shtewps

iTrader: (1)

29 hours later I now have a new, powered front stage. I wouldn't have been able to do it without having all of my newbish questions answered here so I'm making this thread to document what I did and where my answers came from.

Info:

Original Thread - From speaker rings to the back seat.. most of my questions were answered very well here.

Entrance to firewall, backseat removal links, grounding

Remote wire

Color codes for stock amp



Gear:

- Focal PS 165 component set
- Alpine PDX 4.100
- B-Quiet

Total cost (inc all hardware): $916 CAD


Installation:


























































Final Product:











What I would change about the install:

- The trim beside the upper back seat was a huge PITA to re-apply. Removal was fine. I would probably remove the upper back seat for easier access to the trim and trunk if I were to do it again.

- Total time spent on mounting the speakers in the doors was about ~7 hours. All because I didnt want to cut the metal. I can to re-shape the rings many times and trim the speaker shroud in the door panel to make the panels fit. If I were to do this again I would have probably found a way to just cut the metal in the door to make the speaker hole wider. Then again, I don't know how difficult that would have been. But at least I still have the option

Final Thoughts:

The new Focal PS 165's are pretty stunning and very detailed. The highs at very high volumes can hurt your ears if you're listening to types of music with a lot of constant high frequencies (ie rock). However the fact that I do not have a sub to compensate for the low end at this point leads me to play the system quite loud. It's still crystal clear though

The front-facing tweeter mounts were a life saver. I didn't plan to get them as I was going to go with the 165 VBs. They were discontinues the week that I wanted to order them and were replaced with the PS series. I dont think the VBs came with these mounts but having the tweeters pointed at your face IMO makes a world of difference. Plus they match my interior and look cocky as f*ck!

Kind of trivial but the system voice/bluetooth sounds really really good too. I'm very happy about that since I'd hear all kinds of rattles and buzzing when the volume was up on the system voice.

The b-quiet ultimate butyl (asphalt free) deadener worked out very nicely. Even though I only did my front doors I can notice the decrease in road noise. It has also suppressed any vibrations/resonance in my door panels so the point of non-existence.

The Alpine PDX 4.100 is a clean and powerful amp with plenty of good reviews. My birth-sheet has it rated at 120w per channel and you can really hear it. Unfortunately I was subject to the noise/hissing problem as a lot of people who purchased this amp. I can't use channel 2 as this hissing is unbearable. So I am using channel 1 and 3 at the moment. So since I am only powering two channels right now, it makes no difference but as I plan to extend this system it will become a problem. I'll be returning it this week... not sure what I am going to get.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Nice write-up!! So to my understanding, you didn't cut the door and that's why you have to use 2 3/4" MDF rings? I plan on cutting a little and using a 1" MDF recessed ring. Hopefully it clears. How much space did you have behind the speaker?

That's sad to hear about the PDX 4.100. I'm hoping mine doesn't sound like that!! Getting more and more scared as I get closer to install

eggyhustles

Sorry to hear about the noise issues.

btw, you gotta cover those holes in the door

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

Thanks! The best advice I can give you for the PDX is to buy from an authorized dealer. Local if possible too. That way you can just switch them out as needed with no down time My dealer told me that the noise was a problem in the beginning but they had corrected the issue with later production units. Mine was produced in 2008 which is pretty old.. so you can always check your birth-sheet if you want to get an idea of how old the revision is.

The speaker rings were 1.25" and I did not have to cut any metal at all. It took a lot of work to get the panel to fit with that size of a ring though as you can see I had to trim the speaker shroud in the door panel. There is lots of space behind the speaker hole for the magnet to fit in, don't worry about that. Lots of people use the 1" and cut metal, havent read one instance where it hasnt been enough.

Best of luck!

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

Why's that?

eggyhustles

You want to seal up the door as much as possible, so it sort of acts like a sealed enclosure. Midbass response should increase tremendously.

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

Bah! I asked why I needed to seal those holes but didnt get an answer.. I figured it would be for rattles and since I dont have any I didnt need to fill them. But if its for SQ.. well thats a different story!

So seal with more deadener? Strips on each side so theres nothing raw that is exposed..?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

You definitely want to seal up those doors. Right now you're allowing for more panel resonance and it's just vibrating the plastic panel more than it would be with either of the 2 options given below. Here's the 2 most popular options I see...

1. Buy Mass Loaded Vinyl (MLV) from Sound Deadener Showdown OR Overkill Pro from Second Skin Audio and lay it over the deadener. Make sure to leave holes for the mid and cut small X's for your wires to go through. It will act as a sound barrier.

2. Screw or attach sheet metal or something like it to the open holes and then cover that new stuff with deadener.

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

And you just throw it over the hole like a big sticker?

I dunno if I could be bothered TBH. I'd be pretty bent if I went through the effort and didnt notice a difference. I mean the hole is "sealed" since the panel is back on and I don't hear any vibrations or resonance.

Probably something to consider during stage 2 when I add processing. After 30 hours of labour in 3 days, I dont even want to think about removing another screw.

sddale

Read this...

http://raamaudio.com/index.php?optio...4&limitstart=2

Lot's of good info for deadening.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

By the way, interesting way to mount those tweets. Never thought about that. I might try mine off-axis/in the dash like stock or mounting them like that. I do want to go to Hobby Lobby and find some of those egg/dome shaped plastic half-rings to put behind the tweeter. Exactly the same thing that neibur used to fiberglass his mids but there's a write-up over on DIYMA that says it helps a ton when doing it to the tweeters.

Nick337

iTrader: (2)

Pretty interesting way of mounting the tweeters.

tlemmon

just kicking this out there, but from a wood workers perspective, don't use MDF on or in a car door (heat and moisture will kill it). get some Baltic birtch or apple-ply hardwood or just use real hardwood. easier to shape and will hold screws and fittings better

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

I think most people use the rubberized truck bed liner to spray over the rings. It supposedly is a nice barrier for moisture, etc

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

^ Yep.

I'll probably add the rubberized undercoating the next time I do work on the doors to fill the holes.

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

Here's a couple more shots of the tweets since everyone finds them interesting.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

You probably get some good height with that kind mounting but how is the width of the soundstage? Nothing worse than moving 6" and the sound completely changes haha. I'll have to check but I believe my RK6's came with a few mounting options and that kind of angled style was one of them.

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

I've sat in every position in the car plus stood outside at full volume. It's astounding.

Up front, there is no change in sound as per your location. Bang your head around 6 inches, a foot, doesnt matter. When you move to the back the dynamic changes as the highs are less audible but the bass is higher since I still have the stock sub hooked up.

Cant wait to add some low-end. Should have that covered in about a week.

Talked to my local dealer and we'll just keep swapping amps on-location until I find the one I like since this Alpine is having an issue.

eggyhustles

What have you decided on for subs?

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

^ I havent.

But I am open to suggestions. Nothing larger than a single 10" is all I have determined so far.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Nice dealer! Glad you'll get that worked out

^This! What's the budget...

eggyhustles

If i was in canada, my #1 choice would be the creative sound solutions sdx10 http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=SDX10

jda123

I dropped a single Sundown SA-8 D4 in my olds in a tiny ported box and it slams pretty good on 400-450 watts in a box about 14.5x12x10. The SA8 is a cute little guy and is only about $135 shipped.

There are many more options once you get into 10s.

Post up a budget and you will get tons of feedback.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

That's a nice little sub for the money! Never seen that

SA-8 would be badass for him but the shipping to Canada might kill em

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

Really appreciate the constructive feedback guys.. thanks a lot.

Apparently I need to do a bit of homework because I don't quite understand how to determine the best choice for myself from a specification perspective.

Since I have my 4 channel amp only powering the front stage, my plan is to add a sub so I can fill in the low-end gap for the time being and run it off the other two channels. I would consider this to be apart of my first stage upgrade process.

The second stage will include processing and a dedicated amp for the sub (the other two channels on my 4 chan will go to the rears in addition to replacement speakers). Since I don't plan to replace my gear, I will need a sub that will have the wattage capacity for a future upgrade. The amp I'm using now (which will most likely be replaced) will be able to supply 200w (more like 240 given the birth-sheet). I'd probably like to add another 100-200 watts when I throw it on it's own amp.

Since I mostly listen to rock/electronic I need something with "fast response". This is what I was told anyway. I am just not sure how to determine what makes a sub "fast", per say.

My budget for adding a sub and box right now that will be able to handle more wattage at a later time would be ~$200.

eggyhustles

Hmm..

$200 won't get you both a 600w sub and a box.

My 2 choices are

Dayton ho 10 http://www.solen.ca/pub/cms_nf_catal...eau2=&niveau3=


Or

CSS sdx10 http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=SDX10



Css will need a bigger box to play flat(around 1.5 cubes)

The dayton would need .7 tuned to 30hz

Those are both canadian sites, so it should save you on some coin.

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

^ Thanks eggy.

Just two questions.

1. Why did you choose those woofers particularly?

2. Can you just translate this to layman's. Not sure I fully understand. "play flat(around 1.5 cubes)" "The dayton would need .7 tuned to 30hz".

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

1. Both of these don't require a ton of power and will sound good. They're in Canada also which will save, most likely, a ton of money for shipping.

2. By "play flat" he means that the sub will not have a peaky response. You will get a nice, equal response throughout the spectrum (30hz-80hz) or whatever. I believe that's what he is talking about

eggyhustles

This

sddale

Where did you end up getting the signal for your RCA's? In the original thread it was suggested to take the pre-amp signal making your own RCA's WITHOUT a LOC. As I continued reading that thread you mentioned taking it after the amp. Sorry if I missed a post where you confirmed which way you went.

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

No worries. If I reference pre-amp, then it most likely meant before the aftermarket amp. I didnt use an LOC at all, I spliced right into RCAs from after the stock amp. Then RCA into the aftermarket amp.

I am dropping in a sub tomorrow and I just took the trunk liner out so I can wire an RCA onto the sub channel from the trunk.

Cant wait for some bass.