Csmit176

What's the best fix for a manual tranny? I have an 08 TL-s MT that doesn't "engage" fully into 3rd every now and again. Since there are no switches, should I just change the fluid?

Majofo

GM Synchromesh FM.. search.

OntheJob

Went to my local Honda dealer today to pick up crush washers, and ATF ( dont flame, I am trying to pass the "certified acura" inspection" and its only going in for a few days for the "color" ...

Spoke with the parts guy, interesting convo, I was picking his brain about the FM issue with the fluids and trans issues... without me even saying ANYTHING about it, he stated the following:

" well we have been seeing mainly the failures of trans coming in here from two things : Fluid other then the Honda ATF, and the Failure in the pressure switches"

Disclaimer: He said the statement about the fluid, and THIS IS NOT MY MAIN POINT SINCE WE HAVE COVERED THAT.

My point: Looks like Honda is finally catching on to the pressure switch issue, I was almost floored when he said it... glad their catching on.. better late then never.

I hate cars

One down, one to go.

It makes me mad that he would lie like that and yes, he's lying. In order to know that he would have to survey every car that comes in there. Assumptions turn into facts and then you have misinformation spread by the dealers themselves.

OntheJob

yeah who knows.. I explained him your concept about the type F fluid and actually got him to say "while on the clock at the desk and in a Honda shirt"

"sure makes sense, and I could see how it could work"

-about to pull my trans fluid now after 3 thousand miles curious to see if I see any shavings with running the Royal purple fluid... I may actually run this batch of z-1 for 3 thousand miles just to compare the findings on the drain plug..... then do the same with d4 or the type F... and compare all 3 with the Royal Purple... I will update you with a pic on the drain here in about 30 or so with the findings "if any" on the Royal Purple after 3k.

navarretg

I completed my fill and drain with Redline ATF Racing fluid yesterday. So as of now, the car sits with new 3 & 4 pressure switches and new ATF. I can't tell if it made a huge difference because my car had mobile 1 atf in it before my last atf change. But the mobile 1 did make a HUGE difference from the honda Z1!!

I can go to sleep now more easily knowing my transmission is well protected from any old z1 fluid and worn pressure switches.

While I was draining the fluid, I had my car on ramps and decided to turn the car on while draining the remaining fluid left in the torque converter. Was that a good idea? Did I hurt anything while the car was in park and running? Just trying to help out any future diy members on here.

hleapha

Just an update on my '05TL with new 3rd and 4th switches and a 3x3 of Redline Racing ATF (type F). I have been running this setup for about 3-4 months and put about 3k miles after looking into my shutter issue.

The shutter went away immediately. Great feeling, precise shifts. It shifts the way a car is supposed to shift. When it's cold in the morning, the shifts are firmer (due to viscocity) and goes back to normal after 1/4 mile or so. I checked the fluid from the dip stick vs new fluid and it is very close in color and smell, especially since there is still 10-15% of old fluid left in there. I was super happy. I am also super happy to have made this change. Very intersting thread indeed. :-)

2000tltranny

Hi - I hate cars, I have a 2000 tl with 85k miles - original tranny. Are these pressure switches the same on a 2000 tl? I noticed my tranny sliped in 2nd for the 1st time, is it to late to try some changing the pressure switches and claening the solenoids and doing a drain/refill? Can my tranny be saved? Or all these remidies for 06+ only?

odypyro

Hi!
I'm new to this forum (first post too) so pls let me know if this post is inappropriate and i will take it down.

Firstly, Thanks to IHC and Inaccurate for all their contribution to the understanding of AutoTrannies and how they work specifically in the 3G Acura TL. its been amazing reading this thread so far.

I've also been reading the other thread about the Racing ATFs. I dont have a TL but my wife has an 04 Ody which i believe, are similar in construction.

I never owned Hondas or Acuras before til 2005. Never had much issues until i started buying later than year 2000 models.
Last month, after only 10k mi since i got it (it has a total of 171k now) my wife's Ody started to slip going from 2nd to third and vice versa. It revs to 5k++ rpm before connecting 3rd and repeatedly does it on the fwy but not on local. I tried to clean the solenoid filters and they are relatively clean but the Z1 was dark, so i had it flushed with Z1 still. it did help a bit and now only slips a little. we stopped using it for the moment until we can find a soln that doesnt involve replacing the unit. I always thought that Honda ATF is the only ATF that can be used til i read this forum.

My question is. with the similarities the 3G TL has with the 04 Ody, do you think these findings will apply also? I'm pretty sure the pressure switch will need changing (as a wear item). I also bought the cooler, filter and the magnefine and will install them regardless, but the ATF part i am not sure.

any thoughts? and Thank You.

Inaccurate

Type F would still apply as long as it is not a CVT trans. I highly recommend that you do a 3x3 with the Redline Racing atf PROVIDED THAT YOUR TRANS IS NOT A CVT.

odypyro

Hi Inaccurate!

Thank You. I'm pretty sure the Ody isnt a CVT type. I already ordered both racing and lightweight and will proceed with the racing as soon as i get all the parts together. Will update with results soon.

I hate cars

Looking forward to your results in the van. I'm curious if you will see more or less of a difference than we experience in the lighter TLs.

Acura604

I got my transmission fluids changed today at an acura dealership. I noticed that they have 'discontinued' the ATF-Z1 and replaced it with ATF-DW1. According to the service brochure, Z1 is officially discontinued effective 2011...soooo anyone wanna figure out the properties of this new DW1 stuff??? could it be better now???


**bonus: the dealer agreed to change my driver side seat and replace it under warranty. I told them I noticed it was wearing excessively for such a new car and that i've purchased 10 acuras now and would contact acura corporate to see if they would do something for my loyalty. after that, dealership said 'yes we will order and change it for you'.

EDIT: NVM.. dw1 discussion thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/honda-discontinues-z1-atf-effective-2011-a-785893/

odypyro

Hi IHC, I will post the results soon as i observed them. I ordered the parts and i am hoping they arrive by wed.

I drove the Van today total 10mi. I noted that it didnt slip today. there was no whine when i left the house but there was a slight whine when coming back. heat related issue probably with the TC.

Question tho, In preparation for the Flush i am doing for my Ody, I'm trying to understand how to do the flush properly.
I did a search. kinda weak,(spent 3 hrs) but it just turned up a lot of topics that are not really what i am looking for.
Your comments in several threads mentioned a flush with near 100% replacement and thats one i am targeting.
I'd like to list out the steps and if you can, Please correct me if i am wrong.

1. drain ATF from sump. (approx -3.5q)
2. fill Sump (+3.5q)
3. figure out which port on the radiator cooler is in (from tranny) and pull that to a bucket.
4. pull the out (to Tranny) and attach a funnel to pour ATF while the engine is started.
5. prepare to pour ATF while asking helper to start engine.
6. start engine for ... how long? and expect how much to come out?
maybe 5 secs = 1 qt? (this step i need to figure out so i know how big a funnel to use.) (total approx 6qts?)

I may be overthinking this (which is a bad habit of mine). I checked the FSM and i do see the lines are there from TC to cooler. but i couldnt figure out if, while idle, TC will suck new ATF from sump, and direct the rest out to cooler.

I did see your post in one that said it does. I'll take your word for it
so in this case, would you know the answer my question in step 6?

Thank You.

CK

I hate cars

That's very close. The only thing I would change is you refill through the standard refill hole, not the unused cooler line. You should be able to keep up with the rate the fluid comes out. At first people tend to get nervous and they fill quicker than it comes out. Its a good idea to mark the 3 quart line on the bucket so you know where you're at. If you have bubbles or air coming from the cooler line you need to add fluid quicker. When all is said and done you will have to adjust the level based on the dipstick anyway so the only goal while the engine is running with the line off is to not let it suck air.

odypyro

I might not be able to refill thru the Refill Hole since its covered by the TSB/recall (?) jet for the 2nd clutch. the only alternative really from the diagram is the cooler (to sump) port. I'll could use a longer hose and fill from 3 ft up so gravity can help...

or... i could pull the hose, plug it up and just attach another funnel/hose so i can use the TSB fill plug inlet.

I'll figure it out when i get there.

Thanks IHC!

CK

Sanyin

Hey, i got a 2000 TL as well 204k now, i replaced the switches and it made a small difference, I started a thread a while back on the fluid choices for the 2000TL and am waiting for confirmation that non-Friction Modified fluids are ok in our cars.

Heres the link:
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-1999-2003-98/2000-tl-trans-fluid-choices-795665/

I hate cars

It works fine. Just did a '99 a couple months ago. I posted the details in either this thread or the ATF thread. It was on it's death bed and now it's perfect after both the solenoids and Type F.

tsill

I have an 04 auto that recently started to show what I thought were trans slipping problems. It has 95000 miles on it and some of you commented on a post I made when I changed the fluid for the first time at around 45k if I remember correctly. Might have been 55k. At that time the drain plug had tons of sludge and metal shavings all over it.

Recently it started acting like it couldnt figure out what to do after shifting into 5th. The car would shift from 4th to 5th at around 50 and light pressure on the throttle to maintain speed. With the same light pressure the car would hit 5th, drop from 1600 to around 1300 rpms. Then it would bounce/surge between 1300 and 1500 rpms. Then the car would drone like it did when the car was new at low rpms in 5th. The vibration damper from Acura never did cure the problem. After reading all 17 pages of this thread and 10's of pages of the fluid thread, my wife thinks I am crazy!

So first off thanks to IHC for the info. I did the 3x3 flush with Redline Racing Type F and it seemed the bounce went away. Shifting was smooth as silk after this and I should mention that after the first drain the plug was exactly like it was when I drained it at 45k, tons of sludge and metal shavings.

The car still seemed to shift into 5th before it needed to. Then I installed the sensors. Immediate difference in the way the car shifted. I really noticed that it held 4th longer instead of immediately engaging 5th at slow speeds. Bounce was gone. Drove it small distances on three occasions and finally I got what I was looking for, the car threw a code. I've been chasing this bounce for a while and finally I had something to go off of short of thinking the trans was shot.

Turns out it was the O2 sensor Bank 1 Sensor 1 stuck lean. As soon as it threw this code it immedately started bouncing the tach. When going through all the maintanence of the trans I dedided to do the egr cleaning. It wasn't that dirty but I am now thinking the egr got some carbon in it and threw the O2 code. Conveniently for me the code took care of itself after driving for about 5 miles and turning the car off. After restarting the code was gone and I again had no bounce.

Moral of the story is the trans 3x3 was super beneficial. Thanks for the suggestion of the Type F fluid. The sensors were also a great recommendation and I am glad that IHC spent the time to let us know about them. And finally I'm hoping that others with surging problem check into the egr and o2 sensor problem.

Heres to hoping my sludged up/metal shaved lightweight tranny lasts another 100k after the oil and sensors!

04socalTL

iTrader: (1)

i wish i would've known about the pressure sensors sooner, my tranny blew on thursday

I hate cars

What do you mean it blew?

odypyro

Reporting back my progress. Today, I changed the pressure switches and cleaned the Solenoid A B and C. C was clogged bad so i replaced the screen gasket with a new one. I wasnt able to get to the other solenoids but i figure they should still be good. i have the spares just in case.
I installed the TruCool 4543 cooler and magnefine. no leaks so far. changed the Factory ATF Filter too. The drain plug has lots of crud and spiky metal stuff. i cleaned that and put in back in, pulled it out and it still has some more. so i did it a few times. i really wanted to flush it with regular ATF but was running out of time.

What confused me was the flush. I did the drain and fill with Redline Racing ATF and then i tried ejecting the old ATF from the cooler in line. the fluid seemed dark for a less than 500mi run fluid and lots of bottom debris in the pail. but i couldnt tell when to stop refilling and flushing. so i stopped at the 8th bottle. wish there was video of this somewhere...

I did a test run, naturally the PCM/ECU was reset because i had to take out the battery. at first, engine idle was going up and down and the Tranny was shifting a bit hard. 1-2 would feel like it was stopping and trying holding me back, it would throw me a bit forward when it shifts. same with 2-3. I didnt do WOT since its a Odyssey. 3-4 was ok. after a few miles it smoothed out. 30mi later. 1-2 was ... normal, so was 2-3 and 3-4... .. i guess i'll have to take a few days before i have something more definitive.
The good thing is, so far no CEL. keeping my fingers crossed it stays that way. Will report back after a few days.

Thanks again to IHC and inaccurate for pioneering this.

CK.

odypyro

I had my wife drive the Van, She drives is mostly anyways. She mentioned that it seems to have more power now and that the Van is more responsive when she accelerates. Thats something i didnt feel but i dont drive it that much to know. 40 mi now and no CEL. yesssss!

CK

Inaccurate

Thanks for the update CK !

04socalTL

iTrader: (1)

i was driving home that day, and as i was slowing down to get off the freeway the car started jerking. i came to a complete stop and once the light turned green i stepped on the gas but she didn't want to move, the engine was responding but the wheels weren't.

hofiveo

http://schaefferoil.com/datapdf/204S.pdf This is what I will be using for trans fluid. We have been using Schaeffer Oil products for 7 years. Not starting oil wars but in this thread on page six https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/122-diy-105k-service-timing-belt-water-pump-spark-plugs-thermostat-%2Apics%2A-784622/ you can see what I am doing and products I use in other vehicles. Waiting to here from I Hate Cars and InAccurate about this choice, I like the products and have no problems with them.

Inaccurate

hofiveo,

I took a quick look at the www.schaefferoil.com web site. I did not see where schaefferoil offered a Type F ATF.

The schaefferoil ATF (Dexron Type) would probably be better than the Z1 (what isn't better?). However, a Type F ATF would be the way to go with any brand. And schaefferoil does not offer a Type F.

Z1 << Dexron <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Type F

Any brand Dexron is better than Z1. But, a Type F is way, way, way BETTER than the Dexron.

In summary, I still recommend that you get a Type F (Amsoil or RedLine) fluid, not the schaefferoil. I am not saying anything against the schaefferoil brand. It is just that the schaefferoil is a Dexron type, not a Type F. You really need the type F for superior clutch wear protection.

hofiveo

Thanks for the info Inaccurate. I will be looking for one of those Type F's. Looks like RedLine is most popular.

lsantana954

I'm here at the dealership now cause of a 25-30(2nd-3rd) random shudder. I explained it to the service guy at the counter and mentioned the pressure switch and didnt seem like he knew what i was talking about and of course he asked if there was a check engine light on. So now im waiting on a tech so i can take the car out for a spin with him in it. I'm affraid since its random and no light is on they are not going to do anything bout it(car still under warranty) if so guess ill just have to just buy the switches and change them out myself.

lsantana954

So went out with the mech and it did the shudder for a quick second. Once we got back to the shop he checked the servicing and noticed it was almost a quart low and recommended and drain and fill which i would have ot pay them to do since it is not covered under warranty. The service tech recommended contacting the dealership i purchased the vehicle from and maybe getting them to do the drain and fill being that it was never done even though its a CPO.

I called the service dept of the dealership i purchased the vehicle from and as soon as i started telling him what the problem was he already knew what it was, the torque converter. At first he mentioned there being a bulletin out for it but when i asked him about the bulletin number he wasnt able to pull it up but stated that he has done at least 2 on this model TL. I asked him if there was any way he could contact my service rep where i get my servicing done so i wouldnt have to travel almost 3 hours to get this issue resolved but he said he couldnt, i also spoke to my service rep and explained to him the situation and he stated there was nothing he can do and he couldnt make such a costly repair just off of what some other service rep says, especially since there isnt a bulletin out for it. So i guess im going to have to drive back up to the original dealership i purchased the vehicle from and get this issue resolved. I just hope then when i do go up there it does do the shudder and not waste a trip.

sddale

Would you be able to have the service writer at the dealer that you take it to write up on the invoice that the shudder was present and what they recommended for it. Even if that won't work for the dealer that you bought it from it would be good to have that noted.

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

So the CPO warranty is only valid at the selling dealer?

I hope not.

I'd be in touch with Acura Corporate. That is BS. What if you lived 1k away?

lsantana954

Yea that would be something to consider. I called a couple of the other acura dealerships around town and no luck, no one has come across that issue with the third gen TLs. I did get a hold of the local Honda dealership and the service rep mentioned that some of the hondas had the same issue and ended up being the torque converter, and stated that a reprograming of the computer took care of that and the the converter didnt have to be replaced.

lsantana954

no the local shop would warranty the work if they knew for a fact that the converter was the problem, but they wont do the work just off of what another service tech says, even though its from another acura dealership.
Basically the local dealer wants to start trouble shooting the issue by doing a 3x3 drain/fill which i have to pay for and that they say "might" fix the issue, but the dealership i bought it from says theyve seen this several times and if it indeed is the problem theyll do the repair.

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

Maybe this has or hasn't been explained, but why is everyone only replacing the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches?

Majofo

there are only pressure swithches for 3rd & 4th gear.. the accumulator and pressure solenoids control pressure to 1st and 2nd afaik.

wasupdog

iTrader: (2)

after changing out my switches this weekend, there's no doubt to me that they lose their calibration over time or x-number of miles, although my mileage is low. it's easy for me to tell because i just moved to a hilly area and the car held the gears for too long. it's more precise and shifts faster now.

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

I figured it was something along those lines. So then...why isn't anyone changing the accumulator and pressure solenoids? Are those just items that don't really "go bad"?

Sorry. I'm not the brightest.

I hate cars

I'm not sure if Majofo was referring to an electronic version but usually accumulators are mechanical. Just a piston and a spring that take the shock out of shifts. Maybe the TL uses an electronic version, I don't know.

Pressure solenoids are just that, solenoids. The switch is an input to the ECU and the solenoids are an output. Switches can lose their calibration by a hardening of the diaphram while solenoids usually work perfectly or don't work at all.

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

Got it. I'd always wondered why only two switches were being replaced, and that explanation makes sense now.

Dare I pry your brain some more then...why do the 3rd and 4th gears use switches while the other gears use solenoids?