Uni -Chip Owners Only Discussion Thread......
#322
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by juice
Great News. I hope your new dyno shows good results. If so, I would feel comfortable telling Jack to send me one with your new map.
#324
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Originally Posted by juice
Great News. I hope your new dyno shows good results. If so, I would feel comfortable telling Jack to send me one with your new map. Being everyone has seen high A/F ratios, I see no reason why mine would not be the same. What do you think?
Tim
#325
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i installed the p&p harness and unichip module this monday. my initial impression is that the engine performance is slightly enhanced during partial throttle accel up to v-tech engagement. v-tech now is somewhat "seamless" with no burst of power.as before. at wot tires no longer "chirp" at 1-2 shift and i percieve an actual loss of power from 45k rpm to redline. im disappointed in the performance gain to date. i will concede additional time with this chip installed may change my perception. we'll see. i intend to call jack @ unichip to share my impressions with him. i am considering a trip to naperville, ill. tuner shop for a custom tune (mod incl. I/H only)
#329
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...molten mass of alum....oops, thought I was on the foundry forum.
Jack says that road tests show that the chip has given my engine an optimum 13-13.2 A/F ratio.
Dyno runs tomorrow. Do we want maximum dyno numbers or max street performance? Are they the same?
Jack says that road tests show that the chip has given my engine an optimum 13-13.2 A/F ratio.
Dyno runs tomorrow. Do we want maximum dyno numbers or max street performance? Are they the same?
#330
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Originally Posted by BC
...molten mass of alum....oops, thought I was on the foundry forum.
Jack says that road tests show that the chip has given my engine an optimum 13-13.2 A/F ratio.
Dyno runs tomorrow. Do we want maximum dyno numbers or max street performance? Are they the same?
Jack says that road tests show that the chip has given my engine an optimum 13-13.2 A/F ratio.
Dyno runs tomorrow. Do we want maximum dyno numbers or max street performance? Are they the same?
What, if any, or the gains?
#333
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
13.2 is perfect. I'm still a little higher than that, but my car made more power around 13.7 than it did at 13.2.
#334
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I've called Jack several times and haven't made much progress.. Has anyone else contacted him..?!? We need to push the issue here..
Steve already sacrificed his time and money for us, let's push a alittle harder..
Steve already sacrificed his time and money for us, let's push a alittle harder..
#335
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Originally Posted by Jonesi
I've called Jack several times and haven't made much progress.. Has anyone else contacted him..?!? We need to push the issue here..
Steve already sacrificed his time and money for us, let's push a alittle harder..
Steve already sacrificed his time and money for us, let's push a alittle harder..
#337
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Originally Posted by BC
Jack says that road tests show that the chip has given my engine an optimum 13-13.2 A/F ratio.
Dyno runs tomorrow. Do we want maximum dyno numbers or max street performance? Are they the same?
Dyno runs tomorrow. Do we want maximum dyno numbers or max street performance? Are they the same?
I think I will call Jack tomorrow to see whats going on with this updated map, I want it.
#338
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by blader
Was this on the same map that everyone got or the modified map that he sent to cody (I think it was him). Need more info!
I think I will call Jack tomorrow to see whats going on with this updated map, I want it.
I think I will call Jack tomorrow to see whats going on with this updated map, I want it.
I haven't been to the dyno but some of you guys have already and I'm sure you don't want to drop any more oney into this like Steve. I'd go to the dyno if it wasn't for consistent misfires.. But this updated map I doubt will help my car since I'm one of two that have misfires which shows my car is going to be different then others from the start..
We need to keep pushing for more answers/resolve on this before others drop more money into it.. All I can say is call him and forget the emails because that isn't getting us anywhere..
#340
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Originally Posted by darrinb
did u guys send you chips back to get em re-tuned.. we just send the chip and not the harness right???
TimR
#342
Revving at 9K...
Email from Jack:
Brian,
Can you please pass the following words on to the GB guys...
Hey guys, I wanted to update you with what's going on and what to expect in the
near future. Thanks to the couple of guys who've sent in the dyno runs and A/F traces;
they're helpful.
Some of the cars are leaner without the Unichip installed in them than the cars we
saw here and what we're looking at another car to see how it compares. We just got it
today, and it's just like the other cars we saw here previously. We're also looking at
how the stock ECU responds to water and air temperature both on the road and on the dyno.
Right now I've seen the dyno's for 3 cars running a bit lean and 3 other cars running
absolutely perfect, and I want to figure out why. The first guy who found his car too
lean on the dyno got it retuned and, despite a worse 60' time and higher temperatures,
turned the best trap speed he's done... because of the Unichip.
Bottom line, whether your car is lean or right on as it sits, the Unichip is
permitting us/your tuner to move the A/F ratio where ever we want it to go. It's doing
what we told it to do; it's just that some of your cars are leaner than we anticipated
from what we saw on the development vehicles in "stock" condition - i.e. before the
Unichip is even installed. We/your tuner has the ability to make the A/F ratio go
anywhere from about 8 all the way up to 18... that's not a problem. The issue is figuring
out why the cars in question are reacting the way they are and making a logical, correct
change to the map so the problem is fixed.
The car we looked at again today, a GB guy who got a pre-programmed kit just like
everybody else, had a 13.2 A/F ratio which is exactly where we wanted it to be... and
exactly like the other two cars we've used. Again, we don't know why the cars in question
are leaner in stock trim but that's the entire issue. When we pull the "correct" amount
of fuel for the car's we've seen which are 1 A/F point richer than the cars in question,
it's making the cars in question 1 A/F point too lean. Making those cars 1 A/F ratio
richer is simple, but isn't the issue, and we want to know why so we're making the correct
change the first time out.
We can make the change right now, but what everybody should really want is the
right change. We know what "numbers" to change to get the A/F to the desired point, but
I'd like to be able to see if there's a rhyme or reason to which cars should get which
maps rather than panicking. In the end, you'll all get the map/A/F you want (at no cost),
but let's take a couple of days and figure out why.
Thanks again for your purchase and early next week we'll be able to offer you a
revised map if you should get one or if you want one.
Thanks Brian.
Cheers,
Jack
Jack Friedman, General Manager
Unichip of North America
www.unichip.us
Toll free 1.866.643.7400
Local 1.503.6407465
Fax 1.503.214.6444
edited for spacing on the email.
Brian,
Can you please pass the following words on to the GB guys...
Hey guys, I wanted to update you with what's going on and what to expect in the
near future. Thanks to the couple of guys who've sent in the dyno runs and A/F traces;
they're helpful.
Some of the cars are leaner without the Unichip installed in them than the cars we
saw here and what we're looking at another car to see how it compares. We just got it
today, and it's just like the other cars we saw here previously. We're also looking at
how the stock ECU responds to water and air temperature both on the road and on the dyno.
Right now I've seen the dyno's for 3 cars running a bit lean and 3 other cars running
absolutely perfect, and I want to figure out why. The first guy who found his car too
lean on the dyno got it retuned and, despite a worse 60' time and higher temperatures,
turned the best trap speed he's done... because of the Unichip.
Bottom line, whether your car is lean or right on as it sits, the Unichip is
permitting us/your tuner to move the A/F ratio where ever we want it to go. It's doing
what we told it to do; it's just that some of your cars are leaner than we anticipated
from what we saw on the development vehicles in "stock" condition - i.e. before the
Unichip is even installed. We/your tuner has the ability to make the A/F ratio go
anywhere from about 8 all the way up to 18... that's not a problem. The issue is figuring
out why the cars in question are reacting the way they are and making a logical, correct
change to the map so the problem is fixed.
The car we looked at again today, a GB guy who got a pre-programmed kit just like
everybody else, had a 13.2 A/F ratio which is exactly where we wanted it to be... and
exactly like the other two cars we've used. Again, we don't know why the cars in question
are leaner in stock trim but that's the entire issue. When we pull the "correct" amount
of fuel for the car's we've seen which are 1 A/F point richer than the cars in question,
it's making the cars in question 1 A/F point too lean. Making those cars 1 A/F ratio
richer is simple, but isn't the issue, and we want to know why so we're making the correct
change the first time out.
We can make the change right now, but what everybody should really want is the
right change. We know what "numbers" to change to get the A/F to the desired point, but
I'd like to be able to see if there's a rhyme or reason to which cars should get which
maps rather than panicking. In the end, you'll all get the map/A/F you want (at no cost),
but let's take a couple of days and figure out why.
Thanks again for your purchase and early next week we'll be able to offer you a
revised map if you should get one or if you want one.
Thanks Brian.
Cheers,
Jack
Jack Friedman, General Manager
Unichip of North America
www.unichip.us
Toll free 1.866.643.7400
Local 1.503.6407465
Fax 1.503.214.6444
#343
Sweet as Gold
sweet deal man...yeah I'm tryin to not harass them w/ phonecalls and e-mails because I know theyre workin on it and i am paitient. Shit we waited like 4 months for this to come to reality...It's summer now when our cars allready run slower than normal so if they need to fine tune and diag to make me happy...then go ahead
#345
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Okay, so I'm curious as to everyone else's opinions here. I spent the $608 on the chip. Plus $135 for my initial dyno; this proved the UniChip was too lean. Then I paid $235 for the custom tune of the UniChip on my car. This brings the total very close to $1,000. When I look at it like that, this mod really isn't worth it. UniChip is only re-imbursing me $100 for my custom tune. In my opinion I should be full re-imbursed for the $235 it cost. Do you all feel the same?
#346
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by mrsteve
Okay, so I'm curious as to everyone else's opinions here. I spent the $608 on the chip. Plus $135 for my initial dyno; this proved the UniChip was too lean. Then I paid $235 for the custom tune of the UniChip on my car. This brings the total very close to $1,000. When I look at it like that, this mod really isn't worth it. UniChip is only re-imbursing me $100 for my custom tune. In my opinion I should be full re-imbursed for the $235 it cost. Do you all feel the same?
#347
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I understand the inital dyno is something I should pay for, I agree. But even if I sent the chip back to them, had them adjust it, I would need to get another dyno again to make sure what they did actually worked.
I see where you are coming from though.
I see where you are coming from though.
#348
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i talked to jack about that also steve, i was expectign them to pay for the custom tune, but he said only 100. but the nearest dealer is like 4 hrs from me so i am gonna send it back to him for the new map.
right now i spent 633 shipped for the chip and 100 for baseline and uni-chip pulls
right now i spent 633 shipped for the chip and 100 for baseline and uni-chip pulls
#349
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Hey guys, I'm the one with the modified unichip. Got to the dyno shop the morn' right when they opened and pulled around the corner and boom... entrance is blocked off, the parking lot filled with mustangs... damn car show, no dynos today. Told you guys I was getting a dyno today. Just wanted to keep you in the loop. I really wanted to get this info today to assist in the changes we need to our program. Oh well, gotta go do some stuff. Get off the computer and go enjoy your Sat.
TimR
TimR
#350
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by mrsteve
I understand the inital dyno is something I should pay for, I agree. But even if I sent the chip back to them, had them adjust it, I would need to get another dyno again to make sure what they did actually worked.
I see where you are coming from though.
I see where you are coming from though.
#351
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Originally Posted by typeR
no...you could goto the track...race a friend you always race ...other things like that...a dyno is not a very good measure of success of a mod
But it is a very good measure of A/F ratio which was the problem. Don't know how I could figure that out by going to the track.
#352
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by mrsteve
But it is a very good measure of A/F ratio which was the problem. Don't know how I could figure that out by going to the track.
#353
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by typeR
...a dyno is not a very good measure of success of a mod
wouldn't a mod that added power to the car show up on a dyno?
#354
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Originally Posted by typeR
no...you could goto the track...race a friend you always race ...other things like that...a dyno is not a very good measure of success of a mod
Huh, it is the epitome of determining the power added through a mod. Although racing can also help to see if there was a change. It is not a solid tool either. Traction issues, launch issue, not to mention changes in weather and how various cars react differently.
#355
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by mattg
explain
wouldn't a mod that added power to the car show up on a dyno?
wouldn't a mod that added power to the car show up on a dyno?
example: dougs dyno of the 3.5L upgrade I/H is about 10-12 hp over mikes dyno and 15 lb.ft. 2500$ + install most people that see the dyno say not worth it...however half-a-second faster in the 1/4 .5 faster than the fastest I/H CL-S 3/4's better than what i had previously done...2500 well spent ,but it was the track that determined that not the dyno...last point this has been echoed by hondata and RSX' with the flash the 10-12 hp bump from top to bottom is not felt by most because it's consistant yet the gains are there and the track shows it....regaurdless of the "feel" or the dyno
#356
Suzuka Master
Originally Posted by typeR
dyno is good for tuning IMO but not for determining the real world results of the mod...thats where the track comes in....
example: dougs dyno of the 3.5L upgrade I/H is about 10-12 hp over mikes dyno and 15 lb.ft. 2500$ + install most people that see the dyno say not worth it...however half-a-second faster in the 1/4 .5 faster than the fastest I/H CL-S 3/4's better than what i had previously done...2500 well spent ,but it was the track that determined that not the dyno...last point this has been echoed by hondata and RSX' with the flash the 10-12 hp bump from top to bottom is not felt by most because it's consistant yet the gains are there and the track shows it....regaurdless of the "feel" or the dyno
example: dougs dyno of the 3.5L upgrade I/H is about 10-12 hp over mikes dyno and 15 lb.ft. 2500$ + install most people that see the dyno say not worth it...however half-a-second faster in the 1/4 .5 faster than the fastest I/H CL-S 3/4's better than what i had previously done...2500 well spent ,but it was the track that determined that not the dyno...last point this has been echoed by hondata and RSX' with the flash the 10-12 hp bump from top to bottom is not felt by most because it's consistant yet the gains are there and the track shows it....regaurdless of the "feel" or the dyno
IOW, difference in: 'area under the curve' ....
#357
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by EricL
IOW, difference in: 'area under the curve' ....
#358
Suzuka Master
Originally Posted by typeR
point being dyno's dont always reveal the true measure of what effect the mod in question well benefit the car
I'd hope that would be clear...
OTOH, if you saw a relative difference and it was going downward, you shouldn't cheer unless you were going to predict that in some advanced model.
And, when you look at the area under the curve, depending on the gear, aero resistance, and other factors, you would need to weigh the gains in various parts of the curve against the resistance forces that are non-linear. Does that make sense? That's one of the reasons you can't data straight off the dyno. OTOH, if you don’t think that is existing F1 computer software solutions that will track dyno data back to track data within a few percent, you're smoking crack…
1. The drum is a fixed weight; the cars have different weights.
2. The rollers are not computing a drag force that is equal or equivalent to the "predicted" resistance that would be derived from aero, rolling, inertial, and other areas that would be seen in the real world.
3. Then, you have the issue of temperature, size of fans, and other issues.
4. Go have a look over at the Dinan site and check out the monster blowers and the changes he gets in HP/TQ from changing the air flow rates...
Someone could probably right a 1000-page paper on all of this...
It's a tool... So's the track...
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
http://dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=9
#359
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Picked up my car today from Jack. Looked at graphs and got an hour tutorial on A/F ratios, sampling rates, butt dynos, etc. Looks like the gains were at about 3k to 4k rpms and 5.5k to redline. 8 to 12 max gains in hp and tq each area. Only 2 or 3 ponies gain in between. This is with a custom map.
On my car, power started falling off gradually after 6400 rpm. I didn't get a printout as I wouldn't know how to display it anyway.
My impressions? Jack is genuine, the gains are there, and some of our cars react surprisingly differently to one map.
I'm out, sieze ya.
On my car, power started falling off gradually after 6400 rpm. I didn't get a printout as I wouldn't know how to display it anyway.
My impressions? Jack is genuine, the gains are there, and some of our cars react surprisingly differently to one map.
I'm out, sieze ya.
#360
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So you say 8-12 max gains, is this a "peak" gain or just the gains throughout the powerband? What were your gains at peak? Meaning if the max whp you put down w/o the chip was 220, what was the max whp w/ the chip?