NFL: 2018 Season News and Discussion Thread
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Costco (11-14-2018)
11-14-2018 | 11:19 AM
#682
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From: Kansas City
Here's the scenario from another perspective.
Near as I can tell from various articles (and I'm rounding a bit), he gave up $14.5M this year and turned down $15M/year (what the $70M offer would have paid him the first two years) because he wanted $17M, which is a 17.2% raise.
So would someone making say $100k, give that up for a year in order to get $117k when they were offered $103k. Never. Point being holding out like that is a privilege of the rich. It falls into the "must be nice" category to not sweat a lifetime of income to get a 17% raise. I don't think I'm wrong saying this is somewhat spoiled and privileged behavior on Bell's part.
Near as I can tell from various articles (and I'm rounding a bit), he gave up $14.5M this year and turned down $15M/year (what the $70M offer would have paid him the first two years) because he wanted $17M, which is a 17.2% raise.
So would someone making say $100k, give that up for a year in order to get $117k when they were offered $103k. Never. Point being holding out like that is a privilege of the rich. It falls into the "must be nice" category to not sweat a lifetime of income to get a 17% raise. I don't think I'm wrong saying this is somewhat spoiled and privileged behavior on Bell's part.
But this applies to any persons who are at that level of wealth AND at this unique position. It's not like a regular worker who has a 30-40+ year career stability who can give up an entire year's worth of salary.
But it is pretty much a given fact that the wealthy, in general, are spoiled/entitled and privileged. And given his unique situation as an NFL player with very limited years of career as a RB and his obvious talent/skill and risk of a career-ending injury, him and his agent will try to manuver to see maximum pay.
Someone making 100k doesn't have a expected 1-10 year expected total career span where every day you go into work with a very real possibility that you can get severely injured and will be unable to earn a paycheck from that industry for the rest of your life not to mention permanent injury that you have to live with in chronic pain or even worse...with CTE that can turn into tragic results.
He can only do what HE feels is best in his situation. It becomes morally impossible to apply a "fair salary" to someone like him...because "oh look at how much money he's making already, he doesn't need more millions when he already has millions!" Not to mention it will benefit his family as well.
Last edited by nist7; 11-14-2018 at 11:29 AM.
11-14-2018 | 01:44 PM
#683
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Seattle, WA
Agree with what you said. Couple comments...
However, cops meet that description. So do fireman, military, heavy machinery operators/construction workers, etc. We don't see some Sergeant in the Army refusing to go to war until he gets 10x salary next year because he might die. Or a construction worker holding out because his occupation involves potential for a career ending injury. No other occupation I can think of that has risk of career ending injury or death takes this approach. Any other industry, they fire them and move on. So Bell's situation is unique - true statement. But part of that uniqueness is the privilege he enjoys to be able to even take this approach.
So since comparing this to "real life" occupations probably isn't productive, I think maybe it has to be evaluated on it's own merits relative to other NFL players in the same boat. So Bell violated the terms of his contract because $15M/year wasn't enough. Is that right or wrong for an NFL player? Probably an individual assessment I would think. I think it's a bit privileged and selfish, and I think it's going to backfire. But you know, I'm not in his shoes either. If he became a Seahawk next year I'd be all over rooting for him, so I'm a big hypocrite too.
Someone making 100k doesn't have a expected 1-10 year expected total career span where every day you go into work with a very real possibility that you can get severely injured and will be unable to earn a paycheck from that industry for the rest of your life not to mention permanent injury that you have to live with in chronic pain or even worse...with CTE that can turn into tragic results.
So since comparing this to "real life" occupations probably isn't productive, I think maybe it has to be evaluated on it's own merits relative to other NFL players in the same boat. So Bell violated the terms of his contract because $15M/year wasn't enough. Is that right or wrong for an NFL player? Probably an individual assessment I would think. I think it's a bit privileged and selfish, and I think it's going to backfire. But you know, I'm not in his shoes either. If he became a Seahawk next year I'd be all over rooting for him, so I'm a big hypocrite too.
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nist7 (11-14-2018)
11-14-2018 | 01:59 PM
#684
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2010
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From: Kansas City
Agree with what you said. Couple comments...
However, cops meet that description. So do fireman, military, heavy machinery operators/construction workers, etc. We don't see some Sergeant in the Army refusing to go to war until he gets 10x salary next year because he might die. Or a construction worker holding out because his occupation involves potential for a career ending injury. No other occupation I can think of that has risk of career ending injury or death takes this approach. Any other industry, they fire them and move on. So Bell's situation is unique - true statement. But part of that uniqueness is the privilege he enjoys to be able to even take this approach.
So since comparing this to "real life" occupations probably isn't productive, I think maybe it has to be evaluated on it's own merits relative to other NFL players in the same boat. So Bell violated the terms of his contract because $15M/year wasn't enough. Is that right or wrong for an NFL player? Probably an individual assessment I would think. I think it's a bit privileged and selfish, and I think it's going to backfire. But you know, I'm not in his shoes either. If he became a Seahawk next year I'd be all over rooting for him, so I'm a big hypocrite too.
However, cops meet that description. So do fireman, military, heavy machinery operators/construction workers, etc. We don't see some Sergeant in the Army refusing to go to war until he gets 10x salary next year because he might die. Or a construction worker holding out because his occupation involves potential for a career ending injury. No other occupation I can think of that has risk of career ending injury or death takes this approach. Any other industry, they fire them and move on. So Bell's situation is unique - true statement. But part of that uniqueness is the privilege he enjoys to be able to even take this approach.
So since comparing this to "real life" occupations probably isn't productive, I think maybe it has to be evaluated on it's own merits relative to other NFL players in the same boat. So Bell violated the terms of his contract because $15M/year wasn't enough. Is that right or wrong for an NFL player? Probably an individual assessment I would think. I think it's a bit privileged and selfish, and I think it's going to backfire. But you know, I'm not in his shoes either. If he became a Seahawk next year I'd be all over rooting for him, so I'm a big hypocrite too.
The reason for those guys with no ability to do what Bell does: you can easily find replacements for cops, construction workers, fire fighters, machinery operators, military, etc. etc. Some maybe not as easy as others, but there are millions of people who are qualified to do those jobs.
Maybe a dozen(give or take some) people in the world can replace someone like Bell, (and all of them are already employed...) who is among the cream of the crop at what he does for his very skilled occupation. Clearly sometimes you find diamonds in the rough (Kareem Hunt exploded onto the scene last year due to Spencer Ware injury, James Conner this year with the Bell hold out) but when you make it to a NFL team as the 2nd backup to a starter, you're already very highly skilled/capable and in a ultra select group of people.
But yes overall I agree it is a very nice privilege to be doing what he does, but it is also due to his unique set of circumstance and clearly he has the talent/skill in a very niche occupation that is highly in demand as well.
We'll see if he gets a big guaranteed deal before next season. Certainly a big gamble that may or may not pay off
Last edited by nist7; 11-14-2018 at 02:02 PM.
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97BlackAckCL (11-16-2018)
11-14-2018 | 06:25 PM
#686
nnInn
Joined: Mar 2006
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AH yeah very true about those very physically hazardous occupations.
The reason for those guys with no ability to do what Bell does: you can easily find replacements for cops, construction workers, fire fighters, machinery operators, military, etc. etc. Some maybe not as easy as others, but there are millions of people who are qualified to do those jobs.
Maybe a dozen(give or take some) people in the world can replace someone like Bell, (and all of them are already employed...) who is among the cream of the crop at what he does for his very skilled occupation. Clearly sometimes you find diamonds in the rough (Kareem Hunt exploded onto the scene last year due to Spencer Ware injury, James Conner this year with the Bell hold out) but when you make it to a NFL team as the 2nd backup to a starter, you're already very highly skilled/capable and in a ultra select group of people.
But yes overall I agree it is a very nice privilege to be doing what he does, but it is also due to his unique set of circumstance and clearly he has the talent/skill in a very niche occupation that is highly in demand as well.
We'll see if he gets a big guaranteed deal before next season. Certainly a big gamble that may or may not pay off
The reason for those guys with no ability to do what Bell does: you can easily find replacements for cops, construction workers, fire fighters, machinery operators, military, etc. etc. Some maybe not as easy as others, but there are millions of people who are qualified to do those jobs.
Maybe a dozen(give or take some) people in the world can replace someone like Bell, (and all of them are already employed...) who is among the cream of the crop at what he does for his very skilled occupation. Clearly sometimes you find diamonds in the rough (Kareem Hunt exploded onto the scene last year due to Spencer Ware injury, James Conner this year with the Bell hold out) but when you make it to a NFL team as the 2nd backup to a starter, you're already very highly skilled/capable and in a ultra select group of people.
But yes overall I agree it is a very nice privilege to be doing what he does, but it is also due to his unique set of circumstance and clearly he has the talent/skill in a very niche occupation that is highly in demand as well.
We'll see if he gets a big guaranteed deal before next season. Certainly a big gamble that may or may not pay off
11-14-2018 | 07:01 PM
#687
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2010
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From: Kansas City
Oh for sure. That definitely helped the Steelers not give into Bell. Conner is this year's Kareem Hunt. A backup that was thrust into the starter role and had an amazing show out.
11-14-2018 | 08:20 PM
#688
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Seattle, WA
This is why I'm curious if Bell is truly this unicorn of a talent, or if he's shining brighter than normal because of a supportive system and team. We'll find out next season for sure. In the mean time, Pitt seems to be trucking right along using Conner.
11-14-2018 | 08:39 PM
#689
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Joined: Jun 2010
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From: Kansas City
Some additional NFL business points that seems to be gaining traction on reddit regarding this:
source: https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasyfoot...and_a/e9o7odg/
That's assuming they didn't run his ass into the ground again this year and caused a life altering injury. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say even a 30 million dollar contract guaranteed is worth it.
Everyone is thinking about this the wrong way. If the next CBA reforms or abolishes the franchise tag this becomes a profitable decision for every player who negotiates a contract thereafter. This is more about security than money. He's the truest workhorse in the league, he's one of two guys this decade with 400+ touches in a season, and he's been without a contract for 1/3rd of his time as a pro.
They were all too content to try to run him into the ground last year, and presumably would do it again this year, and then let him walk with 400 more hits on his body, assuming he avoids injury. The tag provides no security and no negotiating power to the player and is strictly unethical as a business practice. Earl Thomas should have done the same thing.
They were all too content to try to run him into the ground last year, and presumably would do it again this year, and then let him walk with 400 more hits on his body, assuming he avoids injury. The tag provides no security and no negotiating power to the player and is strictly unethical as a business practice. Earl Thomas should have done the same thing.
The franchise tag is the issue here as it allows a team year to year control without any guarantees past that year. As long as it's in place teams are going to use it to avoid taking on unnecessary risk. Most teams aren't in the business of paying more than they have to as a nice gesture. It basically guarantees that elite players will be underpaid because they can't negotiate with any other team to determine their true value. That'd be like working a job that's underpaying you and all you can do is try to negotiate up with that company without the option of leaving.
As far as the tag though, unless players are willing to hold out, they may have trouble getting it taken away. Negotiating power for the NFLPA is historically lower than other professional leagues because of how short the average NFL career is and how many players are on a team vs NBA, NHL, MLB, etc. For the player's sake I hope they can get it removed or Bell's situation will continue to happen
As far as the tag though, unless players are willing to hold out, they may have trouble getting it taken away. Negotiating power for the NFLPA is historically lower than other professional leagues because of how short the average NFL career is and how many players are on a team vs NBA, NHL, MLB, etc. For the player's sake I hope they can get it removed or Bell's situation will continue to happen
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Costco (11-14-2018)
11-16-2018 | 08:40 AM
#690
4th and 2, trailing with 4 minutes to go and we punt it away... Defense hasn't stopped them since the first series fumble. McCarthy won't make the end of the season if we lose 1 or 2 more games.
11-16-2018 | 09:44 AM
#691
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McCarthy is in that Marvin Lewis tier of coaches. Good enough to not get fired, not good enough to get to or win the Super Bowl. Things just came together that one year.
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pttl (11-18-2018)
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97BlackAckCL (11-19-2018)
11-19-2018 | 11:00 AM
#703
Senior Moderator
Joined: Dec 2001
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Uneven GM...still perplexed why he gave the farm to move up 1 spot to grab a player no one else was taking.
And esp. with Mahomes and DeSean still on the board too. Would those two be better? It's debatable but man, Mitch still makes some WTFBBQ throws into coverage that results in turnovers...
And esp. with Mahomes and DeSean still on the board too. Would those two be better? It's debatable but man, Mitch still makes some WTFBBQ throws into coverage that results in turnovers...
11-19-2018 | 01:10 PM
#704
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2010
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From: Kansas City
Uneven GM...still perplexed why he gave the farm to move up 1 spot to grab a player no one else was taking.
And esp. with Mahomes and DeSean still on the board too. Would those two be better? It's debatable but man, Mitch still makes some WTFBBQ throws into coverage that results in turnovers...
And esp. with Mahomes and DeSean still on the board too. Would those two be better? It's debatable but man, Mitch still makes some WTFBBQ throws into coverage that results in turnovers...
And of course we know now how Mahomes has turned out so far. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Still early in the game for lot of young QBs still and things can change in the coming years...
11-19-2018 | 02:28 PM
#705
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Joined: Dec 2001
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To be fair, lot of people were talking trash to the Chiefs front office and early Mahomes supporters about how he was gonna be a INT machine and a hot headed gun slinger and how we are gonna be lucky to have an 8-8 season this year.
And of course we know now how Mahomes has turned out so far. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Still early in the game for lot of young QBs still and things can change in the coming years...
And of course we know now how Mahomes has turned out so far. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Still early in the game for lot of young QBs still and things can change in the coming years...
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nist7 (11-19-2018)
11-19-2018 | 02:37 PM
#707
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Joined: Jun 2010
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From: Kansas City
Still lot of years to go for all the young QBs in the league....should be really interesting to watch Mahomes/Watson/Trubisky/Mayfield/Darnold/Allen/Rosen/Jackson/etc. etc. in the years to come...
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11-20-2018 | 10:41 AM
#718
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,973
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From: Seattle, WA
It was an exciting game though - I like those a lot better than the 6-9 contests that are nothing but 60 minutes of 3-and-outs.
Nice fantasy day for all the principle players too....
Nice fantasy day for all the principle players too....
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