Custom Bisimoto Cams
08-22-2013, 07:58 AM
#561
Race Director
iTrader: (1)
I was going to say last night that Andy going to the a2 heads and being able to run his pipes like he did probably opened up a lot potential power.
And yes, it's very easy to get a 135 to 425HP. Scarily easy.
Now I want to sell my car.
And yes, it's very easy to get a 135 to 425HP. Scarily easy.
Now I want to sell my car.
Last edited by maharajamd; 08-22-2013 at 08:06 AM.
08-22-2013, 08:06 AM
#563
Racer
iTrader: (1)
I actually almost bought a 135 that had tuning and what not already set up, it's a beautiful car, my buddy also has a supercharged m3, I've always loved BMWs but I absolutely love my TL, I get compliments everyday I drive it which is everyday. I love being different and I get the satisfaction out of my car I expect. Saturday I'll be hanging out and tuning with Gerzand and we will see what kind of work we can do then!
08-22-2013, 10:19 AM
#564
Burning Brakes
iTrader: (1)
I actually almost bought a 135 that had tuning and what not already set up, it's a beautiful car, my buddy also has a supercharged m3, I've always loved BMWs but I absolutely love my TL, I get compliments everyday I drive it which is everyday. I love being different and I get the satisfaction out of my car I expect. Saturday I'll be hanging out and tuning with Gerzand and we will see what kind of work we can do then!
on the other hand, i can do more with the BMW long-term for performance, and if I sell my TL I'll be able to scoop up more rental property in 2014, so I still may lean towards getting rid of the TL.
JnR tune let us know how it goes =P andy is definitely knowledgeable there.
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IntactACK (08-22-2013)
08-22-2013, 06:28 PM
#565
Burning Brakes
iTrader: (1)
Picked up the car, just got home.
Definitely going to keep the car and run it alongside my 135. With the resonator welded in, it sounds awesome. I'm getting much more of the motor sound and very little rasp. It accentuates the heads/cams a lot more.
Power band is great, smooth, very quick.
Redline has been set at 7100 and sounds great.
I have a packet of documents and will be working on a build thread for the weekend.
definitely not a cheap endeavor but the car is done right.
Definitely going to keep the car and run it alongside my 135. With the resonator welded in, it sounds awesome. I'm getting much more of the motor sound and very little rasp. It accentuates the heads/cams a lot more.
Power band is great, smooth, very quick.
Redline has been set at 7100 and sounds great.
I have a packet of documents and will be working on a build thread for the weekend.
definitely not a cheap endeavor but the car is done right.
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08-23-2013, 07:54 AM
#566
Racer
iTrader: (1)
Awesome buddy glad it was all worth it! Would of hate to see you do all that work and then sell the car or not be happy with it! Our cars are very different and not to common even though it seems it on this website haha. I'm used to very fast and modded cars around me as I grew up around friends who have cars like fully custom rx7s with ls3 motor swaps and my car still makes me very happy. I can daily drive mine its a perfect mix of luxury and sport to me. I came from a prelude that I bought when I was 15, (had a bunch of random cars in between these as winter rats and all tha jazz, jeeps ford taurus trucks etc) to my audi a4 which I put a gt28rs turbo in and upgraded everything. I enjoy this car more than my a4, but the a4s quattro was amazing, all around it was an amazing car also. I wanted an m3 bad and almost bought 3 different ones before I stumbled across the TL. I have to say my buddy has an e46 (2004) m3 that is mint and a vortech supercharger and he paid like 27 grand. I paid 12 and have less miles, I honestly like my car more more considering I paid less than half. The only downfall to me with the TL is the drivetrain. I wish it was RWD, it gives me hemroids thinking about it hahaha. Pisses me off because I think it would be one epic peice of metal sitting on rubber but oh well. Back to work guys have a great day!
08-23-2013, 08:06 AM
#567
Race Director
iTrader: (1)
Fortunately you lead the way. It shouldn't be quite as expensive for others to follow your written scripture.
08-23-2013, 08:11 AM
#568
Burning Brakes
iTrader: (1)
Awesome buddy glad it was all worth it! Would of hate to see you do all that work and then sell the car or not be happy with it! Our cars are very different and not to common even though it seems it on this website haha. I'm used to very fast and modded cars around me as I grew up around friends who have cars like fully custom rx7s with ls3 motor swaps and my car still makes me very happy. I can daily drive mine its a perfect mix of luxury and sport to me. I came from a prelude that I bought when I was 15, (had a bunch of random cars in between these as winter rats and all tha jazz, jeeps ford taurus trucks etc) to my audi a4 which I put a gt28rs turbo in and upgraded everything. I enjoy this car more than my a4, but the a4s quattro was amazing, all around it was an amazing car also. I wanted an m3 bad and almost bought 3 different ones before I stumbled across the TL. I have to say my buddy has an e46 (2004) m3 that is mint and a vortech supercharger and he paid like 27 grand. I paid 12 and have less miles, I honestly like my car more more considering I paid less than half. The only downfall to me with the TL is the drivetrain. I wish it was RWD, it gives me hemroids thinking about it hahaha. Pisses me off because I think it would be one epic peice of metal sitting on rubber but oh well. Back to work guys have a great day!
yeah no one should need to spend anywhere NEAR what I did, lol. heads, cams, and a tune should realistically be in the vicinity of like 7k at a good shop. King really ate a lot of labor on this project - they knocked off several thousands of dollars for me in the end.
08-23-2013, 04:08 PM
#569
Safety Car
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Just and FYI since this is the camshaft section. Here is what I measured today.
Got my camshaft in today. Thanks Robert!!
09 MDX with 90k on it.
Measure of bearing. This is the what govern how big the cam lobes can be since they have to slide through the hole.
42.3xx mm
Exhaust lobe
35.6xx mm
intake primary
35.1xx mm
vtec lobe
36.4xx mm
secondard
35.0xx mm
FYI this is what it should be from honda, but remember my micrometer is not that accurate so + .1-.2
one of the member on v6p. was willing to offer me low cost to free specs like this *NOT 09 CAMSAHFT!!, Just example*
Got my camshaft in today. Thanks Robert!!
09 MDX with 90k on it.
Measure of bearing. This is the what govern how big the cam lobes can be since they have to slide through the hole.
42.3xx mm
Exhaust lobe
35.6xx mm
intake primary
35.1xx mm
vtec lobe
36.4xx mm
secondard
35.0xx mm
FYI this is what it should be from honda, but remember my micrometer is not that accurate so + .1-.2
one of the member on v6p. was willing to offer me low cost to free specs like this *NOT 09 CAMSAHFT!!, Just example*
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08-23-2013, 11:56 PM
#570
Agreed x100
Most people (including myself most of my automotive career/hobby) have a tendency on building an all motor setup because they either 1.) Don't have very much money to make an all out forced induction build or 2.) Think that an all motor build can be done cheap while conserving the engines natural reliability and streetability factors.
I've MORE THAN REALIZED that in the end, wether you're looking for all out performance or reliability, choosing forced induction (specifically turbo) will accomplish much more per dollar than building an all motor setup only to be discouraged by the results it yielded in a dollar-to-horsepower basis. I've put damn near $8000 into a small block 327 small journal ALL MOTOR Chevrolet once because I knew that revving this thing to 8500 rom's was the ONLY way I'd ever achieve big numbers from a dependable build that would last me. But that didn't prove to be so true on. The dependability aspect. I was either bending oushrods, breaking rocker studs, break valve springs from the monster cams and this irritated me so badly I changed focus. Then I built a budget 383 with forged pistons and rods, sprayed that sucker with a 250hp shot for years and NEVER broke a single part. That made me change my mind forever about using forced induction. It was also much cheaper because I didn't spend but $3500 on the motor, and never had to fix and broken parts like I did on the 327.
Given the motor is built like a rock, you can throw anything you want at it (with proper tuning) and make tons of cheap horsepower till you become blue in the face!
Ending on that note, here's the update I promised those who were following the whole Web cams issue from a few pages back. I pretty much said I'd come and let everyone know that they would be fine and work without flaw. Well, here they are....I just wished I could say the same for the shitty Total Seal rings!
Most people (including myself most of my automotive career/hobby) have a tendency on building an all motor setup because they either 1.) Don't have very much money to make an all out forced induction build or 2.) Think that an all motor build can be done cheap while conserving the engines natural reliability and streetability factors.
I've MORE THAN REALIZED that in the end, wether you're looking for all out performance or reliability, choosing forced induction (specifically turbo) will accomplish much more per dollar than building an all motor setup only to be discouraged by the results it yielded in a dollar-to-horsepower basis. I've put damn near $8000 into a small block 327 small journal ALL MOTOR Chevrolet once because I knew that revving this thing to 8500 rom's was the ONLY way I'd ever achieve big numbers from a dependable build that would last me. But that didn't prove to be so true on. The dependability aspect. I was either bending oushrods, breaking rocker studs, break valve springs from the monster cams and this irritated me so badly I changed focus. Then I built a budget 383 with forged pistons and rods, sprayed that sucker with a 250hp shot for years and NEVER broke a single part. That made me change my mind forever about using forced induction. It was also much cheaper because I didn't spend but $3500 on the motor, and never had to fix and broken parts like I did on the 327.
Given the motor is built like a rock, you can throw anything you want at it (with proper tuning) and make tons of cheap horsepower till you become blue in the face!
Ending on that note, here's the update I promised those who were following the whole Web cams issue from a few pages back. I pretty much said I'd come and let everyone know that they would be fine and work without flaw. Well, here they are....I just wished I could say the same for the shitty Total Seal rings!
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IntactACK (09-24-2013)
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08-24-2013, 08:17 AM
#572
Burning Brakes
iTrader: (1)
yungone, a Stage 3 regrind from Web will require cam gears to be cut to properly align the cam position. You would not notice this without putting the car on a dyno because the car may run fine but you'll be losing a lot of power.
I had the Stage 3 on the dyno and lost 40 wtq down low compared to stock, and had a huge digger from 6400-6800 with a loss of about 15 whp - sure the car ran ok and didn't throw codes (misfires were due to a funky combination of Flashpro's live tuning tables, as I mentioned earlier), but if you actually put it on a dyno you'd see the problems.
Stage 1/2 are probably totally fine, and that's what most people purchase (through Bisi). Stage 3 is where it goes off the rails a bit - but again that's only because there needs to be minor adjustment to the cam gears.
I can show you the chart if you don't believe me - before and after having the custom cam gears cut. Once the cam gears were in with 1.5 degree adjustment on the front and 4 degrees on the rear, I regained ALL my lost power down low and also smoothed out the digger up top. That's all it took to get them back to stock position, which is probably why you don't see this on Stage 1 or 2, because those cams end up being small enough that you don't have that minor degree variance.
That being said, nobody here expects to gain 100 or 150 whp from an all motor build on a TL. I knew it would cost upwards of 10k from the start. I don't know why you're indirectly hinting that it was anything different.
My only complaint was that Webcams basically cost me an extra 4k in labor which is bullshit, the overall LENGTH of the project due largely to Webcams wore me down to the point of buying another car
, and it would have been nice to see gains more in the 40 whp / 20 wtq area.
Build thread still to come! I've got 45 minutes here so I'm gonna start trying to write something up.
I had the Stage 3 on the dyno and lost 40 wtq down low compared to stock, and had a huge digger from 6400-6800 with a loss of about 15 whp - sure the car ran ok and didn't throw codes (misfires were due to a funky combination of Flashpro's live tuning tables, as I mentioned earlier), but if you actually put it on a dyno you'd see the problems.
Stage 1/2 are probably totally fine, and that's what most people purchase (through Bisi). Stage 3 is where it goes off the rails a bit - but again that's only because there needs to be minor adjustment to the cam gears.
I can show you the chart if you don't believe me - before and after having the custom cam gears cut. Once the cam gears were in with 1.5 degree adjustment on the front and 4 degrees on the rear, I regained ALL my lost power down low and also smoothed out the digger up top. That's all it took to get them back to stock position, which is probably why you don't see this on Stage 1 or 2, because those cams end up being small enough that you don't have that minor degree variance.
That being said, nobody here expects to gain 100 or 150 whp from an all motor build on a TL. I knew it would cost upwards of 10k from the start. I don't know why you're indirectly hinting that it was anything different.
My only complaint was that Webcams basically cost me an extra 4k in labor which is bullshit, the overall LENGTH of the project due largely to Webcams wore me down to the point of buying another car
, and it would have been nice to see gains more in the 40 whp / 20 wtq area. Build thread still to come! I've got 45 minutes here so I'm gonna start trying to write something up.
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08-25-2013, 10:48 AM
#573
Interesting response. If you do actually think about it, you have big cams trying to be cut from a profile that doesn't always allow perfect geometry for the ideal lobe design. This could be due to moving a peak lift to another angle which would subsequently have repercussions elsewhere or even changing LSA which could limit overall lift somewhere else. We don't see behind the doors of companies like Bisi and Web but I'm sure there are many obstacles that they encounter and when you're talking about regrinding an existing cam to a new profile, much trial and tribulation could easily stem from such a task....especially on an engine like the j-series where few have ventured to begin with. There's so many more factors that become involved when incorporating heightened lift and duration that we may not see the big picture all at once.
I understand what you're saying and see your point. Truth of the matter is until a reputable company invests more r&d into this aspect, we will undoubtably see issues. But there are a select few people out there who have succeeded in making a monster can for this engine and these people are making massive top end power. Don't know about you guys but anyone who makes over 400hp on any "square" V6 engine has my recognition.
I understand what you're saying and see your point. Truth of the matter is until a reputable company invests more r&d into this aspect, we will undoubtably see issues. But there are a select few people out there who have succeeded in making a monster can for this engine and these people are making massive top end power. Don't know about you guys but anyone who makes over 400hp on any "square" V6 engine has my recognition.
09-18-2013, 11:15 AM
#574
Safety Car
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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light at the end of the tunnel:
I'm doing some custom cam gears (13 bucks a piece, w00t) to fix the position of the cams at +4 in the front and -8 in the rear - the cam sensors are going bonkers after 20-30 minutes of running the car and sending all misfire codes because at that point, the car actually is physically starting to misfire. It runs fine up till that point, but then it starts misfiring and the car needs to be shut off and codes reset. Cam gears should fix it.
Still working through some tuning issues between 6500-6800 RPM's. There are some oddities in the chart there which appears to be due to reverberation coming back into the intake manifold from the cams.
Once that is worked out, next step is upping the redline. At stock redline the powerband was still going up, so I'm excited to see where it will be at 7200-7300.
So far no knock issues - periodically have been boroscoping the cylinders (everything was inked red) and things are looking good.
I'm doing some custom cam gears (13 bucks a piece, w00t) to fix the position of the cams at +4 in the front and -8 in the rear - the cam sensors are going bonkers after 20-30 minutes of running the car and sending all misfire codes because at that point, the car actually is physically starting to misfire. It runs fine up till that point, but then it starts misfiring and the car needs to be shut off and codes reset. Cam gears should fix it.
Still working through some tuning issues between 6500-6800 RPM's. There are some oddities in the chart there which appears to be due to reverberation coming back into the intake manifold from the cams.
Once that is worked out, next step is upping the redline. At stock redline the powerband was still going up, so I'm excited to see where it will be at 7200-7300.
So far no knock issues - periodically have been boroscoping the cylinders (everything was inked red) and things are looking good.
09-19-2013, 03:32 PM
#575
Burning Brakes
iTrader: (1)
Interesting response. If you do actually think about it, you have big cams trying to be cut from a profile that doesn't always allow perfect geometry for the ideal lobe design. This could be due to moving a peak lift to another angle which would subsequently have repercussions elsewhere or even changing LSA which could limit overall lift somewhere else. We don't see behind the doors of companies like Bisi and Web but I'm sure there are many obstacles that they encounter and when you're talking about regrinding an existing cam to a new profile, much trial and tribulation could easily stem from such a task....especially on an engine like the j-series where few have ventured to begin with. There's so many more factors that become involved when incorporating heightened lift and duration that we may not see the big picture all at once.
I understand what you're saying and see your point. Truth of the matter is until a reputable company invests more r&d into this aspect, we will undoubtably see issues. But there are a select few people out there who have succeeded in making a monster can for this engine and these people are making massive top end power. Don't know about you guys but anyone who makes over 400hp on any "square" V6 engine has my recognition.
I understand what you're saying and see your point. Truth of the matter is until a reputable company invests more r&d into this aspect, we will undoubtably see issues. But there are a select few people out there who have succeeded in making a monster can for this engine and these people are making massive top end power. Don't know about you guys but anyone who makes over 400hp on any "square" V6 engine has my recognition.
I've known people as well who start up with relatively unknown platforms like the J-series and are the early adopters to doing real engine building, and you'll find guys who go through 4 or 5 different cams before they find the right profile. I love the TL but I just don't quite care enough to go that far.
Regardless, 200 bucks to cut a set of stock cam gears made it run perfectly. The misfires were due to a bug in Hondata's software with the live tuning tables. The digger in the dyno was resolved with the new cam gears which physically repositioned it back to stock.
there are no issue with how the engine runs right now. I will be replacing the clutch master cylinder this weekend, however, and also will be trying out a stock 3.7 throttle body to verify if my bored TB is the cause of my throttle jerkiness when letting off the gas at 1% throttle.
Still probably going to sell the car and pick up a 335xi for winter, though
09-20-2013, 12:15 AM
#576
Pro
iTrader: (6)
I'm working on a 3.5 build and have a few cam and head questions, how much can the head be milled, and what has to be done to correct valve timing, is there a source for adjustable cam gears? Is it true that someone actually has complete cams specs for the factory J cams. I have been searching for many weeks now and have not found any clear answers to these questions, and I know they are not all about cams. Selecting a cam and deciding on weather or not I can mill the head are the last things I need to know.
09-20-2013, 07:24 AM
#577
Burning Brakes
I_LOVE_CARS
Would you go as far as making your car light as possible by removing unneccessary stuff? lbs per lbs as per hp would probably show some of those gains back into your seat.
Would you go as far as making your car light as possible by removing unneccessary stuff? lbs per lbs as per hp would probably show some of those gains back into your seat.
09-20-2013, 06:47 PM
#579
Burning Brakes
iTrader: (1)
I'm working on a 3.5 build and have a few cam and head questions, how much can the head be milled, and what has to be done to correct valve timing, is there a source for adjustable cam gears? Is it true that someone actually has complete cams specs for the factory J cams. I have been searching for many weeks now and have not found any clear answers to these questions, and I know they are not all about cams. Selecting a cam and deciding on weather or not I can mill the head are the last things I need to know.
if you go with a big enough cam (as such was my experience with a "stage 3"), you will have valve timing issues that can only be corrected with a different cam gear.
That said, there are no adjustable cam gears per se, although I had a new set of stock cam gears cut in multiple spots to allow for different positioning IF it was needed.
At this point, I have everything I removed still and have not gone so far that I can't put the car back together - deciding currently if I am going to keep the car or not and if I keep it....i will probably go heavier on the diet and gut a bunch more. I have a list of all the diet items I still want to do that totals another 100 pounds or so. I'd be pretty happy at 3200.
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09-20-2013, 11:22 PM
#581
takin care of Business in
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I_love_cars....you naive little soul....I remember when I said, I will be happy at 3200...now am sitting at 295x....this diet thing is very very addictive buddy....
09-22-2013, 09:56 AM
#582
Team Owner
Agreed x100
Most people (including myself most of my automotive career/hobby) have a tendency on building an all motor setup because they either 1.) Don't have very much money to make an all out forced induction build or 2.) Think that an all motor build can be done cheap while conserving the engines natural reliability and streetability factors.
I've MORE THAN REALIZED that in the end, wether you're looking for all out performance or reliability, choosing forced induction (specifically turbo) will accomplish much more per dollar than building an all motor setup only to be discouraged by the results it yielded in a dollar-to-horsepower basis. I've put damn near $8000 into a small block 327 small journal ALL MOTOR Chevrolet once because I knew that revving this thing to 8500 rom's was the ONLY way I'd ever achieve big numbers from a dependable build that would last me. But that didn't prove to be so true on. The dependability aspect. I was either bending oushrods, breaking rocker studs, break valve springs from the monster cams and this irritated me so badly I changed focus. Then I built a budget 383 with forged pistons and rods, sprayed that sucker with a 250hp shot for years and NEVER broke a single part. That made me change my mind forever about using forced induction. It was also much cheaper because I didn't spend but $3500 on the motor, and never had to fix and broken parts like I did on the 327.
Given the motor is built like a rock, you can throw anything you want at it (with proper tuning) and make tons of cheap horsepower till you become blue in the face!
Ending on that note, here's the update I promised those who were following the whole Web cams issue from a few pages back. I pretty much said I'd come and let everyone know that they would be fine and work without flaw. Well, here they are....I just wished I could say the same for the shitty Total Seal rings!
Most people (including myself most of my automotive career/hobby) have a tendency on building an all motor setup because they either 1.) Don't have very much money to make an all out forced induction build or 2.) Think that an all motor build can be done cheap while conserving the engines natural reliability and streetability factors.
I've MORE THAN REALIZED that in the end, wether you're looking for all out performance or reliability, choosing forced induction (specifically turbo) will accomplish much more per dollar than building an all motor setup only to be discouraged by the results it yielded in a dollar-to-horsepower basis. I've put damn near $8000 into a small block 327 small journal ALL MOTOR Chevrolet once because I knew that revving this thing to 8500 rom's was the ONLY way I'd ever achieve big numbers from a dependable build that would last me. But that didn't prove to be so true on. The dependability aspect. I was either bending oushrods, breaking rocker studs, break valve springs from the monster cams and this irritated me so badly I changed focus. Then I built a budget 383 with forged pistons and rods, sprayed that sucker with a 250hp shot for years and NEVER broke a single part. That made me change my mind forever about using forced induction. It was also much cheaper because I didn't spend but $3500 on the motor, and never had to fix and broken parts like I did on the 327.
Given the motor is built like a rock, you can throw anything you want at it (with proper tuning) and make tons of cheap horsepower till you become blue in the face!
Ending on that note, here's the update I promised those who were following the whole Web cams issue from a few pages back. I pretty much said I'd come and let everyone know that they would be fine and work without flaw. Well, here they are....I just wished I could say the same for the shitty Total Seal rings!
The largest benefit to me is the power band. You make power everywhere on the tach, not just near redline. Anyone with a 335 or 135 can back that up.
Last, what is it you don't like about your total seal rings? For boosted engines they have to be set up different. It's been so long since I installed mine but the special ring gets moved either to the top or to the second ring, it's the opposite of how they're run in a NA setup. There used to be flutter problems at high rpms causing a loss of ring seal but I think that's mostly worked out now. I rarely take mine over 5k but my fathers car spins up to 8,500rpm with total seals and no issues. Do you remember which ring land got the "total seal" ring?
09-22-2013, 05:04 PM
#583
Burning Brakes
iTrader: (1)
Very well said. Boost will be more reliable especially in the higher hp cars. Instead of big cams and the issues that can go with that, turn the boost up half a lb for the same power. Instead of head work, turn the boost up a lb. You can end up with a combo that drives like stock because it is mostly stock and make double the hp. The V8 guys used to look at mine and my fathers turbo cars with this dumbfounded look because they idled smooth and sounded stock, not understanding boost at all.
The largest benefit to me is the power band. You make power everywhere on the tach, not just near redline. Anyone with a 335 or 135 can back that up.
Last, what is it you don't like about your total seal rings? For boosted engines they have to be set up different. It's been so long since I installed mine but the special ring gets moved either to the top or to the second ring, it's the opposite of how they're run in a NA setup. There used to be flutter problems at high rpms causing a loss of ring seal but I think that's mostly worked out now. I rarely take mine over 5k but my fathers car spins up to 8,500rpm with total seals and no issues. Do you remember which ring land got the "total seal" ring?
The largest benefit to me is the power band. You make power everywhere on the tach, not just near redline. Anyone with a 335 or 135 can back that up.
Last, what is it you don't like about your total seal rings? For boosted engines they have to be set up different. It's been so long since I installed mine but the special ring gets moved either to the top or to the second ring, it's the opposite of how they're run in a NA setup. There used to be flutter problems at high rpms causing a loss of ring seal but I think that's mostly worked out now. I rarely take mine over 5k but my fathers car spins up to 8,500rpm with total seals and no issues. Do you remember which ring land got the "total seal" ring?
I can safely say, especially now having driven the 135 over the past month and with turbo tech where it's at in the industry, there's just no comparison. Even the higher end muscle cars that are 600+ from the factory are only in that arena of power because they typically come supercharged. Boost is pretty amazing these days.
I'm convinced I had a stroke of insanity with this engine build on the TL. It still puts a smile on my face when I turn on the car, and when I sit at a stoplight listening to the idle, but as far as power goes it can't hold a candle to what i can do so much more cheaply with the 135.
chalk up another learning experience lol
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03 tls nc (09-24-2013)
09-22-2013, 06:22 PM
#584
Team Owner
PM will be sent shortly.
i like the way you think: Go big or go home, lol
'bout time you chimed in.
I can safely say, especially now having driven the 135 over the past month and with turbo tech where it's at in the industry, there's just no comparison. Even the higher end muscle cars that are 600+ from the factory are only in that arena of power because they typically come supercharged. Boost is pretty amazing these days.
I'm convinced I had a stroke of insanity with this engine build on the TL. It still puts a smile on my face when I turn on the car, and when I sit at a stoplight listening to the idle, but as far as power goes it can't hold a candle to what i can do so much more cheaply with the 135.
chalk up another learning experience lol
i like the way you think: Go big or go home, lol
'bout time you chimed in.
I can safely say, especially now having driven the 135 over the past month and with turbo tech where it's at in the industry, there's just no comparison. Even the higher end muscle cars that are 600+ from the factory are only in that arena of power because they typically come supercharged. Boost is pretty amazing these days.
I'm convinced I had a stroke of insanity with this engine build on the TL. It still puts a smile on my face when I turn on the car, and when I sit at a stoplight listening to the idle, but as far as power goes it can't hold a candle to what i can do so much more cheaply with the 135.
chalk up another learning experience lol
I don't know if you've been in a chipped 335 or 135 but the boost comes in even quicker. In my friend's programmed 335 just stabbing the gas from a stoplight you have to really try to notice any lag and it's not more than 1/2 second. It literally feels like you've got a 500 cube big block when you're doing point and squirt maneuvers on the road. The power is instant from any rpm. I don't know about the newer models but we were told when we asked the tuner about upgrading the turbos that they run out of breath just before you have to upgrade the bottom end. When we had his pushing 15psi the turbos would run out of breath and boost would start falling off around 4,500rpm so you ended up with incredible low end and midrange but the power leveled off on its way to redline. I wonder what the single turbo models can push before a turbo upgrade is necessary.
I'm jealous of your cars, they sound like a lot of fun and one of the 335s would make a great daily. I'm seriously considering one if I don't get a CTS-V.
09-22-2013, 08:13 PM
#585
Burning Brakes
iTrader: (1)
That's what it's all about, learning. I still love big cam cars and the feeling when they come on cam or vtec in this case lol. I'm sure the TL is a blast to drive plus it's unique. How many loping TLs are out there.
I don't know if you've been in a chipped 335 or 135 but the boost comes in even quicker. In my friend's programmed 335 just stabbing the gas from a stoplight you have to really try to notice any lag and it's not more than 1/2 second. It literally feels like you've got a 500 cube big block when you're doing point and squirt maneuvers on the road. The power is instant from any rpm. I don't know about the newer models but we were told when we asked the tuner about upgrading the turbos that they run out of breath just before you have to upgrade the bottom end. When we had his pushing 15psi the turbos would run out of breath and boost would start falling off around 4,500rpm so you ended up with incredible low end and midrange but the power leveled off on its way to redline. I wonder what the single turbo models can push before a turbo upgrade is necessary.
I'm jealous of your cars, they sound like a lot of fun and one of the 335s would make a great daily. I'm seriously considering one if I don't get a CTS-V.
I don't know if you've been in a chipped 335 or 135 but the boost comes in even quicker. In my friend's programmed 335 just stabbing the gas from a stoplight you have to really try to notice any lag and it's not more than 1/2 second. It literally feels like you've got a 500 cube big block when you're doing point and squirt maneuvers on the road. The power is instant from any rpm. I don't know about the newer models but we were told when we asked the tuner about upgrading the turbos that they run out of breath just before you have to upgrade the bottom end. When we had his pushing 15psi the turbos would run out of breath and boost would start falling off around 4,500rpm so you ended up with incredible low end and midrange but the power leveled off on its way to redline. I wonder what the single turbo models can push before a turbo upgrade is necessary.
I'm jealous of your cars, they sound like a lot of fun and one of the 335s would make a great daily. I'm seriously considering one if I don't get a CTS-V.
the 135 makes max torque at like 1400 rpm, which is insane. I am still under warranty so I haven't chipped it yet, but from everything I have seen the N54 is still better for tuners than the twin-scroll turbo in the N55. The N54 has a forged crank and holds power longer than the N55 above 5500 rpms
I like the way you're talking - a 335 in your hands is a no brainer because even if it breaks, I know you of all people won't be pigeon-holed into taking it to BMW for servicing
although....cts-v is pretty beast, undeniably
09-22-2013, 11:18 PM
#586
I'm jealous of your cars, they sound like a lot of fun and one of the 335s would make a great daily. I'm seriously considering one if I don't get a CTS-V.
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IntactACK (09-23-2013)
09-24-2013, 09:44 AM
#588
Race Director
iTrader: (1)
There is even less turbo lag with the N55 though. Although, there wasn't much with the N54s to begin with.
04-24-2014, 12:45 AM
#592
Originally Posted by IRTHE1
i think the 09 RL made 290hp
11-17-2019, 08:11 PM
#594
umm, same.... the stage 3 regrinds will always have a problem. did you not read the entire thread? lol
Originally Posted by I_love_cars
40 thou, or 1 millimeter is as far as you can take a set of J35 heads - anything more and you will have clearance issues.
if you go with a big enough cam (as such was my experience with a "stage 3"), you will have valve timing issues that can only be corrected with a different cam gear.
That said, there are no adjustable cam gears per se, although I had a new set of stock cam gears cut in multiple spots to allow for different positioning IF it was needed.
if you go with a big enough cam (as such was my experience with a "stage 3"), you will have valve timing issues that can only be corrected with a different cam gear.
That said, there are no adjustable cam gears per se, although I had a new set of stock cam gears cut in multiple spots to allow for different positioning IF it was needed.
11-17-2019, 08:13 PM
#595
yungone, a Stage 3 regrind from Web will require cam gears to be cut to properly align the cam position. You would not notice this without putting the car on a dyno because the car may run fine but you'll be losing a lot of power.
I had the Stage 3 on the dyno and lost 40 wtq down low compared to stock, and had a huge digger from 6400-6800 with a loss of about 15 whp - sure the car ran ok and didn't throw codes (misfires were due to a funky combination of Flashpro's live tuning tables, as I mentioned earlier), but if you actually put it on a dyno you'd see the problems.
Stage 1/2 are probably totally fine, and that's what most people purchase (through Bisi). Stage 3 is where it goes off the rails a bit - but again that's only because there needs to be minor adjustment to the cam gears.
I can show you the chart if you don't believe me - before and after having the custom cam gears cut. Once the cam gears were in with 1.5 degree adjustment on the front and 4 degrees on the rear, I regained ALL my lost power down low and also smoothed out the digger up top. That's all it took to get them back to stock position, which is probably why you don't see this on Stage 1 or 2, because those cams end up being small enough that you don't have that minor degree variance.
That being said, nobody here expects to gain 100 or 150 whp from an all motor build on a TL. I knew it would cost upwards of 10k from the start. I don't know why you're indirectly hinting that it was anything different.
My only complaint was that Webcams basically cost me an extra 4k in labor which is bullshit, the overall LENGTH of the project due largely to Webcams wore me down to the point of buying another car , and it would have been nice to see gains more in the 40 whp / 20 wtq area.
Build thread still to come! I've got 45 minutes here so I'm gonna start trying to write something up.
I had the Stage 3 on the dyno and lost 40 wtq down low compared to stock, and had a huge digger from 6400-6800 with a loss of about 15 whp - sure the car ran ok and didn't throw codes (misfires were due to a funky combination of Flashpro's live tuning tables, as I mentioned earlier), but if you actually put it on a dyno you'd see the problems.
Stage 1/2 are probably totally fine, and that's what most people purchase (through Bisi). Stage 3 is where it goes off the rails a bit - but again that's only because there needs to be minor adjustment to the cam gears.
I can show you the chart if you don't believe me - before and after having the custom cam gears cut. Once the cam gears were in with 1.5 degree adjustment on the front and 4 degrees on the rear, I regained ALL my lost power down low and also smoothed out the digger up top. That's all it took to get them back to stock position, which is probably why you don't see this on Stage 1 or 2, because those cams end up being small enough that you don't have that minor degree variance.
That being said, nobody here expects to gain 100 or 150 whp from an all motor build on a TL. I knew it would cost upwards of 10k from the start. I don't know why you're indirectly hinting that it was anything different.
My only complaint was that Webcams basically cost me an extra 4k in labor which is bullshit, the overall LENGTH of the project due largely to Webcams wore me down to the point of buying another car
, and it would have been nice to see gains more in the 40 whp / 20 wtq area.Build thread still to come! I've got 45 minutes here so I'm gonna start trying to write something up.
simple reading on the very last page.
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