Hou-RL

In fact, I would never buy an AMG, a Bentley, Range Rover, Maserati, Jaguar, and countless others simply because their resale values tend to be low, and I’ll simply ignore the fact that they do things no Honda or Toyota can do and that my mindset is most likely driven by my limited resources which probably isn’t true for many other people but yeah my OPINION is correct while your OPINION isn’t.

It isn't resources that drive my decision I assure you of that. Your response was so matter of fact that I had to respond. Everyone's situation can be different. I read it all the time and I respect that but my follow up was because you started the response with "nah". If having a new 911 and Panamera in my garage is resource limited then I guess I don't have an understand what you writing. I wont respond to anything about this any further,

Good day.

YEH

Generally true.

A C Class has better resale than an S Class despite the latter being the better/more prestigious vehicle.

The ES has better resale than the LS.

Porsche is one of the rare exceptions.


#1 factor when it comes to resale value is ATP.

If there are heavy discounts from MSRP, of course resale will be poor since a brand new vehicle can be had significantly lower than MSRP.

But one can look at that as getting the savings up front (resale should really be calculated from ATP and not MSRP).

Based on the ATPs of the GV70 and GV80, resale should be among the best for the segment.

Before the current batch of Genesis models (starting with the GV80), Genesis had fairly large incentives/discounting, but that went away where (pre-chip shortage) Genesis had the lowest incentive spending aside from Porsche.

Just look at the Telluride which has the best resale among 3-row CUVS according to KBB.

Nearing 3 years after launch, the Telluride is still selling at or above MSRP (depending on trim) and that's reflected in used prices.

FactoryMatt

@Hou-RL , i think he means there's an opportunity cost involved in a large outlay for a relatively-fast depreciating asset compared to a 'substitute'. Sure, anyone can write off $30K in depreciation and chalk it up to YOLO, but nobody has unlimited funds, and some folks may make a value judgment that that ~$15K in marginal depreciation increase for the boutique brand is better spent on family trips or sporting equipment or whatever else.

supafamous

https://www.motortrend.com/news/gene...v-of-the-year/

Motor Trend crowns the GV70 the SUV of the year.

sonyfever

Well deserved! Hope Acura learn from GV70 for 4G RDX.

JB in AZ

I have been a Motor Trend subscriber and reader for more years than I want to admit. A couple of big faults with their "Of The Year" award is the car must be a new or substantially updated model this year, and offered for the competition by the manufacturer.

hand-filer

I'm pretty sure that giving the award to a 2 year old or older model wouldn't make good business sense. Readership and advertising revenue would disappear quickly.

JB in AZ

I agree...almost....but with the GV70 winning this year, next year it will not be eligible...so the award will go to a different "new" SUV, which, might be an inferior SUV to the GV70. If the GV70 was able to compete again, it might win again.

I have read C&D, MT, R&T every month, for a whole lot of years. I used to read Auto Week, and Automobile as well... While I am not picking one over the other, C&D has their 10 Best every year, which allows last year's "winner" to be on the list again.

If I am shopping for a new car, next year, I would want the GV70 to be considered along with the new crop of competition, not just what models are NEW that year...in fact, I will carefully avoid any further "first year" models, as I used to faithfully do, until I bought the 19 RDX.

I understand that MT's purpose is not to award the best new car or SUV, but the new model that advances something important in the auto world. I forget their actual stated criteria...

Remember, the Chevy Vega was a COTY winner in 1971. What did it advance? Over-heating aluminum block. poor paint quality, oil leaks, etc? So was the Mustang II in 1974, and the Chevy Monza in 1975. And in 1980, the Chevy Citation....I could go on....SO in my mind, the SUVOTY or COTY doesn't mean it is a good choice, or the best choice for a buyer, rather that the editors of MT think the winner has advanced some facet of building cars.

EDIT to add MT COTY winners: (some real "winners" here)
2021 Mercedes-Benz E-Class
2020 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray
2019 Genesis G70
2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia / Giulia Quadrifoglio
2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV
2016 Chevrolet Camaro
2015 Volkswagen Golf[14]
2014 Cadillac CTS
2013 Tesla Model S
2012 Volkswagen Passat
2011 Chevrolet Volt[15]
2010 Ford Fusion[16]
2009 Nissan GT-R
2008 Cadillac CTS
2007 Toyota Camry
2006 Honda Civic
2005 Chrysler 300
2004 Toyota Prius
2003 Infiniti G35
2002 Ford Thunderbird
2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser
2000 Lincoln LS
1999 Chrysler 300M
1998 Chevrolet Corvette
1997 Chevrolet Malibu
1996 Dodge Caravan
1995 Chrysler Cirrus
1994 Ford Mustang
1993 Ford Probe GT
1992 Cadillac Seville Touring Sedan
1991 Chevrolet Caprice Classic LTZ
1990 Lincoln Town Car
1989 Ford Thunderbird SC
1988 Pontiac Grand Prix
1987 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
1986 Ford Taurus LX
1985 Volkswagen GTI (built at Volkswagen's now-defunct Pennsylvania plant)
1984 Chevrolet Corvette
1983 Renault Alliance (built at AMC's Wisconsin plant)
1982 Chevrolet Camaro Z28
1981 Chrysler K Cars, Dodge Aries and Plymouth Reliant
1980 Chevrolet Citation
1979 Buick Riviera S
1978 Chrysler, Dodge Omni and Plymouth Horizon
1977 Chevrolet Caprice
1976 Chrysler, Dodge Aspen and Plymouth Volare
1975 Chevrolet Monza 2+2
1974 Ford Mustang II
1973 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
1972 Citroën SM (an imported vehicle that was selected overall "Car of the Year")
1971 Chevrolet Vega
1970 Ford Torino
1969 Plymouth Road Runner
1968 Pontiac GTO
1967 Mercury Cougar
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado
1965 Pontiac Motor Division
1964 Ford Motor Company
1963 American Motors (AMC) Rambler (all models: American, Classic, and Ambassador)
1962 Buick Special
1961 Pontiac Tempest
1960 Chevrolet Corvair
1959 Pontiac Motor Division
1958 Ford Thunderbird
1957 Chrysler Corporation (all makes: Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto, Chrysler, and Imperial)
1956 Ford Motor Company
1955 Chevrolet Motor Division
1954 No Award
1953 No Award
1952 Cadillac Motor Division
1951 Chrysler Corporation
1950 No Award
1949 Cadillac Motor Division

JB in AZ

Of the more than 60 cars I have owned, the ONLY one that was a COTY winner was the 2007 Camry, and we bought the new Camry Hybrid that year. Most reliable car we have ever owned.

Take that back we bought a used 2002 PT Cruiser, that we owned less than a year, before the problems with that car started being public knowledge. It was a fun car...

anoop

I was expecting it.

anoop

I think there's something fundamentally wrong with the Japanese model but I don't know what it is. They seem to get overtaken in every area by the Koreans -- electronics (phones, laptops), appliances (washer/dryer/fridge), and now cars. I don't think even Lexus will be able to compete as the Koreans move upscale. I'm not sure why that is. Just like how Germany out competes all the other European countries in manufacturing. I think there's a lot of state help involved, but haven't studied it enough to know for sure.

fiatlux

Having worked with companies in both countries, one thing I’ve noticed is that the Japanese have a higher work ethic and perfectionist mentality, but they have a very very rigid management structure that makes them very very slow to deviate from the plan, and they sometimes spend an inordinate amount of time to make something perfect when good enough is good enough. This makes it very hard for them to adjust to consumer tastes, and they tend to do things their own way because they believe they know what’s best.

On the Korean side, they tend to be much more Western in how they approach consumer product development. It also doesn’t hurt that cost of labor in Korea is lower than Japan, and in the case of H/K/G, Hyundai owns its own steel making company which gives them a significant cost advantage over other companies.

If I want high end quality and precision, I’d still buy Japanese, but for cutting edge consumer goods the Koreans are kicking butt with how fast they able to iterate on features.

FactoryMatt

^^^ this. but, like you said "consumer goods". Cars now are perceived more as appliances and less as driving machines, and this drives (no pun) mainstream demand. The downside (or upside if you're the mfg), is that i don't think cars like the GV70 will age well (not that Acura has done great there lately either). Many won't care about this, but it does still count for something; a car that stands on its own and will always be inherently good styling wise or dynamics wise or whatever. G wagon, Land Cruiser, Macan, etc. I think Porsche has perfected the balancing act between having a back catalog of products that continue to be in demand, whilst still being able to create new products that pay homage to the old, but improve upon them as well and (mostly) drive brand equity forward.

anoop

All of the German brands seem to be transitioning quite well. MB may be slightly late to the game and BMW stopped thinking about EVs, but now both seem to be addressing their respective issues and will make the transition much better than the American, other European brands, and even Japanese brands. The Koreans will be the ones that build the Honda/Toyota-like affordable EVs. I don't think the Japanese brands will make the transition successfully. And I think if the EV regulation moves fast, we are likely to see Chinese brands here in the US.

SebringSilver

I just bought another GV70 to go with the one I bought last month. Now I have a red one, and a black one, both with the blue interior. Yes, it’s that good.

Byer2021

In summary here is what happened, going back to the seventies of last century.
The student (Koreans) learned everything they needed to from the master teachers (Japanese) by manufacturing parts/components for them over a long period of time.
Then they decided one day, back in the eighties to do it all themselves. Of course like any beginner there were a lot of hurdles to cross. Along the way they decided they do need some outside help as in design and engineering. Knowing well that they will find closed doors and that this will piss off their masters, now their competition, they had to go elsewhere..
Long story short they went to the big three in Germany, but not as joint venture support, but to actually to actually poach their superstars.
So today you will find a lot of engineers and designers working for Hyundai and Kia all over the world.
How can this not be a winning formula, especially when you control practically the whole manufacturing process. And for example, if they have an infotainment problem they just go across the street and knock on Lg or Samsung door.

RickRDX

Why the GV70 would age worse than the RDX or NX or QX50? I don't think so. On the contrary the GV70 looks much like the Macan and the Porsche is almost unchanged for many years.
On the other hand the Koreans really took off after they hired a bunch of people from BMW, Audi and some other European companies. So maybe this is the key: hiring the right persons in right positions.

fiatlux

The Macan I also don't get, but cars like the Land Cruiser and G-Wagen do age well because people buy these not for the features (which become outdated fast), but for the rest of the car. Ditto for cars like the Wrangler, 911, and maybe the Defender. The risk the Koreans incur is by putting too many eggs into the tech/feature basket. The pro is that consumers do put a lot of weight on these things, but the con is that this area moves so fast that these can become outdated very quickly, and as such the rest of the car will feel dated if it doesn't have something evergreen to rely on.

RickRDX

Outdated? please tell me which new tech will be outdated soon. If I recall in time ABS and airbags were also new techs. All cars nowadays are full of techs, the only difference is some charge more than others for the same tech.

FactoryMatt

yet people are still buying new cars even though we've won the ABS battle. hm.

fiatlux

The 3D gauge cluster, the infotainment system, lane keep assist, ACC, high beam assist, color HUD, etc. All those things will no longer be features that feel modern and new as they trickle down to mainstream models or become better as time goes by. They do not have staying power; hence they become outdated. If poeple buy these cars for the features, then they'll just as likely sell/trade them as soon as newer and better features become available.

Look at the dual screen infotainment from the previous RDX/TLX/MDX. I'm sure they felt modern and new (ish) back when they were introduced 6 years ago, but today? The only person who wouldn't call it dated are fanboys and octagenarians. The little color TFT screens in the middle of the tach? That was cutting edge 10 years ago, but halfway through the decade they become stale as fully digital screens became a thing. Adaptive cruise control? Nothing special about that anymore; you can get them on plenty of mainstream cars costing less than $30K these days. And the list goes on.

RickRDX

I wouldn't call the dual-screen a new tech, the ACC, LKAS, Blind spot monitoring, reverse radar, 360 camera, AA, Apple Car play...are here to remain, just like the ABS. They become mainstream doesn't mean outdated. They will be outdated only when real autopilot becomes mainstream.

fiatlux

It’s outdated as a premium selling feature in the sense that it’s no longer new or novel. Once something even begins to become mainstream, it can no longer be relied on to be a luxury feature. That means a luxury car that no longer has luxury features needs to have something else to hang its hat on over the years. I’m not sure Genesis has found that something yet, which puts them at risk of becoming dated faster than cars that have.

SebringSilver

Just buy a new car when your current one gets old. How difficult is that?

EFR

You all speak far above my head in these matters....I just think Genesis has done a very good job with the GV70 and others in their lineup, looks (subjective) materials and build quality....time will tell whether Hyundai etc. can stand the test of time and competition....but they have come a long way. I remember the Yugo/Hyundai total pieces of crap back in the 80's(?). One is gone (I think) and the other is competing with a luxury/premium brand.

fiatlux

That’s what many luxury car buyers end up doing because 1) they can and 2) new cars will have the latest and greatest features. Hence why feature-rich cars (like Genesis but not limited to them) may not age as gracefully as time goes on.

hans471

Just buy a new car when you want to/can afford to. Find a car you love and go for it. You only live once so why not have what YOU want and not what some ad man / internet self proclaimed expert tells you to get. Everyone has different needs/wants. Do you research as to what car offers YOU what you feel is important. Read through these posts and see where people say things like they rejected an RDX because they didn't like the way the tail lights looked or they didn't like the touch pad, whatever. You can find similar posts on other car makes too. In the unlikely event you should get the proverbial "Lemon" you have Lemon Laws to bail you out. You have a new car warranty to fix problems at no cost to you.
Its your money and your car to live with.

anoop

The modern timeless look is what is in the Teslas.

My prediction -- we have reached peak tech in auto technology. From here on any advancement is likely to be about mass surveillance (sad). I do not think self-driving cars will happen. If you look at all the tech in cars today, it's mostly a buttoned up version of what was available 10 years ago.

Waetherman

I don’t believe in “peak tech.”*I think self driving cars will happen - maybe not as soon as some think, but they will happen. And there are lots of other hypothetical technologies yet to be implemented, many improvements to existing technologies, and technology we haven’t even yet conceived of.

*Unless of course civilization collapses, which is a very real possibility.

SebringSilver

Being the only one on this thread who has actually owned both the RDX and the GV70 (2 GV70s in fact), I can tell you the reason I ditched the RDX was not because its technology had become obsolete. It was underpowered, had a fussy transmission, rattled quite a bit, had a lot of cheap materials in its cabin, and had many deficiencies which though covered under warranty, made me think I was driving a Range Rover again. Its good looks and competent handling wasn’t enough to save it.

The GV70 on the other hand goes like stink when I want it to, has all the luxury I want, handles very well in street use, and looks absolutely stunning. The technology that comes with it, whether it be infotainment, driver assistance systems, or safety measures, were important but not the reason I bought the car. You could put the same tech in another car but if it still drives poorly, I wouldn’t buy it.

supafamous

If you're saying that the GV70 won't age as well because it's key selling features are it's technology/features I'd say you need to go drive one. Even my short 20 min drive was a "wow" experience regardless of the tech - the car is stellar. Unless that is you consider a smooth transmission, great fit and finish (WAY better than an Acura), a nice ride, nice styling etc to be things that don't age well.

Byer2021

One of the the things that was finally corrected on the 2022 model still keeps spinning in my mind and I just can’t get over it. Perhaps some of you can provide some logic or reasoning to this.
I am sure there other manufacturers that have had similar issues but because this is about the RDX here we are;
Mid 2018 Acura introduced the 3 Gen RDX. Excellent move but not perfect. There were issues to correct, recalls or TBS and they worked on that. Fine. However,

1. How in the world can you miss something as big as noise or sound insulation. These cars are tested on computers and in the real world with all the sophisticated instruments at your disposal.
2. So you missed it at the vey beginning. Ok. Noe customers and reviewers start complaining. No response from Acura for 2019, 2020 and 2021 model years.
3. This is absolutely something that could have and should have been fixed on the fly, a lot sooner and not waiting this long.

Maybe it’s just me and there is a simple explanation to this that I am missing here.
Thank you

fiatlux

What you described is the expectation of a luxury car. I’ve driven the Genesis cars and it’s not like it drives/rides better than a Mercedes, Lexus, Audi, BMW, etc. They’re all about the same. What differentiates it is the tech; it offers things you can’t even get on the competition no matter how much you want to pay. But once it loses that edge as the years go by, you lose what differentiates it from other cars. Things like good ride quality, smooth transmissions, etc. are things you should be expecting from a car in this class, so that’s not something that I would look like and think “yup, this is a timeless car”, especially since other newer cars can and will do those things just as well, or better.

FactoryMatt

I think Honda just doesn't like to make big (yes, you could argue its not that big) physical changes between MMCs. Rather than Continuous Improvement, they seem to hold things back and incorporate them all at once. Very different from a VWAG car, for example.

EFR

To JB's point...I seem to recall our 1994 Dodge Intrepid was someones COTY...maybe Car and Driver. Such an incredible piece of crap in every respect, it is the one reason why I will never buy a Dodge etc. vehicle again. The engine was garbage, the build quality was garbage, etc. The car at about 24,000 miles, felt like it had about 250,000 miles on it. One difference between it and a BMW 5 series we bought next was, the BMW at 100,000 plus miles felt like it was still practically brand new, such was the difference in build quality and the great inline 6 BMW makes. Yes, it's a lot more expensive, but...

FactoryMatt

finally checked out the GV70 in person. it's extremely impressive in alot of ways, but ultimately i'm still going RDX.

the interior really is top notch. its almost TOO nice. I like the utility and cockpit feel of the RDX, but the attention to detail and elegance of the GV70 is truly out of this world. It puts the Q5 to absolute shame and really is a nicer place to be than the X3. the Infotainment UI is like straight out of a BMW lol. its nice, but almost too complicated? idk, not that experienced with high-tech-content cars really.

i never realized its a longitudinal ("RWD based") layout. even the 4 banger. and the materials are pretty impressive. Extruded aluminum braces in the engine bay and even an aluminum steering rack lower shaft. i wish you could get the fixed piston calipers on the 4 banger, but alas.

ultimately, the car is just too long for us (113 WB versus 108 WB for RDX) while simultaneously offering less rear storage space. its a little too much of an SUV coupe in that way. i want short and boxy rather than long and chopped.

and the last thing that seals it (without driving it yet, admittedly) is that even Doug Demuro says the handling is a little sluggish, that you feel the weight transfer. Even compared to the X3, which IMO, is a very low bar.



soo, veryyyy nice car. Amazing execution. Juuust doesn't have the utility of the RDX or that 'feel' that you get with Honda's best products.

anoop

Did he test the 6-cylinder?

FactoryMatt

yes. are you saying that would make the handling worse? or is the suspension different?


another thing i noticed, the Korean/ROW build sheets for the GV70 allow alot for variation in build, MB style. e.g. you can get the ediff and sport pkg on everything. not so in the USA.

anoop

I think it depends on the packages so perhaps I should have asked whether he tested the sportiest setup.

FactoryMatt

yes, 21s with the brembros