pic was to show that they do not all line up

 

and civic, i kinda see what you mean by the control arm pivoting and such from the two links, and kinda acting like the center link in the watts linkage mentioned above, but i still think the geometry needs to be on, and not necessitate that though................... but it will still not be perfect though, cause the middle between the two rod links on the control is still not perfectly inline between the control arms inner pivot and the ball joint itself, but then there is also another pivot point on there that might cause some more issues, is the lower shock mount itself............ so i think once you get the shock on (without the spring) and then cycle the suspension, you proably will still get binding though, (any rubber bushings will help hide the binding though, since they can give)...................or you might actualluy not get binding at all, but instead a inconsistent ride height, kinda hard to explain, so like as that suspension travels the mounting point for the shock will be lowered and raised, ever so slightly, but i think it might cause issues (but then again the factory does it too, but not as much though) trying to dial in your shocks, but you probably we be able to compensate for that once you learn the settings and such and what they do with your setup......... so only way i see this working though is having ALL the bushings and such to be spherical ends though (also giving that inner one more clearence and such), so the suspension is not trying to twist rubber bushings all weird and such...............or the easy way would be for you rajca to try out those mckinney bearings for us instead :P

 

Take both of your pointer fingers and have the point at each other. Now move them up and down pretending that the LCA is in between the two tips. See how the tips move apart when you go up and down? That would cause stressing and binding.

Now, if you angle your fingers and bend them, they only move apart at the most extreme positions.

Point is, you dont want them perfectly aligned. That cause binding.

 

^^^ Grrrrr, no edit button.

We posted at the same time. Im not a big fan of the rear stabilizer bars as they will compromise handling, but Im all for a front crossmember alternative. I may give those spherical bushings from the Prelude a try.

 

u gonna try them anytime soon?

 

also that front link will have to fully pivot on both ends to prevent the binding, so that would make the stock radius arm out of the question too

 

and actually civic, that rear arm might be an advantage on your 90 civic, due to the control arm not be fully controlled and pivoting as it freely wants too (cause with it freely pivoting it might actually in essence make your shocks kinda act like they are on the weak side, with bouncyness over very small bumps, it should not be depending on rubber bushings and such to keep it striaght/aligned)

 

thinking about it more , with the twin arm setup, it might also exagerate a wheel hope (castor changes) issue due to the suspension have strange fore aft movement compared to the stock arm (so like an S shape kinda compared to a simple arc with the stock arm), but if you are willing to develop it, it might actually be to your advantage though with being able to get a variable castor change (part of the reason why Audi [and mitsibishi on the 2g eclispe] uses their 2 arm setup), compared to a linear change (but it will probably take quite a bit of time though and playing around with it to even fully ultilize it though

 

The rods on my Civic have spherical bushings on both ends.

Im a bit confused by that

 

first commet was more for rajca...... then the second comment, think about how on the stock arm it is rigidly mounted to the comtrol arm with two bolts, it controls the rotation of the control arm itself now, where now it does not have that with a spherical link there, so only the weight of the car and the rubber bushing are keeping that control arm from pivoting freely fully

 

I see what you mean now. In the case of the CL, I agree. However, with my Civic I have ES polyurethane bushings so twisting is nearly non-existent.

 

The twisting of the LCA shouldn't be a big deal in the CL though since the twisting stress isnt being put on one bushing. Youve got the inboard bushing on the subframe, the bushing for the strut fork, and then the ball joint. You also have the sway bar. So all those working in conjunction keep the LCA in check - for the most part.

 

for the most part lol, but yeah there would still be room for unwanted movement (and remember the pivot for the sway bar is also offset slighty too so it would twist it even more; but i did not even think about that one, and it would have quite a bit of affect also), and i see it as the more precise the suspension moves the better it is........................... then the civic yes the urethane bushings basically get rid of any possible play, but there is still going to be some, but not nearly as much as rubber bushings though...................... but yeah i still think the replacement bearing from mckinney would be the best bet, while also being the simpliest, and at the same time have the biggest effect on controlling wheel hop

 

btw the ball joint will basically do nothing to help prevent the twisting, maybe a little but it is more the bushings though that will do it

 

edit button is back

 

maybe not

 

also what happens when you try accelerating, the control arm is pushing agianst the rod ends and if it is not perfectly striaght push that will also cause that control arm to try and twist even more, so you might actually want to check you urethane bushings to indeed make sure that they have not egg shaped or something.... and i think having dual rod ends might actually be hurting you, compared to say just a urethane radius rod bushing (yes you get additional resistence to suspension travel) but that might actually be easily offset by not having any of that unwanted twisting of the control arm

 

My CL puts down more torque then my Civic does horsepower so I dont think the crossmember I have on it is hurting me

Surprisingly, for such an old suspension setup, the Civic can hook up so much better then the CL does. Sure theres wheel spin, but theres no hop. With the stock front crossmember - thats a different story.

 

rajca looking good man cant wait to see it all done.

 

more bad news,
friday heading back home from jury duty, i dipped down into a ditch. wast big or anything so i didnt slow down. well 5ft from the "small" ditch i saw that the middle of the ditch is raised up. so at 45mph my underbrace bar hit it. THIS TIME instead of my bar bending the mounts bent, but i also took some asphalt with me

gonna make stronger mounts next
see in the photo below how the front of teh bar is angled down and teh back of teh bar is up higher, but the bar is straight. it did hit the flex pipe just slightly. no serious damage

 

wtf, maybe that bar does truely hang too low lol

 

its just over an inch from teh ground. with my 1" subframe spacers, it hangs really low with out the car being really low

 

even then it does look like it could go up another inch, for better clearence (but depends on your motor mounts though, and how much the motor actually moves), then also the flexpipe seems to be right where you want to go up also, so if that was gone/replaced/modified you could go up even further

 

btw, where the hell is your loud ass exhaust???, i see a stock cat on there, and don't give me the bullshit it is your tl either, i see red paint there, next to the heatshild

 

i put my cat back on. i had a small exhaust leak and no gasket, had rasp that was annoying me, so i went back to cat. which sucks bc up top on the rpm it feels slow.

any higher and the bar would hit the flex pipe

 

reson for the modifing the flexpipe comment,; maybe put a shorter flexpipe in there, especially since you already got poly filled mount s and such, so such a large flexpipe should not be needed

 

dont have polly filled mounts. put everything on hold until i figure out this law shit. plus, a 3" down pipe is gonna be running right were the flex pipe is gonna be. so im back where we started. i might just take out the sub frame spacers and give the hood more pop

 

go twin turbo and only have to run like a 2.5 pipe twice lol

 

but i got the manifold and pipes done for a single turbo. no turning back now

 

won't take that much work to make for it to work for twin

 

buy civics and go twin turbo lol

 

Damn man, you just cant catch a break....But I gotta say, nice work. Especially with all of your custom fab work. Honestly, I am learning a lot from listening to you guys discuss things like the suspension geometry and what not.
Keep your head up and keep motoring forward.

 

2010 has started off good, but lately it has sucked for me. kinda hitting an all time low. trying to move forward but having more set back than steps forward

 

you will get through it though


btw also on those brackets, did they really rust that fast from like a week???

 

I think you should just ditch the bar at this point

 

i know i will.

not a week. second owner. went through 3 chicago winters, (one with me), so it got abused.

the bar is gonna stay. gonna take out the subframe spacers

 

i was going to say, thats alot of rust for a week lol
anyways you did not paint it again or something???


then are those the factory sized holes in the brackets, quite along gated

 

i didnt paint it bc same thing was gonna happen. factory holes.

ill be making stronger brackets and painting them black. but they will eventually rust, but only surface rust.

 

i would get rid of those bolts while you are at it too, less pivot points

 

i have been thinking of making one solid bar. still thinking about it