ellover009

How come the new RL is not selling that well? What would you like to see changed?
http://www.forbes.com/2007/01/26/bes...ml&partner=rss
http://www.forbes.com/home/2007/01/2...s_slide_2.html

I think the RL is a nice and balanced vehicle, I myself own a 1997 model but I am waiting for the right time to buy into a newer model, depreciation value is not too kind to this model of Acura and can mean that I will be able to pick one up aggressively priced at the right time.
I have tried the newer RL at the dealership for a short test drive and I will say it is a nice update but they are things they could have changed to make this car more competitive.

Trunk size could have been deeper, I had a 1990 celica in the past, it had a deep trunk which meant a lot of things could be accommodated easier, so the trunk might have not needed to be larger but deeper.

I tried the 2005 model, the shifters paddles should be fixed and not rotate with the wheel, this can disorient you when you are turning the wheel the paddle is not always in same place.

Honda needs to build a V8 and have a V8 trim even if 80% of those will be sold in V6 trims, I know I like the V6 but it's not fun when the Lexus LS430-460 V8 gets the same mileage as your V6 engine. Honda could expand a lot if they would build something larger than a V6

Offer two size trims of the RL, normal and extended size, the new RL seems a little smaller than the old one, it's two similar in size to the TL, they should have an additional slightly longer base model. I am 6'1 and I had to bend my leg a little on the new RL, even on the old one.

Am I the only one that finds that the TL stands out more than the RL when parked? I had a loaner TL when I had my RL serviced, i certainly got a lot more attention on the TL (this is common in all brands the elite models is usually a little neutral).

Ditch Bose, sorry guys I like the Bose system but in some other vehicles the bass is a little better, I don't find Bose helping much. The mark levinson system on the Lexus sounds really nice, people in the audio world know Bose is a little overrated.

Styling, they nailed the style in the front, I love it, on the rear it's a little odd the rear lights, makes it look a little civic ish.

I for myself am going to hold on a little longer to my 1997 RL, I will buy a newer redesigned model when it becomes a little more affordable. The other day I was stuck on the snow, it made me think how having awd would have helped me get out. Some of my friends tried to convince me to get a SUV but to me it's a little unpractical for my needs, I prefer cars over SUV, it does not fit in with my personality.
I looked at a few vehicles including some lexus and the infinity and still even then there was a charm about the RL that makes it fit with my personality. I hear that Honda is talking about introducing diesel engines in their US vehicles sometime around 2009, they are also talking about making larger engines, it would be interesting to see a diesel powered RL, great mileage and the diesel have gotten as fast as the gas counterparts, and the torque would be awesome.

So guys what would you like to see changed on the new RL and what do you think about their slow sales figures?

VOdoc

Re: slow sales, I think the biggest factor is marketing--both in terms of Acura's lukewarm support of the RL and in terms of American Honda's lukewarm positioning of Acura in the marketplace. To wit--the previous Lexus LS 430 was an uninspiring boat, yet Toyota was able to sell plenty by convincing people it was more upscale than a Benz. The current LS 460 looks very much like a Camry yet they are generating all sorts of interest due to canny marketing. Acura needs to be marketed as cooler than a Beemer, safer than a Volvo, more cost-effective than a Lexus, more fun than a Mercedes and more reliable than an Audi. All of which are true or at least arguable.

Re: desired upgrades for the next generation, I'd say:

1. Slightly edgier exterior styling with a more pronounced wedge shape to differentiate from the teardrop-shaped Infinitis. Simpler front grille like TL or JDM Legend. Forget that hideous concept car. That is waaaay over the top.
2. A little more kick in the torque/HP department. Perhaps a hybrid version? Definitely not a V-8, that is so pre-global warming.
3. Crisper handling, fatter steering wheel and ditch the paddle shifters. Hand-operated parking brake would reduce any accusations of resemblance to a Buick.
4. Six-speed tranny for sure.
5. Stylin' wheels and 18" rubber standard.
6. Love the ACC/CMBS, all RLs should have those.
7. The nav could be slightly improved with 3-D graphics and automatic re-routing around traffic jams.
8. Some sort of Wi-fi or Wi-Max connection with Bluetooth that can interact securely with smartphones, PDAs, laptops and other modern necessities.
9. Perhaps a version with longer whalebase (uh, wheelbase) for those who like the limo thing.

Whatever the improvements, they would need to be cost-effective. I personally would not want to see the list price creep much higher, as ~$40K + TTL is as high as I'll ever go for any car--it's a depreciating asset. (I could afford more...but I have way better things to do with my money. Might have to travel less, have fewer toys, and work to a ripe old age. Yuk.)

10. The single most important improvement: name it what it is--the 5G Acura Legend.

ellover009

Your right about the steering wheel, I still find that I like the feeling better of my old celica, it was larger, you could grip it well meaty and it felt solid on the inside not as hollow.

Power department, it doesen't really feel like 300HP, i think it could be remedied easily without having to loose too much on the fuel efficiency, I think having a diesel model could be spot on, the torque it calls. Could they please make it faster, somewhere in the low 6's for acceleration, Hybrid might not work since it's a large add on cost and when they hybrid engine fails it cost quite a bit to fix out of warantee since not all mechanics are trained on this technology.

The grill is a bit odd but it's not bad, I think it's the rear that feels a little out of place, a little too rounded.

And yes a normal e-brake would be nice.

How about A-spec option and being able to also install the tech pax and cmbs package.

The built in fog lights on the body looks stupid unless it's the A-spec model, they should place with fog light placement or some special space for it not built into the frame.

jhr3uva90

I wonder if Porche drivers spend as much time bitching as we do because the Boxster's sales are down? I'm sure those who drive the BMW 6-Series are crying tears of pain because the masses aren't buying big coupes.

Most of the car market is struggling, especially the luxury brands. Ford is probably trying to find a secret way to unload Jaguar and Lincoln. Daimler Chrysler isn't even being secretive about trying to drop Chrysler before it sinks the company. Comparatively, Acura is doing well. However, Acura does NOT have the brand recognition or brand loyalty that BMW, Mercedes, and Caddy have, nor does it have as much history. That's why the ever-shrinking numbers of people who can afford to spend over $45K on a car will not spend it on an Acura. Apparently, those same people are starting to balk at Lexus as well, considering that their best selling vehicle is a glorified Camry station wagon. That's just how it goes. The RL isn't the problem so much as the brand is the problem and the overall market is the problem.

kirbyflorida

Acura and Honda have brand loyalty from me and me 2 children who drive, we have 5 Honda's and Acura's between us and find it hard to buy anything else.

lumpulus

Kirby has it right....Acura/Honda enjoys fierce brand loyalty...I am on my 8th Acura/Honda since 1989, and my G/F also has had A/Hs since I've known her(1990)

If they can figure out how to get new people in they'd be set.

GoHawks

I am on my third Acura, as is my brother and my mom has one.

Rob L

Umm the LS430 sold well because it had killer luxury and reliability...you know, that is WHY PEOPLE BUY THESE CARS. Oh and it WAS more upscale than a Benz.

As for the current LS460 looking very much like the Camry...I see some say this and wonder if they need their eyes checked. The similarities between the two are that they have 4 wheels and doors and tailights and headlights and are both cars. To say they look alike is to say Kate Beckinsale looks very much like Naomi Watts, meaning they don't aside from both being females. I think both the Camry and LS460 look good but they don't look alike just like I think Kate and Naomi look good but not alike.

Oh and the reason they are getting interest in the LS460 is probably because it is the most luxurious and technologically advanced "real" production car (maybach and Bentleys excluded) out there. Show me another luxury car that is more advanced than the LS460.

See, the problem with Acura fans is they have no clue why people buy luxury cars and think it is based on looks or handling when it is usually because of the LUXURY or the prestige/name. People at car forums need to clue in that they aren't the majority and think in the mind of most buyers.

The RL is not selling well simply because it is an Acura. If it was under any of the big name luxo brands it'd be selling very well.

As an RL owner I for one don't care if it is selling well as I like it being unique. However, if I had the cash I'd trade it in a heartbeat for the new LS460 L if/when they put AWD on that car because there the new LS looks like it easily trumps the RL in terms of luxury.

GoHawks

I pretty much agree with every pount you make, especially the bolded part.

I think the new LS is stunning, and I really like the new L Finess styling theme that you see run through the IS, GS, and now the LS. I came very close to buying the GS, but the RL won me over in the end.

jhr3uva90

Yes, there is brand loyalty among Honda and Acura fans, but that loyalty stops at around $44K. Generally, people who can afford more expensive cars think of Acura the way one might think of Volvo or Saab. Instead most people who can afford cars over a certain price point are going to gravitate to the big 4 brands, regardless of the merits of the car. There are affluent people who know their professions, but they are neither technophiles or car enthusiasts. They just buy the brand.

jhr3uva90

I agree with GoHawks. The new LS is stunning! However, it saddens me that Honda has not created a similar car.

neuronbob

ellover009, welcome to Acurazine!

With that said, I have to say....oh man, not again.

We have multiple threads addressing the multiple issues with the RL, and as far as I'm concerned, we are . But that's just my opinion.

You may want to search through just the last 30 days as this is a frequently discussed topic.

Oh, and I'm also a 8-time Honda/Acura (includes three Acuras) owner.

kirbyflorida

We have had over 14 Honda/Acuras, lost count at 14, that is for me, wife, son, daughter.

NavyDoc333

I'm glad someone finally brought Volvo and Saab up... I was just thinking the same thing. I wonder if the people in the Volvo forum are saddened that the S80 (A $50K Vovlo) isn't spoken in the same breath as MB/BMW/Lexus.

I will admit that when I was looking at the 30K range cars... I thought, "I can't believe they expect me to pay that much for a 9-3 when I could get a C-Class"

I think a lot of people who can afford a 50K car grew up seeing a Mercedes and saying, "Boy I wish I could afford one of those". All of a sudden.. they can afford one...and get one". Not as many grow up thinking, Man I wish I had a Volvo!

I'll even admit that, in being a life long car enthusiast, I STILL see a BMW 5-series in a parking lot and think, damn that's nice... wish I had one of those. BUT... I am also pragmatic, and my mind over-rules my heart...and I know deep down, the Acura is a smarter decision (for me).

Same reason I married my wife... she's beautiful, smart, loyal, and does everything well. I didn't marry the stripper I dated in college. Although I still like to look and think, "damn that would have been fun"

lland

My RL is my third Honda/Acura - One Accord, one MDX, and the RL. My brother had a Legend, prior generation RL, and has an MDX, CRV (son's), and Civic (daughter's)...he also has an M35x. My dad is a Toyota fan.

I traded in a Volvo for my RL. All I can say about the Volvo is never again!

LL

jhr3uva90

Well-written and very funny!

ellover009

Odd thing is how I ended up with the RL, I was a Toyota man, I love their vehicles but there was nothing that they offered at the moment that I liked and I needed 4 doors. I had a 1990 Celica, it had the really long doors and the seats rolled way back I am 6'2 so that was my most comfortable vehicle to date, it was my first car, no A/C, not Cassette player no power anything, I blew the transmission a few days after a snow storm, had a used one installed worked perfect but it never felt the same, as if I lost a friend.
The Avalon and the Camry's styling back then did not appeal too much and a rule of thumb is to always opt for the higher end counterparts. Toyota is Lexus, Honda is Acura and Nissan is Infinity. Why? well most of their normal range models aka Camry, Accord and Maxima are among the most stolen vehicles on insurance company report, this means you pay more in your insurance because it is a hot vehicle. Lexus was a little overpriced at the time it, I was never much of a infinity man so I looked at Acura and looked through the models and the TL appealed to me, then my friend told me the RL is their higher end model and you should look into it. The RL looked a little questionable in the picture but it's one of those car that have low profile and you acquire a taste for it over time. So I did more research on the car and eventually fell in love with it.
Looked around and eventually landed a 1997 RL, it is a really nice car. I broke a wheel speed sensor a year after buying it, took it to the dealership and they did that plus some recalls which meant some things replaced for free and they let me use a 2006 TL as a loaner (loved the xm comedy station and the blue lights were clear). Reason I could not fix the wheel speed sensor at the local shop is that it would not register on the computer, took it to a few places they did a computer reading for free, it was one of those dealership only things. I did the water pump, timing belt and sway bar links and ball joints, spent a total of $600 on parts and labor, the dealership wanted only 1k for the timing belt. Then I got new tires and reline on the car, now the rear right window regulator failed and the steering wheel column will go up and down but not front and back, it used to work (the car is 10yrs old now things eventually need to be replaced I am around 115k miles).

I really want one of the newer RL's, It fits with my personality, all I need now is wait for the right time to invest in a new vehicle, I plan to keep mine for a while, I live in Mass, we get at least 1-2 big snow storms, I seemed to manage in the past so I plan to keep my 97 RL as long as I can unless a briefcase full of money falls in my lap. I don't belief in loans unless it's for education, I don't like to spend money that I don't have yet, then let the dealership and the loan company rip me off. Down payment is usually how they get a little bonus for them selfs, then the loan agent gives them a cut, then they get another cut from the factory markup, and the biggest mistake is if you trade in unless your car is hard to sell or you need to get rid of it fast. I work hard for my money I don't plan on letting them abuse me.

How many of you would like to see or opt for a diesel RL?

CL6

New for 08: The RL Harrison Bergeron Limited Edition!

ellover009

New for 2008 the Legend Kaiser autobahn edition, accelerates 0-60 in 6 seconds flat, comes with Brembo pads and has an extra wide cup holders for when you go to the beer fest in deutschland. Mug cooler is only available where it is not prohibited by law.

VOdoc

You're proving my point. Marketing is the issue...that is, targeting a particular segment of consumers, creating the perception of exceptional desirability among that group and driving the message home consistently.

Is a Toyota inherently more desirable than a Honda? No, they're about equal. But due to clever media brainwashing, many if not most adults would say that a Lexus is inherently much more desirable than an Acura. (Dude...it's a Toyota!!)

Thus the slow sales of an otherwise superb and well-priced vehicle.

P.S. I took a close look at the two LS460s in my office parking garage today. Really nice Camries with fat tires. Properly equipped, I believe they sell for $20-25K more than the RL. They sure don't look it. Verrrry Japanese looking, and somewhat luxurious in appearance. My RL is prettier. Maybe I'm missing something?

ellover009

Found something interesting, the drift king is pushing the Acura RL to the max, in japan they call it the Honda Legend still, here's the video it's in Japanese does anyone know his comment on the RL? looks impressive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBtgE...e=user&search=
The RL is in the end of the video.

bmerton

+1
The OP talks as if slower/lower sales is a BAD thing. I LIKE the fact that I hardly ever see another RL on the road.

Even though there are other, better reasons for driving one of my other cars, a Toyota MR2 Spyder, one of the best is that it isn't a Miata. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Miata in this town. It's cool to be different.

Are there drawbacks to this? Sure. There is less aftermarket support...and that can be a pain with a performance vehicle, but I feel less need to modify my RL and I tend not to have the desire to drop it, do engine mods, tweak the suspension, etc, as it is a great luxury car just the way it is and NOT a car that invites/needs extensive modding like a Civic.

wstr75

I'm happy with my RL, but then again I'm an older semi-technogeek, long-time Mac owner who's paid for a lot of car repairs over the years. My 06 RL is a sweet car. It is luxurious, fast, handles great, won't get stuck in snow or rainy conditions, gets the power to the road, has 5 star safety throughout, great audio, great looking, great value. It is an Acura and will not likely need much repair work over the next 150K miles.

Yeah, I'd like a wee bit larger trunk, but what the heck, no one rides in my back seat 99.75% of the time, so the backseat is available as auxillary trunk space. It is what it is.

AsianTL

Amen to that.

neuronbob

+2, well said!

lindros2

V8 power, more dramatic looks (RL looks like a bloated Accord), 6- or 7-speed auto, larger wheels, Audi-like interior components and additional luxury items (cooled seats, etc.).

If these things don't happen I'm jumping to Infiniti or a European marque (Merc S550 would be nice) for my next sedan.

jhr3uva90

Why do you even have an RL?

JonFo

My first post, so be gentle

I’m in the market for an RL, so this might be reflective of what a shopper (vs an owner) wants.

I’d like to see a Diesel option. A modern TDI motor is a wonderful thing, and I can only imagine Honda would get it right.
If they offered a Diesel, I’d take that today.

+1 on ditching Bose in favor of a better supplier. The ML’s in the Lexus are awesome sound systems.

While it would probably not do much for sales numbers, an ‘Estate’ version (AKA Wagon) would be a nice option. Sure would fix the trunk space issue

BTW- in the luxury segment in Europe, Diesel Wagons are big sellers. Beats me why they aren’t here.

CL6

In Europe diesel is not taxed the same way gasoline is so people buy the diesel to save on paying the taxes, not necessarily because it's 'better' than gasoline. Honda will be coming out with a diesel but for the trucks. Wagons are dead here, unfortuantely, so that'll never happen. I don't mind the Bose sound system though many complain. I think speakers sound good or bad depending upon what you're used to.

Mokos23

I know this is an RL forum, but the thing that needs changing is probably to make it a bit longer and bigger like the size of the Lexus LS, 7 series, or S class. Even though I like the styling, I think Honda needs to style it more along the lines like a bigger, longer car like the LS and 7 series.

The reason I say this because during the beginning back in 1990, didn't the Lexus LS400 and Acura Legend compete with each other?

neuronbob

I'm definitely not a fan of Bose in general but their implementation in the RL was pretty good. Not Mark Levinson good, but pretty good nevertheless.

I seem to recall that, too.

CL6

Well they say:

"No highs, no lows must be BOSE."

What don't you like about it?

wstr75

It must be the young guys complaining about Bose quality. Lose a bit of audio processing range like us old folks and you can't tell all that much difference (have a RX 400h with Mark Levinson, too). Then again, you young guys have been getting hammered with super loud auto bass thumpers and long period Ipod/mp3 usage for the past ten years and will be buying top technology cars with audio bone transducers twenty years from now to help you jive to the funky music (funny, sick but unfortunately all too true for a lot of twenty/thirty somethings).

Play that funky music . . . . . Play that funky music LOUD . . . . Love my music, too. Say, when do you think that audio bone transducer technology Motorola has developed will be commercially available? Think I'm gonna need it one day.

TampaRLX-SH

I like the ELS in my former TL and also like the BOSE in the RL. But I notice subtle differences. The ELS has more depth, bass and percieved power with most XM channels. But I find the BOSE system offers better clarity with DVD-A with lower volume. You need not crank the DVD-A to hear the subtle notes on the BOSE. That may be due to the cabin being quiter? I find myseld enjoying the RL system at lower volume than I did in my TL. So perhaps volume is key in bringing out each systems range? Or maybe I am just ready to head to the early bird specials @ Golden Corral!

CL6

I've got Bose in my rig and it seems fine. Annoying thing is the volume control. I wish you could raise the volume by half a click instead of a full click. TL does have a nice sound though.

ellover009

Honda does offer diesel accords in Europe, http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/index.htm?id=99

I don't know about a station wagon, maybe Acura could make one but not and Legend badged one. What would be perfect is if it had the BMW M5 power, it handles like a dream and you can really push it hard, it's time Acura fought back and whooped the German competition. They should make another model even if it cost a bit more, to offer as a higher end model, add M5 power and road holding and you have the ultimate Japanese machine. What I would give for an RL cough (legend) that does 0-60 in less than 6 sec.

Mokos23

Why can't Honda/Acura learn from the past and try to compete with the LS again?

dwboston

My car is at the dealer this morning so they can take a look at the drive shaft - they gave me an 07 TL as a loaner (2nd time in 2 weeks I've driven an 07 TL). I have to say I like the ELS system better than the Bose system in the RL - the ELS system just sounds better to me. I don't really care about or need DVD-A, I like that the TL can play MP3 and WMA files, and I was really impressed with the SVC (?) capability that raises the volume with the vehicle speed. It had a more noticeable effect than the AudioPilot function in the RL. Also, I think the TL shifts much more smoothly than the RL as well, though I couldn't give up SH-AWD. A SH-AWD TL-S would have me seriously interested though.

neuronbob

Sorry I missed your post. Some of the highs are not as crisp as they ought to be. Further, the system is a bit complicated to set up. Those are my only nitpicks with the RL's stereo.

Otherwise, I'm completely satisfied with it. It is one of the best audio systems out there....but ML is a little better, and Bose actually did a good job with it.

Still wouldn't but those teeny, overpriced Bose speakers in my HT, though. Too many inputs on one cone just doesn't make sense to me. But that's another topic for another forum.

Tully44

395 RLs sold last month vs 774 in February, 2006.

I hope Acura has slowed down the assembly line vs a 90+ day supply baking on dealer lots.