So after reading a multitude of threads here, it's quite obvious that the best way to approach some advice here is to spit out a budget.

My factory speakers are starting to blow and I need to get out of this setup stat! Given my budget and musical taste, would you kindly state what components you would purchase with an $800 budget?

I frequently listen to rock/metal/electronic, so I guess speakers that can handle fast hitting bass tones would be ideal.

I am looking to replace all of the speakers and I am confident in doing the installation myself.

I have gathered some random facts so far:

- Focal make good speakers
- JL CLeansweep CL441dsp is a good idea
- Sound deaden the front doors & rear deck

I am a bit flexible on the budget, but do not intend to travel far outside of it as I'm satisfied with overall clean sound that can keep up with my music.

If possible, an amp to give me some higher than stock volume would be nice. Let me know if this is feasible.

Cheers and thanks in advance for any advice.

 

Cleansweep wont do any good get a Rockford fosgate 3sixity.2 or a memphis 6ix

 

With an $800 budget you won't be able to do sub, sub amp, components, component amp, sound deaden, AND pick up a RF 3sixty.2. I would either not get the 3sixty.2 yet or wait on the sub/sub amp.

 

Thanks for the replies!

What's wrong with the Cleansweep?

Well I'm not particularly interested in a sub/sub amp at this point. Those are extension components that can be added to an already clean set up of nice interior speakers.

I would rather NOT get a sub and sub amp yet since it is not necessarily critical to a good sounding install.

So what do you suggest for components? (specifically speaker brand/model, amp, etc.)



Cheers!

 

I would put most of that money into the front components. I spent too many years upgrading and upgrading the upgrades. I finally put some great components in and I've never been happier. I used to listen to everything bass heavy but with a good sounding front stage you will barely miss a subwoofer.

Is piecing it together a little at a time an option. Like can you blow your whole budget on a front comp set and sound deadening and a few months later add an amp of are you looking to get it all over with now?

I would put the majority of your money into the front comps. An amp for the comps will make almost as big of a sound quality difference as the speakers themselves and sound deadening of the doors will make a huge difference too.

As for brands, of course I'm going to recommend the ones I have, the Dyns. I just saw a used set go for $750. I've used Infinity and Image Dynamics CTX-65. The Infinites were very bright but vocals sounded nice. The IDs had decent midbass and were tough as nails but there was a little detail missing. I just put the lower end Focal Access line in the GF's car yesterday and they sound very nice. I'm not a big fan of metal tweeters but these are nice and not harsh sounding. Detail is pretty good and midbass is good.

Not sure if a processor is really needed at this point.

 

Thank you very much for your perspective.

Absolutely doing this in stages is an option. It is almost preferred since in the long run I will be able to achieve an even better configuration by adding, and not replacing.

So if I understand this correctly, you suggest spending the budget on some high end speakers for the front, leaving the rear deck unchanged. The components would replace the stock tweeters or be added to a new location?

Would the new front speakers need to be powered? If not, will they work fine on the stock amp until I power them?

Thanks again! Great info.

 

Even though I first upgraded the system in the TL back in '06 I still consider myself a newb because I did my first "high end" install a month ago. I made a lot of mistakes and most were based around having the system done today rather than waiting and buying good stuff.

By far the thing that has made mine the most enjoyable is getting a great front stage. I find myself enjoying the music instead of picking out what is wrong with the system. Much of it is personal preference so what sounds good to me might not sound good to you. Most of my friends love my new setup but I have one friend that hates it. I wanted something that would accurately reproduce the music down to the smallest detail without coloring the music which is what the Dynaudios do. Some like the brightness of the Focals better. The friend that hates my setup has a Focal system. On mine you can hear every detail from the singer taking a breath, the pick hitting the guitar strings and it does this without being artificially bright.

I felt guilty for spending the amount of money I did on a front stage but I kept thinking on the money spent on upgrades and this is probably cheaper and more enjoyable in the long run.

I don't have the experience to recommend any particular high end brands besides Dynaudio and Focal but I can't stress how important the front stage is.

You will definitely want to power the fronts. Besides added volume, they become much more dynamic with an amp.

Member "Niebur3" on here has lots of good advice and very good deals on high end stuff.

 

I had Audio Control LC7 on my 08 Accord. Clean Sweep sucks I hear. A Lot of the Accord owners switched to the LC6i/LC7. Which ever one you chose. The LC7 has aux audio Jack for MP3 player which my car already had. Since yours does not have one the LC7 maybe the one you want. The Audio Control pieces are much les expensive than the clean sweep. There are other more complicated stuff you need to know about too. Let me know if interested in knowing. This may help you even more.

 

Get a nice set of Comps for the Front (ID xs6.5, Focal, dyns what ever sounds good to you) with a 4 channel amp (or 5/6 ch amp if you plan to go single amp) sound deadening and some thing for your signal. That should be a first good step..
I had an old boss that would amp the stock rears and a high end set of comps for the front...toss in a sub and he was done. Hope that helps, my 2 cents worth.

 

I was really surprised how good the stock rears in the TL sounded amped. This is a very good point.

I'm installing my ID CTX65s that used to be in the front in the rear only because I have them already otherwise I would be happy with the stocks amped.

 

Clean sweep sums the signal and flattens it out for cars where the factory radio does not offer a full-range, flat signal. The TL radio does offer a full-range, very flat signal pre-amp.... a device like the CS is not needed in our car. The stock signal is not perfectly flat, but very, very close.

 

I appreciate you letting me learn from your mistakes!

I've never listened to any of those manufacturers to be honest. I think I need to take a trip to a local car audio dealer and see if they carry anything you've mentioned.

Im going to check out Niebur3, thanks for the tip. I also agree with you (after many negative experiences to the contrary) that spending money on quality in the beginning pays off over time. I won't be feeling guilty unless I buy the wrong gear.

Thanks for the info ParaSurfer! If I understand this correctly, the Audio Control LC7 is a Line Output Converter that will take the outputs from the stock amp and convert them into inputs for Pre-Amp? (before sending them to my aftermarket amp). And using this LOC specifically will allow me to maintain my 5.1 channels?

I am 100% interested in knowing everything potentially required. I'm thirsty for as much info I can get here and really appreciate it. Thank you very much.



Thanks carologist. Can I just get some quick clarification on what you mean by using a single amp? Also something for my signal.. meaning a 3sixty or something of that nature?

Definitely some good advice on powering the rear deck I didn't even consider that. If it has been confirmed that it sounds great then that is definitely something to consider.

Can I power the rear deck with the same amp that will power the aftermarket front stage?

Thanks for confirming that. I think powering the rear is now a really good idea for the first step here. Especially if I'm saving money not having to replace them.

Didn't know that. Thanks for clarifying, I was under the impression that the signal was skewed preamp. Definitely some misinformation in some other threads.

 

bumpy

 

Really? Seems like everyone is going with the 3sixty.2, etc and recommending them. If our signal is already flat that'd be GREAT

 

The 3sixty.X, Bitone.1, and some others offer a full range EQ and processing.

 

Whats the whole deal with a 3sixty anyways? Can I get away with decent sound w/o having to purchase one?

 

Nope

 

^ How about throwing in an explanation there.

 

You can have decent (and even good) sound without one. Get a quality set of components and use the crossovers that come with them. Don't use a LOC, just wire the pre-amp signal to some RCAs (around 1V, full range and mostly flat). The signal is plenty good enough for a good quality sound. 100 times better than stock.

If you want a very good, or excellent, sound system, then you will likely need to process the signal...

 

Excellent info, thank you very much for confirming that. I didn't think I needed one.. and I guess I can just add a 3sixty at any time if I feel I want better sound. So there's no point in shelling out the money right away especially if on a budget.

Why do you advise against using an LOC? I thought the purpose of them was to convert the preamp signal for use with an aftermarket amp. How would you manage that without an LOC?

 

I'd like to know this also. I have an LOC in my kick near the factory amp but If i can get better SQ by not using it then I'll do that. I'll be using 2 amps if that makes a difference.

 

The LOC takes both the stereo + and -, runs the + through a resistor and just maps them to the RCA connector. The resistor can impede some frequency range becuase most use a $0.00001 resistor mass produced by convicts in china to meet minimum standards.

You can cut the end off of a RCA, strip the wire back and connect the midde to the + and outside to the - and do the same thing without the resistor. ...or use something like this:
http://www.opentip.com/Electronics-C...p-1574894.html

 

Huge, thanks for that tip. I thought the LOC actually modified the signal in some way that was necessary.. it makes much more sense to do the conversion yourself since RCA is just +/- anyways.

Can I ask what the purpose is of the resistor then? Why even have it in there?

Are there higher quality LOCs that would be recommended as opposed to doing the conversion yourself? (not that I'm against doing it myself because I actually want to, just curious because I've read a lot of people making recommendations to specific LOCs.. just not sure why)

 

800 bucks - I could buy a few feet of silver wire. - oh yea shopping spree time !!!

No reason to replace all the speakers - just the front, and buildf from there !!!

 

ain't that the truth "focal owners"

Focal's sound like someone beating a Marie Calendar Pie Tin !!! Of course they like the way they sound, it justifies the money they've wasted.

 

lol@convicts in china. But yeah, typical car audio branded LOCs generally have a limited bandwidth, and even within that bandwidth, the signal isn't flat. Since consumer car audio LOCs utilize such small, and inexpensive transformers, you'll get the limited bandwidth I was talking about. For example, David Navone brags that his LOCs exhibit bandwidth extending down to 80 hz. Roll off after that occurs at 12 db/oct, so by 20 hz, you're 24 db down in output. Usable, but you can do better, albeit with a considerably higher cost.

Source is the most important and should not be skimped on.

 

So in conclusion, avoiding an LOC and going straight from the factory amp to the aftermarket amp will avoid any bandwidth issues?

 

The pre-amp signal in our TLs is pretty good. Just run it to some RCAs hardwired, buy some decent components and use the stock crossovers and you will be a million times happier than the stock. When you want to get even better sound with some upgrades, then a 3sixty or a bitone is nice place to start and you can work from there.

I would rather see you spend an extra few hundy on some comps now and add a 3sixty later than buy cheap comps now and process them. However, everybody is different.

Here is a quote from on of TMs threads summarizing my experiences on the net regarding car audio:
...so you need to spend a good amount of time determining who you want to take advice from. Not listening to me a good place to start...

 

Can you recommend something as an alternative to Focals? I have not heard Focals so I cant comment but I need something higher end and long lasting.

 

The post-amp signal does some EQing. It is from 80-20K hertz with a bit of a dip (-12 ish) around 1000 to 3000. The stock tweet has a cap in it to filter out the lower range probably around 3200 (guessing with some test tones). It is probably fine.

The pre-amp signal is full range and pretty flat.

I imagine that you can use either with good results on a comp set with crossovers.

 

jda, thanks for the sound advice, it means a lot. What you're saying about non-processed components now and the option to add processing later as required makes complete sense for a staged, budgeted upgrade.

Can you recommend some decent component sets and maybe an amp that I can find some reviews/pricing on?

@ advising me not to listen to you.

 

Just to clarify, when you refer to post-amp and pre-amp are you referring to after and before the stock or aftermarket amp?

Does it make sense to use the stock tweets in tandem with the new ones from the component set? If I replace the tweeters, will the stock cap still be in effect on the new ones?

 

Nobody can really tell you what you might like. Anybody who say stuff sounds like "pie tins," "best sounding," "worst something" are full of shit. All that it means is that they might like or dislike something for any number of reasons. These people fit into the category that I posted of either having an agenda or being unable to apply their knowledge to your situation. However, there are some sets that nearly everybody will agree sound like shit... so you have to choose what to believe.

Find a local audio shop and listen to some sets. Pay special attention to sets with fabric (silk) tweeters versus metal tweeters - 2 totally different sounds. On sets in your price range, silk tweeters will probably be more laid back, slightly less detail and not be as harsh at high levels. Metal tweets will have more detail, be more aggressive but can get kinds screechy at higher listening levels. THIS IS IMPORTANT: higher end stuff will sound totally different and the fabric (silk) domes will get more detailed and the metal tweets will be less harsh.

In your price range (assuming $200-400), a few sets that I have liked are Boston Pro60 (olden days, but still solid), Hertz ESK, Focal Polyglass, Image Dynamics CTX65 and Rainbow SLX (if you love your highs). There are MANY, MANY more choices that sound pretty good and you need to find one that works for you.

If your shops only have stuff from Polk, Kicker, RF, JL Audio, etc. then just pay attention to the type of driver and we can help you find a better driver in that type (fabric tweet to fabric tweet, strong midbass to strong midbass etc.). You can do better than all of these brands that I mentioned in this paragraph.

Few things to look out for that go overlooked: look at sensitivity of 1 watt at 1 meter - the higher the value, the more efficient the speakers are and the more sound you will get with less power. Try and get over 90db.

Listen to some stuff and then report back, if you can. If you just want to take a leap of faith, then let us know for some suggestions, but mine would be Image Dynamics CTX65 for silk domed set and Focal Polyglass for metal.

 

Yes, on the amp signals. Unless you replace all of your speakers, then you will still need the amp for the center, rears so you will need to keep it in.

Ditch the stock tweeter. The crossovers on your new set will split the appropriate signal between the midbass and tweeter and do a better job than the cap did on the stock.

 

Thanks again jda.. really appreciate you're help here once again and a good perspective on user reviews...

I will check out some local audio shops this weekend and will post back. We can take it from there as far as specific products go.

So as a first step, this is what I intend to accomplish.. let me know if it makes sense.

- Sound deaden front doors (and maybe rear deck?)
- Replace front speakers and tweeters with a quality component set (TBD)
- Use crossovers that came with the component set
- Take the speaker wire from the factory amp, and solder on some RCA lines to them... run the RCAs to a 4chan aftermarket amp.
- Use the same 4chan aftermarket amp to power the new fronts and stock rear


If this makes sense I just have three questions:

- Since the component set will run at 4ohms and the rear speakers will run at 2ohms.. will the same 4chan amp be able to power both sets?
- Will the rear deck be able to handle the same amount of power that is being sent to the front?
- Since I am maintaining the stock amp, the center channel will remain intact incase any DVD-A's we to be used?


Thanks again.

 

The pre-amp SUCKS at full tilt its still less than a VOLT,

That is why I have a Linear Class A line driver on mine.

I realize my line driver cost more than some folks Amp setups, But the signal must be bossted correctly,

Several ways symbilink SLDIN.blt.f with SLB-U and then to RCA's or many other providers or line drivers.

 

Mine was 992 mv, to be exact. Most decent amps will function perfectly fine with anything over 300-400 mv. I am glad that you are happy with your nice stuff.

Most 4 channel amps will work fine at either 4 or 2 ohms on each individual channel. The fronts and rears can also be set independently so that you can give less power to the rears. The stock rears will not be able to handle that much more power than what they are getting... maybe another 50%. This should be fine. Rears could be another incremental upgrade.

Don't buy a turd for an amp.

The center will stay in tact if you keep the stock amp. It is an easy, cheap and very nice upgrade though. Even an entry level 2-way 3.5 is WAY better than the stock 3.5 in there. Seems like Infinity Reference 3032 and Boston S35 are common choices around here. ...roundabout $50 bucks from ebay for 2 (you only need 1) and you can usually sell the other on here.

 

Should I check the mv coming from the stock amp? Can I use a MM to do this?

Im sure I'll find this out once I get the amp, but how is the power managed between the individual channels? (front vs rear)

I definitely don't plan to buy a shit amp.. I've been down that road before.

Regarding the center speaker.. so it's replaced with something like the infinity but still receives its power from the stock amp correct? or will this need to be powered with something else as well? Thanks for the tip on that speaker.. getting one and selling the other will be no problem.

Not too sure I understand this line driver thing.. I tried to read up on it a bit. If I understand this correctly it sits between the line out from the factory amp and the line in on the aftermarket amp. It's purpose is to add more voltage to the signal in order to result in a better signal to noise ratio? And thats only if you're having issues with noise.. I dunno...

 

Went to a local audio shop and literally spent 5 hours with the owner talking and listening to different sets of speakers. I had the opportunity to listen to Focals and hands down they had the cleanest, best sounding audio so luckily it didnt take much time for me to make a decision.

I picked up an Alpine PDX-4.100 amp at a very fair price to power them, but did not purchase the speakers yet as I am unsure at this point of which size.

The one's I was listening to which fit my budget nicely are the Polyglass 165 VB. The guys at the shop told me though that 6.5" speakers arent shallow enough to fit in the TL and that I need to install 5.25".

Is this true? Am I safe picking up the 6.5 inchers? I see all kinds of people using 6.5" through the threads here.

 

He's lying to you, I fit the k2p UV in the doors with an addition to a spacer. Then I upgraded to the utopias. Did you get a chance to listen to any of the higher end lines of Focal?