ostrich

Oh my goodness, that red colour is HOT! I am not sure about the styling (or the angle from which this is taken) but the red colour does make it very hot.

Too bad, we cannot get it. Red is hot, the rest is NOT.

Now, Weather, just your mention of Verano made me throw up a little bit in my mouth... LOL

And these "upgraded" wheels are AWFUL. The SH-AWD 18" wheels are so much better.

docboy

Yup, and it doesn't take a lot to ruin a car either.

Acura should learn from Kia and poach some designers from Audi. That would be a gutsy and fruitful move.

Rocket_man

Like any car people will see into it what they want. No matter the car or the forum you will see the inevitable 'oh it looks just like [fill in the blank]' only to be followed by .. 'you're crazy, it looks nothing like that, it looks like [blank]' It's all subjective.

Personally I like the looks of the TLX. I don't like some of the wheel choices, but it's not going to be styling that prevents me from buying this car. On that particular car those wheels are accessory wheels and not stock wheels. So like Colin suggested, this is probably a corporate demo, not a demo for potential buyers. Seems like the few pre-production cars they have are making the rounds.

I've spent a lot of time on the Mini forums since this is going to be my wife's next car. Some of you may know they just began selling the F56 model of the Mini that is replacing the last generation R56. If you looked at pictures side by side you'd be hard pressed to see any difference at all. The vast majority of people will not even be able to tell you there is any difference. Yet there are a good number of R56 owners who say the new F56 looks horrible and how they have just ruined the Mini. Yet in the first month of production they sold nearly 25,000 worldwide.

I notice a lot of TL owners bag on the TLX. The TL is 'exciting' and 'bold' and the TLX is 'bland' and 'boring.' Honestly I just don't get it. When I look at these two cars side by side they are far more similar than different. Straight on from the front, if it weren't for the new headlights most people would not be able to tell the difference. The new headlights look better to me than the standard 'bland and boring' HIDs. From the side, the TLX has more styling lines than the TL. The TL is honestly what most people would call 'slab sided.' I don't like the slightly larger wheel gap on the TLX but I've never been obsessive about wheel gap anyway. They differ most from the rear. The TL has a pinched in narrow trunk opening and standard tail lights. The TLX has (to me) a more appealing trunk line and nicer LED tail lights. No exhaust on the TLX but I'm okay with that. But my point is that the TLX is evolutionary from the TL. It was never going to be revolutionary. If people thought it was going to be revolutionary than your expectations were just too high. It was meant to sit between the ILX and RLX and it is hard to argue that it doesn't do that.

I know like R56 owners there are TL owners that feel their car is the best styling out there and the new version of the car is crap. But I expect to hear 6 years from now that 5G TLX owners will be saying how the 6G is dull and boring and doesn't give them that excitement their cars still do. If you love your car great. I don't think it was Acura's intention to convince you to sell a 2 year old car and buy a TLX. But the TLX was never going to be a revolution of the TL. It is an evolution and as such it is what it is and has a lot in common with the TL. Hard for me to see how one is so exciting and the other is so bad. They both look good, my preference is the TLX.

brutustlx

The car looks good, but there is no way to really take much from a bad photo. First you cannot really see the side character line, the wheels are terrible (upgrade my arse). The lighting and blurriness don't help. What stands out best is the front end and that is easily better then the current TL. I still love that hunkered down look of the rear of the current TL.

Now why does this particular dealership get to have this car, any chance it makes the rounds in some other parts of the country.

fsttyms1

And produce what the designers design and not have them dumb it down.

bouncer07

they need to OPEN that front grill more!

keith7120

I suppose the part you don't get is that most people on this forum are enthusiast of the TL. Those that love the 4G will naturally have critical complaints about the TLX because its not as bold/polarizing as the 4G. Most of us will look at the TLX as a revolution of TL regardless of how Acura wants us to view it. I mean really, they added the X to the end of TL. In addition, they also added an X to the RL so the revolution will become natural to most folk instead of an evolution. In that particular photo, most will think that car is bland and the wheels make it hard to see any beauty the car might hold. I agree with you those that are critical on any newer model most will say "they ruined it" as I have said the same one the 3g and the 4g in which I ended owning both. However, on this particular photo which is an natural, un-glossed, photo, this car looks BLAND as hell. I have not ruled out the TLX as my next but damn, that photo does not help its case.

Acura_Dude

Nice post Rocket_man. I agree I like how the TLX is shaping up, though I wished it looked more like the prototype, but that was my fault for halfway expecting the production TLX to come just like that. Not a deal breaker though. Overall it'll sell pretty well and it'll more than likely grow on the rest of us here on the forums. I love the looks of the 2G and 3G TLs. Hated the looks of the 4G until the MMC and actually got to see one in person. It has grown on me as well. There's plenty of threads floating around how each generation was worse than the previous generation. I read a bunch of old threads when the 3G TL debuted and they were mostly negative. All it takes is someone to mod the aesthetics of a car (new wheels, a-spec kit, etc) and post on the forum and then the true potential of the car is shown. I've seen countless TL's on here whether 2G, 3G, and 4G that look amazing with some coilovers, nice wheels, etc. I'm also not expecting everyone on here to mod their car, but it'll take some time to see some modded TLX's on the forum in a couple of years or so.

I do agree that this should have been the 4G TL. I like how it reminds me of the 3G TL. It's a nice clean looking car. It'll stand out with the Jewel Eyes just like the RLX and MDX (i've seen both and they definitely have some road presence). I may not like the design of the new wheels that are on the new models, but it won't bother the average buyer at all.

saturno_v

I own a 4G TL and I love it but I do recognize a handsome more traditional, less polarizing design like the gorgeous Mazda 6 for example.....so I do not criticize the TLX because is "traditional"...simply because it has the charm of a Camry....is not an ugly car by any means...just boring and derivative, taste too much of already seen, it is a safe bet from Acura...but maybe too safe.


I never automatically reject any new design as some sort of knee-jerk reaction either...for example for the 3G I instantly recognized it as more handsome and gorgeous compared to the 2G.

I still believe it will not sell that well, significantly trailing competitors, especially if driving dynamics fail to dramatically impress.

docboy

Agreed.

Though I believe the TLX will sell better than the 4G TL, it will probably draw its buyers from an older crowd a la Buick's.

randomRon82

Well it has to.... For those desperately wanting an Acura sedan for whatever reason, they will no longer have a TSX option, so of course the TLX will sell more than the 4G TL because it's absorbing sales for both the TSX and TL. Which is another thing. In my opinion, this TLX should have been the redesigned TSX, for those wanting an option for a more subtle family sedan. I think it would have been great as a TSX. Acura should have then revolutionized the 5G TL for those wanting something with more sport and more flavor. They would then have MORE OPTIONS. But instead in typical Acura fashion, they are yet again decreasing their product line... and therefore decreasing their options.

The new TSX would have been comparable to (for example) what Lexus has with the ES... then maybe the TLX would have been comparable to the GS... or maybe even the IS. They have the IS and ES which are similar in pricing (the IS is more sporty while the ES is more luxury/family oriented). Why couldn't Acura do that? More options for different segments. Why continue to eliminate options?

I don't understand Acura.

docboy

/\

At this point frustration, confusion, and Acura come wrapped together in a value package.

randomRon82

Lol, oooh that's where the value is! Got it

randomRon82

No one has posted this, so I'm posting. Acura posted this last week on many of its streams. I know several of you have mentioned this already.... but that wheel gap just looks ODD! wtf?

Acura_Dude

You have a very good point. But Acura's sedans were pretty close in size and would end up cannabalizing each other. The TL was on par with the RL at one point. There really was no point in paying more for an RL when you could get the same powertrain (actually the 3.7 in the TL had 5HP more), and similar features. Same situation with the TL and TSX when you could get the V6 in in the TSX. You pretty much had a fwd TL with or w/o tech pkg with a similar price. Didn't make sense at all to me. I have no clue what the point of the ILX is. It was around the same price as the TSX yet smaller. There was too much overlap between the vehicles. If Acura DID continue with 4 sedans like other manufacturers have, the company should have had enough distinction between each sedan. If the RL(X) is Acura's flagship, it should get the flagship treatment.

I like how Lexus pulled it off. You have the IS and GS (both AWD/RWD) but clearly aimed at different demographics AND different sizes. The LS is also for a different demographic (similar to the RLX imo) and the ES is based off of the camry and is FWD but very nice. Toyota did a good job differentiating the two brands from each other.

I've seen countless BMWs and Audis that look similar in terms of design language but are geared towards different demographics, yet have also pulled off the 4 sedan deal without cannabilaztion [have to check the sales figures again]. Honda should put more of a difference between its two brands.

saturno_v

Exactly, Acura utter stupidity....the RL and TL were identical in size based on the US specs Accord so they ended up trying to defend the RL sales (which did not go anywhere anyway) decontenting the TL in terms of amenities, gadgets and some finishing touches.

So the TL could not truly compete head to head (options and engines) with cars of its size (BMW 5 Series, Audi A6, Infiniti M), ending up running against the smaller sport luxury sedan (A4, 3 Series, C Class) in price......which attracts a different crowd.

The "5 Series size at 3 Series price" value proposition did not work because most people in these segments (midsize luxury sedan) do not shop based on compromise or value.

The polarizing look, the lack of advertisement (I maybe saw only one commercial on TV about the TL) a mediocre automatic transmission and the lack of a halo version (like a Type S or Type R) to make the ability of the SH-AWD system truly shine and serve as advertisement did the rest.

The TSX was handicapped with the other asinine decision of not making a SH-AWD version so it ended in no man land, not being able to properly compete in the smaller luxury sedan segment.


When you try to make 3 sedans from only one platform (the Accord, the US specs Accord is the same platform just with a slightly longer wheelbase) this is what happens.

The right decision, if they did not want to spend the money to develop a new platform, would have been to kill the RL for good (sales wise was a dog already, dead in the water), move the TL upmarket with a turbocharged Type S or whatever version and offer a SH-AWD version on the TSX....too simple for the eggheads at Acura.....they know better than the market.

saturno_v

Very good point...it may sell decently because it replaces two sedans, but mark my words, it will be miles behind the segment sales leaders....and I'm not talking the blockbuster 3 Series, just even cars behind it like the A4, the ATS or the Q50....

Colin

Wait a minute! IMO, this is poppycock and revisionist history. The TL was never 'held back' to protect the RL. The TL launched with more power than the RL and a better feature set.

Because the two car introductions were staggered, it makes sense that there could be overlap before the RL was refreshed. The problem was that the RL didn't get it's refresh with the V8 and RWD chassis that was rumored to be in the works for '09-'10. This RL was scrapped when AHM decided the economy didn't warrant such a car and they went back to the drawing board for a FWD RLX. And this created the terrible product overlap we endured for that latter portion of the RLs long service life.

keith7120

Agreed! I saw a Honda Accord, I think an older model the other day from a slight distance and then when I got closer, it was an RLX. SMH.

jwong77

If my memory serves me correctly, the same exact thing happened at the end of the 1G RL's life and the 2G TL-S beating it significantly in power. 260 vs 224? It seems to be a Acura thing, allowing the paper specs of the flagship to be overshadowed by the TL.

Colin

LOL, in an ass-backwards way, it's good marketing for the TL... hmmm....

randomRon82

The TL does have LED taillights... two rows of them, the TLX only has one row.

In my opinion the rear of the current TL looks much better/ is more aggressive than what we've seen of this TLX.... situation. I quite enjoy the pinched trunk lid, I like the chrome bar, and the chrome exhaust tips. The TLX has zero styling in the back. Additionally, if you're going to have rear turn signals that are incandescent, they need to be amber (which the current TL has).. The TLX will have RED incandescent rear turn signals and that will look plain cheap and outdated. If I get this... thing, I'm going to be embarrassed to use my turn signals. lol... red incandescent turn signals on a mid level luxury car in the years 2015/2016/2017. Just, no

I do agree with you on the headlights though, that's the main thing that's drawing me in... the current TL's DRLs are just plain nasty. I'm fine with the HID's though.

saturno_v

No my friend, this is not poppycock or revisionist history...it is the truth.....when the 4G TL arrived at the end of 2008 the RL was already 4 years old and there was not replacement on the horizon, Acura already decided of not going ahead with a RWD V8 flagship sedan, you do not design a car like that from scratch in one year....so yes in terms of luxury features the TL was held back....no electrical steering wheel adjustment for example where even the Infiniti G had one, no active cruise control, no parking sensors, no cooled seats (for the 09-11 MY) less luxurious materials and finishing for the interiors.
The RL is quieter, it had wood trim, Active Noise Cancelation not present in the TL, power folding mirrors, more electric adjustment for the seats, rear electric sunshade and it got the 6 speed transmission before the TL.
I'm pretty sure there is even more that does not come immediately to mind at the moment.
The availability of these features are considered nowadays a given in a larger midsize luxury car.
Sit in a TL and in a RL and you will immediately notice a more upscale cabin in the RL.....the fact they had the same power output does not mean anything, horsepower is not everything in a luxury sedan.

Historically the RL had always had 3-4 inches more of wheelbase compared to the TL, not in this case, 4G TL and 2G RL share the same wheelbase.

No other luxury car brand has 2 identically sized and powered sedans, smart Acura did and it ended screwing things up.

When the TL arrived, since Acura already decided that it was not going to build a more upscale successor, it should have killed the RL which was already dead in the water in terms of sales, Acura knew it had a loser in its hands. It should have given chances of success to its brand new model giving it all the tools needed to compete, there was no point for the RL to stick around, the public did not like it. Evidently Acura did not get the message.

Colin

You don't design a RL replacement in one year. You also don't design the '09 TL in year. Both cars were undergoing concurrent development, and the TL was supposed to be the 'middle' car with the V8 RL a clearly larger more expensive car. When the economy tanked and the RL replacement was cancelled, the TL debuted on schedule and was left out to dry as the de facto top of the line.

Acura didn't design the 4G TL to 'protect' the then current RL. It was allowed to have what it needed since the plan was for a better NEW RL that would restore the pecking order. So whether the V8 RL was cancelled a few months before or a few month after the TL debut, the fact remains there was a replacement planned but it never showed. As you said, you can't make a car in a year, both were in the works at the same time.

jwong77

Lol way to go Honda!

I fully expect the TLX's paper specs to outdo the RLX at somepoint in its lifetime too. Well, if you can't sell the RLX might as well make the TLX as appealing as possible.

saturno_v

No Colin sorry but I do not agree at all....after 4 years a replacement car for the RL should have been already in very advanced development stage, probably already in some road test stage.... so Acura "decided" to cancel the RL replacement because.....it had developed exactly nothing or next to nothing to replace the RL after 4 years....you do not throw away a project already well underway with hardware on the road.

Acura decided to bail out on the RWD RL replacement well before 2008-2009.

I do agree that when the 4G development started probably and I repeat, probably the RWD RL replacement plan was still in the cooking stove, but, again, I suspect they did cut the cord years before the official announcement...the bad economy was a convenient excuse for them to announce it.

I did not say that the TL was designed to protect the RL...it was de-contented (or not up-contented if you prefer) to protect the RL flagship, a model that deserved to be killed off after you realize that the public did not like it a bit.

Once Acura decided on no mas RL RWD replacement, in my opinion it should have killed the current RL (the public did not want it anyway so why insist??) introduce the then new 4G TL positioned more upscale (luxury features, NVH refimenent, fit and finish) replacing in full the RL (size and engines were the same)...and then add a SH-AWD version for the TSX.


Finally, many people point the finger at the supposedly bad TL sales...true it did not repeat the successful sales exploit of the 3G TL but actually it did sell decently.....for example the TL sold way more than the highly praised Audi A6 of the same size.

jwong77

How do you know this to be true? Was there announcement or some source for this statement?

MuGen7Modulo

It's just a random pic. The angle and bright light from the back it does not help.
TLX will do great, hopefully like MDX.

saturno_v

Logic reasoning.....companies work on model replacement sometimes even before the current model is introduced....

Again, after 4 years there should have been already mule test on the road of the fabled RWD RL replacement and engines running.....I suspect that plan never really even left the drawing board well before the 4G TL was introduced.

Colin

Do you remember the V10 Front Mid Engined NSX Concept? This was cancelled while the ELS system was being tuned. This was at the 11th hour, but before the dies and tooling were contracted to manufacture the car. Unfortunately, the V8 RL went with it since they would have shared some components (very likely the chassis) to make both projects cost effective. I know this from speaking with some factory folks off the record. Now, I can't 'prove' it to you but I assure you I'm not making a leap of faith here.

saturno_v

At this point both me and you are speculating, however I find very hard to believe that the let's call it "RL development team" rolled its thumbs for 4 years and did not have already a replacement in advanced development stages....no prototype concept, no test mule, no engine, not even a rendering....nothing.

I have no idea how a mid engine sport car chassis could serve as a basis for a luxury RWD sedan....you may use some component but you have a ton of work to do..

Possible?? I guess yes but not plausible in my book...if after 4 years they did not have nothing on the road, how long a RL replacement would have taken?? 8 years?? 9?? Any way you look at it, it is not a pretty picture for Acura....

Fact is at the 4G introduction they did not have nothing concrete in their hand to replace the RL which already bombed in sales...it would not have taken that long to re-position the TL, refining it and adding features.

Colin

I don't want to appear overly contentious but you are speculating. I think you are also missing the part where the NSX replacement was going to be front mid engine. This is why I specifically said FRONT mid engine, where the engine is in front of the driver but between the wheelbase.

This would have been the backbone for the RL replacement
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5K2InLAyGj...+Concept+3.jpg

This would have been the NSX replacement, front mid-engined.
http://image.motortrend.com/f/future..._side_view.jpg

Both of these vehicles would have used a longitudinal engine mounting with rear wheel drive. It was rumored at the time that the drivetrains were being tested in an S2000 "mule" with a long wheelbase.
http://7tune.prodd.sg/wp-content/upl...07/06/nsx3.jpg

Having said all of this, I believe that the current RLX and future NSX are going to share a lot of componentry. Obviously, they can't use the same chassis but they could conceivably use shared components on each of the front and rear subframes. (There is a precedent for turning a front-wheel-drive car into a mid engine rear wheel drive vehicle. Fiat X/19 and Toyota MR2 come to mind)

Anyway, this is why I'm saying there was a plan in place for both RL and NSX replacements that were supposed to debut in 2009 or 2010. When those plans changed, they were forced to go back to the drawing board and here we are. 2014 and still no RLX Hybrid or NSX (which will share componentry). Not a coincidence that it is four years past the original introduction date. Going back to what we said earlier about "you can't develop a car in a year".

saturno_v

Colin, I believe that the Acura Advanced Sedan concept was just a wild style exercise (a really far fetched one) with no mechanical innards whatsoever, this is what Car And Driver wrote about it

While other companies explore alternative powertrains and colorful tires, this is Acura's vision of the future. The goal with this car, according to the head of Acura's Advanced Design Studio, Dave Marek, was to create an ultra-luxury sedan to compete with Bentley and Maybach in the year 2020.


http://www.caranddriver.com/news/acu...ept-auto-shows

Very little relationship, according to the creators of this, with a potential RL replacement, if anything maybe it offered only some styling cues about future products.

Again, I find hard to believe that if they really pulled the plug in 2009-2010 on the project they did not have anything concrete on their hands.

You said it yourself...rumored this rumored that....rumors indeed...no pics, no test mules, not a prototype, not a detailed concept or even a detailed rendering.

Even if I want to believe that they really decided to cut short the project around that time, considering what they had in their hands (basically nothing except few bit and pieces) we would have had the fabled RWD RL replacement only now......

Let's compare this with the development timeline of the new Hyundai Genesis....older model arrived on the market at the end of 2008 as 2009 model (same as the 4G TL)

At the end of 2012 a very detailed concept/prototype with fully fledged interiors introduce the new style language, the HCD-14 where you can pick several design cues of the new generation Genesis.



Test mules more or less in final form start to be surprised on the roads around the world beginning in very early 2013 including interior shots.




The new Genesis is not based on the old platform...it is an entirely new one and they concurrently developed a new AWD system and a new gearbox.


Sorry but too much smoke and mirrors from Acura....

KeithL

saturno_v,
I agree with some of what you say and showing the Genesis as an example, but one has to remember the differences. Hyundai is is making an full fledged assault on the luxury segment and aiming at the Germans. Acura invented their segment has stumbled along and lost its vision. Hyundai has a clear vision and is executing on it and is trying to prove something. Now that Acura has a clear separation of leadership from Honda one would hope they will regroup and determine what their vision is. I look at Acura as the hobby of Honda up until now, where Toyota and Nissan have taken things more seriously and separated the management of their luxury divisions a long time ago and Infiniti is being given even more autonomy lately. Acura has built some very good cars and people that seek out that quality or come form Honda tend to gravitate to Acura. That alone is not enough to sustain Acura going forward as the Germans and Hyundai/Kia are taking aim at the $30-$50K price range and the competition is fierce. If Acura did not have the strength in the RDX/MDX I honestly think Honda may have considered scrapping them a few years back once the RL faded and 4G tanked.

fsttyms1

Now this is the kind of "poopycock" thinking that Acura has been doing. They have mentioned MANY times the Economy wouldnt warrant higher HP and such YET Every other manufacturer has kept the direction and advanced, and even increased HP and have been doing just fine. Acura just keeps coming up with excuses for blame for their own misdirection. RLX, yea blame that car on the economy too

fsttyms1

And there in lies the problem. IF Hyundai has this vision and has set forth on it (in a very timely manner with a very direct line of sight i might add). Acura has had MORE than enough time to produce a line of vehicles that didnt infringe upon or overlap the next model up, yet they continue to do so. They have blamed the Economy, which is BS. Other manufacturers have been succeeding with what Acura claims the Economy doesnt support. Others have created NEW vehicles during said Economy and havent had problems. WTF have the higher ups at Honda/Acura been doing. They are exactly what you said. LOST, and i dont think this recent "separation" is going to help especially when they are producing the vehicles (cars) that they are. Are people expected to "wait" until this new leadership gets out the new models under their control?

ray-ban

A lot of people end up modding their cars anyways so who cares if it looks boring. The 4G was disappointing when it came out but I've seen some very well modified versions that changed my mind. Someone will throw some rims and springs on the TLX and you will all be wanting one. Saw it with the 4G, then it grew on everyone. This will too. I can see a lot of potential with this car. The prototype in red which I'm sure we've all seen by now looks damn hot to me. A type s or aspec version would definitely be wise.

Really it's all a matter of personal opinion. Give it time

keith7120

http://jalopnik.com/5065969/honda-ce...-get-v8-engine

keith7120

http://jalopnik.com/5065969/honda-ce...-get-v8-engine

randomRon82

Damn, look at those comments even from 6 yrs ago... perhaps there's no hope after all.