I got the GT. I'm not a fan of Kia's or Hyundai's exterior designs, but I do hear good reviews of the EV6. I also heard good reviews of the Ioniq 5 as well. I'm also planning on changing my EV's every year as I can keep getting the $7500 tax credit without taking any loss in trade in values. (In fact, the trade in value of my Mach E GT is now currently $5k more than what I paid.) Plus, I get the $7500 tax credit. Financially, I am way ahead. Hybrids and PHEVs/EV's are at a huge advantage for trade in values now because of the rising gas prices. I would not buy any ICE vehicle during this time as you're likely to lose significantly more with lower trade in values with ICE as well as paying MSRP or more.

My next EV would probably be CX-70 or Acura EV once released.

I am picking up the Rav4 Prime this Monday. The trade in values for the Prime are also outrageous now as well. I'm itching to trade in my Acura MDX as well for at least a Hybrid like a Highlander Hybrid Platinum.

 

I'll see how it goes. May do just that. Id love to keep getting tax credit. That said, I really like the EV6s interior and how they included a heat pump. None of the Mustangs have it, and that was a thing for me. Apparently it uses battery scavenged heat and is the most efficient PEV in winter so far. Kindof like its carrying around a geothermal of its own basically. That plus the performance.

 

The $7500 tax credit is not unlimited and starts phasing out by 50% for the year when the manufacturer hits 200,000 EV sales. The tax credit is reduced to 25% in the year following the 200,000 EV sales. Tesla and GM have already tapped out, and Toyota, Ford and Nissan will likely tap out later this year.

 

Given they have dropped Tesla from ESG, and Exxon Mobile has a higher ESG rating now, I wonder what that means for the future of electric cars.

 

I know, but at least for the next couple of years, I'm looking at Mazda, then maybe Acura/Honda, and then probably Hyundai/Kia. I'm already getting a Toyota Rav4 Prime (delayed shipment until next week for pickup.) There's also BMW, Audi, VW, MB, etc.

Plenty of EV manufacturers not reaching 200k vehicles. I don't expect Nissan to tap out soon yet. I already own a Mustang Mach E GT. I'm not going to buy another.

Either way, the value of my EV has already increased compared to what I paid. Even if I don't get the full tax credit, it looks like I still make money off changing them out every year.

 

According to Reuters, S&P dropped Tesla from their ESG (Environment, Social and Governance) Index because of claims of “racial discrimination and crashes linked to its autopilot vehicles.” Their decision regarded the Social and Governance parts of the metric, not the Environment. This was a Tesla specific issue and not a broad EV issue, at least as I interpret it.

 

Maybe means more to the future or merits of ESG funds vs the future or merits of electric cars or any other industry or product.

Among the 170 funds with ESG mandates that focus on U.S. stocks, 40 (less than a quarter) have outperformed the S&P 500.

 

As I understand, the tax credit can only be applied to taxes due. So if you owe $3000 in taxes, you only get $3000 out of the $7500 tax credit (or whatever the EV tax credit is). It is a horrible/wasteful way to do this incentive.

 

To only have $3000 worth of tax liabilities, you'd have to make only $40K a year. Short of retirees, I'm pretty sure someone making $40K isn't going to be buying an EV.

 

I get it...no one here is a tax expert (unless you are one!) but...In my case, I had no 'taxes due' to the IRS for 2021 solely because I overpaid my quarterly estimated taxes in the 4 quarters of 2021, when taxes were done I had a $9,500 refund due. This is not necessarily unusual as for 2020 taxes I had over $21,000 due from the IRS because of overpaying on quarterlies. I think these statements above are getting differently worded. One says 'if you owe $3000 in taxes' and one says '$3000 in tax liabilities'. So in my case in 2021 I did not 'owe $3000 (or more) in taxes, in the example, so I would not even have gotten so much as $3000 as a tax credit, because the IRS money owed me ($9,500), and in another example I would have had a auto EV tax credit because because I clearly had a 'tax liability' for the 2021 year in excess of the $7500. I guess it's the difference between having a tax liability for the year, and a question of 'did I owe taxes' at the end of the year vs a tax refund. And hopefully I did not confuse this more. If it's simply a function of 'do I have a refund' at year end, then that would just encourage me not to pay quarterly taxes to make sure I owe the most possible on my yearly taxes, and of course hope I duck the wrath of the IRS in going after me for what I think is a rule that allows them to fine you for having a tax owed of $1000 or more when your taxes are done---but that is the whole reason for the 1040 ES form---to try to keep you from owing more than $1000, as I understand it. And obviously, I am not a tax expert. I am interest in an EV at some point and want to make sure I get the credit, just like anyone else would.

 

The EV credit is based on your total tax liability, not your taxes due. For instance, if your tax liability is $20K for the year but due to estimated payments and withholdings the IRS owes you a refund of $5K (aka taxes due of -$5K) with the EV credit you’ll actually get a refund of $12.5K. Whereas, if you have just $5K of tax liability and you are owed a refund of $100, you’ll end up getting $5100 back (since your claimed EV credit can’t exceed your total tax liability)

 

I'm no tax expert either, but it seems like you may be confusing tax refunds with what your tax liabilities are.

 

OK, that's all helpful. I think I was getting confused by statement like this (As I understand, the tax credit can only be applied to taxes due. So if you owe $3000 in taxes, you onlyget $3000 out of the $7500 tax credit (or whatever the EV tax credit is). It is a horrible/wasteful way to do this incentive.)...and a couple other statements. My error I'm sure, and it made o sense...so think for clarifying.

 

The problem is that people are really bad at using standard terminology when discussing taxes. For instance, for tax preparers "tax liability" and "taxes owed" are synonymous and sometimes used interchangeably. However, for the general public, "taxes due" and "taxes owed" become conflated, which is why "owed" is a particularly confusing and ambiguous term. Once the verbage is standardized and consistent, it becomes a lot easier to understand.

 

Here's the deal for me. I will not buy an electric vehicle until I can travel 800-1000 miles/charge. I like to roadtrip, and driving (for instance) from my home in VA to upper Michigan I can do in 13 hours. In an electric, I'd have to stop every 300 miles (or less!) to sit around and charge. That's not acceptable. A one-day or driving turns into 3+ days. No way is that good enough. Sorry.

I like the notion of electrics, but they're not there yet in terms of range and reliability. More power to the folks that want one if it meets their needs. Onward and conquer with your silent mobile! I'll catch up with you when I get one.

Peace.... --T

 

What are you sorry for? Your reasoning is inline with most other people thinking about purchasing an EV. Most EV purchasers have an ICE vehicle to do the occasional road trip, or will just rent one. It will take time for the tech to catch up.

 

800-1000 miles a day on a roadtrip?? How enjoyable is that? I'd put that on par with the torture (I mean joy) of flying commericial. I'm with you on EV's not being ready for prime time but, not for your reasons. I'm in when they can fully charge as fast you can fill a gas tank and charging stations are as common as gas stations. I too like to roadtrip and I don't want to plan my roadtrip around the locations of EV charging stations.

 

Yep, 800-1000 in a day. I don't want a trip that would normally take a day to take 2-3. One man's torture is another man's pleasure, I guess.

 

My wife and I left central Florida on a Friday afternoon, and arrived in Tucson, AZ in time for a late dinner Sunday night. ~2,500 miles. Two nights in a hotel and two drivers. I love driving.

 

It won't be 800-1000 in our lifetimes. We would need a combination of much more dense batteries (simply making them bigger would add too much weight, which would ruin efficiency and lead to a hard range limit) less powerful motors and smaller vehicles, which no one seems willing to accept.

However, by the next generation of EVs, I think we will see half of that (400-500 miles) from mainstream EVs that are tuned for range (rather than performance), and given the fast-charge tech that's already out there, a 30 minute stop for a snack and to stretch your legs would be enough time to get from 10 to 80%change. Most reasonable road trips become possible at that point.

Personally, as a family with two cars, I am fairly sure that ONE of our next new cars will be an EV. Our road trips are less demanding than yours (I used to do 600+ miles in a day easily but nowadays I have kids who won't put up with more than about half that) but I still want a gas or PHEV car to remain flexible and road-trip ready.

 

I bet you enjoy a good ole root canal and a poke in the eye with a sharp stick

 

You two are lightweights True lovers of the drive would have done a straight shot and arrived in Tucson, AZ in time for a Saturday Lunch

 

I don't mind stopping for 15-20 minutes every few hours, so the EV6 will work fine for me. Honestly, it's probably safer to move around every few hundred miles.

 

The more one uses fast charge, the quicker the battery capacity degrades.
I don't think ICE cars loose distance if the gas pump has a faster fill rate.

 

Plus, many charging stations can charge two to three times as much per kilowatt than what we pay if we charge at home.

 

I hadn't heard this before but just looked into it. The conclusion, for articles written about fast-charging in general (mostly about phones) and also about fast-charging in EVs is that the difference is almost insignificant, amounting to 1-3% more capacity loss over 10 YEARS of use.

 

Even with the higher prices charging on the road, it's still often cheaper than gas. The breakeven point for me (ICE that gets 30mpg @ $6.29/gallon vs EV that gets 3 miles/kWh) would be a whopping $0.63/kWh for electricity to be as expensive as gas.

The thing also to consider is the time spent annually in total getting gas vs charging. Normally I fill up once a week, which takes about 10 min (time spent pumping gas + the detour I have to make to get gas). In a year that amounts to 8.6 hours. For charging, it takes me about 10 seconds to plug in and unplug, which for commute purpose I would do once every 4 days. That comes out to 15 min of time spent "refueling" an EV in a year. I'd already be ahead 8 hours compared to pumping gas, which comes out to 16 30-minute charging sessions on the road I could make before spending in total the same amount of time recharging in a year as I do pumping gas. Obviously if I were to do long roadtrips every week, I'd easily spend more time charging than pumping gas, but if I only ever make 1 or 2 long trips a year, I'd come out ahead even with EV charging on the road vs pumping gas weekly at home.

 

This is my understanding also. The so-called "damage" is minimal and would take a long time. I understand that this "damage" is more prevalent if one commonly does deep discharges, down to 0-5% State Of Charge and commonly does deep State of Charges, up to 100%, all on DC fast charging. These scenarios are not likely for a normal users to commonly do.

 

Interesting perspective on “time spent.” I like it! And yes, even if a charging station charges 2X or 3X more than home-electricity, the EV is still much less expensive to operate than an ICE car. My point was to add another con to charging stations (small number available, may have to wait to use one, 800V has a very minor adverse effect on battery life, etc.)

I am very much in favor of EVs. I may replace another car and I have recently driven two Kia EV6 GTs (nice car but very bland. Designed for the masses. Soft suspension. Dull steering. No where near as engaging as the RDX. ) I also drove a Tesla Model 3 Long Range and a Performance. If I go Model 3 it will be a Performance for certain – intoxicating power!

In my case, I have no intent to use a charging station. I drive perhaps 120 miles per day for work and can easily recharge any EV to full overnight with 240V. If my wife and I want to travel farther, we will simply take and enjoy our lovely RDX!

As I crunch my numbers, I also factor in the 10% to 15% charging loss all EVs have. If an EV requires 27 kWh to drive 100 miles, you must add about 30 kWh of electricity to “replace” that 27 kWh actually used. It doesn’t meaningfully change the picture, but is still part of the equation.

 

Unlike the OP, we love our 2019 RDX and currently have none of the issues he experienced. The Acura is my wife's ride and last August I traded in our 2006 Lexus RX for a Mach-E. We both really couldn't be happier. We use the RDX for trips of over four hours, although I have taken the "Mustang" on a long trip that used charging stations without a problem (Ford provides 250 kW of free public charging). I usually charge the Mach-E during the day using the power from our solar panels and Tesla Powerwall, so over 80% of the energy comes from solar. This "free" energy leads to guilt-free enjoyment of the Mach-E's intoxicating driving properties, which reduces my range from the EPA 270 miles to 245 miles.
Surprisingly, the Mach-E has virtually the same cargo capacity as the RDX. When I picked up a patio swing with the Mach-E at Costco it fit with no room to spare. When we picked up a second one this past weekend with the RDX, it had only 1" to spare.
The main advantages (above fuel savings) of the Mach-E for me are the huge screen for the back-up and 360 cameras and the instant acceleration at all speeds. Alex on Autos rated the RDX #7 and the Mach-E #2 among the over 300 vehicles he tested last year, so I think we're all winners on this forum.

 

So is that what a charging station normally is...2 to 3 times your home price? Las Vegas/Henderson is about 11 Cents residential---so 22 to 33 cents. And are charging stations as up-front as gas stations are...a somewhat prominent sign, in the case of EV's, that shows the price per kilowatt hour so you know what you are getting into (or is that handled in this digital, wireless world a different way---like it shows up on your infotainment screen or phone before you get there). And as for the 'range' on EV's, I assume the vehicle range numbers manufactures advertise are probably under ideal conditions, but in more real-world, with either an air- conditioner or heater going, headlights on and hills, etc. what does that do a 400 mile range. Is it a significant drop? And do different EV's (Ford, Tesla, Kia, Volkswagen and so-on.) have different plugs, so when you pull into a charging station, they may or may not have your plug....I was just thinking in the earlier years when there were Tesla charging stations in select places---does Tesla use it's own plug or are these pretty universal? And what is the cost for putting in a charging plug in your house. Is that just 220 with a different plug for the car in your garage? Sorry---but with the way gas prices have gone, and recent comments by El Presidente about this "incredible price transition Americans are going through with these prices", I now don't believe prices are going to come back down. Indeed, the latest I saw was over $6 per gallon by August so while hybrids interested me as we get close to a new car purchase (if the chip issue ever gets resolved), that may even now advance to an EV. I didn't think I was really ready for one, but this gas thing is not going well....except for some in Washington D.C. so looking for some guidance and experience of others.

 

Good write up. Answers - Tesla owns the patent to their changing port/connection in the USA. However, in Europe in 2017 - Tesla uses the CCS standard in Europe, allowing a wide range of cars to charge in stations without an adapter that uses a similar connector. It was a mandate by Europe"Charging prices for non-Tesla drivers will include extra costs to support a broad range of vehicles and site adjustments to accommodate these vehicles, Tesla said.Nov 1, 2021".

So Europe is more progressive to get standards inline for mass adoption than the USA. We currently have 3 plus types and that just increases the cost for mass EV charging stations to carry at least two of the more popular ones - Tesla has their own plug in the USA. Honestly, Tesla better in communication, size in their EV charging plug - that should be the standard (license it to all the other MFG's and EV stations).

400 Mile range may be the highest in the new battery era. As weight plays a big part in efficiency (in ICE or especially an EV) and getting the weight down with smaller batteries that have more power will be the key increasing range - not larger, heavier batteries, Most consumes don't drive 300-400 a day daily, so carrying a lot of extra range you never use besides once a year is heavy and costly.

The charging network is growing, but costs at each are not regulated in terms of what you pay. Plus - who will flip the coin for the vehicle road tax that is in every gallon of gas you buy?

Then there is the host of other issues we have for mass adoption - currently not enough electric to go around (more capacity needed quickly - no one is answering that question), more cost effective vehicle options (not everyone can afford a $40K-70K+EV and then the disposal and/or recycling of the batteries when they get older and use their useful life.

 

https://electrek.co/2022/06/14/ford-...a7eP7i9fGKmngs

This is why I told you to avoid Ford. It's why I'm going EV6, along with the fact that Ford doesn't even have a heat pump. Ford is just bad. I used to work at a Ford dealer. Just no. NEVER FORD.

 

"I told you so!" Seriously, dude? Way to take the high road. You couldn't just let it rest?

 

Fix is a software update. No biggie. Still no issues whatsoever with my Mach E. Again, the value of my car still continues to reach for the moon!

Either way, if I dump this car due to problems (I haven’t experienced any compared to RDX.) I still come out way ahead. I’m not saving hundreds a month due to not needing to pay for gas. Easily make up for it. It still puts so much smiles to my face. Everyone keeps asking me about my car whenever I drive it out. Much faster than the RDX for sure.

Also, this recall is a pre-emptive recall. No issues have been reported to Ford from drivers for this issue. Way better than what Acura did and waited for everyone to complain before initiating a fix years later.

 

Agreed. This guy first was saying how he doesn’t want an EV due to its limitations, then comes back after gas prices shoot up, now considering an EV6….lol

Meanwhile, I’m saving hundreds a month.

 

Well, Ford also stated that the Mach E's now costs $25k more expensive to produce. Guess what that means for me? Higher resale value. Either way, I've been itching to get another EV in a year anyways since I can keep getting that federal tax credits. I'm going to be looking into the Polestar 3. Good luck with your EV6. It looks terrible IMO. Not a fan, and it looks cheap as well. Mach E has more trunk space as well.

Good luck trying to find an EV6 at MSRP. I hear they're hard to find at a good deal. May not be worth it now as I hear gas prices are about to peak soon then come back down.

And look! EV6 isn't all bulletproof either. A recall as well. I wouldn't want my EV rolling away while I'm not around.
Recall Alert: Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV6 Rollaway Risk - Kelley Blue Book (kbb.com)

 

theres a few local dealers that sell them at msrp

 

I ordered mine for MSRP, but your concern is noted.

Looks are in the eye of the beholder, but a PEV without a heatpump is just flawed. 50% range cuts in the cold.

 

Word of advice dude, you’ve been flipping and flopping your opinions and sound really hypocritical. Please just change your attitude and think before you post and no need to start borderline flaming an old thread. What happened to your RDX? No longer raving about it anymore? Now you’ve moved on to the EV6? Starting to realize gas prices are hurting?

Recalls are common, it happens to every manufacturer. The Toyota RAV4 Prime had a stop sale due to a recall two months ago.

Plus, my needs are different than yours. I can easily switch EVs as I can easily afford a couple EVs. I don’t need an EV that needs to have 250 plus miles in the cold. I’m moving to the west coast anyhow so it doesn’t matter to me. I drive less than 40 miles a day, and I charge my EV with a Level 2 charger in my garage every night. I don’t need a heat pump in mine. I wanted my EV to be fast and have instant torque, which is what Mach E GT gives me.

Good luck with your EV6. Knowing Hyundai and Kia, you’re likely to have a lot of issues as well. EVs are relatively new to all these manufacturers except Tesla and GM.

I’ve been planning on getting rid of the MDX soon, and that CX-90 PHEV looks like a really good alternative. No more Acura for me.