geronimomoe

Agreed, the M is a nice car..

darth62

Actually, Infiniti is well aware of the problem. The wood in that interior is definitely real, but something about the way it was grained had a real "contact" paper look to it. So, with the recent MMC, they changed the graining (I think the photo above is the "new" interior). Now, it looks much more upscale.

I've not sat in the 2009 RL, but at the LA Auto show, I sat in both the M and 2008 RL. I thought the interiors were about on par. Both had the "lottsa button" look, but that kicks the heck out of an idrive approach.

One thing I have to say is that for all the criticisms some of your are throwing at the RL's exterior, the M35 is no more attractive. In fact, with the recent MMC, Infiniti actually added some rather tacky chrome to the front end of the "non-sport" model.

tommyz

After 3/4 years is the critical year where things start to go. I dealt with so many car issues in my youth i need a realiable car.

I may look for a leftover 08.

Ive done leases. The RL if the bodystyle didnt change seems to keep its value. Maybe not as much as the TL.

Im caught in a ACURA mindbend

neuronbob

Hopefully there will be leftover new '08s by the time you start looking, though I doubt it as production was very constrained near the end due to slow sales. I suspect that given the backlash against the new model among us enthusiasts, people will start looking for early 2G RLs used and their values will depreciate more slowly.

John-acurarl

I drove the RL back to back with the M35x (and the G too), I thought the M was slow and had a wierd fake exhaust sound. The car was also like driving a limo...too big for me. The suspension was fantastic though

geronimomoe

The general public may be indifferent to the grill and just want the "All new" car, with all the improvements...

Hell, I still see 2007's out there.... On ebay a black/ebony 2007 from a dealer in Florida and now a base White/Parchment from the same dealer. Plus, I've been told the GM of that dealer still is driving an 07, which is going on sale soon as well...

Since Acura sold only 383 in January, the way economy's going, wouldn't be surprised if you see 08 leftover's in May/June, even June/July..

Rexorg

Just got a reply e-mail from a Hyundai dealer saying the Genesis with V8 and loaded with all possible options will be way less than $40K. Now I am back on the fence between the '09 RL and the Genesis. Anyone out there deal with Hyundai before as far as service, trade-in values, etc.?

cbusAcuracls

Looks wise Genisis>09 RL.
When I first seen the Genisis I said wow.
When I first seen the 09 RL I said eww...
A friend of mine has a brand new Hyundai. He traded in his Nissian. He loves the Hyundai. I personally have no experience with them so I can't help you there.

dwboston

No AWD is a deal-breaker for me. Can't have a RWD car in New England in the winter.

jwaters943

Highly doubtful. Many Hyundai insiders who post on www.carlounge.net have stated that when fully-loaded, the Genesis will be just under $40k. Besides, the Verazcruz Limited is $38k+ fully-loaded. Once Hyundai offers NAV on the Azera, it will be $32k+ fully-loaded. Any way you cut it, the Genesis should still be a lot of car for the money.

Mike_TX

Well, it depends on what "way less than $40k" means. The car mags are saying the Genesis will sticker under $40,000 fully-loaded (which could mean $39,900), but with discounts (and you KNOW there will be some to get the car launched), it could very likely be had for $37k or less.

I think the second problem they have (after their existing image) is competing with established cars in the same class, like the G35, which can be bought for less than that.

As attractive as the Genesis appears to be, I'll admit I would tend to buy a G35 before I'd go for the Hyundai, all other things being equal.

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Rexorg

Don't know what the guy meant when he said way less than $40K, but anyway you look at it it seems to be a bargain. I am drooling over 375 HP (Only 368 HP with regular gas) and under 6 second 0-60, and the 500+ watt Lexicon audio system with HD radio and hard drive Navi. That just might push me off to the Hyundai side come next year.

cai06

I think that summarizes everything. It was my understanding from one of Hyundai's press releases that they are targeting a different market. They know very well that people who buy luxury cars (MB, Lex, BMW..) usually don't even consider a Hyundai. They are targeting people who would otherwise buy a loaded Camry, Accord, Malibu, Maxima, etc. "You can have BMW, MB, Lexus quality and luxury for the same or slightly more". Again, nothing bad with the Genesis.

darmok

Sorry for being so harsh there - the only one I've spent any seat time in had the fake carbon fiber trim on it (as seen in this picture) which I thought looked very declasse. The wall of buttons underneath the screen is not at all ergonomic either. I personally think the RL has a much better executed interior and from what I've seen in pictures the '09 takes it up another notch.

For what it's worth I really dislike the interior of the MDX too for much the same reason.

jwaters943

That's not fake carbon fiber. That's patterned real aluminum trim.

TampaRLX-SH

OK, the joke is over.

Castro resigned.

They can remove that ugly mask off the RL now. It worked.

Now move along people, nothing to see here.

SpicyMikey

The Bay of Pigs invasion and 50 years of embargos couldn't rattle the guy. But one look at that grill and he snapped.

lumpulus

Anyone that spends $40k for a Hyundai(Rhymes with Sunday, remember that ad?) of any type is not thinking right,IMO.

They are disposable cars, but their marketing people are shrewd, I'll give them that.

I predict the Genesis will start to fall apart after 2, maybe 3 years

JAB00

This may be the brand snob in me but I think it's sad that anyone who owns an RL or equivalent class car would be seriously thinking about getting a Genesis. I can bet with some certainty that 5series, E-class, GS (or IS350), and even M owners are not even considering that.

This car appeals more to people thinking about upgrading from an Avalon, Maxima, 300c. It may also entice the entry level luxury segment a little. This car has similar aspirations as the VW Phaeton. By all accounts, that car was a wonderfully engineered car that kept up with or out handled the 7 series/S-class market. Yet it tanked because of lack of brand cache that's critical in the luxury segment.

It's possible that RL owners feel like the black sheep already or outsiders looking in so migrating the the Genesis is not a stretch?

larrynimmo

honestly, I would test drive a Genesis before buying another RL. If I could buy the vehicle near invoice I'd roll the dice. Todays Hyundai is built to a much higher standard. They are up and coming. You talk about the VW failure, but without the market price. The Genesis is at least 12k below comparable market value. If the equipment level and sizing is right for you, this may be the car.

For right now and next 3.5 years, the RL is the right car for me, and nothing will even come close to taking its place.

GoHawks

My uncle and cousins own an auto repair shop. I mentioned this same thing and they literally laughed in my face.

Their response was that Hyundai pulls you in with the 100K mile warranty, and while the engine and tranny may hold up that long, the rest of the car won't. They recounted of several horror stories of cars with broken seatbacks, electrical gremlins, falling trim pieces of cars that are just out of the bumper to bumper warranty (when they see these cars).

The made fun of me for even considering putting a Hyundai and my RL in the same category.

SpicyMikey

I'm not much of a brand snob. I suspect most of us aren't. However, I'd be hesitant to buy this new Genesis until it's out a couple years. Also, I agree with GoHawks. All cars look good on the showroom floor. The question is how are they after 20k miles.

geronimomoe

I'm sure that was the same reaction when the Japanese cars were in the market after 20 odd years.

I don't think anybody has been laughing about Japanese cars for the past 20 odd years....

If Hyundai is able build the Genesis with high quality standards, many folks won't be laughing any longer...

GoHawks

I made that same argument. They still laughed stating that the quality is just not there yet.

That said, I'm not naive enough to think that it can't happen down the road. I'm just not ready to be the lab rat yet.

Same goes for the CTS. As much as I admire that car. I wouldn't commit to buying one just yet. It needs to prove itself out from a reliability standpoint.

SpicyMikey

I'd have to assume the quality CAN'T be of the same level. I understand the labor South Korea is lower then Japan and the U.S., but I tend to think there are lots of cut corners to get those prices to work. I'd be skeptical about a sub $40k car that seems to have everything a top end $53k RL offers.

Mike_TX

LOL. You could say the same thing about GM, Chrysler and Ford cars, with their sorry build quality.

But your relatives are of course basing their criticism on older Hyundai cars. When you build a car to a $19,500 list price, you HAVE to cut corners. There's no way around it. In the case of the Genesis, though, they're building to a higher price point, and can therefore engineer in more quality and better materials.

Hyundai's problem, as we've already discussed, is going to be divesting people of the impressions their entry-level (cheap) cars have created, and convincing them their mid-priced cars are as good as anyone's. Again, the SAME problem Honda and Toyota and Nissan faced in years past. In fact, I know people who still haven't let go of the Honda-is-a-tin-can impression they got back in the early 70's when the first roller-skate Civics hit our shores.



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GoHawks

While it may take a while for today's Hyundai's work their way so that my relatives see them on a consistent basis, they still do see some late model cars. Remember that not all of these people use the dealer for things like oil changes and basic maintenance (i.e. brakes).

Also, I don't entirely agree that a sub $20k car requires that you cut corners with respect to build quality and longevity.

Look at a Corolla or a new Civic. The Civic is an awesome car that should run well past 100k miles with realtively few issues.

Sure it may not have the same level of sound insulation, or the plastics may not be on-par with an RL, but you know that they're better than the competition and it doesn't feel cheap when compared with other cars in it's class.

BTW, I got the same laughing when I mentioned the CTS. They are hard core Toyota, Honda fans.

The only GM product that they appreciate is the Corvette. I'd get disowned by them if I ever bought a Ford or Chrysler product.

geronimomoe

Just food for thought but another reason that I'd never buy a big 3 or a VW, even if the quality was a lot better than they are right now is dealer service.

OK, there have been complaints about Acura dealer service but I suspect that dealer service with an Acura or Honda in general is going to be better than dealer service of big 3 or VW dealers..

Until their dealer service is substantially better, I won't even bother...

shubysingh

by big 3, you probably mean benz, bmw, and probably audi right?
i dont know about bmw and audi, but in my experience, a benz dealer has WAY better service than an acura dealer.
im not saying acura has bad service, just that in my limited experience, acura is no where close to benz.

geronimomoe

No. Ford, GM, Chrysler.

I imagine BMW, MB, Audi service is phenomenal. My parents have a MB and I know the service at their dealer is phenomenal.

Frankly, for the money you pay for the the German big 3, you better get phenomenal service. I suspect you will pay more than service at an Acura dealer though.

kssod

How about an RL with the style of the new CC. Very similar to a CLS and the new BMW 8 concept. Saw the CC at the NAIAS and it looks very nice, good curves and integration of lines front to back. It "flows" to the eye like the GS also.

lumpulus

That's because MB, BMW, and Audi get lots of practice.

SpicyMikey

That's true But even with all that practice at MB, my brothers S gave him some bad experiences with service. Plus, the last time he dropped it off to have the power steering pump replaced, they gave him a Chrysler 300 loaner He traded it in after that experience

jwaters943

The market for such a vehicle is very limited IMO. The steeply raked rear window seriously compromises headroom......and to think, people complain about the cramped rear seating now. As much as I kind of like the VW CC I think these type of vehicles are more or less a stylistic exercise that won't last past the next decade.

sadlerau

Civic RS !!! Gee Mike_TX where did you find a photo of THAT? I have a friend who would die for one of those. Great car, but I thought they only sold them in Japan.

Mike_TX

I just grabbed it off Wikipedia.

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Mike_TX

Is it possible I saw an '09 today???

I glanced up and saw what looked for all the world like The Grille coming at me on the opposite side of the road. By the time traffic allowed me to look at in the rearview mirror, I wasn't as sure. But it sure looked like a brand-new '09 RL to me, and whatever it was it had a new vehicle paper tag on it.

I guess I thought they weren't actually o the road yet.

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TampaRLX-SH

Based on the right hand drive and the fender mounted side view mirrors, I would say that was a JDM model in the pic.

Ibn Rushd

Hahahaha, Mike, maybe you saw the new TL! Aren't those in testing right now?


Man i think people would die if the TL and the RL looked alike with the same bulging grill...


Acura would, that's for sure!

shubysingh

wow, i was horribly wrong...