Rexorg

My good buddy at my Acura dealership confirmed the 3rd gen RL will indeed have a V8 (330-340 HP?) and finally be a full-size luxury car. Also, the new TL will really be a stunner when it comes out. He said the TL will borrow a lot from the new Accord as far as styling and be really fast (under 6.0 seconds), but probably with the addition of a modified SH-AWD system to handle all the torque of a new engine.

My buddy told me at his dealership the MDX and TL Type-S are really hot and that the RL is holding its own. However, the RDX is not doing too well since size matters and must buyers want the added room of the MDX.

SpicyMikey

Has Acura even indicated there will be a redesign in '09? Your friends info sounds more like speculation (no offense to your friend). Do you know his sources? He'd need to have a pretty impressive inside track since the car isn't even be off the drawing board yet.

Rexorg

My old buddy has been in the car business for 35+ years, and with Acura as an executive at the dealership for many years. The new RL will be coming out in 2008, probably in October as is Acura's habit. This is not specualtion on his part. He regularily attends marketing seminars and/or Acura reps come to the dealership to provide the salespeople with info about new product. New cars are designed years in advance. Most car companies plan 5-10 years in advance after assessing what the market will be. Miost of the time they get it right and sometimes not.

neuronbob

(Prays that Acura doesn't FUBAR the next TL)

That's interesting speculation. Can't wait to find out what makes it to the showroom in 1 1/2 years as the next RL. The current RL is great and its only faults are a) marketing, b) needs a wee bit more rear seat and trunk room, c) more power, Scotty! d) RWD as an option. That's it. If those issues are addressed, especially marketing, Acura dealers won't be able to keep the next RL on the lot.

CL6

I'm sorry but I don't believe you. Time will tell but Honda altering their 5 year model run to produce a re-designed RL in 08 doesn't make sense.

TampaRLX-SH

I would agree. Being our RL is a global vehicle, I cannot see the current RL being altered significantly in that <5 year model run. Especially as the LEGEND is still being newly introduced in some markets. Usually content alterations are the primary changes to keep a model run viable (and alows for global content alterations). Meanwhile, Honda is attempting to rebrand the LEGEND as Acura RL to other global markets (upscale the model by rebranding). A dramatic engineering change would be wasted on a current generation. The ALL NEW "fill-in-the-blank" would likely be the optimum time to excite the market segment.

That said, I would not be surprised that Acura pulls out a new flagship (with such features being discussed here) to either position above the RL or displace the RL in the North American market (and let it soldier on globally). I believe Acura wants to have unique designs for the Acura brand and not rebadged Hondas. The flagship model would be an ideal model to introduce this brand differentiation.

jhr3uva90

To start out with, Acura has very little to do with the development of the RL. As TampaRL has stated, the RL/Legend is a global vehicle. Honda in Japan develops the car and the next RL will be available when Honda Japan says so, NOT when Acura (still a North America entity) says so. We will probably find out about the RL over the Internet at the same time the Acura dealerships find out.

TampaRLX-SH

Assuming that Honda maintains total control over Acura products. But I am seeing the Acura brand making strides with truley Acura desined products (not rebadged Hondas). The TL and MDX are successful models designed by Acura, not Honda (although asembled in conjunction with Honda - which I do not see that changing).

BUT, since Honda wants to have the Acura brand expanded globally, Acura designed model may be exported from the North American design models (i.e the TL). And IF Acura is allowed to design thier own flagship with North American appeal (as discussed in this thread), the RL may or may not find it's market within the Acura line up. However, the new Acura flagship MAY become and export product along with the TL. I would hope to see the MDX make that export list as well.

If Honda allows the Acura brand to become more global, it may elevate the prestige factor of the current model (globally) and give Acura more guts to design and deliver thier OWN flagship model to compete in the North American market segment.

Its very intereting as Acura has been held to be somewhat of Honda's afterthought brand. Where now Honda may be using the Acura brand to expand on the upmarket appeal of existing models and perhaps future models designed by Acura.

SpicyMikey

I agree, this friend rexorg got the info from is just throwing out some bad rumor he heard somewhere and calling it fact. Doesn't even make sense.

CL6

Honda is a very conservative company. They are not going to do anything drastic, which is perhaps part of their problem. I'm sure in 2009 when the RL is redesigned it may very well have a V8 as a Type-S or something and other features. But the sales managers know little, the district reps know more but, really, the HQ is very tight lipped about the entire thing so unless this guy's buddy lives in Japan and is an executive at Honda, I doubt he knows much.

I've spoken with development teams from Honda Japan who work on improvements for the 'next' model (whatever they are assigned to) or accessories, etc. and they know more but would never talk in terms of concrete examples but stuff like "Should we produce an MDX without a third row" or "Having the Type-S come with completely different bumpers" or stuff like that.

TampaRLX-SH

Forbes Auto mentions:

"The Acura RL is due for its next redesign in 2010 or 2011, and it may share a newly developed V10 engine with the coming NSX sports car. "


But I am sure this is truly speculatory as well.

CL6

I wouldn't trust Forbes for my automotive news, but I would love to see a V10 stuffed into an RL. That would be one fast Honda!

White92

Agreed. The RL will not be redesigned in 08. We will be getting the new TSX in the spring of 08 and the TL in the fall of 08, but no new RL. I'd like to see it happen, but it just won't.

SpicyMikey

Personally I like the RL just the way it is. I hope they don't screw it up. I'd like to see them place something completely new above the RL -- not grow this model

CL6

I hear there will be a 'new' Acura model next year... a coupe is what the word on the street is. TSX coupe, apparently. Well, they call it an 'un-named' model but it can't be a CL because that would come out when the TL is redone.

I hope the TSX doesn't have SH-AWD.

White92

The TL will. The internet rumors say the new TSX will have SH-AWD and a version of the RDX turbo engine. I've been told not to look for that right from the start. A coupe should arrive about 18 months into it. The execs are really pushing for a convertible version as well. They are working on it, but who knows if that will ever see the light of day.

acuralvr1

Someone please explain to me why Acura would come out with RWD when SH-AWD is their new standard in their new models? First the RL, then the MDX, and it would make sense that the TL receives the SH-AWD technology especailly since the major negaitive with that car is the torque steer. Honda has spent a great deal of money on SH-AWD and all of us who own the RL know the benefits.

What would RWD do better than SH-AWD?

RLuvr08

Drift

But as stated above. I don't/won't believe it until I see it or see it published somewhere. I've heard plenty of claims regarding the next/succesor to the NSX from dealer sources for years, and all have just been speculations. It would be nice though.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't mind if SOME of the acura's are rebaged hondas if the result is great. I mean i was totally surprised that the new TL-S is capable of beating both the new G35 sport and IS350 on a race track (willow springs) by 2 seconds. Considering that it makes 20 less hp and weigh more than the other 2 RWD cars, its FWD layout seems to be able to at least keep up with the G and IS. In this case, I wouldn't mind if the car is based on a Honda Accord.

As for the RL, is it possible that Honda might just come up with a North American version of it? Similar to how the European accord is different that the American accord. I understand that the RL isn't a popular car like the accord to justify its development cost, but, that COULD happen IMO (even though not likely).

TampaRLX-SH

Rebadged and shared platforms / components are very different things. A TL is not a rebadged Accord. They do share platform and some internal parts, as well as assembled on the same plant, but ulimately are not rebadged models.

The European Accord is rebadged as Acura's TSX. They are ultimately the same car with a different name. Some packaging and feature differences is all. The US Accord is designed and built in the US, which was rebadged to Japan as the Inspire. The Euro Accord and the Inspire co habitate in Japan, but share nothing then select Honda parts and the Accord name on different continents. They are different vehicles.

The RL is the North American version of the Honda Legend. But only in name and some packaging / content variations. With RL sales relatively low, I doubt any major reingineering would be made to 'Americanize' the RL any more than additional content changes. It is not worth any significant re-engineering for a low seller almost halfway into it's model run.

The TL, MDX, RDX are true Acuras. They were designed by Acura with the North American market in mind. Yes, they were assembled by Honda of North America, and share Honda mechanicals, as all Acuras will continue to do. The TSX and RL are Hondas rebadged as Acuras. In the case of the TSX, it was a success in the North American Market. In the case of the RL, it did not fit the North American benchmark for a premium brand flagship. So perhaps the TSX will soldier on as a rebadged Honda in its next model iteration.

If Acura wants a flagship to better compete in the North American market, it should be designed to appeal to North American tastes which do not nececarrily compliment the remainder of the globe's expectations. That likely is the gamble Honda is unwilling to allw Acura to play. Likely it would have to be designed by Acura, built by Honda of North America, and capture the attributes of competive North American flagships. That would not be a rebranding of a Honda Legend. That pill may be too large for Honda to swallow.

Would the RL, as a rebranded LEGEND still fit into the Acura lineup should that happen? I would hope so... I think it is an amazing vehicle. The faults I find with it are not a lack of a v8 or v10, not the lack of RWD, and not even the lack of an 'L' on the grille. The biggest fault I find with the RL is Acura's apparent distaste for it, lack of marketing and the silly RL name.

neuronbob

Make the average American think luxury, and weigh less than SH-AWD. That's about it. SH-AWD is the direction that Acura itself has indicated it will go, and Honda seems cotent in making Acura the Japanese Audi. If they can get that message out, should be fine.

As I said above, this 3G RL stuff is interesting speculation....Honda will try to get the max mileage out of the Legend first. I think the reason for the worldwide rollout of the Legend so late after its release in the U.S. is its failure in the U.S.....Honda had to do something with that factory while the Legend is redesigned.

SpicyMikey

That test result would make a great foundation for a commercial! Ending with the tag line we all kicked around on another thread in the past, "Acura....you'll find us at the intersection of performance and luxury" (show a car scretching to a stop in the middle of an intersection called "Performance" and "Luxury")

Come on Acura! Promote your cars! Has anyone seen that latest RDX commercial. Lame. They need to fire their ad company.

wstr75

The original thread comments make sense . . . . when looking at the big picture. Acura over the past several years appears to be reframing itself as Honda's "masculine" brand with the bolder styling (MDX and TL-S), SH-AWD and soon, higher power outputs. SH-AWD across the entire product line-up. Re-positioning the RL as a larger and higher powered SH-AWD product first introduced in the USA makes sense. Lastly, the X number of years between product generations will have to inevitably be reduced as auto manufacturers are leveraging their ability to introduce new products faster as a competitive advantage. My $0.02.

VOdoc

Interesting thought and probably the best explanation of the available evidence. OTOH, a marketing company recently contacted me to participate in a focus group regarding the future RL. The rep commented that they had lots of guys participating and were trying to get more women or married couples. Foolishly, they scheduled all of their evals during bankers' hours. Not so good for those of us who work for a living. So no, I didn't go there. But they have not abandoned women entirely.

Mikey, I'm still willing to produce the audio for that proposed Acura spot using the "intersection of performance and luxury" tagline that you and I came up with. Just need one of the mods to indicate how we could post an mp3 file here. Hopefully would not run into any trademark/copyright issues etc. since it is just a demo.

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

Well if the RL is supposed to be all new for 09 that would mean 3 new models would be out. Thats also when the TL and TSX are supposed to be all new and updated. To me that seems kind of crazy that acura would introduce 3 new cars all at the same time. However if they did that though I bet they would have record sales that year.

neuronbob

It's not that hard to post an mp3 here. If you host it, just provide a link to the fil so people can download it and listen to it. AZ doesn't host pix or mp3 files because of the bandwidth required to do that.

I think it's a good idea, and Acura either needs to give their ad agency the desired direction or get rid of them altogether.

SpicyMikey

Go for it! I'm in the software business but wouldn't know where to begin. That's not my thing. I'd get a kick out of seeing someone develop an ad "on the side" that's better then the one's Acura no doubt pays millions for. Who knows, maybe they'll buy it from you.

synth19

I stopped reading this thread when I read "my buddy at the dealership said..." We hear this time and time again on car forums without any substantiated facts. 2cents.

CL6

Check it out:

http://vtec.net/modelmatrix/

Treblig

I heard from my dealer that Acura will be looking at a V-8 or V-10 RL and entry into a higher class level, a true luxury, luxury performance model.

CL6

I could see a V8 with VCM. Honda already developed a V8 for the ALMS and it's been winning everything in sight. They already have a V10 they've been racing for a while. I think an RL V6 and V8 and the NSX with a V10. An RL diesel isn't out of the question as the Ridgeline is projected to get a V6 diesel in the near-future but that market has got to be tiny and the resources may not be spent on a handful of monthly sales. But that's got to be at least 2 years away (as far as the RL goes). In the meantime I'm looking forward to seeing what changes were made to the 08 RL when it shows up in August.

SpicyMikey

You really think there will be any changes? If so, what do you think they may do?

Obviously nothing in the body or drivetrain will change, but given the poor sales and the early '08 delivery, I'm suspecting there will be literaly nothing different.

CL6

I heard an effort to create more backseat room. Not sure how. Hopefully a touch-up of the front and back as happens with all Acuras in the 3rd model year. What I hear, though, is 'what's the point' so all bets are off. We will know in 3 months.

TampaRLX-SH

I think the idea of a diesel is interesting. Diesels are known for tractor like torque, and hopefully would mate well with SHAWD. I would expect the Honda diesel to be a clean burner as Mercedes Bluetech. But likely Honda will hold back to see how well Mercedes green(er) diesel is accepted before offering on sedans.

Any diesel techs here to opine?

CL6

Actually the MB is as clean as the Honda. MB uses cow urine to remove some of the nasty gases from the diesel whereas the Honda does not. The Cow urine, er, urea, comes in a pack which must be changed. The Feds didn't want to approve it at first because they figured the urine packs wouldn't be changed after a while, producing bad exhaust.

How do you like them apples?

TampaRLX-SH

Oh those silly Germans! Isn't our own pee good enough?

I am having visions of pulling over on a country road where cows are grazing, cup in hand.

Is this another form of biodiesel?

CL6

Cow pee:

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-12544_10...sageID=2327336

TampaRLX-SH

Don't you have some Acuras to sell?

CL6

I love to educate people about the advanced engineering our competitors.

Mike_TX

Pee? As far as I'm concerned, they can use cow dung if it'll make diesel exhaust where it doesn't choke and gag you.

Drive along behind a diesel pickup or a city bus for a few minutes and you'll be coughing up soot for a hour.

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