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Im an engineer, and so is Ryan... Reverse Engineering is half the game really. We are always trying to figure out new ways to do things, and some times the competitor does something completely different than everyone else. Then we have to figure out why it worked better than any previous design, and how we can improve what is considered the "best."
Scientist don't make anything.. they discover things, then engineers use those discoveries to do things better, faster and cheaper than before.
This is why the TYPE-S pictures don't show the downpipe it's top secret LOL, I was looking at his intercooler and they ran the pipes under the frame and the intercooler is very low to the ground
Im an engineer, and so is Ryan... Reverse Engineering is half the game really. We are always trying to figure out new ways to do things, and some times the competitor does something completely different than everyone else. Then we have to figure out why it worked better than any previous design, and how we can improve what is considered the "best."
Scientist don't make anything.. they discover things, then engineers use those discoveries to do things better, faster and cheaper than before.
Call me biased because I'm an engineer as well, but this is true. Although, there is a fine line between what is considered okay and what is not when talking about reverse engineering. Obviously the company who owns the product being reverse engineered wouldn't approve of this, but it's done anyway; you have no real control. This is partly why patents are in place; to protect the intellectual property of those who came up with it first, for X number of years.
Of course like Joe said, it's also about figuring out what they did and why/not it worked well. This doesn't mean you have to copy their design. You can make notes on how you could perhaps improve upon it, and if you're careful, you're not exactly "copying" anything in that regard. When done right, it's more like doing research and even finding inspiration.
If reverse engineering doesn't exist, you might as well leave 4WD to the first company who invented it, or internal combustion engines for that matter to the first guys who ever made one. I enjoy diversity. It helps keep things interesting and provide incentive for people to constantly improve their products. No one wants to reinvent the wheel for no reason.
Im an engineer, and so is Ryan... Reverse Engineering is half the game really. We are always trying to figure out new ways to do things, and some times the competitor does something completely different than everyone else. Then we have to figure out why it worked better than any previous design, and how we can improve what is considered the "best."
Scientist don't make anything.. they discover things, then engineers use those discoveries to do things better, faster and cheaper than before.
I get that, I engineer things to allow people to use the internet.
Blatant RE I have issue with. Improving something that was RE, I'm fine with. I come in after other people and improve their system retro actively quite often - which involves understanding why someone did something so wrong....
Hey jomo, sorry for asking questions but not having any useful input of my own. I hope you can understand though, since your build is very interesting!
Pardon my ignorance in any of these questions
-Is this a Comptech/CT-Engineering SC (twin scroll) or a centrifugal unit?
-Did you have to make any big modifications to make it work (like delete A/C, relocate stuff in the bay, etc.)?
Hope you work out your issues!
- It is a CT-E roots style supercharger (not the centrifugal type that looks like a turbo). It is the MP62 or M62 type SC that CT-E has on their website. It is very similar to the Jackson Racing supercharger that was available to the K20s (civic Si and RSX). See pic below.
- I had to make some mods that I think wouldn't be necessary for everybody because I used the kit that was made for the 06-11 Civic Si. I had to trim the stock TSX bracket that holds the upper most pulley (idler pulley) in order to screw in one of the manifold bolts. I had to modify the peanut shaped coolant port on the intake manifold to a circular shape so coolant doesn't leak. This is a common mod that '12 Civic Si owners do to use the RBC intake manifold from the 06-11 Si. I had to wire in the 06-11 Si clips because the TSX clips are magically different and the manifold I have only fits K20 (06-11 Si or RSX) injectors or K24 (04-08TSX or k24A4) type injectors, which are much thinner than the 2009+ TSX / 2012+ Civic Si injectors. A simple tie strap holds the AC line closer to the side of the engine bay to ensure it doesn't touch the supercharger pulley while driving. My manifold support bracket didn't fit either because the TSX has a huge bulky mount in the way but I rigged it up with some washers and a much longer bolt so it could still support the manifold. This is simply a metal bracket that connects from the front of the I take manifold to the block to support the extra weight of the supercharger. Lastly, I had to use a shorter belt because the tensioner pulley setup that CT-E makes for the Civic Si doesn't fit on the TSX. I simply removed the idler and used a shorter custom sized belt from Napa.
However, to answer your question, if you buy the TSX kit from CT-E, you shouldn't have any of those issues. It appears to be a direct plug and play. It doesn't require any major mods- simply remove your current intake manifold, replace it with a manifold that can hold a supercharger on top, bolt it all together, and then get a belt to fit around your supercharger pulley. Of course you'll need Hondata to handle the boost though and use the bigger injectors they provide.
Anybody know of any colder spark plugs that will fit our car? I'm getting along knock, on the Flashpro and I can actually hear it at low load. I asked Napa and they couldn't find anything, just the iridiums that are made for the car: ILZKR7B-11S. Joeboe, you mentioned something about Evo plugs? Any input appreciated!
Yeah to clarify, I wasn't getting knock at idle, only when accelerating. But like a lot.. 300 knocks in cylinder one in like 2min.
The ct map was optimized for for 780cc injectors, no aftercooler core, and stock spark plugs. I can confirm what Utah said, we are all running the same spark plugs.
Did you have problems with your manifold core not having large enough holes form he bolts? or was that just a problem for me?
You asked about the pump.. It's so lights weight and the tuning is so rigid there was no need to secure it to anything, and it sits behind the bumper so it has protection from hitting anything. We're my pictures helpful in mounting the aftercooler up front?
Side note.. You're gunna need a hondata 5bar MAP sensor. I assume your civic already had one, but you didn't mention it.
Yeah to clarify, I wasn't getting knock at idle, only when accelerating. But like a lot.. 300 knocks in cylinder one in like 2min.
The ct map was optimized for for 780cc injectors, no aftercooler core, and stock spark plugs. I can confirm what Utah said, we are all running the same spark plugs.
Did you have problems with your manifold core not having large enough holes form he bolts? or was that just a problem for me?
You asked about the pump.. It's so lights weight and the tuning is so rigid there was no need to secure it to anything, and it sits behind the bumper so it has protection from hitting anything. We're my pictures helpful in mounting the aftercooler up front?
Side note.. You're gunna need a hondata 5bar MAP sensor. I assume your civic already had one, but you didn't mention it.
Utah/joeboe, thanks for spark plug info. placing my order now...
Ok so that crazy amount of knock you're talking about during acceleration is exactly what I'm getting. Trying to get to the bottom of this. Do you think Aftercooler core could play a role? Injector size was already adjusted in Flashpro and I assumed that would only become a factor when it comes to maxing out injectors, not at lower loads/daily driving... Very frustrating to be getting so much knock at low load.
No problems with the Mercracing Aftercooler core. Fitment was perfect. Mine was the latest batch just finished this past month, so he may have had that issue addressed by now. Yes, your pictures helped with installing the heat exchanger. I didn't finish the install but I mocked everything up and using similar brackets and bolt holes. Did you ever find a pump signal wire somewhere outside? I dont want to run a wire thru the firewall if possible.
My 4 bar died so I'm back to stock for now. Thanks for reminding me. Going to order that now...
Aww good, I actually made a difference in the tuning community!
Upload a video of the knock you hear. I have a few videos at idle that seem really loud for just idle, but I have a feeling I need to adjust my valves. I haven't done that for the life of the car (111K miles)... damn I just realized I have put nearly 13K miles on the supercharger!
Idk what your tuning experience is, but I would honestly let Vit handle the knock issue and tuning. I really wouldn't be discouraged by how much knock you are getting, it's all pretty much phantom.
Unfortunately there is no "Switched Power" in the engine bay, the only option is to run it to the fuse box under the dash. If I recall correctly it was fuse #2 which is for power seats. I can show you how I ran the wire without going through the firewall, albeit it wasn't my favorite option, it works well, and isn't too much of an eye sore.
The below Youtube link is the car idling. It did not sound like this before the supercharger install. People have told me that I need to adjust valves but when I removed it from my Civic, the noise disappeared. So, I am convinced it is the sound of my supercharger. In regards to knock, this is not the sound I am referring to.
The below link is knock while driving and if you listen closely, you may be able to hear it. I can see the Hondata knock sensor go crazy on the computer but at the same time, I'll hear short little spurts of the actual audible knock.
Once I get the Aftercooler installed, I will get the etune from Vittuned. In the meantime, Ill continue to poke around. I did find that the TSX SC basemap has some individual cylinder ignition retard whereas the K20Z3 basemap does not. Didn't fix the problem though, still knocks. I checked my plugs and the metal tips and ceramic center are still intact but there is a new fresh layer of ashy white covering the entire top portion of the plug to include the metal tips and insulator. Ideas?
Yes, your thread really did help me out for my install. I really wanted to go with the Full Race kit or the RV6 kit, but who knows when that will finish so I settled for the blower. If you get a chance, pls show me how you routed your Aftercooler pump switch. Thanks.
Mine idles exactly like that as well.. I couldn't really hear the knock on the video though.
Ashy is pretty normal, black is pretty normal.. white specs that look like metal has attached to the plugs is obviously not normal.
I'll try to post some pics of how I ran the wires/relay tonight. I also have pics of my plugs that I pulled a couple weeks ago. Should give you something to compare too, although I have ran a lot more miles than you have.
btw.. where are you located? It's cool that someone else is finally taking on this project. For a while I was going at it all alone, so every problem seem to take me twice as long to fix because I had to consult the civic guys then adapt the answer for my tsx.
I don't want to insult anyone but just in case anyone was thinking it's real knock at idle, it's impossible. Probably the blower itself or something else on the engine making the noise and setting off the knock sensor.
The highest I've seen is 385whp on E85 with a Jackson supercharger (centrifugal, non roots style). They also have been blowing up on too high of boost.
The highest I've seen is 385whp on E85 with a Jackson supercharger (centrifugal, non roots style). They also have been blowing up on too high of boost.
Oh okay I was just reading a thread on 9thgen and they are claiming either close or a little over. I had a 8th gen that was getting 350 whp with the c/t with just a smaller pulley and bigger injectors. No aftercooler and a CAI. Tunned by Vit of course. And I believe I was at around 9-10 psi.
I was hoping to get at least the same south of the TSX. I mean I know the 8th has a K20 not a K24. Maybe different compression or something ?
Damn I can't edit yet so I have to make a new post. I am just trying to gather info because I am very interested in going stage 2 soon after I get the stage 1 runner by Vit on the 27th.
I know there is a ton more things out now for the kit then back in 2009 that you can do to it and buy to get more out of it. But I also don't want to ruin the motor or blower by over doing it.
Did you upgrade your fuel pump with your set up ? Or mess with the fuel pressure regulator like I had to do for the 8th gen ?
Thanks for all the info you give and have given already !
The first post in that thread is very informative. When you start decreasing pulley size you're gunna want to start thinking about aftercooler setups.
Anything is possible, just how much money do you wanna spend? I have about $6k in supercharger parts, and my goal was to get 300+ whp on my daily setup.
-Spec Stage 2 clutch +Civic flywheel
-780CC supplied injectors
-1 step colder plugs
-2.95" pulley
-Merc Racing aftercooler
-catless exhaust
-boost+Wideband gauges
-Hondata FP
VIT tuned me conservativtely as per my request and I'm really happy with it.
Now.. If I was building a #racecar. This is personally what I would do..
-Send my Eaton blower +manifold to be ported and polished
-upgrade to forged rods/pistons/valves
-upgrade to 1000CC injectors
-trade in my merc cooler for Vit tuned cooler
-upgrade my fuel pump to Deatsch Werks
-install venom snout cooler
-install civic Limited Slip differential
-install meth injection system
-fabricate front mount intercooler sprayer (or cryO2, I never decided)
-Full 3" catless exhaust
-Hondata Traction Control
-VIT boost by gear
The first post in that thread is very informative. When you start decreasing pulley size you're gunna want to start thinking about aftercooler setups.
Anything is possible, just how much money do you wanna spend? I have about $6k in supercharger parts, and my goal was to get 300+ whp on my daily setup.
-Spec Stage 2 clutch +Civic flywheel
-780CC supplied injectors
-1 step colder plugs
-2.95" pulley
-Merc Racing aftercooler
-catless exhaust
-boost+Wideband gauges
-Hondata FP
VIT tuned me conservativtely as per my request and I'm really happy with it.
Now.. If I was building a #racecar. This is personally what I would do..
-Send my Eaton blower +manifold to be ported and polished
-upgrade to forged rods/pistons/valves
-upgrade to 1000CC injectors
-trade in my merc cooler for Vit tuned cooler
-upgrade my fuel pump to Deatsch Werks
-install venom snout cooler
-install civic Limited Slip differential
-install meth injection system
-fabricate front mount intercooler sprayer (or cryO2, I never decided)
-Full 3" catless exhaust
-Hondata Traction Control
-VIT boost by gear
But ya know... that's just me.
I totally agree ! And yeah lots more things to buy and do with the kit then there was 6 years ago when I had my first one.
Yeah that's what I was thinking to, I am just running a base map Vit tweeked to work with the different injectors. So I have not really been able to get on it but it is faster already and I love the sound. So it can only get better with a full dyno tune.
Yeah you're gunna love it. Stage 2 is awesome! The boost is freakin' addicting, gets to 100mph on the highway real quick. Tell Vit I said wassup. He finished me up only a couple weeks ago.
Yeah you're gunna love it. Stage 2 is awesome! The boost is freakin' addicting, gets to 100mph on the highway real quick. Tell Vit I said wassup. He finished me up only a couple weeks ago.
I am making the 5hr drive to do it in person like I did last time before he had his shop. And I will start to collect parts for a stage 2 and possible make a mother trip back down next year for retune since I will be buying his after cooler
01-20-2015, 09:35 PM
