dajonx

Thanks for the price checking!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

and u didnt ask them to price match ?

Persia-TL

i didnt think they would..would they?!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

doesnt hurt to ask....i would try to have them beat 33/sensor and go from there....dealership you pay tax and online store u pay shipping so that cancels out (that would my excuse)....

Cativo

That is about the exact time mine does the shuddering too. Between 2nd and 3rd gear at close to 3k RPM's. Must be these switches. My car is still under warranty, so I wish i knew how to convince the dealer to change them out. They never say they feel the shuddering when I drop it off. Sucks!

I hate cars

Just remember, time is an issue. Shuddering causes a ton of wear. I know they should replace it under warranty but you might be better off doing it yourself just to get it over with and then going after them for the money.

Persia-TL

WAAAOOOOO! what a difference in shifting gears!!

I just replaced these sensors on my 04 TL. right away i felt a great improvement in shifting. It was soooo easy to do this..the only hard part is to finding the sensors :c)..

@ I Hate Cars: Thanks for the great info man..

cheers..

Sanyin

Good Thread. Going blind reading the last 12 pages.
Got a 2000 TL auto, broke 200k a few days ago shifts perfectly fine. Does replacing these sensors apply to my car?

Local Acura dealer sells at about 100$ per sensor.

baby_igor

Yes, the upgrade of the 3rd and 4th pressure sensors worked nicely for me. 2004TL, 91K miles, original owner. I bought the parts in May thinking I would do it myself, but ran out of time and had it done at the 90K tranny fluid 3x3. Had County Tranmission (Vienna, VA) do it, and as usual great job. Also swapped the filter. Clearly smoother shifts during acceleration. Thanks IHC!

SpecialFX

I tried to read this entire thread all the way through before asking but my ADD got the better of me. Does anyone know if manually shifting the AT will either avoid wear on the sensors/switches or prevent shifting issues if they are showing signs of a problem? I don't have a problem with my tranny and plan to change out the parts as sson as I get a chance. I'm just curious.

dwb993

iTrader: (13)

I think it is more a matter of the parts "wearing out", so to speak. That is, the electrical paths deteriorate over time, reducing the device's functionality.
Anyone getting a new or replacement transmission should ensure that these electrical components are replaced as well, or you could potentially have the same problem down the road a bit.

Majofo

The switches going out of spec is more likely thermal stress related, which is unrelated for the most part.

elusiv

Bought an 06 TL with 29K miles, the previous owner *really* laced it to this tranny. I have had the shudder for around 2K miles... hopefully it hasnt done irrepairable damage before I replace the sensor switches that I just ordered from Del Ray. I'm glad you guys are here, I have been racking my brain trying to figure out whats causing it to shudder from 3rd to 4th gear. If I am driving aggressively, it doesn't do it, but when I am driving really slow and carefully, its almost guaranteed to do it... I will report back when they are installed.

jhumbo

iTrader: (1)

I was occasionally experiencing what you described on my 04 and replaced the switches (got them from Del Ray) and I have not felt it since. We all owe IHC on this one. Best of luck with your swap and I hope you have the same outcome as I did.

Acc20yrs

I just bough a used 07 TL with 51,000 miles. Excellent in an out but as an Acura driver of 20 years, I noticed the second gear is just a bit slow on the downshift. Should I do this fix or just the drain and re-fill my Acura dealer suggested??

jhumbo

iTrader: (1)

^
I'd do the drain and refill first since it's a good idea regardless of whether you're having issues. If that doesn't cure it, then do the sensor replacement.

blueprint06

I bought my sensors at my local Acura and they price matched. Only problem now is putting them in. Anyone have a DIY using jack stands? I read the DIY in the garage on this, but they used a lift and I dont have access to one.

AdamNJ

loosen the front driver side tire
jack the front up using the lifting point
put a jack stand under each of the designated points in the front
remove the front driver tire

the stuff is right there, you don't have to really get under the car.

AdamNJ

I just completed the tranny switch replacement a few days ago and here's my report.

2005 TL

3rd gear switch: 28610-RAY-003
4th gear switch: 28600-RAY-003

I've got almost 72,000 miles on my car and I've been having a shudder issue on upshift to 3rd and 4th since somewhere in the 40's. Before the oem warranty ran out I bought it in and my dealer said nothing was wrong/unable to detect. After the warranty expired I bought it in again for the same issue, they diagnosed it as the 1500 rpm driveline vibration and tightened bolts on some heat shield (something like that), again they saw nothing wrong with the tranny.

My problem was a shudder mostly on upshift to 3rd gear and it also happened on 4th gear. It didn't happen every time, and when it did it was during slow (around town) acceleration. When I felt it, I would let up on the gas and then it would complete the shift.

After replacement the shudder is gone. It's a firm/hard shift, but it's not slamming into gear / doesn't have me worried. I'd rather have the firm shift then a sloppy shudder. Maybe I've got some clutch pack damage since been happening for about 2 years, but I'm not worried right now as it's a huge improvement.

I've done a single drain and refill of the ATF 3 times, off the top of my head I can't remember when though, other then the last one was 1000 miles ago. Never replaced the tranny filter as I didn't know about it until reading about the 3rd/4th switch replacement.

I wish I did this earlier but I stopped frequenting the 3g forum before the original posts on the matter showed up.

I hate cars

It's pretty sad the quality of techs these days.

elusiv

Well guys I just finished changing the sensors (along with a much needed tranny mount that was busted)... took the bad boy around the block a few times, didnt notice any shuddering whatsoever. I will continue to keep you posted if anything changes but so far it looks like my shuders are CURED! THANK YOU TO EVERYONE that contributed, this is fantastic! BTW for those that are interested, mine was a 2006 TL with 31K Miles and constant shuddering during low throttle shifting from 3rd to 4th.

troy_279

well after reading through all the posts i still have a question. can someone give a more detailed description of the shudder? on my tl the time i get a shudder is after an upshift and it seems the rpms are a little too low and the engine feels like its bogging a bit like driving a manual and up shifting too soon. is this the shudder everyone is talking about?

Tehvine

What I want to know is... do dealer techs even bother using google to find common issues and solutions? It's quite sad that they don't seem to try and they are oblivious to wide spread problems.

TLTrance

Probably not -- on purpose. They want to d*ck around with our cars so to extract maximum expense on our behalf.

sddale

I just ordered the sensors to do as preventative maintenance. The previous owner had the trans flushed at 35kmi but no sensors were replaced. It seems to be shifting fine but occasionally it will have a rough shift. I'm not sure if its normal or not. I'll report back if there is any change.

My old car was a 00 BMW 540 and at the time BMW had said that their transmissions did not need servicing as they had "lifetime fluid." Many people ended up suffering trans failures at around 100kmi. Some people and most mechanics thought it was marketing BS and recommended regular servicing. I had mine serviced every 60kmi and it was still running strong at 175kmi. I like to believe that preventative maintenance kept it strong.

elusiv

Crap. Update: After a few days of driving around with the new sensors, it seemed like it wasnt doing it, driving home last night I felt the shuddering, I took it for a drive today to confirm... yup, still shuddering. Looks like mine is beyond simple switch replacement. The clutch packs are probably too worn now. Also, I did a 3x3 a week or so ago with Castrol Multi-Vehicle Import ATF... could that not be helping my cause?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ get ready to get flamed LOL

Amsoil Racing ATF (for AT) is the only other ATF recommended on here LOL

I hate cars

It's not helping your cause. Redline Racing or Amsoil Racing only. You want a non friction modified fluid. Anything that says "type F" and most "racing" fluids have no FM. It makes a HUGE difference, more than the switches.

elusiv

How much is that stuff per quart, the Amsol and where can I get it the cheapest? And its not going to cause problems for my transmission? Isnt the ATF-Z1 from honda a friction modified fluid? Isnt that whats supposed to go in the tranny? And if i put that in there with a 3x3 flush its not going to cause problems in the tranny when mixed with what I already have in there, because i'm sure not all of it is going to get flushed with a 3x3. Also, how is the 3x3 properly done? Do it once, drive around for a few minutes, drain, and do it again 2 more times?

I hate cars

The research has been posted and explained in great detail already. Z1 is a heavily friction modified fluid for super soft shifts. What it does in reality is give you a bump shift from being overly soft and cause a ton of extra wear everytime the trans shifts. With the non FM fluid shifts will be quicker yet you don't feel them as much. It's perfectly safe and will greatly extend the trans life. There's a thread by Inaccurate on racing trans fluid and a ton of detal in there.

Of course Honda wants you to buy their over priced inferior fluid but it's one of the worst fluids on the market.

I've been running a non approved fluid since the car had 25,000 miles on it and it now has 94,000 and shifts much better than new.

Price should not be a concern. Spend a couple extra dollars on a good fluid that will double the life of the trans and save the $5,000 rebuild.

elusiv

Well I am going to be putting the car up for sale in the next month or so. I dont want to have any harsher shifting than necessary or buyers will be thinking something is up with the tranny. Secondly, from what I understand in some of the threads... Type F fluid is a big NO NO because it contains detergents that will destroy stuff in your tranny.

I hate cars

Completely wrong.

Type F specifies no FM, nothing else. It can be synthetic or dino and will usually have the same add pack as any other atf minus the FM. I stated the shift quality will be better than Z1 fluid but you took that to mean harsh. I said it would make the trans last longer and you took that as it would destroy it. You're free to do what you want but you're not reading what I wrote.

I gave you the search material to get detailed info on the fluids and the reason why type F is so far superior but you did not search and I'm too tired of re-writing it.

The info is out there but I'm done in this thread since it's about switches and not fluid.

elusiv

IHC... i am reading the threads regarding the fluids... just a quick question, i am simply looking for the shudder to go away. There is no shudder during WOT, but only during very slow acceleration(not everytime, every 3rd time or so)... i have the shudder from 3rd to 4th... what i want to know, if i add some amsoil type f... say 3 quarts, is there some possibility that it will go away or will i have to go all the way with it and do a 3x3? since the switches didnt do much, either the clutch packs are on their way out or the castrol multi-vehicle atf has just as much FM as the Z1 fluid?

basically, what will make my shifting stop shuddering? i commented too soon before i read the rest of the thread.

I hate cars

I would not say anything on here that is going to cause people problems. I'm very careful about that. I knew there would be no issues with type F but I waited until myself and several others had run the fluid for a significant amount of time in the TL before making the recommendation.

The clutch packs are most likely on their way out, but.... type F has 50% more dynamic and 100% more static holding power than DexIII fluid. DexIII fluid has more holding power than Z1. The shudder is the clutches slipping but trying to grab. The Castrol ATF you're running is known for very smooth shifts and a lot of FM. Not as much as Z1 but a lot.

Don't worry about the shifts being too harsh. The TL closes the throttle between shifts so you feel very little difference between the different fluids. In fact, I can't feel the shifts in my car even though they're lightening quick. The shift is over with and complete before the throttle is reapplied so it actually feels softer to the driver. Using this fluid in other cars that don't close the throttle between shifts would cause harsh shifting. We're lucky in this way.

It's hard to say if a single drain and fill of type F would completely cure it but I would give it a 90% chance with a 3x3. If you're going to sell it soon, you can just pick up some cheap non synthetic type F at the auto parts store and get the same effect.

elusiv

Great, thank you for the information, and my apologies for hijacking this thread...one last question.

Durability wise, I cant do any worse than the Z1 or Castrol with cheap non synthetic type F with a 3x3 for the life of the tranny? I dont want to sell a car that is not going to be good for the next owners. I mean I could sell it as is and no one would probably notice, but I dont wanna do that, I wanna try to fix whatever the previous owner lacked in upkeep on the car.

I hate cars

You really can't do worse than Z1. It's a non synthetic with a pretty crappy base oil that oxidizes quickly. A cheap autoparts store type F will probably have a similar base oil but without the FM.

A good synthetic will hold up to the high heat and you can go much longer between changes but if you're only going to have the car for a short time, the cheap fluid will give the same results. Personally I've never tried one in the TL so I can't fully recommend it.

I believe Mobil One makes a type F style synthetic fluid that's available locally and probably cheaper than Redline and Amsoil. You can always try that.

There's always the problem if the new owner takes it into the dealer to get a fluid change done and the shudder comes back when it gets changed with Z1. With a fluid like Redline, you can tell them it doesn't need a fluid change for 100,000 miles which is the truth (if you do a 3x3). The base oil will not break down and the frictional characteristics will not change much over time like conventional fluids with FM will do.

CG's 3GTL

I have to say that I added the Redline racing fluid a few weeks ago... the change was not noticed right away but now my tranny runs great... I did the sensors and Changed the tranny filter as well... This fixed my issue....

TLTrance

I'm a bit of newbie when it comes to ATFs, so here are my questions:

1. For Redline, D4 or Type F is recommended. Is there any reason to go with D4, or should Type F be used in all cases?

2. I don't see a "Type F" ATF on Amsoil's website: http://www.amsoil.com/a/synthetic-transmission-fluid. I also noticed that the first two listed on the page indicates the inclusion of friction modifiers. I take it this is no good then, right?

elusiv

I just switched to the Type F fluid, and replaced the sensors a few days ago, still have the shudder problem like you commented about. How long/how many miles did it take for your issue to go away?

I hate cars

Now that we have enough test miles, I would skip the D4 and use only type F. D4 is a good fluid but the non FM formula of the type F is better in every way. More holding power, quicker shifts, and better than stock shift quality. I would use type F no matter what brand you go with.



Here you go: http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/art.aspx