geronimomoe

True... Hence I'm hesistant to buy any German car...

Ibn Rushd

What's weird about the German 3, is that i keep getting mixed reviews.

Everyone here says they'll always be in the shop or whatnot, but here with people who have the cars it's different all around.

My friend, she has a C230 Hatchback, from 2003 or so. And she tells me about all the things that happen to it, and when i sit and ride in it, it really seems okay. No rattles, no lights no problems. She gets her maintenance light and i think a seat belt issue, which was done for free. Other than that, no problem.

My dads friend had an E320 a couple of years ago (2002?) and he told me that it was in the shop more days than it was on the driveway, and that he absolutely hated it. And that's why he decided to go for an Infiniti Q45 over the CLS500.



BMW is entirely different here. I have 4 friends with different BMWs.

1 has a 1998, 300km, auto 328 i believe it is. (he got it in shit condition, fixed it up, and sold it for a profit, and got himself a 98 180k km manual, same car) and the car runs like new and very well.

Another has the 2003 330xi, he says the car has yet to give him a problem with over 100k km on the odometer.

Another one has the 2003 M3, which is second hand, i believe it only has 70k km on it, but it's only had to go in for regular maintenance.

And the last one just bought a 2006 328i, and he has roughly 20 - 25k on it so far, it's just over a year old. And of course no problems.


Audi however i do not know, but i was hoping i knew someone with one, because i was looking to get a A4 Quattro, but with all the bad things i keep hearing i'm really hesitant, i need something AWD and durable and for 17k, a 2006 quattro is ideal. :S



Thus why i was hoping this RL would be a smash hit...ebcause i could wait a bit, and get an 06 RL instead and stay within the Acura family.

geronimomoe

I think with German cars it's more hit and miss vs. the Honda/Acura/Toyota/Lexus which is more hit than miss wrt lack of problems.

darth62

You hate to make choices based on personal experience (instead of the mounds of data at places like Consumer Reports). However, my family has had all kinds of German cars - Beemers, Audis and M-B's. My dad just unloaded his 330i with only 50,000 miles on it because he was tired of all the problems. He had FIVE (count 'em) power windows failed. Over the time he had the car, he replaced each power window motor at least once, and in the end, he felt scared to even roll down the window. He traded it in on a Caddy a few weeks ago.

My sister had an Audi A4, which she loved. She had all kinds of problems with it though. After 37,000 miles the A/C died completely. The car was just out of warranty and it cost about $2,400 to fix (Audi USA picked up half the cost - which was pretty nice). The number of electrical problems she had in just five years was pretty amazing. She had this strange issue where buttons on the dash would inexplicably just fall apart - almost like they were melting in the sun or something.

And, my ex-GF bought a Passat V6. With 40,000 miles on it, it has been in the shop multiple times a year. She told me that she wound up taking a part time job so she could afford to keep in on the road.

Myself, I've had Honda/Acura products for almost 20 years. I admit that I didn't keep any of them all that long (usually selling them at about 80,000 miles) but I probably spent less than $1,000 in unplained repairs costs across the three vehicles. My current Acura has been nearly flawless, although I have a minor electrical issue right now and had an engine mount break.

Mike_TX

But, you know - there are as many of us who had virtually NO problems with German cars.

My only Germans were BMW's (which I hear people run down all the time), and of the 4 I had (one 740i and 3 540i's), the only single problem I had was a display panel on one of the 540's that occasionally dimmed out. This was the small LED panel that showed the A/C set temperatures and outside temp.

The dealer snatched it out and replaced it, no questions asked, and I had no further problems. I think my Beemers were the most bulletproof, trouble-free cars I've owned. I also think that a lot of the "troubles" you hear about is urban legend passed along by people who never even set foot in a BMW or M-B, and maybe even secretly wish they could afford to own one.

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Ibn Rushd

What year were the A4 and the 330?

I heard the 06 A4 had a pretty good rating, but i don't know anyone with it....is there anyone here who have the newer BMW/Audi/Benz? ( 05 and above.)

Either way, we'll see, hopefully the Acura RL has less problems than the previous one...they're going to need a lot of good reports to save that grill!


Well Mike, sometimes it is the case, i'm sure, but i know the older Benzes (2000 - 2004) really dipped badly and the Audi's got much better after 2005, or atleast that's what i keep hearing.

But like someone mentioned, seems to be a very hit and miss production car...i really do want the 06 A4, the quattro will help me in Canada, gas mileage (even though it's premium) will be okay to deal with since i will be keeping the Honda as a daily driver...but even if i don't drive it much i'd rather the car not be in the shop and in my garage instead!

darth62

A4 was a 2003, FWD Turbo 1.8T.

Beemer was older than that.

Rexorg

Wow, can't believe this thread has been dormant since late February, but I guess it got sort of OT after the unveiling of the MMC.

lumpulus

Yeah? Tell that to my friend whose M3's engine puked up a valve at 10,000 miles, and BMW tried to stiff him because they said he drove it too hard.

I think your experience is the exception rather than his.

Mike_TX

Well, Lumpy, you may be right, but BMW's car sales in 2007 were up 13% over 2006, to a total of almost $80 Billion. Maybe it's just me, but if BMW's were the pieces of crap a lot of people say they are, I would think sales would be declining, or maybe even that the company would have gone under by now.

As for your friend, I have to say I'd be suspicious, too. Valves generally go flying for one of two reasons - either there is a broken component (usually a valve spring or "keeper"), or the engine is revved beyond its ability to defy physics, the valve floats, and there is a collision between the valve and the piston. And, yes, that can happen even with rev limiters. And if the keeper or spring is broken, it's usually pretty obvious. So is over-revving damage.

And, after all, people often buy M3's to run them hard. Unfortunately, many of those same people somehow think they are unbreakable, but no machine is unbreakable.

So, yeah, I think BMW's often get an undeserved bad rap. Then again, maybe the four Beemers I had over a ten-year period were just unusually good ones.

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GoHawks

Was at the local mall yesterday and they had a new white 335i coupe on display.

I must say it was pretty (am I allowed to say that?).

It was loaded including Nav, stickering at $48K.

Given that it's much smaller, and no AWD, Ouch.

Then again I'm sure it would bring a smile to my face more than once.

lumpulus

No Mike, the M3's head was defective, and after he threatened with legal action, they suddenly had a change of heart.

M3s are made for spiirited driving, just like my 4 Integras\RSXs I had before I got my RL.
I hit the redline(and fuel cutoff) in the cars every day...never had a problem of any kind.

They should be driven hard, and they are built so they can be driven hard.

BMW, MB, Ferrari, etc, all can count of "prestige" sales, and hopefully some day Acura can too, but I doubt it.

Mike_TX

FWIW, Infiniti has announced its 2009 FX SUV (due in dealers in June) will be available with a 5-liter V-8 making somewhere in the 400-hp range and will be driving a 7-speed automatic transmission.

It's expected the V-8 will also replace the 4.5-liter in the M45, and that the 7-speed transmission will replace the current 5-speeds in the M45 and M35. That same trans will probably also trickle down to the G.

The point, I suppose, is that Infiniti is one of Acura's main competitors, and it's pumping up horsepower and leap-frogging to a 7-speed transmission for 2009 ... is Acura watching what's happening?

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SpicyMikey

Are they watching? Can't tell yet.

These latest 09 products are just rebadged Honda's (RL, TSX), so I don't think we should use them as a benchmark for the "new" direction of Acura going forward.

I think this next TL is the coming out party for the new Acura. It better deliver something other then a 5AT and FWD. If if doesn't, THEN we probably can begin concluding Honda is giving lip service and isn't really serious about competing with BMW, et al.

Ibn Rushd

It looks like Acura is trying to hold out until the NSX unveiling.

And i feel that once that finally comes out with the way people like it and Acura likes it (I saw a sketch, in a Turbo magazine a good friend of mine had, he got it a week before i saw it, it showed a Mid Engined V10 NSX. It used the HSC frame with the curves from the new sports concept, it actually didn't look that bad.) anyway...

I'm saying that it looks like they're trying to hold out...one the NSX comes out, watch it all fall into place...

Like a big Halo car in a sense.

The TL right now is their hottest selling model, so expect it to be big right away. The RL and TSX were cool, but nothing fantastic, i expected more from it.

But put it this way, the NSX comes out, it opens a lot of doors...a rumored DSG transmission, it also allows a V8 to come into the picture as well as a larger car and whatnot.

I know i say it a lot, but seriously, i wouldn't be surprised if the NSX came out, and in walked in a TL Type S (for the next gen), a TSX Type S as well as an RL Type S.

Hell, even the RL Type S might not work because of a new RL coming out a year later, unless they stretch it this current one.

I know it sounds farfetched, but with the way Honda is holding out and still using a 5 speed and whatnot, i'm thinking that they are going to show any power upgrades in the NSX and have it trickle down.

Such as the RL got the new weather thing going on, it's as if the RL is their techno-marvel which displays all cool gadgets, and the NSX will do it for their performance....and i truly believe that if the NSX came out in 07 like it was going to originally, we wouldn't be having this issue.

We'd just have the issue that these cars aren't all that well styling wise.

123456SPEED

I think the 09 RL 'refresh' was a waste of time, money, and effort, that could have been better spent on the continuing current cars, ie 09 TSX and maybe the 09 TL.
why spend all those resources on a car that needs more than what was done to fully compete.

Also cars get reps, and the RL rep is not good. Why throw good money after bad? also with the brand new version RL coming in 2010?

minor tweaks to the RL would have sufficed. makes me wonder about Acura judgement of the market. Could have spent this money making the new TSX really stand out.
over.

mrdeeno

Honda's watching...and their reply is, "Ghosn sooo stupid! He rack disciprine! Honda smart! We no rack disciprine! Customer stupid rike rittle boys...customer want 7-speed tranny? customer want V8? customer want RWD? customer soooo stupid! Honda no risten to rittle boy customer. Honda tell rittle boy customer what they want! ASIMO FTMFW!!!!!!"

cai06

there we go again.. no need for immature or racist comments, please.

neuronbob

mrdeeno, your comment is extremely inappropriate and unnecessary. Check your PM.

synth19

^ +1

plastikman

^ +2

darth62

I really have to wonder about the tranny issue. With all the money Honda claims they pumped into the RL redo, why not offer a more sophisticated tranny? Heck, the new Toyota Corolla will have six speeds. The RL should be more advanced than anything else on the road - not technologically inferior to lowly subcompacts.

I wonder if the issue here is reliability. Maybe Honda doesn't want a repeat of the earlier TL debacle.

kilroy

I am wondering if the 09 RL is two year placeholder for a complete overhaul in 2011. I think its an OK refresh - my wife has an 07 MDX, so I've grown used to the grille.

I considered an RL when I bought my 05 TL, but the price difference plus the obligatory A-spec suspension didn't seem worth it. If they had a Type-S, I probably would have gone with the RL.

Chas2

I believe it is a two year place holder for a 2011 model, perhaps due in late 2010.

Mike_TX

I think Chas is right.

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123456SPEED

I guess since the RL is the so called premium Acura it was worth it to Acura to give the refresh more attention than they normally would for a slow selling, about to be replaced car, 5-6 yr old model.

Mike_TX

Well, and I don't mean this to sound ugly, but sales of the RL have been pretty sad lately, and they had to do something to wring two more production years out of it. It would have just died on the vine if they'd left it unchanged, and might have poisoned the well for years.

Apparently, moving up the release date of the 2011 model wasn't possible, so they put a big dab of lipstick on the existing model and are hoping it will spark enough interest to keep it alive until the 3rd gen comes out in the Fall (or maybe even Spring) of 2010. Unfortunately, the interest it has sparked is somewhat ... ah, negative ... at least around here, so we'll have to see if a new crop of buyers might actually like it and buy it.

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123456SPEED

Yea but with such a small return on RL sales, just seems you should put more resources in your main sellers, the new TSX and TL.

But, maybe it didn't cost that much comparatively. Many of the changes already existed; from the MDX, (engine), and many parts from the Japanese Legend. and maybe the AWD tweaks were already being implemented for the new TL.

Chas2

You call that lipstick? Isn't more like bad denture work?!

Mike_TX

Hey, a little lipstick hides a multitude of sins!



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neuronbob

And Mike.....MY EYES! AAAAAAAAA!

Ibn Rushd

Yeah Mike...have mercy...what did we ever do to you?!

cai06

Reading thru the 2009 RL official press releases I found this pic. Seems to me like the current RL (2005-2008) but with its own version of The Grille. Maybe this was one of their candidates for the MMC (?). It looks somewhat better than the final 09 grille though.
Anyway, take it for what its worth.

halfaznguy87

Yeah looks like the current RL with the new corporate grille. Actually, it looks good based on this illustration..

SpicyMikey

Yea that must have been one of the variants during the design. If I had to bet money, I'd bet that the one we saw in the show was the final winner. This documentation could have been printed up months and months before the show.

TSX69

I wish that they did keep the menacing robotic headlights like in the pic ... oh well.

timmahh

Hey guys.. just came across this; 2009 Honda Legend.. mucho better grill.. just grab the grill and put the Acura logo back on it!!

lumpulus

An improvement for sure, but the distance between the top and bottom of the grill area is just to large for my tastes, and makes the front end look bulbous.

Mike_TX

What's with the backwards "N" in the reflection on the windshield?

At first I thought it was a "mirror effect", but the rest of the letters are right, and it clearly spells out "LEGEND" except for that backwards N.

Otherwise, I agree the grille is better. Big grilles are popular right now, but I think this is one is exaggerated a little by the camera angle.

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neuronbob

You're two days too late, but at least in the right thread.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5550