fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

OK well, yeah I'm going to have to closely inspect my rear mount when I can.
This morning I started my car & got the usual bang on startup. Then I heard this little deep bang bang sound. I pulled out of my driveway & was stopped at the light at my complex, At idle the entire car was humming/banging VERY loud. Sounded like ironically a big V8 engine at the track with no exhaust. I revved to about 1500rpm & it went away, then as it idled back to normal again the same sound.
I was like WTF!
So after about 10 minutes of driving it went away & was the normal vibration.
I have no idea what that was about. It was raining all night, & it was 90 yesterday & then cooled off to 70 last night, it was 73 this morning.
I'm thinking the material used is too soft & expands & contracts with weather temps?
Not sure...

Ruff are they doing anything with the 6MT mounts? Are these changes they making going to transfer over to those?

Billy Sacco

My car is starting to vibrate really really bad. Now it does it just sitting in park not moving. I think I am going back to OEM and will sell these once I get the corrected mounts.

RUF87

Yes, the 1st gen bushings are effected by temps.

And yes, anyone who got 1st gen bushings (mounts) will want to swap them out. Unfortunately . . you'll want to wait until we get the formulation right.

Ruf

RUF87

Hang in there . . . I know it's bad, but I decided to live with mine as it is until we get it fixed . . . the OEM rear mount is such a pain to install and remove.

Ruf

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Well that just sucks!
I wonder if anything is getting more beat up/stressed that may break because of these problems?

Billy Sacco

That is one of my main concerns. I may have to stay with this car until the wheels fall off so I don't want to do any long term damage. My vibration is getting pretty damn bad. Seems to have been getting progressively worse over the last month or so yesterday I sat in my car listening to tunes and was shocked at how bad the car was just vibrating under my feet. I won't blame the mounts completely until I go back to stock but I am starting to worry a bit.

RUF87

Sounds like yours have taken it to the next level, where the bushings have 'donuted', which it what mine did. I would have to put it in neutral to keep from rattling my teeth . .

Anyway, I'm calling them today and will mention this and suggest that they send out some bushing inserts for cases like this until the problem is solved.

Ruf

RUF87

Okay, I spoke to Tim about those of us where the vibrations have become a major problem/concern, and can't wait until we get mounts that will work.

Tim said to contact him directly, and that the mounts would need to be sent in as the current '2nd gen' design is not interchangeable with the 1st batch. He did say that they would turn them around in 1 day, but I'm assuming that would depend on what time of day they get them.

If you don't have the number, it's 714-524-5246.

Anyway, I wish it were easier, but this is the best for now.

In the meantime, I'm still working with them to get a final product that we'll be happy with . . . and trouble free.

Ruf

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

I'll have to work something out with him then. I can not just take the mount off & leave my car undriveable.

Mike

mark, can you please answer my question?

RUF87

Sorry, I've noodled on it, but haven't had time to put a chart together, so here's a quick and dirty one.

Scale 0 = Best / 10 = Worst
0 = OEM Mounts
1 = Busted OEM Mounts
2 = IM 1st gen Red Front & Side with OEM Rear - A/C off in neutral
3 = IM 1st gen Red Front & Side with OEM Rear - A/C on in neutral
3 = IM 2nd gen Red all around - A/C off in neutral
4 = IM 1st gen Red Front & Side with OEM Rear - A/C on and in drive
4 = IM 2nd gen Red all around - A/C off in drive
5 = IM 1st gen Red all around - A/C off in neutral
5 = IM 2nd gen Red all around - A/C on in drive
5 = IM Black front & rear - A/C off in neutral
6 = IM 1st gen all around - A/C off in drive
6 = IM Black front & rear - A/C on in drive
7 = IM 1st gen all around - A/C on in drive
8 = IM 1st gen with bad bushings A/C off in neutral
9 = IM 1st gen with bad bushings A/C off in drive
10 = IM 1st gen with bad bushings - A/C on in drive

I'll have to reread this tomorrow as it may need tweaking, but it'll give you some idea.

Ruf

SkillOBskilled

iTrader: (1)

This is terrible.

I was under the impression that these mounts were going to be fine for the 6MT folks, so I went ahead and installed the last weekend. My car is still not drivable for other reasons, but I quite upset to find out that this is the case.

Just so I am clear here, the mounts, even for 6speeds are causing major vibration issues making the car almost undrivable?

TheSentinel

Really they are that bad?? how do they look installed? most 6MTs say its descent not OEM but livable?

RUF87

Okay, the 2nd gen bushings I had on for a few short days have been received by IM and were sent to the lab for analysis. It's expected that I'll get an update late next week. Once a course of action is decided on, I expect to have a 3rd gen bushing on its way to me sometime the week of 9/22 and in my hand before the end of the month. The reason I expect it to take this long is that we have to wait on the lab turnaround, a decision, new formulation mounts must be made and finally shipped.

As for the black street-strip bushings, they are holding up well. There have been no changes in the vibrations, good or bad. I still like them and would keep them in if the vibrations in gear with A/C were no worse than with the car in neutral and A/C off.

Ruf

Mike

can you please post a vid with the car in neutral/AC of and another w/the car in gear w/AC on?

RUF87

Sure, I'll try and do that today as Hurricane Ike shut down all of our activities for the weekend. Which is sort of a nice thing.

Ruf

RUF87

Oh, one more thing. I went to fill up on gas last night as they were projecting the price at the pump to jump .50 to .80+ cents. There wasn't much traffic and had a chance to jump on it a couple of times. In 1st gear from right about 30mph I punched it and it briefly broke the tires loose and when I hit second it produced a very hard quick chirp . . . with more torque steer than I've ever felt. Note, the humidity was very high with temps at 82 and a heat index of 89, so high humidity. Can't wait for cooler weather . . it's going to run like a beast.

What does this all mean? Basically that I'm getting a lot more power to the wheels, and quicker as well. That's what a nice set of performance motor mounts should do for you.

Ruf

RUF87

Revised Vibration Comparison Chart: 9.13.08

Scale 0 = Best / 10 = Worst
0 = No Vibrations felt (OEM Mounts)
1 = Barely detectable (Busted OEM Mounts)
2 = Very mild - don't notice unless feeling for it (IM 1st gen Red Front & Side with OEM Rear - A/C off in neutral)
2+ = Very mild - a little more detectable, but not an issue (IM 1st gen Red Front & Side with OEM Rear - A/C on in neutral)
3 = Mild vibrations are felt - this level would be acceptable to me if the mounts produced the performance feel of the black street-strip bushings. (IM 2nd gen Red all around - A/C off in neutral)
4 = Mild - but too much for me unless I was all about performance. (IM 1st gen Red Front & Side with OEM Rear - A/C on and in drive)
4 = Mild - but too much for me unless I was all about performance. (IM 2nd gen Red all around - A/C off in drive)
5 = Moderate - not acceptable unless you are a max performance and these were the strip only mounts. (IM 1st gen Red all around - A/C off in neutral)
5 = Moderate - not acceptable unless you are a max performance and these were the strip only mounts. (IM 2nd gen Red all around - A/C on in drive)
5 = Moderate - not acceptable unless you are a max performance and these were the strip only mounts. (IM Black front & rear - A/C off in neutral)
5+ = Moderately strong - not acceptable unless you are a max performance and these were the strip only mounts. (IM Black front & rear - A/C on in drive)
6 = Strong - not acceptable not even for strip/track only use. (IM 1st gen all around - A/C off in drive)
7 = Strong - not acceptable, not even for strip/track only use. (IM 1st gen all around - A/C on in drive)
8 = Extreme - not acceptable vibrates worse and a massage chair. (IM 1st gen with bad bushings A/C off in neutral)
9 = Extreme - not acceptable shakes like a NASCAR or Dragster. (IM 1st gen with bad bushings A/C off in drive)
10 = Ridiculous - Houston, we're ready for liftoff. (IM 1st gen with bad bushings - A/C on in drive)

Note: I would say that folks with daily driver and are tired of having to replace OEM or don't want to go with OEM mounts and don't mind a little mild vibrations, the 2+ is the maximum level I would look at.

Ruf

CivicB18B1

iTrader: (2)

ok my OEM mounts are broken since this afternoon...

I would like to buy the innovative mounts.

My question Is.... AFTER 19 pages of discussion and bla bla bla....

Does the mounts for the CLS 6 spd from innovative are trouble-free? If yes, i will buy them.. if not im gonna buy a oem set.

Or maybe wait a little bit to give a chance to innovative to do more R&D about the problem?

Thanks...

TheSentinel

IMHO I believe that since your a MT (i take it) you should be fine with the current set up. Although some waiting wouldn't hurt.

Update: I have the redesigned front mount for the AT version. It does feel different in a good way vibrations seem to be dampened. I'm hopefully going to install the rear later today. I'll update with initial impressions as well as ongoing impressions of this update.

RUF87

CivicB18B1 - I'd wait a bit as well. At least until we see what changes they plan on making to the 2nd gen bushings. The 2nd gens I sent back are in the lab now and we hope to have an update by end of week.

Sentinel - on your redesigned front mount, do you have the 2nd gen bushings or what??

Ruf

RUF87

More results:

I've tried the 30mph punch a few more times and each time it broke the tires loose . . . more of a quick chirp.

I also got one chance to do a quick hard launch to see how much the wheel hop issue was improved. Well, I experienced no wheel hop, and spinned the tires nicely. Note - I only had one chance to do this and won't finalize the findings until I get some runs in at the track . . . which unfortunately won't be until late February 09 due to a booked schedule there.

That said, power transfer felt very smooth, quick and controlled, so I've very pleased with that . . . so far.

Ruf

TheSentinel

They look to be 2nd gen.

CivicB18B1

iTrader: (2)

thanks for the answers guys

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Is that with the black all around?

RUF87

Yes, that was with the black (street-strip) bushings on the front and rear. The sides were still the base red street bushings.

I'm actually hoping that a combination of black up front and red in the rear will provide me with less vibrations while still giving me the performance I'm looking for.

Ruf

TheSentinel

Update: drove back from my mechanic's and it feels much better. Instead of a karate chop massage on my back its now a nice stress relieving massage. Lets put it this way if i put a half bottle of water on my steering column [before] i would have seen the water be shaken up almost as if making chocolate milk (would have been a good way to make my protein drinks), [now] i would see slight ripples like the wind blowing on a lake surface.
These are initial impression and i'll let you all know how it feels as the weeks go by.

yunginTL

any other updates, i think ima go back to stock mounts

TheSentinel

So yeah update: After about 2 weeks and a trip to san jose and back (600+ miles). These re-designed mounts feel muuuuch better. The only excessive vibrations i feel are because i think i need to seafoam my engine. Give it a couple more weeks till i can take a look at them and see if theres any deformities in the bushing after a month. Hopefully some of you can sit tight.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

I need to call Tim today. The MASSIVE VIBRATIONS when the car is cold is driving me NUTS!. It's fine after about 10 minutes of driving. But the car sounds & feels like a jet plane at idle until then.
The mounts are secured, nothing loose, & they look ok. I didn't see any pancakeing.
My mounts were fine for months & then just started this.

Are you guys just getting new rears, or all mounts?

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Make sure too not to overtorque the bolts. I know some of the 3rd gen guys were commenting on the tq of the bolts and increased vibration with more tq. I think they settled on just under 40 fts lb of tq and using loctite.

rp_guy

http://www.swapshopracing.com/index1...FSJIagodV3ZwEA

$310 including shipping for US orders on a complete kit

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

I have a new material bushing coming for my rear. Tim wasn't all that helpful. If this doesn't do it for me they are coming off my car.
How hard was bushing replacement? Does the rear mount have to come off? Do I need a press to get the bushing out & the new one in?

Do the TL guys have these problems?

rp_guy

just the rear?

distortedolskool

iTrader: (1)

i sit and wait for more to unfold.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

I think only the rear is the problem on my car.

Mike

i bought a new oem for the rear a few months ago and now i'm getting loud banging from the front at start up now.
i emailed tim on friday and called him twice today but haven't heard back yet.

Billy Sacco

Same hear. Its to the point where I want to go back to OEM to make sure something else isn't wrong with my car.

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Please everyone call Tim & let him know. I called & once he heard I had a 6 speed he played dumb & said he never heard of any problems with the 6mt mounts.
They all seem to have a problem.

Maybe for our cars we need the harder black mounts because of the engine design, weight & power & the red bushings just can not hold up.

TheSentinel

Tim and Innovative could be waiting on the result of the adjustments made to my set-up. as of now with about 1K+ miles they seem to be holding up id rather go through a month of solid driving and take a look at them before i recommend them to all. Innovative could have the same stance as i, instead of having everybody constantly returning parts they could set-up a method of mass exchange once a true breakthrough develops.
Hang tight guys kinda bogged down this week with appointments and work.