My 3.7 mani, ZDX TB, and pnp runners build thread
10-04-2012, 10:51 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
My 3.7 mani, ZDX TB, and pnp runners build thread
For those thinking of doing the 3.7 IM/TB swap, I have compiled the relevant information from this thread to update this first post with.
This mod is recommended for people who are already bolted on with exhaust mods and want to take their car further, potentially with the tuning given in the new Flashpro solution for 07-08 TL's.
Estimated costs
1) ~ $500 for the 3.7 IM, TB, and hardware
2) ~ $150 for the IM cover plate if you have 04-06 TL
3) $100-150 for boring the Throttle body (optional)
4) $350 for porting and polishing lower intake runners and port-matching to the intake manifolds outlets, and gasket matching them.
Required Parts for swapping a 3.7 IM and Throttle body onto all 04-08 TL (base and Type-S)
94050-08080 NUT, FLANGE (8MM) 4 $0.19 $0.76
95701-08060-08 BOLT, FLANGE (8X60) 4 $0.88 $3.52
17105-RCJ-A01 GASKET, IN. MANIFOLD 1 $36.75 $36.75
92900-08050-3B BOLT, STUD (8X50) 4 $0.81 $3.24
17160-RK2-A00 MANIFOLD, IN. 1 $224.75 $224.75
16176-RYE-A10 GASKET, THROTTLE BODY 3 $0.47 $1.41
16400-RYE-A11 THROTTLE BODY, ELECTRONIC CONTROL (GMD8B) 1 $192.54 $192.54
90104-RCJ-A00 BOLT, SPECIAL FLANGE (6X18) -> get a few of these - you'll need 2 of them when you swap your IM cover plate to the new manifold because the 04-08 mani uses a couple of studs with nuts that are not present in the 3.7 manifold. On the 3.7 these are just bolt holes that you will want to fill with these bolts.
Additional Required Parts for 04-06 TL
17140-RKB-013 COVER, IN. MANIFOLD (UPPER) - this is the cover plate. This part # includes the cover plate gasket as well
Installation tips
1) Be very careful to NOT over-torque the IM cover plate bolts. It's very easy to snap the head on them
2) For the throttle body, you cannot use the MAP sensor from the 3.7 (the black sensor sticking out of the top of the TB), UNLESS you dremel the guides off so that your connector will fit over it. So you have two options. The first option is to swap your MAP sensor from your stock TB over to the new 3.7 TB, OR you can do as Anil (swoosh) did which is dremel out the guides on the 3.7 sensor so that your stock connector will fit, he took the following photo to illustrate this:
Some people who are using the 3.7 MAP sensor have reported smoother idle and less tip-in issues when letting off the gas.
3) air intake coupler - remember your 3.7 TB has an inlet size of slightly over 3.5" - I had to seriously fight with the rubber coupler on my AEM V2 intake to get it to slide over. It did fit and seal completely, but it was a pain in the ass. If you have a stock intake on your car, it may not have enough flex in the coupling to fully attach to the new Throttle body.
4) Relocation of IAT sensor - the 3.7 manifold doesn't have a bung for the IAT sensor. IF you have an AEM V2 intake, there is a bung for it near where the intake attaches to the throttlebody, facing the front of the car. You can't miss it. It's sole purpose is to house your IAT if you need to, so you can thread it right in.
a) IF YOU DO NOT HAVE AN AEM V2 INTAKE: you can relocate the IAT per Innacurate's thread here: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...age=3&t=803036
b) IAT location on a 2004-2006 TL is on the neck of the IM right where it mates with the Throttle body
c) IAT location on a 2007-2008 TL is on the main body of the IM
What to Expect After the Install
1) bouncy idle initially, ECU will figure it out for the most part after a few days, although again it sounds like if you use the MAP sensor from the 3.7 TB it will work itself out a bit faster and better
2) potential CEL for the relocation of your IAT sensor. This is the computer going crazy and is temporary - just have an OBD2 scanner reset the code and you should be good. I only got it once after driving 2 miles after the install. Haven't seen it since 5k miles later
3) minor bucking between 2500-3000 RPM's if you are just cruising and have your foot on the gas slightly - maybe 5% throttle. I also have noticed it in cruise control as well. A tune if you have Flashpro will fix this for sure.
Performance Gains
Weight reduced by a few pounds (3.7 manifold is magnesium and the 04-08 IM is aluminum)
Air/Fuel ratios evened out quite well with this mod - I had been previously running very rich with all my exhaust mods, around 11.4. Once the 3.7 was on and air flow was increased, it leaned out to more expected levels of 12.3 or so. Pretty good for stock ECU.
Without a port and polish, just the 3.7 IM/TB, I saw about 7 whp / 5 wtq gain, and I was already fully bolted on with exhaust, HFPC's, jpipe, and aem v2 intake. This is also without a tune. Here is my dyno chart of before/after:
It is assumed that a 3.2 TL would gain more from this mod as the 3.5 Type-S intake manifold flows more already, so the jump to the 3.7 isn't as big as it would be from the 3.2 platform.
With port and polish expect minimal gains over what I got - the 3.7 flows very well already. There are gains to be had with ported runners, though. to the tune of 5-10 whp. Also if you already have a PnP'ed intake manifold on your current 3.2 or 3.5 manifold, this swap to the 3.7 won't gain you much if anything.
Conclusion
This is a very important mod if you are planning to do an NA build on your car, or a supercharged application. If you are turbocharged, well....GTFO libert69 you already have 500 whp
It's an important mod to actually take advantage of any aftermarket CAI that you buy, and again is very important if you plan to have any work done on the heads, cams, etc.
Will benefit from a tune greatly but still offers good mid-range and top-end gains.
This mod is recommended for people who are already bolted on with exhaust mods and want to take their car further, potentially with the tuning given in the new Flashpro solution for 07-08 TL's.
Estimated costs
1) ~ $500 for the 3.7 IM, TB, and hardware
2) ~ $150 for the IM cover plate if you have 04-06 TL
3) $100-150 for boring the Throttle body (optional)
4) $350 for porting and polishing lower intake runners and port-matching to the intake manifolds outlets, and gasket matching them.
Required Parts for swapping a 3.7 IM and Throttle body onto all 04-08 TL (base and Type-S)
94050-08080 NUT, FLANGE (8MM) 4 $0.19 $0.76
95701-08060-08 BOLT, FLANGE (8X60) 4 $0.88 $3.52
17105-RCJ-A01 GASKET, IN. MANIFOLD 1 $36.75 $36.75
92900-08050-3B BOLT, STUD (8X50) 4 $0.81 $3.24
17160-RK2-A00 MANIFOLD, IN. 1 $224.75 $224.75
16176-RYE-A10 GASKET, THROTTLE BODY 3 $0.47 $1.41
16400-RYE-A11 THROTTLE BODY, ELECTRONIC CONTROL (GMD8B) 1 $192.54 $192.54
90104-RCJ-A00 BOLT, SPECIAL FLANGE (6X18) -> get a few of these - you'll need 2 of them when you swap your IM cover plate to the new manifold because the 04-08 mani uses a couple of studs with nuts that are not present in the 3.7 manifold. On the 3.7 these are just bolt holes that you will want to fill with these bolts.
Additional Required Parts for 04-06 TL
17140-RKB-013 COVER, IN. MANIFOLD (UPPER) - this is the cover plate. This part # includes the cover plate gasket as well
Installation tips
1) Be very careful to NOT over-torque the IM cover plate bolts. It's very easy to snap the head on them
2) For the throttle body, you cannot use the MAP sensor from the 3.7 (the black sensor sticking out of the top of the TB), UNLESS you dremel the guides off so that your connector will fit over it. So you have two options. The first option is to swap your MAP sensor from your stock TB over to the new 3.7 TB, OR you can do as Anil (swoosh) did which is dremel out the guides on the 3.7 sensor so that your stock connector will fit, he took the following photo to illustrate this:
Some people who are using the 3.7 MAP sensor have reported smoother idle and less tip-in issues when letting off the gas.
3) air intake coupler - remember your 3.7 TB has an inlet size of slightly over 3.5" - I had to seriously fight with the rubber coupler on my AEM V2 intake to get it to slide over. It did fit and seal completely, but it was a pain in the ass. If you have a stock intake on your car, it may not have enough flex in the coupling to fully attach to the new Throttle body.
4) Relocation of IAT sensor - the 3.7 manifold doesn't have a bung for the IAT sensor. IF you have an AEM V2 intake, there is a bung for it near where the intake attaches to the throttlebody, facing the front of the car. You can't miss it. It's sole purpose is to house your IAT if you need to, so you can thread it right in.
a) IF YOU DO NOT HAVE AN AEM V2 INTAKE: you can relocate the IAT per Innacurate's thread here: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...age=3&t=803036
b) IAT location on a 2004-2006 TL is on the neck of the IM right where it mates with the Throttle body
c) IAT location on a 2007-2008 TL is on the main body of the IM
What to Expect After the Install
1) bouncy idle initially, ECU will figure it out for the most part after a few days, although again it sounds like if you use the MAP sensor from the 3.7 TB it will work itself out a bit faster and better
2) potential CEL for the relocation of your IAT sensor. This is the computer going crazy and is temporary - just have an OBD2 scanner reset the code and you should be good. I only got it once after driving 2 miles after the install. Haven't seen it since 5k miles later
3) minor bucking between 2500-3000 RPM's if you are just cruising and have your foot on the gas slightly - maybe 5% throttle. I also have noticed it in cruise control as well. A tune if you have Flashpro will fix this for sure.
Performance Gains
Weight reduced by a few pounds (3.7 manifold is magnesium and the 04-08 IM is aluminum)
Air/Fuel ratios evened out quite well with this mod - I had been previously running very rich with all my exhaust mods, around 11.4. Once the 3.7 was on and air flow was increased, it leaned out to more expected levels of 12.3 or so. Pretty good for stock ECU.
Without a port and polish, just the 3.7 IM/TB, I saw about 7 whp / 5 wtq gain, and I was already fully bolted on with exhaust, HFPC's, jpipe, and aem v2 intake. This is also without a tune. Here is my dyno chart of before/after:
It is assumed that a 3.2 TL would gain more from this mod as the 3.5 Type-S intake manifold flows more already, so the jump to the 3.7 isn't as big as it would be from the 3.2 platform.
With port and polish expect minimal gains over what I got - the 3.7 flows very well already. There are gains to be had with ported runners, though. to the tune of 5-10 whp. Also if you already have a PnP'ed intake manifold on your current 3.2 or 3.5 manifold, this swap to the 3.7 won't gain you much if anything.
Conclusion
This is a very important mod if you are planning to do an NA build on your car, or a supercharged application. If you are turbocharged, well....GTFO libert69 you already have 500 whp
It's an important mod to actually take advantage of any aftermarket CAI that you buy, and again is very important if you plan to have any work done on the heads, cams, etc.
Will benefit from a tune greatly but still offers good mid-range and top-end gains.
Last edited by i_love_cars; 10-04-2012 at 10:53 AM.
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10-04-2012, 11:13 AM
#2
Excellent, I plan on doing the same thing! It will be interesting to see the range on what your 6mt s will make compared to my 5at base. I have already ordered my shawd mani and zdx TB, pnp runners already installed, and will post dyno gains and 1/4 improvement. I love data! So far the mod that gave me the most gains on the 1/4 was the CAI and a lot of people dismiss that mod as not providing any power.
Contact 06NH6MTTL for runners. I sold him my spare which he pnp so he has an extra set he might be willing to part with...
Contact 06NH6MTTL for runners. I sold him my spare which he pnp so he has an extra set he might be willing to part with...
10-04-2012, 11:30 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
yes, that is what we need. The more hard numbers we have on this, the better.
In my opinion, given the current state of the whole JnR ECU debacle, once people do all the other usual bolt-ons, this becomes the next most obvious option for making power.
What we need is to know how to best facilitate it because you can take several different components (zdx tb, tl sh-awd tb, sh-awd manifold, p2r runners, stock runners, stock manifold pnp, bored stock tb, etc. etc.) and make all kinds of combinations.
Then you have the other supporting questions to answer such as how the air velocity changes and will that impact the idle or blow codes? I haven't seen much material yet on whether or not the stock intake box will provided enough velocity and volume of air to make gains on a 4G manifold and a bigger TB.
I'll obviously keep tracking your Dyno thread that you started.
In my opinion, given the current state of the whole JnR ECU debacle, once people do all the other usual bolt-ons, this becomes the next most obvious option for making power.
What we need is to know how to best facilitate it because you can take several different components (zdx tb, tl sh-awd tb, sh-awd manifold, p2r runners, stock runners, stock manifold pnp, bored stock tb, etc. etc.) and make all kinds of combinations.
Then you have the other supporting questions to answer such as how the air velocity changes and will that impact the idle or blow codes? I haven't seen much material yet on whether or not the stock intake box will provided enough velocity and volume of air to make gains on a 4G manifold and a bigger TB.
I'll obviously keep tracking your Dyno thread that you started.
10-04-2012, 02:40 PM
#4
All motor
In for results. Glad you are taking this to a whole new level. I'd love to see the gains on the 3.5 compared to the 3.0.
I believe I still have my stock runners as well if you're interested. I haven't sold them so I should have them.
I believe I still have my stock runners as well if you're interested. I haven't sold them so I should have them.
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hondazex (10-04-2012)
10-04-2012, 07:05 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
parts ordered. Just shy of 500 bucks for the manifold, TB, and several gaskets and spare hardware. Should be here early next week, so hopefully I can get in to dyno in the next couple weeks.
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10-04-2012, 07:56 PM
#8
Sub'd
10-04-2012, 08:54 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
yeah it's the 3.7 manifold - 220 bucks on acuraoemparts.com. I don't need to buy the cover because I have type-s. If you had a 3.2 you'd need to buy the cover but the type-s can be re-used, which is neat.
10-04-2012, 11:51 PM
#13
10-05-2012, 12:02 AM
#14
All motor
Here is the parts list for the Base TL or Accord. Note my comment about the cover for the 5AT. That applies to the Type S as well (no cover needed). You know the drill.
http://www.xv6xperformance.net/forums/2007686-post529.html
10-05-2012, 01:16 AM
#15
IIRC doesn't this rob torque from low end and put it on the top end for more hp?
10-05-2012, 01:31 AM
#16
All motor
^ No. See my dyno in the other 3.7 IM threads and my J30a5 dyno thread. I gained 15whp and 5wtq peak. I gained both HP/TQ everywhere. I should really make that dyno my avatar LOL.
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justnspace (10-05-2012)
10-05-2012, 01:40 AM
#17
you'll still get asked about it.
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10-05-2012, 08:32 AM
#22
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
That doesn't necessarily mean a 3.5 TL will do the same, but that's what I want to find out.
This is an experiment to see if we can get a combination of newer (bigger) Acura intake components and machining that will make good gains across the board.
10-05-2012, 09:00 AM
#24
All motor
From 2500-4000 RPM, I gained ~12-15whp/tq by leaving the butterflies intact. Everywhere else before VTEC I gained ~3-4whp. I'd say that's solid evidence the butterfly delete loses torque. If I would've taken them out, I'm sure I would've experienced a very similar dip from 2500-4000. The 3.7 manifold/TB did not lose any power at any point in my dyno. This was also done on the same dyno with the same correction factor.
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10-05-2012, 09:11 AM
#25
^ thank you your intelligence 
no i'm not being sarcastic. thanks for clearing it up. i should now stfu and keep reading
no i'm not being sarcastic. thanks for clearing it up. i should now stfu and keep reading
10-05-2012, 02:01 PM
#26
The Track Terror
I'm I smokin' crack here or somethin'?? Who is saying the 3.2 manifold cover cannot be reused and why??? Please set me straight if this info is incorrect....
2012 TL SH-AWD:
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no
2008 TL Type-S:
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no
2007 TL Base:
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no
ALL the gaskets are the same part number...ALL use the same actuator bypass valve...ALL use the same EGR pipe...
SO, as far as I know, the 3.2 manifold cover CAN be reused, not just the Type-S....
2012 TL SH-AWD:
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no
2008 TL Type-S:
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no
2007 TL Base:
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no
ALL the gaskets are the same part number...ALL use the same actuator bypass valve...ALL use the same EGR pipe...
SO, as far as I know, the 3.2 manifold cover CAN be reused, not just the Type-S....
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MyadidaS33 (02-05-2024)
10-05-2012, 03:57 PM
#28
All motor
I was under the impression it couldn't because the butterflies are not in the top plate on the Accord or Base TL. If the butterfly valves are in the top plate, then you are good to go and don't need to buy it. However, if the cost of the top plate ($128 see above) is holding you back from this mod, then you're not ready for it.
10-05-2012, 04:28 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
I'm I smokin' crack here or somethin'?? Who is saying the 3.2 manifold cover cannot be reused and why??? Please set me straight if this info is incorrect....
2012 TL SH-AWD:
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no
2008 TL Type-S:
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no
2007 TL Base:
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no
ALL the gaskets are the same part number...ALL use the same actuator bypass valve...ALL use the same EGR pipe...
SO, as far as I know, the 3.2 manifold cover CAN be reused, not just the Type-S....
2012 TL SH-AWD:
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no
2008 TL Type-S:
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no
2007 TL Base:
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no
ALL the gaskets are the same part number...ALL use the same actuator bypass valve...ALL use the same EGR pipe...
SO, as far as I know, the 3.2 manifold cover CAN be reused, not just the Type-S....
04-06 will not, however, as the gaskets don't even match up.
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MyadidaS33 (02-05-2024)
10-05-2012, 04:39 PM
#30
The Track Terror
And thanks for the clarification i_love_cars!
10-05-2012, 06:30 PM
#31
In for results. Last I checked King's site, they offered nothing for the J-series. This is good news, hopefully the start of something big from one of the country's biggest and best Honda performance shops.
10-05-2012, 06:53 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
As it sits the only thing for j-series they offer is TB boring and port-matching the TB/IM
They also advertise tuning for the J-series for $450, but I am 100% sure that only applies to the AEM FIC, which they list as one of their specialties.
Last edited by i_love_cars; 10-05-2012 at 07:00 PM.
10-05-2012, 09:03 PM
#33
All motor
Hey fenda I hope you didn't take offense to my comment. I wasn't directing it towards you. I apologize if it seemed that way.
10-06-2012, 12:11 AM
#34
The Track Terror
i didn't mean for my response to sound defensive, cuz you're right, it def isn't a lot to pay for the gains it provides! Your input and research and experience has def been a big help for this community!
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Sonnick (10-06-2012)
10-06-2012, 04:56 AM
#37
All motor
^ Yea roost, you need that. I may put the ZDX throttle body on that list instead of the TL because of the price difference. I only paid $387 shipped for the TL throttle body, but that's still over $150 more than the ZDX.
10-06-2012, 09:56 AM
#39
The Track Terror
Do we need these bolts and nuts as well for the throttle body??
95701-08060-08 bolts x2
94050-08080 nuts x2
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...&qty6=1&qty7=1
95701-08060-08 bolts x2
94050-08080 nuts x2
http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...&qty6=1&qty7=1
10-06-2012, 10:18 AM
#40
The Track Terror
I'm thinkin' I could reuse the IM gasket? Does it really need to be replaced? I got one when I bought the MDX spacer...and just another clarification, would it be beneficial to keep the MDX spacer?
How does this list look??
16400-RYE-A11 THROTTLE BODY, ELECTRONIC CONTROL (GMD8B) $192.54 $192.54
16176-RYE-A10 GASKET, THROTTLE BODY $0.47 $0.47
94050-08080 NUT, FLANGE (8MM) $0.19 $0.38
95701-08060-08 BOLT, FLANGE (8X60) $0.88 $1.76
17160-RK2-A00 MANIFOLD, IN. $224.75 $224.75
92900-08050-3B BOLT, STUD (8X50) $0.81 $1.62
Subtotal: $421.52
*Shipping Charge $29.51
Handling Charge: $3.95
**Sales Tax: $0.00
Total Order : $454.98
How does this list look??
16400-RYE-A11 THROTTLE BODY, ELECTRONIC CONTROL (GMD8B) $192.54 $192.54
16176-RYE-A10 GASKET, THROTTLE BODY $0.47 $0.47
94050-08080 NUT, FLANGE (8MM) $0.19 $0.38
95701-08060-08 BOLT, FLANGE (8X60) $0.88 $1.76
17160-RK2-A00 MANIFOLD, IN. $224.75 $224.75
92900-08050-3B BOLT, STUD (8X50) $0.81 $1.62
Subtotal: $421.52
*Shipping Charge $29.51
Handling Charge: $3.95
**Sales Tax: $0.00
Total Order : $454.98
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