shepsan

I attempted to correct my typo in "The RL is still tbest he 6 made anywhere" but failed to do so. The correct read is: "The RL is still the best 6 made anywhere."

Mokos23

Only thing I see they have in common is they have the same shaped roofline that's it.

surferdude

Cost is the first issue. If the price came down more people would buy. The fact is if you are going to spend $50,000+ on a car they want the porsche, BMW, etc. Acura is not associated with luxury like some of these others.

Before you bite my head off though I am a 2 car Acura owner, MDX and TSX which in my opinion out does the competition. Acura needs to either lower the price or step up the marketing...

neuronbob

No, we're not going to bite your head off. You speak the same opinion asmost posters here.

TampaRLX-SH

It is that OTHER forum where they bite your head off!

wstr75

I keep coming back to the same expressions: it is a "sweet" car and a very personal car. Both expressions beg for more explanation, but it is hard to put into words. The handling is intuitive. The audio and navigation controls are intuitive. The performance at times is surprising, especially when you suddenly zoom from 80 mph to 95 mph to suddenly zip around interstate traffic. The gas mileage is surprisingly good for a 4000 pound AWD vehicle. I'm like a broken record with my comments, but IMHO the slowing sales relate to economic concerns affecting many brands in this category and to the sales force not stepping up to the plate (i.e. electing to show TLs and MDXs).

The other comment is the 18 inch wheels should be standard. The standard 17s are a bit dated. The 18 inch wheels help further visually distance the RL from the TL.

VOdoc

+1

neuronbob

+2 with the caveat that they have to be GOOD-LOOKING 18s like the A-spec wheels.

Chas2

You mean you don't like the 18.1-inch PAX wheels? They look just like these 17-inch wheels, only 1.1 inches larger in diameter!

psteng19

Not too sure about that.
The 5, E and M are still maintaining strong sales.

TLover8888

i would like to see push-button start/stop added instead of that retarded-lookin thing you use to start the car. seems like thats the trend nowadays to add. geez, even the nissan altima has it now! so, for such a luxurious car, cant acura just add this??

TampaRLX-SH

The Japanese and Euro LEGEND versions are key start. This was a way for Acura to modify an offer the keyless start that is in fashion with US luxury features without a major ignition redesign.

TLover8888

since the S2000 is push-button start, couldnt acura just transfer that design into the RL??

TampaRLX-SH

If it is already in the Honda parts bin, it would be nice. But we don't know about compatability issues etc. Since the RL is truly a rebadged LEGEND, this ignition solution may have been the easier modification for Acura.

Many other vehicles with push button start are primarily North American produced and sold vehicles. With current RL sales, it is selling more volume elsewhere than the US. So we get the US adaptions to the global design.

You can take this approach toward other frature. I would certainly prefer cooled seats over heated seats, being in Florida. But for some wacky reason, they get cooled seats in Canada, while I toast my sunburnt backside.

Some of Honda's packing decisions will remain a mystery to me.

lland

If Acura didn't want to call the car the Legend, they should have at least called it the RL-X. Cooler than plain "RL." Kind of like MDX, RDX. M35x, FX35...

LL

mrdeeno

I don't think adding an "x" to make the name cooler will help sales.

Rob144

Although I sometimes have trouble starting the car, I prefer this flawed system to a pushbutton. I like being able to turn off the engine and be in accessory mode to still listen to the radio or CD. Most pushbuttons shut everything down, and there's a convoluted process to go back into accessory mode. Plus, I really do like the keyless entry (which I thought would be otherwise hokey).

I remember being in the Infiniti showroom, wanting to see the NAV screen, and the dealer had to guide me through a multi-step process to power up the accessories and not start the car.

However, given that the RL's competitors have pushbutton starters, Honda might have been wise to do so with the Acura RL.

Rob144

The RL exterior design doesn't have much "wow" factor at a distance. The Mercedes E, BMW 5, and Audi A6 all have a signature look that is part of their brand family. The Lexus GS arguably has some "wow" factor in the design. The Infiniti M carries the Infiniti family look (bigger "G") for the most part, but isn't much on the "wow" either.

The RL wheels are OK and easy to keep clean, but could be better (I'm partial to the shiny machined look, and also the A-Spec style). The old man in me has been thinking that a chrome (or bolder) grille would sharpen the look. And the headlight surrounds, too.

Up close, the RL looks athletic and has great paint, but is fairly convential in overall design - with nothing uniquely Honda or Acura except maybe the grille shape. I'm partial to this subtle look, but could see how potential customers might not be excited by it (especially from print ads).

I am happy that the RL doesn't use the heavily angled sinking shoulder crease-line like nearly every other car does these days. The interior is a strong point, too. You've just got to get people inside the car!

Rob144

mrdeeno

Either you or the dealer does not know what they are doing.

Infiniti's "multi-step" process to power up accessories (radio and nav) without starting the car is this:

1. push button

And from any position (acc or on), you can start the engine by stepping on the brake and pushing the button once again.


To turn off the car without turning off the accessories, the "convoluted" process is this:
1. push button to turn off car
2. push button to put car acc mode.

or to shift "neutral" and hit the button, then shift to park.

If that these steps are that "convoluted" or "multi-stepped" for you, then i don't think you should be driving.

Rob144

-- If that these steps are that "convoluted" or "multi-stepped" for you, then i don't think you should be driving.

What, no smiley with that?

If I can't start the car, then I certainly couldn't be driving!

My experience was about a year ago, and was the only time I ever tried to run a car in accessory mode in the showroom, so I could be remembering some things wrong. Maybe convoluted was too strong a word.

I vaguely remember the salesman telling me not to put my foot on the brake so I wouldn't be starting the car in the showroom. That said, you left out Step 0: "put foot on brake" when starting the car.

And I know I can shut off the engine in the RL and continue to enjoy listening to the radio without then taking my foot off the brake and pressing a button to re-enter accessory mode. So, Step 2 of the process is not required in the RL.

It's all what you're used to. I think the RL would have appeared more class-competitive with a pushbutton.

Honda would have done it right .

dseag2

As a former '05 RL owner, I'll have to agree with you there. I always thought the RL was a really beautiful design, but IMO it does look small and unimpressive compared to the competition. I bought one of the first new RLs before the new M and GS were introduced. I traded it for an M (for several reasons) after 5 months. I'll be the first to admit the M doesn't have a lot of pretty lines/angles and the taillights are WAY too big, but it has "presence". Somehow it all just seems to work together. The RL, on the other hand, does have nice lines and the finish is outstanding, but the exterior just isn't that impressive.

A co-worker in another state had an '02 RL and her lease was coming up when the new RL was first introduced. I owned mine at the time and told her what a great car it was. (If anyone should have been interested in another RL, it should have been her.)She and her husband went to test drive it, fully expecting to trade for an '05 RL. Instead, she got a Mercedes E350. I asked her why, and she said the RL was "just too small" compared to the E-Class. We all know all the cars mentioned are similar in size to the RL (some are even smaller), but the RL still looks small. That doesn't work very well in this market segment.

Sorry, not hating on the RL. It still turns my head when I see one on the road. Just giving some objective reasons as to why I think it has not worked as well as Acura expected.

Mokos23

Did you get an M35 or M45? Also, why did you get the Infiniti M instead of the Lexus GS series?

mrdeeno

i did not leave out step 0...you said the salesman wanted to demonstrate how to turn on the accessories without turning on the car....and "push button" to turn on accessories without starting the car is not "multi-stepped" as your post indicated.

The steps are different, but no more "multi-stepped" than the RL to start and drive off.

Infiniti: 1. step on brake. 2. push button to start. 3. shift and drive. since you were already on the brake, you can just shift and drive away.

Acura: 1. turn knob to start. 2. step on brake. 3. shift and drive. You still have to step on the brake, the only difference is you can do it before or after you turn the knob, but regardless you STILL have to do that step.

Turning off the car and keeping accessories on is one more step (push button twice), but c'mon, is it really that confusing to push a button twice?

Please don't make it sound pushbutton is confusing or "tedious", it is not.

dseag2

I traded the RL for an M45 Sport. I thought the GS was the best-looking car, but it wasn't much fun to drive. I would have kept the RL before I would have traded for a GS. BTW, I thought the RL had the nicest interior of the three.

dseag2

Jaguar is busy replacing the curvy, retro S-Type with a new, sharp-edged sedan because that is what the public wants. And yes, the RL does bear a resemblance to the previous Mercedes line, but even Mercedes is introducing a new, more aggressive C-Class and E-Class and has revamped the S-Class to the point of adding aggressive (like them or not) fender flares. And the "Bangle-ized" 5 Series has been a runaway sales success. So, even the "brands" are moving away from conservative styling.

The TL has been a sales success because Acura took some risks with the styling and made it distinctive. They should have done the same with the RL. Brand is part of it, but not all.

Mokos23

Great choice!

I test drove the M45 and wow, it was so fast!

jhr3uva90

The TL WAS a success because it offered much more bang for the buck than its competitors. Once competitors started offering similar features, sales of the TL started to dwindle. Even the new TL Type S isn't helping sales. And the Lexus ES, which sells more than the TL, has very conservative styling.

neuronbob

Don't forget that the TL is near the end of its model life--it's in MY 4 of 5--and model sales tend to die off at that time. In addition, as you state, other manufacturers aped the TL's features.

Don't worry, the TL will be back as it, along with the MDX, is Acura's bread and butter car, they can't afford to screw it up. If they do, Acura is dead.

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

I know I dont have an RL but I think acura should add Ac seats to there cars. Maybe standard on the RL and the MDX. My dads aviator has it and let me tell you that is a VERY VERY nice feature. On hot days it feels amazing.

jhr3uva90

Cooled seats would be wonderful!

Regarding the TL, it is one of the few cars in its class that is still FWD. If the next generation TL is also FWD, then that could impact sales. On the other hand, if they go with SH-AWD, the weight could slow down the TL's performance. It will be interesting to see where they go.

static808

Seeing that the Hyundai V8 luxury sedan will be priceed at $30K+ is going to spell trouble for the RL and all LPS. True its a Hyundai and it will take them years to "make a profit", but Acura and Infiniti might be dead in the water if this puppy takes off. Just imagine if the this Hyundai actually has decent quality and reliability. Infiniti and Acura will be smoked.

The launching of the Global Acura Brand with a Global 2008/2009 refresh of the lineup TSX/TL/RL/NSX, etc.. better be a knockout.

neuronbob

I think it's too little, too late for Hyundai. There is still a stigma (in my mind, anyway) associated with owning a Hyundai, while there never really has been in owning a Honda or its variants. Besides, do you really think that a Kia Amati--a luxury car already made by Hyundai--will own an RL?

I am quite sure the next gen Acuras are going to rock. The 3G TL is an awesome car and I sometimes miss mine. The 2G RL is mostly a poor seller because Acura doesn't bother to market it. The 1G TSX sold more than Acura expected. The MDX sells like hotcakes. I can hardly wait until next year, when the 4G TL is released.

I hope Acura gets its marketing act together.

jhr3uva90

I think just as many people will spend $30K for a Hyundai as will spend $45K for an Acura: few!


You know what I'm going to say. . . it's all about the brand.

static808

I am totally 100% with you on the Hyundai view. It will take them ages to get somewhere with their new line. I am hoping with V8 in a Hyundai, Honda has to build one and rumors are they will. Besides, when you look at it, Acura sells about 200,000+ vehicles and this is with the current poor marketing, it can only get better as you mentioned.

I am beginning to think if Honda is getting cold feet or at least now having to do something. It will take a substanial investment (marketing, possibly refresh North America dealers, new global dealer franchises, totally new sedan model line in 2008-2010 for Acura).

I just hope they introduce a bigger sedan slotted after the RL. That way I don't have to look at a LS/7/S Class. Great cars, but I prefer Acuras.

jhr3uva90

I agree, I would really like to see a true flagship, one that is a full-sized car, above the RL. Otherwise, I might start looking at the Lexus LS several years from now.

Speaking of Lexus, there was an article in last Saturday's Wall Street Journal about how Lexus is struggling to be taken seriously as a high-end luxury brand. Those buying $100,000 cars seem to be ignoring Lexus completely. If Lexus, the most popular luxury brand in the US is struggling to be taken seriously, consider how the rich feel about Acura.

neuronbob

The same way we look down on Hyundai. Good point. The truly rich smiply think differently from us with incomes simply high enough to afford an RL/BMW/Benz/etc.

acuralvr1

There are many very fiscally conservative wealthy folks who look at everything as an investment- as silly as that may sound to some. They're always looking at value and are the ones that look closely at reliability ratings from CR. The Lexus LS is still the the luxury car that many of these people buy on a regular basis.

Many of the ultra rich don't care, but MB, BMW, etc. would go out of business tomorrow if they relied solely on this small group of consumers.

It always has amazed me that a young adult will spend more on a car than they make in income for a year. These live for today types are the ones that keep the luxury brands in business. I think most of the folks here are somewhere in between these last 2 groups.

Wooops, got off topic a bit. Yes, I'd like to see a V8 RL with hand stiched leather and a real wood steering wheel and other luxury features.

I wish the current RL were a bit longer with a larger back seat area, larger trunk, and larger wheels.

jhr3uva90

Actually, the point of the article was many rich people do NOT see the Lexus LS as a car they would buy on a regular basis. Sales of the LS have paled in comparison to the Mercedes S class and the 7 series BMW.

The current RL shouldn't be any bigger, in my opinion. It is roughly the same size as its competitors. However, I would like to see Honda/Acura make a bigger luxury sedan like the Lexus LS.

jcondon

A 1970 Civic was a tiny tinny little ecno box. It was nothing special at all. I would rather have had most domestic brands over a Honda the early 70s. It was an ecno box that cashed in on the Oil Crissis. Honda was not always the great make it is today. Will Hyundai ever get to the build quality of a Honda? Who knows but, they have made leaps and bounds. Just don't forget where Honda was 37 years ago.

Chas2

Although I am sure this has been posted previously, it has been awhile. I think this is still a very good analysis on the RL situation, as good as the car is. It seems as relevant now, as when it was first written one year ago.

While several pages long, I think it kind of summarizes this whole thread.

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=514370