My '03 CLS6 progress thread
I put up a for sale thread with all new oem acura parts.
https://acurazine.com/forums/car-parts-sale-361/new-oem-acura-parts-887484/
I will be working on the car tomorrow, mainly rear suspension, and try and lower the car slightly. Will post updates tomorrow.
https://acurazine.com/forums/car-parts-sale-361/new-oem-acura-parts-887484/
I will be working on the car tomorrow, mainly rear suspension, and try and lower the car slightly. Will post updates tomorrow.
Installed the rear coils and the fastline performance adjustable end links. Adjusted the preload of the sway with me in the driver seat. Regreased all 4 sway bushings.
According to my mechanic this is as low as I can go with the springs preloaded. He said it can go lower but the spring won't be preloaded then. Does this make sense to you guys? What is the point of all that threading on the coil then? In case I want to raise it 2 feet? My weight loss shouldn't affect it that much.
I still have some noise coming from the rear though. It is almost like a metallic squeeking only when the road undulates. Like where there are mini speed bumps or big speed bumps. It is hard to diagnose it. It could be the swaybar, shock, spring, aluminum top hat, rear deck, weight loss related, or maybe I need different spring rates, etc.
I checked all the bushings and ball joints and all seemed fine. I checked all the bolts to make sure none were loose. I also lubricated all the bushings.
I must say that there is a huge difference with these coils in the rear versus the koni/eibach setup. The rear just feels tighter and more responsive. I can even tell a difference when accelerating and braking. On some tight corners I could feel the rear inside wheel tripoding. I never noticed feeling that with the koni/eibachs in the rear. The trunk prop rod I installed kept popping out of the clip since these coils are so stiff, even on softer dampening settings.
I have never driven a car that handles like this before. Even a stock M3 doesn't really compare. I know most people will call BS on that though. A certain off-ramp I use I can take in the range rover comfortably at 65 mph. In the CL I can take it at 90 mph. I would not feel comfortable at those speeds in a rwd car. If you lose the rear end you are screwed.
According to my mechanic this is as low as I can go with the springs preloaded. He said it can go lower but the spring won't be preloaded then. Does this make sense to you guys? What is the point of all that threading on the coil then? In case I want to raise it 2 feet? My weight loss shouldn't affect it that much.
I still have some noise coming from the rear though. It is almost like a metallic squeeking only when the road undulates. Like where there are mini speed bumps or big speed bumps. It is hard to diagnose it. It could be the swaybar, shock, spring, aluminum top hat, rear deck, weight loss related, or maybe I need different spring rates, etc.
I checked all the bushings and ball joints and all seemed fine. I checked all the bolts to make sure none were loose. I also lubricated all the bushings.
I must say that there is a huge difference with these coils in the rear versus the koni/eibach setup. The rear just feels tighter and more responsive. I can even tell a difference when accelerating and braking. On some tight corners I could feel the rear inside wheel tripoding. I never noticed feeling that with the koni/eibachs in the rear. The trunk prop rod I installed kept popping out of the clip since these coils are so stiff, even on softer dampening settings.
I have never driven a car that handles like this before. Even a stock M3 doesn't really compare. I know most people will call BS on that though. A certain off-ramp I use I can take in the range rover comfortably at 65 mph. In the CL I can take it at 90 mph. I would not feel comfortable at those speeds in a rwd car. If you lose the rear end you are screwed.
Last edited by brian6speed; May 16, 2013 at 04:10 PM.
So I have tried everything to get rid of the rear suspension noise to no avail. I just spoke with endless usa about it and they think the rear coils are damaged beyond repair from the original owner and that I will need to replace them.
Going on over 3 years now trying to get the suspension settled. It won't happen this year but maybe next year I can finally have a properly working suspension.
This is gonna halt most of my plans this year and I will probably have to skip the national meet because of it also. Nothing new for me.
So looks like I can shell out a lot of money to replace the damaged suspension good ole brianlin87 sold me or I can get a new suspension.
Does anyone have any recommendations on something for me? I can't think of anything else I want that is made for our car.
Going on over 3 years now trying to get the suspension settled. It won't happen this year but maybe next year I can finally have a properly working suspension.
This is gonna halt most of my plans this year and I will probably have to skip the national meet because of it also. Nothing new for me.
So looks like I can shell out a lot of money to replace the damaged suspension good ole brianlin87 sold me or I can get a new suspension.
Does anyone have any recommendations on something for me? I can't think of anything else I want that is made for our car.
Have you looked into AMR Coilovers? They are the best suspension for the 6thgen Accord community. You can choose custom spring rates on your order. They primarily use HyperCoil springs for their coilovers but you can opt for other brands if you like.
I have a set for my 6thgen Accord back then, I took the coils out when I sold the Accord. Now I have a CLS 6spd but haven't installed it on yet so no reviews for the CL yet. My coilovers is valved for 14k/12k spring rates. It felt TOO sporty on the Accord, but not the bad type of sporty you get from taiwanese coilovers if you know what I mean (properly damped shocks matched with springs vs the opposite). They absorbed the road very well. They have a knob for 8 settings for stiffness, and each turn of the knob DOES make a difference on feel unlike those cheaper 32-settings coilovers.
Hopefully the extra weight of the CL will relieve some of that sportiness compared to the lighter accord when I install the coilovers.
So yea, just a suggestion from a newbie member
I have a set for my 6thgen Accord back then, I took the coils out when I sold the Accord. Now I have a CLS 6spd but haven't installed it on yet so no reviews for the CL yet. My coilovers is valved for 14k/12k spring rates. It felt TOO sporty on the Accord, but not the bad type of sporty you get from taiwanese coilovers if you know what I mean (properly damped shocks matched with springs vs the opposite). They absorbed the road very well. They have a knob for 8 settings for stiffness, and each turn of the knob DOES make a difference on feel unlike those cheaper 32-settings coilovers.
Hopefully the extra weight of the CL will relieve some of that sportiness compared to the lighter accord when I install the coilovers.
So yea, just a suggestion from a newbie member
Thnx for suggestion but I am just not sold on the AMR's for track duty.
Looks like I will either stay with zeal or have tein make me a custom set. I am more looking into getting something custom made more for the track and not just street setup.
Will have to see what zeal/endless says and go from there. Gonna be a waiting game since their head tech is gone till July and they are always backed up atleast 2 months on rebuilds.
Looks like I will either stay with zeal or have tein make me a custom set. I am more looking into getting something custom made more for the track and not just street setup.
Will have to see what zeal/endless says and go from there. Gonna be a waiting game since their head tech is gone till July and they are always backed up atleast 2 months on rebuilds.
Endless/zeal want me to pay for shipping there and back and $50 per coil just to inspect them. From what I gather inspecting does not mean testing.
I can already picture I do all that and they say everything looks fine. Not sure if I should even bother or just get rid of this cursed suspension.
My rear coils have less than 100 miles since they last charged me for a rebuild that fixed nothing. I tried sending them back within the 6 month warranty but was told that they are overbooked for 2 months and are not accepting any new shipments.
So now they say sorry it is past 6 months. How do we know they only have 100 miles or less.
I can already picture I do all that and they say everything looks fine. Not sure if I should even bother or just get rid of this cursed suspension.
My rear coils have less than 100 miles since they last charged me for a rebuild that fixed nothing. I tried sending them back within the 6 month warranty but was told that they are overbooked for 2 months and are not accepting any new shipments.
So now they say sorry it is past 6 months. How do we know they only have 100 miles or less.
I wanted to ask for opinions on oil. What would be a good street/auto-x/track compromise. Is there any reason not to run race oil on street cars besides clogging the cat? My mechanic recommended a 0w40.
What is difference between say redline 0w40 and redline 40 weight race oil? Need to do more research on www.bobistheoilguy.com.
i think it was TypeR that mentioned getting Koni to reverse the dampening on the struts so the knob would adjust rebound. It stopped the front from popping up when you gun it. So seems they could do some cool things for you.
Yes I remember reading that multiple times. I emailed koni and will see what they say. I am leaning more to koni or tein since they already make parts for us and know the dimensions.
Here is the reply koni sent me:
"We have a few custom options that we can build for the car ( as we've done everything including the 28-series for the accord which shares the same suspension). Options will include our 3011 and our 2812 line of dampers which we can custom make to match the factory mounting on the car. The main difference is going to be the pricing between the units as it will run anywhere between $2400-$4200 for a car set."
Suspension would be worth more than the car.
"We have a few custom options that we can build for the car ( as we've done everything including the 28-series for the accord which shares the same suspension). Options will include our 3011 and our 2812 line of dampers which we can custom make to match the factory mounting on the car. The main difference is going to be the pricing between the units as it will run anywhere between $2400-$4200 for a car set."
Suspension would be worth more than the car.
Yea, I know. I expected those prices. Looks like the 3011 would be the way to go and cheapest option. They start a lil over 500 per shock. Looks like the 2812's start around $975 per shock.
Koni said:
"You would need to provide an upper hat piece to work with 2.5" springs though (the factory can be modified if needed though). We do not provide springs but can get them for you if you know the rate that you're looking to use.
As for spring rates, it depends greatly on the type of use for the car. A good starting point for reading about this can be found at http://www.optimumg.com/technical/technical-papers/ . The lightening of the car will affect spring rate some for a given ride frequency and must be considered though if you don't have it scaled, an educated guess is typically good enough to get you started."
"You would need to provide an upper hat piece to work with 2.5" springs though (the factory can be modified if needed though). We do not provide springs but can get them for you if you know the rate that you're looking to use.
As for spring rates, it depends greatly on the type of use for the car. A good starting point for reading about this can be found at http://www.optimumg.com/technical/technical-papers/ . The lightening of the car will affect spring rate some for a given ride frequency and must be considered though if you don't have it scaled, an educated guess is typically good enough to get you started."
From the website optimumg:
"The first step in choosing spring stiffness is to choose your desired ride frequencies, front and rear. A ride frequency is the undamped natural frequency of the body in ride. The higher the frequency, the stiffer the ride. So, this parameter can be viewed as normalized ride stiffness. Based on the application, there are ballpark numbers to consider.
0.5 - 1.5 Hz for passenger cars
1.5 - 2.0 Hz for sedan racecars and moderate downforce formula cars
3.0 - 5.0+ Hz for high downforce racecars
Lower frequencies produce a softer suspension with more mechanical grip, however the response will be slower in transient (what drivers report as “lack of support”). Higher frequencies create less suspension travel for a given track, allowing lower ride heights, and in turn, lowering the center of gravity. Ride frequencies front are rear are generally not the same, there are several theories to provide a baseline.
Higher Front Ride Frequency
The out of phase motion between front and rear vertical motion, caused by the time delay between when the front wheel and rear wheel hit the bump, is accentuated by the frequency difference. A result of the phase difference is pitching of the body. To reduce the pitch induced by hitting a bump, the rear needs to have a higher natural frequency to “catch up”
with the front. This notion is called producing a “flat ride”, meaning that the induced body pitch from road bumps is minimized.
Higher Rear Ride Frequency
For a given wheelbase and speed, a frequency split front to rear can be
calculated to minimize pitching of the body due to road bumps. A common split is 10 – 20% front to rear.
The above theory was originally developed for passenger cars, where comfort takes priority over performance, which leads to low damping ratios, and minimum pitching over bumps. Racecars in general run higher damping ratios, and have a much smaller concern for comfort,
leading to some racecars using higher front ride frequencies. The higher damping ratios will reduce the amount of oscillation resultant from
road bumps, in return reducing the need for a flat ride.
A higher front ride frequency in a racecar allows faster transient response at corner entry, less ride height variation on the front (the aerodynamics are usually more pitch sensitive on the front of the
car) and allows for better rear wheel traction (forrear wheel drive cars) on corner exit. The ride frequency split should be chosen based
on which is more important on the car you are racing, the track surface, the speed, pitch sensitivity, etc.
Once the ride frequencies are chosen, the spring rate needed can be determined from the motion ratio of the suspension, sprung mass supported by each wheel, and the desired ride frequency.
Starting with the basic equation from physics, relating natural frequency, spring rate, and mass:
Solving for spring rate, and applying to a suspension to calculate spring rate from a chosen ride frequency, measured motion ratio, and mass: "
So I need to figure out ride frequency for the front and rear, sprung mass per corner, and motion ratio (wheel/spring travel). How would I get the motion ratio is that listed somewhere?
This is kind of confusing.
"The first step in choosing spring stiffness is to choose your desired ride frequencies, front and rear. A ride frequency is the undamped natural frequency of the body in ride. The higher the frequency, the stiffer the ride. So, this parameter can be viewed as normalized ride stiffness. Based on the application, there are ballpark numbers to consider.
0.5 - 1.5 Hz for passenger cars
1.5 - 2.0 Hz for sedan racecars and moderate downforce formula cars
3.0 - 5.0+ Hz for high downforce racecars
Lower frequencies produce a softer suspension with more mechanical grip, however the response will be slower in transient (what drivers report as “lack of support”). Higher frequencies create less suspension travel for a given track, allowing lower ride heights, and in turn, lowering the center of gravity. Ride frequencies front are rear are generally not the same, there are several theories to provide a baseline.
Higher Front Ride Frequency
The out of phase motion between front and rear vertical motion, caused by the time delay between when the front wheel and rear wheel hit the bump, is accentuated by the frequency difference. A result of the phase difference is pitching of the body. To reduce the pitch induced by hitting a bump, the rear needs to have a higher natural frequency to “catch up”
with the front. This notion is called producing a “flat ride”, meaning that the induced body pitch from road bumps is minimized.
Higher Rear Ride Frequency
For a given wheelbase and speed, a frequency split front to rear can be
calculated to minimize pitching of the body due to road bumps. A common split is 10 – 20% front to rear.
The above theory was originally developed for passenger cars, where comfort takes priority over performance, which leads to low damping ratios, and minimum pitching over bumps. Racecars in general run higher damping ratios, and have a much smaller concern for comfort,
leading to some racecars using higher front ride frequencies. The higher damping ratios will reduce the amount of oscillation resultant from
road bumps, in return reducing the need for a flat ride.
A higher front ride frequency in a racecar allows faster transient response at corner entry, less ride height variation on the front (the aerodynamics are usually more pitch sensitive on the front of the
car) and allows for better rear wheel traction (forrear wheel drive cars) on corner exit. The ride frequency split should be chosen based
on which is more important on the car you are racing, the track surface, the speed, pitch sensitivity, etc.
Once the ride frequencies are chosen, the spring rate needed can be determined from the motion ratio of the suspension, sprung mass supported by each wheel, and the desired ride frequency.
Starting with the basic equation from physics, relating natural frequency, spring rate, and mass:
Solving for spring rate, and applying to a suspension to calculate spring rate from a chosen ride frequency, measured motion ratio, and mass: "
So I need to figure out ride frequency for the front and rear, sprung mass per corner, and motion ratio (wheel/spring travel). How would I get the motion ratio is that listed somewhere?
This is kind of confusing.
A few spring rate reference points.
My zeal coils now are 12kg/mm front and 8 rear.
On zeal site for the xs model they list 12/8 for street and 14/10 for hard for our car.
Vill0 has 14/7 on his gutted track car.
From those numbers I am thinking 12-14 front and around 8 rear.
Anyone else have opinions?
My zeal coils now are 12kg/mm front and 8 rear.
On zeal site for the xs model they list 12/8 for street and 14/10 for hard for our car.
Vill0 has 14/7 on his gutted track car.
From those numbers I am thinking 12-14 front and around 8 rear.
Anyone else have opinions?
Last edited by brian6speed; May 28, 2013 at 08:06 PM.
I purchased and received my Racers Allview Mirror. It is made to mount to a roll cage. Here is a link to their website.
http://www.allviewmirror.com/
I needed to figure out a mounting solution since I don't have a roll cage. After holding the mirror up inside the car for a bit, I noticed these empty screw holes might work.
I went to home depot and bought some 3" corner brackets.
I drilled new mounting holes on the brackets that attach to the mirror. The reason I did this was to get the mirror more angled toward the driver side.
I had to widen the holes on the corner brackets and I also cut the end off of one side per bracket. Here are the brackets mounted to the mirror.
Here is the mirror mounted in the car. I still need to modify it some more. I want to move it up slightly and also need to angle it more to driver side as well.
The mirror is in the way of the sun visor that I have my radar detector and garage opener mounted on. I am gonna make a custom bracket mount for the radar detector next.
Need to decide what to do with oem mirror.
http://www.allviewmirror.com/
I needed to figure out a mounting solution since I don't have a roll cage. After holding the mirror up inside the car for a bit, I noticed these empty screw holes might work.
I went to home depot and bought some 3" corner brackets.
I drilled new mounting holes on the brackets that attach to the mirror. The reason I did this was to get the mirror more angled toward the driver side.
I had to widen the holes on the corner brackets and I also cut the end off of one side per bracket. Here are the brackets mounted to the mirror.
Here is the mirror mounted in the car. I still need to modify it some more. I want to move it up slightly and also need to angle it more to driver side as well.
The mirror is in the way of the sun visor that I have my radar detector and garage opener mounted on. I am gonna make a custom bracket mount for the radar detector next.
Need to decide what to do with oem mirror.
Last edited by brian6speed; May 30, 2013 at 01:18 PM.
I like that mirror
I noticed when cleaning my car and checking for rattles that my clear spoiler brake light's seal was leaking and the circuit board had gotten all wet and deformed.
I ended up buying a oem honda clear brake light this time instead of the generic one. They are harder to find since you can't just buy the light from honda without buying the whole spoiler for the goldwing 1800.
I ended up buying a oem honda clear brake light this time instead of the generic one. They are harder to find since you can't just buy the light from honda without buying the whole spoiler for the goldwing 1800.
The allview mirror is 17" long and convex so you pretty much see everything, even out the side windows. This mirror is much better than other convex mirrors that distort the image.
Allview has pictures on their website showing differences.
Last edited by brian6speed; Jun 1, 2013 at 07:36 AM.
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 49
Likes: 3
From: NJ
I did it for better visibility for backing up and changing lanes to the right lane. The reason I did it was the racing seat and my apr side mirrors. I can't really turn my body to check blind spot with a harness on, so I made all blind spots visible in the mirrors.
The allview mirror is 17" long and convex so you pretty much see everything, even out the side windows. This mirror is much better than other convex mirrors that distort the image.
Allview has pictures on their website showing differences.
The allview mirror is 17" long and convex so you pretty much see everything, even out the side windows. This mirror is much better than other convex mirrors that distort the image.
Allview has pictures on their website showing differences.
EDIT: I was on their website and noticed you got the racing mirror. Do you the dimensions on the Smart Clip mirror?
Last edited by SpinSisko; Jun 1, 2013 at 10:08 PM.
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 49
Likes: 3
From: NJ
I have to research before I post haha, I noticed you can just clip it on the OEM mirror, but do you think there would be to replace it? I feel like it would look more cleaner.
Brain, thanks one more time for trying out that Allview. I checked into those a while back, but just didn't wanna pull the plug on one of those. I was also worried about the Convex factor.
Also had an idea to mount it very similar to yours for my Accord. Thnx again.
Yes, The AMS Model 1750 has an Optional windshield mount with an epoxy kit. Dimensions are 17 x 2.
* I don't care for the clip on method myself...doesn't look clean.
Also had an idea to mount it very similar to yours for my Accord. Thnx again.
Yes, The AMS Model 1750 has an Optional windshield mount with an epoxy kit. Dimensions are 17 x 2.
* I don't care for the clip on method myself...doesn't look clean.
Last edited by WHEEELMAN; Jun 7, 2013 at 05:57 PM.
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 49
Likes: 3
From: NJ
Brain, thanks one more time for trying out that Allview. I checked into those a while back, but just didn't wanna pull the plug on one of those. I was also worried about the Convex factor.
Also had an idea to mount it very similar to yours for my Accord. Thnx again.
Yes, The AMS Model 1750 has an Optional windshield mount with an epoxy kit. Dimensions are 17 x 2.
* I don't care for the clip on method myself...doesn't look clean.
Also had an idea to mount it very similar to yours for my Accord. Thnx again.
Yes, The AMS Model 1750 has an Optional windshield mount with an epoxy kit. Dimensions are 17 x 2.
* I don't care for the clip on method myself...doesn't look clean.
Any idea of the weight of the rear passenger windows ?
I'm considering trying to swap the glass out for something lighter but,still keeep the oem frame so it looks oem from the outside.
I'm considering trying to swap the glass out for something lighter but,still keeep the oem frame so it looks oem from the outside.
Sorry for not replying sooner. I have been out of town for the last week. Got back yesterday from the national meet.
I do not know the weight. Removing glass from the frame might be a pain. I would probably just do what villo did and rivet down some lexan.
I do not know the weight. Removing glass from the frame might be a pain. I would probably just do what villo did and rivet down some lexan.
I thought I might as well finally post some pics here from the national meet. Most of these pictures are not mine and come directly from the national meet pic thread.
I think this was the best meet weekend out of the 3 years I have gone.
I didn't arrive till friday night around 11 pm so I missed the Friday activities.
Here are the cars that went to the go-carting event on Saturday. We all had a great time.
I am in the back go-cart in this pic.
Here is a pic on the top of the parking garage. This is from Saturday night when we went to dinner. My car is on the end.
Here are some shots from the meet on Sunday.
Here is the dealership. This has got to be the nicest looking acura dealer I have seen, especially the interior.
Here are some pics with my cl in them.
Here is what rajca's cl looks like now.
Here is Myles J32 turbo civic. He said it is pushing almost 500 hp and runs quarter in 11.XX seconds.
Me talking to myles.
Here I am representing the cl and bringing home some goodies.
Best Performance Award
[URL=http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/brian6speed/media/performanceawardpic_zps003d8623.jpg.html]
I also won a raffle for $100 towards acura oem parts.
Hanging out at the hotel pool after the meet on Sunday.
Some shots taken near the hotel. One is at the stop light, the others are rolling.
I think this was the best meet weekend out of the 3 years I have gone.
I didn't arrive till friday night around 11 pm so I missed the Friday activities.
Here are the cars that went to the go-carting event on Saturday. We all had a great time.
I am in the back go-cart in this pic.
Here is a pic on the top of the parking garage. This is from Saturday night when we went to dinner. My car is on the end.
Here are some shots from the meet on Sunday.
Here is the dealership. This has got to be the nicest looking acura dealer I have seen, especially the interior.
Here are some pics with my cl in them.
Here is what rajca's cl looks like now.
Here is Myles J32 turbo civic. He said it is pushing almost 500 hp and runs quarter in 11.XX seconds.
Me talking to myles.
Here I am representing the cl and bringing home some goodies.
Best Performance Award
[URL=http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/brian6speed/media/performanceawardpic_zps003d8623.jpg.html]
I also won a raffle for $100 towards acura oem parts.
Hanging out at the hotel pool after the meet on Sunday.
Some shots taken near the hotel. One is at the stop light, the others are rolling.
This is off-topic but I will post anyway.
A rossion Q1. First time I have seen one. Gotta love how he parks.
I passed a chicago porsche concours event on my way to fathers day lunch. I had to go back afterwards and have a look around.
They had a GT2 RS and a GT3 RS there.
Just in case you did not know this thing retails for $245,000.
A rossion Q1. First time I have seen one. Gotta love how he parks.
I passed a chicago porsche concours event on my way to fathers day lunch. I had to go back afterwards and have a look around.
They had a GT2 RS and a GT3 RS there.
Just in case you did not know this thing retails for $245,000.
