Just a question here... seems like on these boards the reaction for longtime Acura fans is one of disappointment at what these 'new models' looks like (TSX and RL) but maybe Acura's thinking is to capture new clients more than to retain existing ones? What I mean by that is reaction here to the 09 RL is not good. Reaction to the 09 TSX also has its fair share of detractors. But if you are new to Acura maybe you think the TSX is pretty awesome (not comparing the engine to the old one) and the same with the RL.

Do you think so or am I just being an optimist?

 

I thought about that - but if the RL isn't selling to begin with and virtually all of the current owners hate it and won't buy the new one, can Acura pull in twice as many new owners to make up for the ones they are losing? It's not smart business - new customer acquisition costs (marketing, promotion, etc.) are much higher than the costs associated in retaining existing customers. Colliver and the gang must be convinced they are going to sell twice as many with this "great" new design.

 

You really think current RL owners 'hate it'? Obviously we get a biased picture from this board but I would disagree just because Acura is a great product and I love mine.

 

I asked a couple of unbiased owners actually, my car was in for servicing, and i saw a few people looking at the 08 in the show room, as well as someone on the street and my uncle...

Now i know they are unbiased, because the own different cars, they told me no preference, and sure i guess i could be wrong, but say the sample of three i had, i figured they'd say something different. They have no loyalty to a brand, they basically are going for bang for the buck as well as style... (it seems unbiased enough..for now.) (Yes. yes..i know, everyone ALWAYS has a bias...but right now, this is as good as i can do in Ottawa with like only 4 RL's in town. hah.)


They all said the same thing, the exterior of the new one (i had put a few pictures on my blackberry) isn't as good as the old one (the one they have or were looking at), although they want to see it in person, and personally after the picture, they thought it shouldn't be worth as much, however with the new features in the cabin, they said it might actually be worth the extra cash.


So this is possible, if there are enough new features, people will tend to overlook liek the grill. we may hate it, but i'm sure most people when buying a car, are very indifferent to it.

My father didn't like it but when i told him the features, (he has had his business 20 years, and i am now taking over) and he said that the exterior packing may not look great, but the features easily make up for it...but priced improperly and it's a dud.

 

My opinion is the 09 RL is offensive enough to repel the majority of potential newcomers to Acura. Only time will tell but I feel confident in saying Acura will regret releasing this design.

 

Business School 101


It is 10 times more costly to obtain a new customer compared to keeping an existing customer.

 

Poorly worded on my part. I meant that current owmers seem to hate the 09 model by and large. I love my 06 RL - probably whu I had such high hopes for the 09 and feel so disappointed by it.

 

Agree.

Any company that intentionally rejects existing clients in hopes to attract new clients deserves to fail.

What I am reading is appears that the reaction to the RL MMC is the vast majority, not just Acura loyalists.

 

I wouldn't say I "hate" the new model. I think it's a good incremental upgrade with the exception of that particular implementation of the "power plenum" grille.

Will it attract new customers to Acura? We'll see in May.

 

I know what it says, but I keep seeing a 'Power Phlegm' grille.

 

Ford is offering a $1000 rebate to buyers who have someone in their household who does NOT drive a Ford. How do you think Ford loyalists feel about this? I'd say they are upset.

 

Well, i personally dont think the new features will sell the car, because as i said before, these features will be available in other cars in few months (weather forecast), then Acura is back to the same hole.

Had the 2005 RL has all these features, it might have sold well considering the hype the car had when it was released.
If Acura target is selling when the car is released then they are on spot, but what about 6 months after???
I alike other Acura owners was expecting more, and honestly nothing is thrilling about this car. The worst part is fuel consumption with the new 3.7L, has anyone driven the MDX?
I had a 2008 MDX for a month, and i hated the fuel consumption.

 

I'm beginning to agree with you and with SpicyMikey on this. The '09 isn't a total catastrophic disaster for Acura ... it's just not a really positive step forward, and it's not what the bulk of the people on this board expected and wanted.

Given that the '05 - '08 models didn't exactly set the world on fire sales-wise, I figure this MMC will sell about the same - at least for the first year. Yeah, it will repel some of the old-school faithful, but others will ignore the grille and buy the car for its content and value.

Unfortunately, that means it will languish in the dealers' showrooms, continue to be heavily discounted, and do nothing to "advance" the cause for the RL as an entity.

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Think about this ... What if Honda is killing the RL, and this is how it ends? Since it's become a tarnished model, I wouldn't be too surprised if Honda is just buying time for it with this MMC, and plans to replace it in late 2010 or 2011 with a whole new car with a new name. (And I wouldn't bank on "Legend", since that's already an established nameplate that's pretty successful elsewhere in the world. I'd bet on a whole new name exclusive to the North American market.)

So, I figure on a larger car with this new name, to compete better with Infiniti M's and Lexus LS's and maybe even M-B S-classes and BMW 7's. The '09-style RL will be allowed to quietly sell out and die a natural death for the next couple of years, while the new flagship gets ready to sail on in its place.

Face it - as great a car as it is, the RL hasn't lived up to Honda expectations and there doesn't seem to be anything they can do to pull it out. So if you're Honda, and you don't have the new flagship ready yet, you put lipstick on the RL and push it back out on the stage for a couple more years to fill the void. Then you let it fade off into the sunset while all the attention is focused on the new car.

Don't rule this out as a possibility .....

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Yep, I owned one for 6 months. And while the 3.7 is a nice engine, it IS thirsty - at least in the MDX. I managed to get about 16-17 mpg in mixed city driving, and the best I could muster on the highway was maybe 23-ish on a really good day. Usually more like 21-ish.

The MDX is undoubtedly a boxier design and has a worse coefficient of drag, but it doesn't really weigh significantly more than the RL. I think it's safe to say the 3.7 will get a good 1-2 mpg worse mileage in the RL than the 3.5-liter. That's a pretty hefty price to pay for 10hp and a few more ft-lbs. of torque.

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I'm worried about the RL's fuel economy too. However, it is not true that weight difference isn't signficant. The RL weighs about 4,000 pounds, the MDX weights about 4,500. To put that in perspective, the difference between the MDX and RL is actually slightly greater than the difference between the RL and TL (which weights 3,600).

 

Quite honestly, there is absolutely nothing about the 09 RL that would convince most current RL owners to trade up. My family has an 05 RL now and nobody is interested in the 09, to say the least.

Additionally, why spend all the money to change the car and yet completely alienate most current buyers. The smart thing to do would have been to see what the current buyers wanted, offer them that and mix in some elements that would attract new buyers. Doing that would have at least guaranteed them a portion of their existing customer base.

 

I don't think the redo was geared for current RL owners. It was to try to bring people in who didn't buy the first version of the 2nd gen RL.

I don't think Acura can make another US Legend.

 

If you put two big guys in your RL, it now weighs as much as an MDX. So to me, 500 lbs isn't terribly significant. Now, if you compare the TL to the MDX, there's a significant difference.

I guess it's all in your perspective, but I wouldn't expect to lose 5 or 6mpg on the highway just because I had another big guy in the car with me.

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In some ways, we are splitting hairs, because I have to admit I agree with you completely (which is not surprising because I almost always agree with your posts). My guess is that most who consider vehicles like the RL can easily afford the fuel. But, that doesn't mean we enjoy giving our hard earned cash to the oil companies and there also larger social responsibility issues. So, I personally think a vehicle getting lousy MPG, even in the RL's class, is going to increasingly become a hard sell.

That said, the difference in weight between the MDX and the RL exceeds the difference between the RL and TL/Accord. In fact, the MDX - RL difference is not a whole lot bigger than RL - TSX. So, if you are going to argue that there is no real difference in weight between a MDX and RL, then we also have to say there is no real difference between an RL and TSX. And, most of us would not say that vehicles like the TL, USDM Accord, and JDM Accord are not unusally heavy.

The larger point, though, is that the MDX is 500 pounds heavier than the RL, and it is also less aerodynamic. So, I don't think you'll see MPG in the RL that is anywhere near as bad as the MDX.

As for your "Put two guys in the RL and it weighs as much as an MDX." Well, put two guys in the TL and it weighs MORE than an RL. So, by your analogy, the RL and TL are the same weight.

 

LOL. No, Darth, we're not really disagreeing.

I pointed out in my original post that the MDX is less aerodynamic, and I was just saying that I expect the new RL to get 1-2 mpg less than the current one because of the different engine.

The part about there not being a huge weight differential was just by way of trying to compare the how two vehicles would fare with the same powerplant.

I guess I wasn't clear.

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