should bolt right up correct?
2. We'll need to get a new IM plate. But it looks pretty sweet so it might be worth the price
3. The TL TB will work, but it would be best to go with the ZDX TB
4. Even without PnP, it looks like a minimum of 7whp or so?
11-03-2012, 11:48 PM
#193
Suzuka Master
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I would say all J Series runners (wihin their respective engine designations) are created pretty much equally though. They're simple pieces of aluminum made with a mold designed on CAD. 10 whp is pretty significant on an N/A V6. It's what you gain when you get rid of a major restriction from the factory, like the cats, J pipe, cat back (less so than the J pipe) IM etc. Smoothing out a few casting ridges and adding a mm or two on those short little runners isn't going to add much of anything.
Last edited by anx1300c; 11-03-2012 at 11:50 PM.
11-04-2012, 12:05 AM
#194
All motor
The link below explains it.
http://www.land-and-sea.com/dyno-tec...horsepower.htm
Basically, SAE corrected numbers can be compared (within reason) to another Dynojet because they 'correct' the temperature, humidity, altitude, etc. This means that each car is on a level playing field. It takes out the variables of weather conditions. Of course, this is not perfect dyno to dyno. The only way to really 'compare' cars is on the same dyno on the same day IMO. I initially thought you could compare SAE corrected Dynojet to Dynojet with the utmost precision, but after seeing a fellow member's dyno compared to his trap speeds, I think a little differently.
http://www.land-and-sea.com/dyno-tec...horsepower.htm
Basically, SAE corrected numbers can be compared (within reason) to another Dynojet because they 'correct' the temperature, humidity, altitude, etc. This means that each car is on a level playing field. It takes out the variables of weather conditions. Of course, this is not perfect dyno to dyno. The only way to really 'compare' cars is on the same dyno on the same day IMO. I initially thought you could compare SAE corrected Dynojet to Dynojet with the utmost precision, but after seeing a fellow member's dyno compared to his trap speeds, I think a little differently.
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hondazex (11-04-2012)
11-04-2012, 11:06 AM
#195
Burning Brakes
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Great thread. This might be the next big bolt on, especially for us NA guys. Compared to exhaust mods, gains seem to be worth the $$$. Maybe a bit pricier but not too much.
I've read through the thread several times and think I know the answers to some of these questions but wanted to confirm:
1. For us 3.2 guys, the ZDX IM should bolt right up correct?
2. We'll need to get a new IM plate. But it looks pretty sweet so it might be worth the price
3. The TL TB will work, but it would be best to go with the ZDX TB
4. Even without PnP, it looks like a minimum of 7whp or so?
I've read through the thread several times and think I know the answers to some of these questions but wanted to confirm:
1. For us 3.2 guys, the ZDX IM should bolt right up correct?
2. We'll need to get a new IM plate. But it looks pretty sweet so it might be worth the price
3. The TL TB will work, but it would be best to go with the ZDX TB
4. Even without PnP, it looks like a minimum of 7whp or so?
2) yes
3) yes, get the zdx TB
4) Without PnP, 8 whp / 6 wtq was gained on my type-s with full supporting mods - aem intake, catback, jpipe, and HFPC's - the base TL may see better gains with those supporting mods as I think the type-s flows pretty well from the factory so the gains aren't as high.
If you don't have supporting mods particularly exhaust to help get all that extra air out, there is no empirical data to show you will gain the same amount.
11-04-2012, 11:14 AM
#196
The Track Terror
11-04-2012, 06:43 PM
#197
Drifting
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1) the 3.7 TL manifold will bolt up, but no one has confirmed the ZDX IM - only the ZDX TB. In theory it would work but no one has tried it with a ZDX intake manifold
2) yes
3) yes, get the zdx TB
4) Without PnP, 8 whp / 6 wtq was gained on my type-s with full supporting mods - aem intake, catback, jpipe, and HFPC's - the base TL may see better gains with those supporting mods as I think the type-s flows pretty well from the factory so the gains aren't as high.
If you don't have supporting mods particularly exhaust to help get all that extra air out, there is no empirical data to show you will gain the same amount.
2) yes
3) yes, get the zdx TB
4) Without PnP, 8 whp / 6 wtq was gained on my type-s with full supporting mods - aem intake, catback, jpipe, and HFPC's - the base TL may see better gains with those supporting mods as I think the type-s flows pretty well from the factory so the gains aren't as high.
If you don't have supporting mods particularly exhaust to help get all that extra air out, there is no empirical data to show you will gain the same amount.
So for us 04-06 guys, I think this is what we'd be looking at:
The list posted earlier:
94050-08080 NUT, FLANGE (8MM) 4 $0.19 $0.76
95701-08060-08 BOLT, FLANGE (8X60) 4 $0.88 $3.52
17105-RCJ-A01 GASKET, IN. MANIFOLD 1 $36.75 $36.75
92900-08050-3B BOLT, STUD (8X50) 4 $0.81 $3.24
17160-RK2-A00 MANIFOLD, IN. 1 $224.75 $224.75
16176-RYE-A10 GASKET, THROTTLE BODY 3 $0.47 $1.41
16400-RYE-A11 THROTTLE BODY, ELECTRONIC CONTROL (GMD8B) 1 $192.54 $192.54
In addition, the IM cover and the supporting hardware:
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no
IM:
003 17140-RK1-A01 COVER, IN. MANIFOLD (UPPER) 001 2010 TL 226.98 170.24
Hardware:
002 17112-RKB-003 SEAL, BORE PLATE 001 2010 TL 34.23 25.67
004 17146-R70-A01 GASKET, IN. MANIFOLD COVER (UPPER) 001 2010 TL 26.00 19.50
009 90104-RCJ-A00 BOLT, SPECIAL FLANGE (6X18) 010 2010 TL 2.75 2.06
010 90201-P8E-A00 NUT, CAP (6MM) 002 2010 TL 0.85 0.64
Anything you can see that I'm missing?
Last edited by losiglow; 11-04-2012 at 06:46 PM.
11-04-2012, 06:50 PM
#198
Drifting
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I found something else 
The actuator assembly indicated in the diagram is for the 07-13 TL. Us 04-06 guys may need to purchase it as well:
\17150-RNA-A01 ACTUATOR ASSY., BYPASS VALVE 07 - 13 TL 121.93 91.45
The actuator assembly indicated in the diagram is for the 07-13 TL. Us 04-06 guys may need to purchase it as well:
\17150-RNA-A01 ACTUATOR ASSY., BYPASS VALVE 07 - 13 TL 121.93 91.45
11-04-2012, 06:55 PM
#200
http://www.acurapartswarehouse.com/P...gPicture=False