IDon'tKnow

Ah that makes more sense; .008", not the .08" you had said. That just sounded like WAY too much. The depth of the quench pad is only .03". You would be decking the valve seats @ .08".

For every ten thousandths you shave you should lose ~1.5cc's of chamber volume. That's not exact, I'm going off of the memory that my numbers for shaving 30 thousandths resulting in 4.? Cc's.

IDon'tKnow

EDIT: 1.58cc's per .01" removed is the exact number for an 89mm bore.

You can get a basic idea of chamber volume by assume the piston doesn't alter the volume at all:
10.5:1 compression on a 3.2 liter motor; 3210/10.5=305.7cc chamber volume. The just flip that around:
305.7-(1.58x6)= 295.92cc chamber volume (we are doing all six cyl in one equation here)

So

3210/295.92= 10.85:1 compression ratio.

So, for every ten thousandths you mill off you will net a .35:1 increase in compression ratio.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Do you think it would be fine for me to have the ten thousands taken off.
by the numbers I would want at least 15 thousands

CH46ESeaKnight

I don't know a whole lot about these heads, it sounds like you do. But are you sure the.... oh wait, are you saying all 6 chambers = 305.7 cc? Not each chamber right? Never mind, that makes sence now.

So to get each cylinder you would have to divide the 3210 by 6 right?
Are the pistons flat top or do they have valve reliefs?

IDon'tKnow

The guy with the KRINZ EG running nitrous told me he had shaved his head; can't remember if he said it was twenty or ten thousandths that he removed.

I asked him about valve clearance and he couldn't give me any hard numbers; just said there was "tons of room in there".

Correction to previous math; doesn't account for chamber volume in the overall displacement. Actuall increase in CR per ten thousandths would be ~.31:1.

.015 sounds safe to me but you should talk to someone who has actually milled the head and clayed it to be sure. I'm not sure if I'm going to have to machine the valve pockets with the .03" I'm going to do. Only clay and a mock assembly will tell.

IDon'tKnow

There are valve reliefs and a very minor dome on the TLs pistons: just guessing by visual inpection, it seems that they offset one another. I would give my numbers ~2cc margin of error to account for that; not very significant in terms of ratio since it's coming out of both numbers.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

If I shave off 15 .Will I have to have the runners shaved too so that will manifold will still line up or would that be to little to be conserned with that at all ?

CH46ESeaKnight

When I had my Tahoe SBC heads shaved the shop said nothing about having to do the manifold. I was more concerned about the pushrods, but they said the hyrdaulic lifters would take up the slack. Not that you have to worry about pushrods. I don't think there is enough material being removed to have to worry about it. I would think the gaskets will still seal.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

normal speaking there is enoung slack and such in the bolts to compensate for any milling down (and as long as you don't mill beyond what honda allows, you should be fine), and since you want to port match anyways, that should not really matter anyways

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Injectors bases done ,matched to head and intake.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Manifold just about done.
horns threw,front section,and also one of my interior section mods are done.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

I did not take any before pics to compare what I removed but, this is one of the innterior mods going on.
I knocked off some big conner chunk and blended them to a smoother,wider mouth opening in front of the butterflys.
Don't mind all the dust.I still have to do I bunch more things now that I've started looking at the inside.







You can see farther back in the next 2 pics I started Working those areas too

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Started the plenums

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Manifold is good enough for me.

typeR

head gasket is three layers copper right ? goto one !

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

I don't think ripping apart gaskets and using them would be a good idea.
Even though I have not looked at them yet to confirm if it would even be possible.
You do have me thinking to get some custom copper one's made.
I just need to know the thickness of the factory one's and if they are measured before or after they are tighten.
Because I can get some in these measurements that I've seen custom made.
.022,.032,.040,.043,.054,.063,.070, .086, .093, and .125 inches.

Then I could look into price's.
It might actually be safer to try the gasket route.
That way block or heads can stay factory till something is needed to be milled.

GLO type r

typeR

seperating the gasket is a pretty comon practice

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Really.., No leaks,And how many thousands per layer ?
Since it's common practice then it would have a common answer to how thick each piece is and how much each piece will raise compression.
till I see people, not just one who have it figured out to actual numbers then it's definitly not common practice.
I have to ask for what engines are it common practice ? I haven't heard of anyone here that has done this to their j32.Not saying theirs not but....
If so point them out to me because I assume they would know what I need to know.
I have heard of people removing the center layer but,why f around.
Last thing I want to do is drop a rebuilt engine in to have leaking head gaskets.

typeR

how many people here have bumped compression ? im talking about common practice in the industry ... talk to a head shop ...

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

B and D series guys do it regularly. Many other cars do it as well.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

if so i would imagine head studs would make the practice cake walk (in that you can slide each layer over them as needed)

CH46ESeaKnight

Parker, any ideas of what your target comp ratio will be yet?

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

I've talk to a few friends and they seam to think I could get to 11.5 to 1 on premium with out issues.
And I want to bore the block as big as possible.Whatever that may be.
89.5-90mm not sure. bored or bored and sleeved
And I also still want to be able to run nitrous too. Although I know I won't be able to run no monster shot pushing the displacement of just a bore.
But ,I talked to my girl the other day and told her for 1000 I could buy what I would need to buy what I would need to slap it all together and end up wanting more power after or I could I could drop alot of money make big power that I won't kill and It would take a year to get up all the funds for all parts to make the engine serious.
She said if your going to do it,do it right.
So I could probally blow a G to slap it together or go all out ,the ball is in my court and she behind me.
Maybe she's just buttering me up since she's wanting a new car.
Trying to dig up some dough so I can have one out front for her on x mas.
One hand washes the other.
Just need to handle x mas before buying $1000 this and $1000 that.

"I will end up with the badest P if I continue on with this car, No doubt in my mind".

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

I would only do a slightly over-sized bore at MAX (just enough to clean up the cylinder walls), otherwise they start to get a little weaker, and there is less sealing surface for the head gasket, which may cause it to blow easier

and as far as sleeveing it, you may get stronger walls for boring it, but you still have the same issue with the head gasket though (and i am thinking between each of the cylinders blowing out first, then it blowing out into the coolant jackets)



yeah i talked to Paul about it a couple of months ago, for me possibly in the future

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Here's what the service manual says about their service limits.
How far do you think they can go beyond their limits ?

Piston Diameter
Standard
(New)
3.5029-3.5033 (88.975-88.985)
Service
Limit
3.5026 (88.965)
Oversize Piston Diameter
.25 3.5128-3.15132 (89.225-89.235)
.50 3.5226-3.5230 (89.475-89.485)

Application Specification - In. (mm)

Cylinder Bore Size
Standard
(New)
.3.5039-3.5045 (89-89.015)
Service
Limit
3.5065 (89.065)
Oversize
.25 3.5138-3.5144 (89.250-89.265)
.50 3.5236-3.5242 (89.500-89.515)
Reboring
Limit
.02 (.5)
Bore Taper
Limit

(1)

measurement.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

i would keep it to one of the "oversize" limits, cause how big can you go, as big as you want, is it going to last and not be poping head gaskets everyweek idk (especially since you want to keep the nitrous and put in higher compression)


so 89.5 if you want to push it, but i would go with the 89.25 first, then if you have any issues down the line, you can still oversize it again, and not have to toss the block away (or resleeve it)

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Does anyone know where I can find measurements for 2002 odyssey .50 pistons or part number 13040-P8F-A03 measurements?

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

for the most part they should be exactly the same as the STD sized ones, just oversized in the bore by 0.50

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Ok, what the measurement on the standered one's ?
So they could be refered for custom made copy's. I think since .50 is about as far as I should go it would be good base numbers to start with,Then have someone figure the rest of the #'s to get to my wanted compression out of the pistons.
I'm want to be able to put price's on piece's.

I ordered a crank pulley tool the other day and was impatient today so I tryied losening the crank pulley nut today.
I knew most likely I want going to bend the flex plate.
Got roasted the deceided I was going to try it anyway.
Bent the flex plate,big surprise.
so I drained the lower end,fliped,pulled the pan,oil pick up,splash.
I'm just dying just to get the lower end striped,I guess.

I also cleaned and started the manifold cover that I think is going to be both painted and polished.
Just not sure if it's going to be only polished where I started and the rest painted black or
the the 2 flats where the screws go threw polished too and the rest purple.So that it will have purple accents around the side and it would look like it would have a purple badge area that I could rep some sort of zex logo there.

I'm still going to do the purple front valve cover too.Maybe polished rear.
This things is going to look sweet for sure.
I was already eye balling the oil pan.

CH46ESeaKnight

UMMMMM?

Do you guys mean .05? I really don't think you are going to be able to do
.50, that's half an inch.

I made the same mistake when I said .80 was not much to shave a head. I was thinking .08 but typed .80. It happens.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

This is what they are.
J35A4 - 2002 – ODYSSEY PISTON SET (OS .50) 13040-P8F-A03
^ (over sized .50 )

CH46ESeaKnight

I think that is a typo.

Think about it, look at the distance between any two of your cylinders. If you take .50 from each cylinder that would be removing 1.0 as in 1 inch of material. Is there even an inch between each cylinder? I doubt it.

Something is not adding up.

Even .0050 Fifty thousandths would be a bit to take. I dont know the block so maybe it will take .005

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

I'm sure those measurement are not relating to inches.
Maybe half a mm.
Hondaunlimited and all the other say the same.
and actually the odyssey's pistons are the only one's available in.50
all the other are only oversized to .25

CH46ESeaKnight

Ok, My bad, I think that is .5mm! Sorry. SBC (Small Block Chevy) guy here!

SPoolinspOON

iTrader: (5)

.50mm

CH46ESeaKnight

I looked up your part number and saw all the messurments for the J stuff. Took me a few seconds. .5mm is .019. That sounds better.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

I did see that too.
Been searching high and low.

CH46ESeaKnight

I took the link out cause i did not realize it was to another forum until I went back to read more.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Anyone know connecting rod bolts size.
10,12mm 12 point ?

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

more then likely the 12mm of your choices, ten is kinda small for that type of bolt under that stress (i am assuming you want to know the bolt's head sized really then)(but it may even be a 14mm idk)