Rick_TL-S

The 6.0 is AWD, hence the VT in its name.

LostSol

Ah, my mistake.

I hate cars

Just another example of someone who can't drive and should not have been messing around. That was not a snap spin or anything out of the ordinary. He didn't even try to countersteer, he just let it spin. That was easily controllable.

As my engine builder and long time racer would say "Driver ran out of talent".

Majofo

Majofo

I don't feel so bad not recognizing the reference..

Inaccurate

Regarding the Lamborghini spinout -

Werd !!! The only think going thru my mind was "what the hell are you thinking". Goose the throttle midway thru a turn.

If you are going to do that, fine. Pwerslides are cool . But damn, find someplace private to learn how your car reacts first and practice.

Aman

I'm sure it's a lot harder being in the Lambo and reacting correctly than criticizing the driver after watching the video from afar.

Inaccurate

^ If it is that hard to control, then don't be goosing the throttle midway thru a turn in middle of other traffic with everyone watching.

If I am doing any "exhibition" stuff (showing off), I am only going to do it if I am damn sure of myself. Sure, mistakes happen. I make mistakes too. But, that guy was no where near being successful in his powerslide.

Like IHC said, he didn’t even try to control it. He had no business goosing the throttle.

The only thing that I can say in defense of this guy is that maybe he just bought the car and was still learning it. But even then, doing your learning in private first when no one is watching. That is what I do. When I show-off, it is something that I have practiced already.

I hate cars

It's really not. I've never driven a Diablo but I have driven a Murcialago (sp) and whatever the cheaper V10 is called. In my experience those cars require you to be a little quicker when the rear steps out of line but not hard to control at all. No matter the brand, the driver did not attempt to countersteer at all. Any car regardless of brand would have done the same.

I agree with Inaccurate, don't floor it mid corner if you don't know what to do with it once it slides. If I was going to do that in front of other club members and a video camera you can bet I would've practiced it in private already.

The only car that has given me trouble and truly scared me was an old 911 Porsche. Not fun. I flat out will not mess around in one of those.

Rick_TL-S

Yep, the Murc. & the Gallardo are much easier to handle, the V10 actually being a pretty gentle sports car if you wanted to use it a few times during the week. But like most Lamborghinis, as previously said, they like to bite you in the ass if you don't know how to handle them properly. Lot of owners don't seem to realize that despite being AWD, they are heavily RWD-biased & the AWD will not "save you" like a STi's might.

As for the Diablo, not hard to drive or use, just have to get used to its clutch & treat it well. Otherwise, you end up like the guy in the video with smoke just going everywhere.

Majofo

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

A streetable GTR that runs 9.60's @ upper 140's is pretty close to being the perfect car. That's what my buddy's ZX14-R used to run, but I'd bet the GTR is a hair quicker to 60. Only thing that sucks is not being able to loft the front end of the GTR.

NAiL05

Get a vette. Your car will not come close unless you run some sort of forced induction. Nitrous is an easy power adder that should put you up to par with the 4.6 motors. As for the new 5.0 thats a completely new beast. Drove one the other day and holy shit that thing is pretty damn quick. Ford is def stepping there game up.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

A fully bolted 6MT TL doesn't need F/I to hang with stock pre '10 Mustang GT's on the highway.

Aman

^ fully bolted TL is making the same power numbers as a 4.6 GT.

But it will still get eaten from a dig. RWD vs. FWD doesn't make for even launch times

Dave_B

I fully agree with IHC, tires are key whether it's a RWD car, FWD car, or AWD car. The Corvette video in question simply shows a driver showboating by doing a high rev downshift clutch drop to spin his tires to show just how much crazy power he has. "Whoa look guys, my Vette is so powerful it spins it's tires at speed. It's mad fast! I can't control it!". The tires spin, he upshifts, the tires keep spinning, and the tail end gets light and slides because of the excessive spin. I also believe the temps during the video were in the 50s which is not ideal for summer rated rubber. It just takes respect of the throttle when driving a higher powered RWD car. When you drive these cars, you have to remember that sometimes you can't put all the power down in certain situations and handling manuvers. Even in my low powered G35 with very sticky rubber, I can out-drive the tires in some turns.

As for AWD cars, I can see the benefit when it comes to flogging the car and launching, but like others have said maintenance is significant. Additionally, a AWD car launched like a 2WD cars will be a dog. AWD cars need very brutal launches in order to get them to turn crazy 60 foots. Clutches, half-shafts, transfer cases, u-joints, diffs, and the tranny itself are compromised everytime to launch on these cars. If you're building an auto-x car and want it to be your DD, then you really can't go wrong with AWD and a good set of race tires. I'm actually considering the upcoming revamped WRX 4-door maybe in 3 years. I'm also considering on keeping my G forever and picking up a Lotus Elise. IMO, that might be the perfect fun car and it's wicked for the auto-x. Add a SC and you'll be going deep 12s. I have a friend with an 07 Elise. He cut 1.7 60 foots with the OEM tires and ran 13.2@102mph. With the addition of a SC and about 70lbs of weight reduction, he's done 12.2s. This fall he should break into the 11s. You can pick up used Elise's for around $25K right now.

Majofo

I love elise's.. now if only I could fit in one.

turbocivic94

From what I heard that GTR transmission is weak.

Rick_TL-S

Maybe after constantly doing nothing but hard launches.

I've talked to Kenny Tran about his before & he loves it. Drives it to work everyday.

NAiL05

Nah GTR's love stripping third gear when power is pushed through them. It eats teeth for breakfast. And to my previous comment I thought the OP was AT I wasnt talking about a MT car.

Majofo

The implementation of "launch control" upped the stall speed to 4500 rpm when engaged which was attributed to early failures where owners engaged it often to get hard launches.. The engineers then stated launch control was to get out of mud and snow not to launch the car down the track. The computer even logs if / when launch control is engaged.. it was to void warranty, which they did, but was later reinstated. $16-20k for a new transmission is ridiculous.

NAiL05

The first two years of the GTR it was like that now they dont even put the launch control in as I recall you just stall it now. The GTR comment I made earlier was pointed at the older manual GTR's not the new one.

I hate cars

That makes it sound like an auto. Does it have a torque convertor or is it a true DSG? I thought it was an automated manual.

It's hilarious the engineers would go back and say launch control is to get it out of mud. I guess they'll do anything to avoid warranty claims.

Anyone know exactly what launch control consits of? I assume it's a two step rev limiter to build boost with the clutch disengaged???

NAiL05

I forgot how it operated but I remember reading something about it. I could be wrong since it has been a while since I have read about it.

Launch control in the GTR was pretty much like dumping a clutch in a manual car which is what they made it sound like. I didnt hear anything about building boost but it could have. Anyone have a GTR that can chime in lol...or I could always go to our pre owned and borrow one just to see if it does do it lol.

Majofo

Aman

I think that the engineers just lowered the launch control rpm, and maybe beefed up the transmission a bit.

Inaccurate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHbmn-4Mb6w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0NoPPdwNSo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ-Z40iFN80

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1bHGaV-Lvw



I like the EVO launch control much more. Have I mentioned that I am falling in love with the EVO





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa56p...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXYvN...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGg1m...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imUjT...eature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sq0rWOzb7Y

Aman

WOW those things are quick!

I hate cars

That's some real launching. From what I can tell the GTR uses the throttle to limit rpms so there's likely no boost when the clutch is released. I don't know how they're hurting transmissions when it looks like they're launching at 0 boost.

The EVOs are doing the classic 2-step limiter. They probably have a good 10psi of boost before the clutch is ever released and the difference really shows. A couple of those EVOs would destroy the GTR to 60mph.

My guess is the quicker ones were deep in 1.7 60' territory.

Aman

GT-R putting out no boost at 4500 rpm? Even if it's limited to just that, 4500 is well in the powerband and should be making some decent torque there, no?

I hate cars

I'm sure it will make some ok power but it won't make boost by sitting at 4,500rpm. You either need load like powerbraking an automatic or you need to sit it on a two-step revlimiter to build boost at the start. The EVOs are doing exactly that. The GTR even sounds like it's doing a relatively easy launch and then you hear the boost come in a second or so later. It's launching in the powerband but it's probably not making much power without boost. Looks like there's a lot of room for improvement if the trans would take it.

Dave_B

EVOs are killer performance machines and I've seen them do seemingly impossible things at the auto-x, but damn are those some high maintenance machines.

1) In order to generate the immense amount grip they do, they require near R-compound rubber. On the street, you'll be lucky to get 12K miles out of a set of tires. Plan on spending $700-1000 a year on tires if you want to maintain the car's known handling traits.

2) Clutches. The car's quick 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are the result of high rpm launches. You can't expect the drivetrain to handle this sort of abuse all the time. For most EVO owners, 15K to 30K is about what you'll get out a clutch. There are heavier duty ones that can handle more abuse, but the torque is then sent to other parts of the drivetrain, exposing more expensive weak links. What's worse, a clutch that needs to be replaced often or replacing a destoryed transfers case or tranny. Hmmmmm....

3) Fuel mileage. Yeah, not so hot. Most EVOs are 5MTs and strung high. Expect about 14 in the city and around 21 on the highway with the revs buzzing along at 3800rpms.

4) Fluid changes. While not terribly expensive, the EVO needs constant oil (3K miles), tranny fluid (15K miles), and differential fluid changes (15K miles).


I really love these cars and I think they can be pretty reliable as long as you don't exceed factory power about 50whp/wtq and don't do numerous high rpm launches. It's the cost to maintain the car that has turned me away.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

I don't understand the point of Evo's/STI's unless you're actually into Auto-X.

Their only redeeming qualities are their handling and hard launch capabilities. They're pretty ugly, usually sound annoying as hell, have low curb appeal, and an overall cheap feel for the money spent. I suppose the Subie has good reliability.

Inaccurate

Ok, stop teasing me...... I want an EVO sooo bad already

Super handling, hard launch capabilities. pretty ugly, sound annoying as hell, have low curb appeal, and an overall cheap feel ..... All of the traits that I want in a car. Seriously. Ever seen my TL after I changed it to meet my needs?

Majofo

so.. Inacc... are you going to piece together your TL and sell it for an EVO?

I hate cars

I would love to see the prospective buyer's face when they look at his 5 year old daily driver TL with a brand new flawless original interior.

Inaccurate

Once you burn a bridge, there is no going back.

Not selling the TL. My TL (or what was once a TL) is forever mine (burnt bridge).

But, that doesn't mean that I can't have an EVO too :devilgrin

I am working on the wife already. Sounds promising

Majofo

doesn't really make sense to have both..

Inaccurate

Well, if you really want it... I suppose that I would be willing to sell my TL to you.

I agree. The wife will probably give me a hard time about insurance on two cars.

Worst case is I will drive the TL for another two years. Let the blue book value drop more. Let the odometer get higher. See about a private sell "As Is". My biggest problem (burnt bridge) is no airbags. I even sold all of my airbags.

Best case is I can keep both (TL and EVO). There are advantages to being an old fart. Hopefully the insurance on both won't be too bad. I really want to keep both so that I can have the TL to drive while I have the EVO down for modding (major engine mods and parts breakage).

Majofo

If you did sell the TL, whoever were to buy it would be getting a good deal. If the boss says it's okay then what are you waiting for?