I don't think I've ever been so physically tired. Just did a full Zaino job on my car. This is what I did;

1) Washed car just with some water and pulled it mostly into the garage.
2) Clay bared the part in the garage, including the roof (step ladder so I didn't lean on the paint), with the claybar and Z7 + water solution in a spray bottle.
3) Turned car around and backed into the garage to keep the other part out of the sun while I clay bared it.
4) Pulled the car out of the garaged and rinsed it off with dish washing soap.
5) Dryed the whole car completely.
6) Mixed Z5 with ZFX (2 ounces) but only ended up using one ounce. Anyway, I applied a thin coat of that onto the car (just an ounce) and let it haze, buffed it off.
7) Z6 gloss enhancer.
8) Mixed Z2 with ZFX (2 ounces) and applied a 1 oz coat to the car, let it haze, buffed it off.
8) Z6 gloss enhancer.
9) Used the remaing ounce of Z2 and added another coat, let it haze, buffed it off.
10) Z6 gloss enhancer.
11) Got out my Stoner Invisible Glass and cleaned all the widnows and mirrors.
12) Got a sponge and used the Zaino tire shine on my tires, which worked pretty good. I think I like the armorall better since its easier and shines more. Anyway, I applied that to all my tires.
13) Took the remaining Z7 + water mixture from the clay baring and used it to scrub my wheels. Front wheels obviously were much more dirty so I used a rough brush to loosen up all the dirt and then wiped it away. Didn't do an amazing job, but the wheels are clean.
14) Went to Wendy's and got a cheeseburger at 3 PM, first meal of the day.

What a tiring day, but the car looks great and feels so smooth and slippery, I love it. For those of you wondering about the interior, I did that yesterday after work. Went to the gas station and used the $1 per 5 min vaccum since my friend with his car vaccum wasn't around. Ended up spending 2 bucks and vaccumed the whole interior out. When I got back, I tried Zaino Leather Soft on one seat but decided I really didn't need it since the seats weren't dirty. So, I conditioned everything with Zaino Leather in a Bottle... seats, armrests, etc. Looks and smells great!

I'll try to get some pics by the end of the weekend. My digital camera is broken and I haven't had a chance to bring it to Olympus for repairs yet (they're right on the island). Gonna borrow a friend's tomorrow with a tripod.

Anyway, and in conclusion, Zaino rules.

By the way, I didn't wait any time in between buffing the polish off, using the gloss enhancer, and then putting another coat of polish on, even though the Zaino 101 instructions on these forums say to do so. FYI, I got great results, the wait is unnecissary.

C'mon I know you all love my story. I was wondering if my comment above is going to cause problems (meaning insufficient protection). The car looks good but I want it to stay good, you know?

pics please i want to see ssm after the zaino process

I am not sure....but did you wax the car at the end? I am about to do the same thing to my car but I live in Miami, FL and it has been raining here everyday and HOT is a understandment. .....

When r we going to get some pics...?

I took some pics last night but they came out shitty. There were nighttime shots with long exposure but couldn't find the tripod. And no, I didn't wax the car. I just put 3 coats of Zaino on and will be adding another this weekend because its so easy. Zaino builds coats so there is no need to wax.

dish washing soap is a no no. heard it and read it many times over.

YES ! - it's a no no - your paint, your trim your tires - these are all things that contain oils - Dawn is meant to break down grease, fat and oils and remove them - Dish washing liquid will dry out your paint, trim, tires - Keep it in the kitchen and get a car wash soap. If you need to remove product from a car, then a good cleaner like AIO or Zaino's (I think they make a pre-cleaner) or Meg's Deep Crystal Step 1 - will remove the product off your car.

Agreed with the dawn wash. I've done a few dawn washes without any probs, so don't worry. These days I use dawn to clean my applicators, pads and towels.
AIO should be a good base for Zaino. I know, I know, that Sal doesn't recommend anything, but a lot of people are finding this combo working very well.

That sounds like alot of work but the results are worthit. I'm thinking of using Zaino on my SSM w/ bodykit, wing spoiler. Does the clay bar really work,or not really? I would like to know, but car looks great.

Clay bar is a very important step. Here's a great article on Clay

HEy i was wondering if anyone knew which dawn to use? I heard the blue one, but is it dawn ultra or dawn regular. both are blue and "original"

Actually if you're going to start from scratch, clay, wash, and wax your car, and your want the BEST and most EVEN coat you can get, you have to wash with Dawn.

MasterTL, I don't think it matters. Any dishwashing soap will take all the wax off and let you start clean. I used some other dishwashing soap, it was yellow and lemony.

You don't need the dishwashing liquid - seriously it's not good for the paint, trim and wheels - if you going to clay and polish you will be taking off any product that is on the car anyway.

Actually, Dawn is recommended by name in the application instructions on the Zaino web site.

Quote: "I would definitely recommend you remove the wax buildup on your paint. Just use Liquid Dawn (hand dishwashing liquid) as a car wash. It has a high alkaline content which cuts right thru carnauba wax, paraffin, silicone oils, etc. This will get your paint finish squeeky clean and wax free."

Here is the link to the instructions I am referring to:
Zaino Application



GaleForce,

Nicely done. Being in Florida, I can't imagine the buckets of sweat I would be dripping after a daytime effort like that. I too use a garage, and I have changed my habits to do the outdoor stuff (like the dawn wash) at dusk, if possible. Then I pull into the garage and do the rest under artificial lighting by night. Its much cooler, but I usually wake up to find I missed a spot or two when I see the car for the first time in the daytime sun.

and it's still wrong - what do you think is in your trim? silicone oils, tires - oils - paint? oils....

just because Sal tells you to do it does not make it right - skip the dawn and use a car wash and a polish like AIO if you need to prep for zaino.

I wouldn't use AIO as a cleaner. Even though it does have cleaning properties it also has a sealant in it, hence All-in-One. If you were unable to get all of the contminents off with the first application, you would be sealing the rest of them in with the sealant. If there is need for a cleaning/prep of the surface. Do it with a strict cleaner, or a cleaner polish. Take DACP for example, it doesn't have and sealants or waxes so it will only remove fine scratches and then polish the surface. If there is need from more than one application, then you can do so. If you were using the AIO you have the one shot, after the first application the car is sealed, there is no-way you will be able to clean the dirt/marks from under the layer of sealant..

Not to knock the AIO, I LOVE THE STUFF!!!! I just use it as my second step once the surface is cleaned and prepped, then follow with SG and then some carnuba like natty's, P21S or Meguar's #16 which is actually not sold in Canada anymore, well it is, but no more is allowed to be shipped over the border, so what's in Canada now is he last that there will be. It's combustable, so it can no longer travel over the border. Luckly I stocked up, my buddy had picked up the last 3 cases of it from Meguiars Canada and I got half his order. Odd it is a really good product, but it is like putting candle wax on your car, it is hard as hell to take off but it does a near perfect finish.

well I agree if you should clay first to get rid of the surface contaminents, and DACP if you need to address any swirl marks or small marring - but you don't get one shot with AIO. True it leaves behind a small amount of acrylic selant, but AIO will remove AIO, so will any chemical cleaner like Meg's Deep Crystal step one or Vanilla Moose. If you Clay first, and the paint is in good conditon you can go right to AIO. I know people who stop there and swear by it. Heck you can use DACP and it will remove AIO - it's not like Krazy Glue

I think Sal would be a credible source considering he is not only a professional, he is a specialist. I emailed him several times, and he has recommended the blue original dawn which was why I asked people here the question originally. While I do not know groebuck's credentials, as of now, I am prone to believe someone who has been in the business for decades and making their own line of the best damn products I've ever seen

Seriously. Anyone here who says not to use Dawn has 0 credibility. Who am I going to listen to? Someone who tells me it messes the paint up or someone who makes the best car care products in the world? I would hope the seller and manufacturer of the best car care stuff knows what he is talking about. Likewise, I am sure you are basing your information off of something, but you're being way too "safe." Its like saying Diet Coke will cause cancer. If you wash your car once with Dawn to get right down to the clearcoat, it will be fine. You won't fuck your car up and you'll end up with a better shine and smoothness had you not used it. Similarly, unless you are hooked up to an IV of nutrisweet or whatever it is, you won't get cancer. I agree, washing your car with Dawn is not a good idea, especially not regularly, however if you know what your doing and you have a logical reason for doing it, then do it.

That being said, don't wash your car with Dawn unless you're building a fresh coat of wax or hopefully Zaino. After that, build on top, don't wash it off again.

I'm not going to argure the merits of Zaino being the best products or not (but I can get a list of 6 or 7 companies who would argue that one for me), and if you want to wash your car in Clorox, hey be my guest...but I'm 100% correct in my statements.

:sqntfawk:

If Dawn or Chlorox saw that, they would sue you. Dawn does not contain any bleach so therefore it is nothing like Chlorox. Chlorox does not contain anti-grease shit so it is definetly not Dawn. It doesnt matter how many companies you can get to discredit Zaino because it is natural that they would be in competition. I can list 100+ companies that will say Zaino sucks simply because they want to sell their products. Explain to me why exactly is Dawn bad for the car or the clear coat and I will at least give you the respect of being a member on this board. Dont tell me you are 100% without having some sort of warrant. If you had some experience like GaleForce think you did, you should tell us. As of right now, I am not giving you the benefit of the doubt

Dawn is meant to break down grease and oils. Let's start with the paint. Your paint has nurtrative oils in it. Using products like a glaze help add those oils back in making the paint look wet. Removing those oils makes paint look flat and dry. Your trim. Your trim (both external and internal) is rubber with oils in it to keep it soft and pliable as well as silicone used to seal it. Removing those oils will dry out the rubber and possibly compromise the silicone. Your tires contain an antioxident to prevent them from drying, cracking and fading. If you have ever used a tire cleaner and seen what looked like dark brown gunk coming from it, that's what that is. All of these things are affected by products meant to breakdown grease and oils (like dawn). Dawn is great for your dishes but not for your car. The other comment about getting down to the clear coat for smoothness is not correct. Dawn won't remove embedded contaminents that clay would. If you want the best surface to apply Zaino to (and don't get me wrong Zaino is great product line - but like I said I can argue it being the best) You should wash your car with a car wash soap, clay your car then apply a chemical cleaner like AIO or Meguiar's Deep Crystal Step 1 (aio will leave behind a small amount of acrylic that the Zaino will bond to the Deep Crystal leaves behind nothing). Dawn may break down grease and oils but put a candle in the sink. What happens to it? Nothing. Dawn does not break down wax.

p.s. I never said Dawn has Clorox in it - I said if you want to was your car in Colorox be my guest (as in I don't really care what you want to wash your car with..)

if you need a little visual proof of my skill set check out -

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88437

Bravo groebuck !!! Great write up on the paint and oils.
Steering away from UPP ? How do you like the FMJ ?

I'm still gonig to listen to what Zaino says, not some random forum poster. I am pretty sure Sal has much more experience than you. Are you manufacturing and selling the best (yes, its the best, all of the reviews say it is, including those huge wax tests) car care products in the world? Didn't think so.

Your advice vs Sals? That is a pretty easy choice for me.

YEs listen to Sal. I did listen to him and this is the result;

http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80672

Yep, this nigga, joganjani, here....... he is the MASTER when it comes to washing your fuckin' ride.... I only listen to the guy that can make Nighthawk Black Pearl look like chrome....

Dawn IS bad for the paint and shit, but your not using it on an everday basis, your only using it to remove all waxes and polishes... so no harm done... now who the hell is using dawn on their tires and rims??? that fool is just stupid.... :fingerfawk:


JoganJani


We are mere pions compared to your infinite wisdom.....

First of all define "nurtrative" or better yet, explain "nurtrative oils."

Zaino/Meg makes your car shine. For most waxes/polymers they prevent/protect the car from oils and minerals. Explain nurtrative oils because either you misspelled the word or they are some secret car specialist lingo I've never heard of. I checked the dictionary, no results. Checked google, two results. Nothing about cars.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...8&q=nurtrative

Never said we'd use Dawn on the internal Trim. We are not stupid.

Dawn was not meant to be used as a regular wash. That was established in the posts before when someone linked to Zaino. Lets say you are right about the rubber cracking and all that, I am sure you will find more things on the road that will have the same properties as Dawn. In any case, lets use your example of wax and Dawn. Throw your tire in a pool of Dawn. Does it start to crack? (stupid example to begin with)

Dawn was meant to be used with clay.

That example of throwing a candle into the sink is just plain out stupid. The wax that may be on our cars are not the size of candles and in this case, size matters. Think about when people said hair is strong as aluminium. Pull out one of your hair and pull it apart. It rips right? Now grab a fuckload of hair and its much harder to break. Get a strand of aluminium and rip that. It breaks. Get a piece of aluminum the size of the bunch of hair you gathered before and it will be just as hard to break. Going back to the wax, it wil most certainly be small pieces of surface wax. If it were the size of a candle, take it of your car and throw it away. Go back to your sink and use a potato peeler and shave the candle into your sink. Swash it around and watch the wax dissolve. Do the same with tire. Shave off a bit. Throw it in the sink. Does it crack?

Great post MasterTL.

I cleaned my car just as well as Johan. Damn SSM doesn't have the optical properties of NBP though .

Still, I was very surprised I could actually see clear reflections in the SSM paint. Now thats a good cleaning .

I cant see how this is getting blown out of proportion. Like everyone said Dawn is made to help prep the surface so its free of wax and polishes. You keep stating that you should use AIO and you state that it leaves an acrylic film. Well thats not what you want when you are going to use Zaino. Now you could wash your car everyday with Dawn and nothing would happen to your paint. It may start to dull cause you have nothing filling in the little pores in the clear coat. Now the rubber stuff it may start to dry it out if you dont apply anytype of dressing to it. Now when you clean your tires with, lets say wesley's bleach white, all that brown shmegma is dirt and crap. Thats why when it dries your tires are clean but a little flat looking. The natural oil's are long gone on tires once they are acouple of weeks old. Thats why they sell tire dressing.

Im with Groebuck....Any polish worth its merit will remove amy previously applied protection. As for Z being the best, well, im not here to argue. Ive never used, and dont ever plan to. Actually it was offered to me for free, and I declined. For all you who wish to use Dawn to wash your car, go for it. As for credibility, Groebuck and I have detailed way more cars than just our own personal rides, dont recall having anyone come back saying their vinyl, rubber, plastic trim was deteriorating either, but you all go ahead and wash away, before you prep "with the worlds best wax", after all, you spent all that money, and all those steps, and listened to the all mighty, you may as well state your opinion, as Groebuck and myself have......

first off Hey SK - nope just giving FMJ a whirl - you know I try everything -

Now - if you would like the chemical explanation here it is.

Detergents (Dawn) work through polar and non polar properties of long hydrocarbon chain chemicals with sulfate groups attached. These molecules surround non polar molecules of dirt, grease and oils that are not soluable in water. Soluble dirts are treated by changing the PH of the water to force the dirt to "fall out" of the solution.

Since paints contain essential oils (nurtrative - whatever you want to call them) - and oil and water don't mix the binding action of detergent on these non-polar oils in the paint are bad.

Soaps clean by two actions- Chemical (pH) and Physical (abrasives, detergents, emulsifiers, surfactants, chelators. Dawn and Meg's both have a slightly alkaline pH along with Simple Green. So the difference must be in the detergents and sure enough it is. Dawn contains harsher detergents like SDS which STRIP oils where as Meg's are much less aggressive. Stripping oils from paint reduces the protection from oxidation and your paint will start to rapidly oxidize. Same for plastics except add plasticizers which make the plastic flexible are removed which cause stiffening of the plastic, brittleness, and cracking.

By interal trim I mean your door seals - they get soaked when you was your car.


Need more proof - from the Dawn web site -

Ok to wash car?

Question
Can I wash my car with dishwashing detergent?

Answer
Your car surface and the dirt that gets on it are a lot different from the food soils and dishes that dishwashing liquids clean effectively. We don't recommend them for cleaning your car.


AIO is a great prep for Zaino BECUASE it leaves behind an acrylic. Polymers will always bond better to they acrylic. It's why you can layer Zaino and other sealants.

But like I said, do what you like I'm just trying to let you know that Dawn is bad for your paint, trim and tires. Even one wash. Even the people that make Dawn say don't use it on your car.

Ok so lets measure the pros and cons here.

Pro - I washed my car ONCE with Dawn to get rid of waxy buildup and the like. The ONE washing did not harm to my paint. It will never have a noticable effect unless I decided to do it regularly.

Con - ...

Think logically, not scientifically. If you want to get technical, fine Dawn fucks paint up. But like I said, its all relative. Doing it once, sparingly, has GREAT results. If you do it often, you WILL fuck your paint up. Just like the diet coke analogy I used. Drink it to watch your weight, you won't be as unhealthy as you would be if you drank coke. But if you hooked an IV up full of it you'd probably get cancer.

Sorry, but people who care so much about this kind of shit piss me off. You're car isn't going to get all messed up becuase you used Dawn once, even if you want to convince everyone it will be. The fact remains, in a logical standpoint anyway, that washing it with Dawn is a great alternative to start getting all these bullshit chemicals to bond polymers and all that bullshit better. To me, the choice is clear. Use Dawn, get rid of wax, start at the clear coat, and of course clay to get rid of all the crap. Who in there right mind wants to spend extra money, extra effort, extra time, when you can get an as good if not better shine, with no conseequence to your car?

As stated, there are consequences.....Im sure one time will cause no ill affects, but the fact that a ceratin wax maker says to use it, is what is rediculous. You people put so much faith into that guy, when the maker of the product itself (Dawn) and every detailer out there with common sense says not to use it. So use it at your discretion (With Zaino) and dont come looking for me when you need to treat you rubber/plastic/winyl trims.....

People who care about this kind of shit piss you off? Dude you if you don't care about your paint why go through all the trouble of Zaino. The reason Sal recommends Dawn is that he didn't want to recommend another vendor's "cleaner" product so he said use Dawn, probably becuase he was going to come out with his own paint cleaner but never got around to it. You don't have to spend a lot of money to do it better. Meguairs Deep Crystal step 1 is an excellent paint cleaner you can apply by hand and is like 5 or 6 bucks at any store (it is a chemical cleaner that leaves nothing behind). You have to wash your car anyways so I would guess you have some real car wash and that little bottle of Deep Crystal will last you years (yes it will even strip off the Zaino if you want to start again). BTW logic and science go hand in hand. If your thinking logically and the question is "would you use a product that could damage your paint, trim and tires?" "would you use a product in a way the maker of that product does not recommend?" Logically the answer is no. The science just backs me up. What I am saying is you can get better results with one extra step and an investment of 5 or 6 bucks AND have no worries about damaging your paint..seems like a no brainer to me.

Look it is not a bash against Zaino or Sal - he makes excellent products...I'm just tryin to let you know not to use Dawn. If you don't want to listen to me that's cool. Just for reference -

Here is a pic of a black audi - no dawn wash and used AIO then Zainoed -

Hey....wha'd I miss ?....LOL. i'll let it rest.
So groebuck, which do you prefer ? UPP or the FMJ ?

You really need the kit to get great results - (Final PolishII Glaze then FMJ) they are really easy to work with but can be a bit pricey at 70 bucks for the kit. I think AIO +UPPx3 still win - great results and sooooo easy.