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Thank You oo7spy. Part of what I was getting to above.
And my sarcasm aside, FWIW, it's really unfortunate for your team here because in the court of public opinion, many have already decided the Pats are guilty of cheating.
And if they do win it all, believe it that the luster of the victory will be tarnished...which, is unfortunate.
As you can see, I'm no fan of the Pats but I can admire their execution, drafting, and construction of a team. It just works year after year after year...Heck, I can only wish my team could have 20% of that...
Still, the bad optics of getting caught with Spygate and now this? It seriously affects my perception of them. Sorry.
I can't wait for the "well, dude...everyone does it!" counter. Cheating is cheating. Don't give a fark if everyone else is doing it. It's against the rules written for the game. Period.
And if other teams are doing it and have not been caught? Well, shame on those teams too.
The following is a list of teams who have been caught by the NFL and punished for "cheating" also known as "violating rules to gain a competitive advantage" since 1989.
The following is a list of teams who have been caught by the NFL and punished for "cheating" also known as "violating rules to gain a competitive advantage" since 1989.
Washington Redskins
Seattle Seahawks
New York Jets
Philadelphia Eagles
Los Angeles Rams
Denver Broncos
Chicago Bears
Buffalo Bills
Green Bay Packers
LA Raiders
San Francisco 49ers
Dallas Cowboys
Phoenix Cardinals
New York Giants
Pittsburgh Steelers
Atlanta Falcons
Minnesota Vikings
Tennesee Titans
Detroit Lions
Jacksonville Jaguars
Atlanta Falcons
Carolina Panthers
Kansas City Chiefs
St. Louis Rams
San Diego Chargers
Miami Dolphins
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
New Orleans Saints
Oakland Raiders
Cleveland Browns
New England Patriots
Tennessee Titans
Buffalo Bills
Baltimore Ravens
Indianapolis Colts
Cleveland Browns
Arizona Cardinals
Cincinnati Bengals
Is your team on the list? Your team cheats.
You point is what exactly...? They got caught...paid for it. And they deserved it. As did every other team on that list.
Bengals on the bottom of the list is hard to believe.
The list is only in order of the years it happened startin in 89. Many teams appear multiple times. I left out duplicates unless the teams name changed.
I didn't feel like typing Seattle Seahawks over and over again.
That those who believe the Pats are the only team bending rules are naive or just want to hate the pats because they consistently win.
What about those that didn't get caught? What about those that did, was it their "first time" and they never did it before?
So, if you think your team is being singled out, well, I dunno? Sorry?
But, frankly, I don't see the point AT ALL arguing how because everyone cheats, it lessons the fact that the Pats appear to have got caught doing it and now are looking like morons and tarnishes their rep yet again?
What do you guys who are defending the Pats here want to do? Send out a memo or petition that the Pats are the victims here?
Oh I know. It's racial profiling isn't it? Must be that white-QB and that white-coach they have.
So, cheating is cheating. Sure...I guess all teams do it. Each time you cheat, you risk getting caught. So, if you are suspected of it...and big-time suspected of it...well, get ready to face the music?
I think that's the point of all the "haters who're gonna hate"...?
Like, if the need here is to divert the attention to say, the Bears on them cheating? Sure! All I've got is...DAMN, they suck at cheating cuz they lost a pile of games while cheating! CHEAT HARDER, DAMMIT!
So, cheating is cheating. Sure...I guess all teams do it. Each time you cheat, you risk getting caught. So, if you are suspected of it...and big-time suspected of it...well, get ready to face the music?
I think that's the point of all the "haters who're gonna hate"...?
Like, if the need here is to divert the attention to say, the Bears on them cheating? Sure! All I've got is...DAMN, they suck at cheating cuz they lost a pile of games while cheating! CHEAT HARDER, DAMMIT!
We should probably empty out the entire baseball HOF because they were all on greenies.
We should probably empty out the entire baseball HOF because they were all on greenies.
Right?
Up to you. But, everyone in the Roid Era in my opinion? Should just toss an asterisk to their names and just state what the conditions of the game were like during their career.
However, if we're to go with the sniff test, there is a small minority that I'll say I'd be EXTREMELY shocked if they were dopers: this would be people like Greg Maddux, Frank Thomas, Cal Ripken Jr., and etc.
Anyhow, again, not sure what you're trying to say...but, my point again, if you cheat (and frankly, don't care if you think EVERYONE cheats), but, if you cross that line AND get caught or are suspected of it? Get ready to face the "haters gonna hate" music?
That's all.
And the Pats...well, they are suspected of cheating and so, guess what? Lotsa haters are gonna hate? Everyone else who didn't get caught? Not so much.
It's unfortunate how sports has become like this. You just can't look at success anymore without wondering if the victor has cheated.
I know I can't even begin to feel great about any victory in track and field. I think they are all on dope. Yep...that includes Usain Bolt.
How can you be so sure that the greats of the past haven't taken a competitive advantage that's against the rules? Do you really think MJ, Wayne Gretzky, Tiger Woods, Larry Bird, Wilt Chamberlain, or Babe Ruth never once took advantage of a situation they thought they could get away with?
I also am not really sure why you feel the magnitude of accomplishment is any less exciting under certain circumstances. Hitting an 85 mph pitch is really fucking hard in its own right. Hitting it with a wooden bat over 350 feet is elite shit. The thing I truly enjoy about sports, and especially professional sports, is watching people do things on a regular basis that I know to be extremely difficult. I don't believe Tracy McGardy sinking 13 pts in 53 seconds to beat the Spurs would be any less amazing if you told me he was on speed. Same goes for Usain Bolt. 99.99% of the world couldn't break 100 meters in under 10 seconds with all the drugs or illegal equipment they could get their hands on.
How can you be so sure that the greats of the past haven't taken a competitive advantage that's against the rules? Do you really think MJ, Wayne Gretzky, Tiger Woods, Larry Bird, Wilt Chamberlain, or Babe Ruth never once took advantage of a situation they thought they could get away with?
I also am not really sure why you feel the magnitude of accomplishment is any less exciting under certain circumstances. Hitting an 85 mph pitch is really fucking hard in its own right. Hitting it with a wooden bat over 350 feet is elite shit. The thing I truly enjoy about sports, and especially professional sports, is watching people do things on a regular basis that I know to be extremely difficult. I don't believe Tracy McGardy sinking 13 pts in 53 seconds to beat the Spurs would be any less amazing if you told me he was on speed. Same goes for Usain Bolt. 99.99% of the world couldn't break 100 meters in under 10 seconds with all the drugs or illegal equipment they could get their hands on.
Tough tough questions. And good points.
To marvel at human achievement in the world of athletics is still what it is...breath-taking when taken in at that moment or seeing it for the first time. Sometimes, it's so fantastic that you just want to replay it and replay it.
Elite athletes are what they are: elite. They are paid their millions and adored by the masses because they are in that 99th percentile...something they can do is above that of the average individual. So, all your examples...yeah, impressive. I can NEVER run under 10 seconds. I can never play ball like what I see on TV in the NBA. This is the wonderment of sports. I LOVE watching sports...regulars know I am a diehard Chicago sports fan and will go to the grave rooting for them come horrid or great.
But, what I cannot accept is when athletes/teams are caught cheating...meaning, going into an event/competition and knowingly intending to break the rules to enhance their chances of winning.
With the greats you have listed, I have to believe that some are clean. I have to believe that their records and achievements are not tarnished by actions that deliberately broke the rules to give themselves an advantage over others. And for the most part, people who dope? Whispers follow them. We know MJ had a gambling problem and sucked at baseball...but, has there ever been whispers that he doped? He was constantly under the microscope as arguably the greatest basketball player...ever. And yet, no rumors of it. Yet, with "greats" like Roger Clemens? Oops. What about the biggest poster boy of them all: Lance Armstrong? Even when he was "the best"...whispers followed of his cheating ways.
But, what if some of the greats you listed were cheats? Well, frankly, my opinion changes. Again, I must repeat: you are correct, clean or not, breaking something like sub-10 seconds for 100 meters is darn impressive. But, to know that a new record or elite achievement (even if not a new record or whatever) was achieved because the individual broke a required rule of the sport? Sorry. Can't accept it. Especially if this achievement was at the cost of someone who actually was clean and followed the rules.
You know, that's a good question. I think with him it's a committee - we have some good line backers, and Kam Chancellor is a beast back there. Truth be told I think the Patriots offense is best at the style of play the Hawks defense is vulnerable to. But then again I thought the same thing about the Broncos and we figured it out.
I actually think the better key to stopping Gronk is for some very physical defensive play up front and just harass Brady constantly. If we can't pressure Brady it's going to be a long game.
Some questions asked at Media Day courtesy of seahawks.com
1. "If you win, would you trade the Lombardi Trophy for my underwear?"
2. "Will you tell us the first play you'll run in the game if we promise not to tell anyone?"
3. "What's your guilty-pleasure food?"
4. "What does your mom call you when you're in trouble?"
5. "Playstation or XBOX?"
6. "Which teammate should never dance in public?"
7. "Who wore the ugliest outfit coming into Arizona?"
How can you be so sure that the greats of the past haven't taken a competitive advantage that's against the rules? Do you really think MJ, Wayne Gretzky, Tiger Woods, Larry Bird, Wilt Chamberlain, or Babe Ruth never once took advantage of a situation they thought they could get away with?
I also am not really sure why you feel the magnitude of accomplishment is any less exciting under certain circumstances. Hitting an 85 mph pitch is really fucking hard in its own right. Hitting it with a wooden bat over 350 feet is elite shit. The thing I truly enjoy about sports, and especially professional sports, is watching people do things on a regular basis that I know to be extremely difficult. I don't believe Tracy McGardy sinking 13 pts in 53 seconds to beat the Spurs would be any less amazing if you told me he was on speed. Same goes for Usain Bolt. 99.99% of the world couldn't break 100 meters in under 10 seconds with all the drugs or illegal equipment they could get their hands on.
Basically, this. It's asinine to label anything that is a competitive advantage as cheating. From deflated footballs to steroids, all under the same label. There's been steroids in football for decades. Pitchers scuffed the baseballs. Players took greenies. Pine tar on the ball...I could go on and on.
To say a pound of air (which is now being reported versus two, and it may indeed have been a natural possibility, regardless of where the ball boy went) is just...dumb.
The interesting thing is that meme just below this post I quoted saying that the Patriots can't win a SB without cheating. Everyone knows that filming was legal up to 2006, right?
But, to know that a new record or elite achievement (even if not a new record or whatever) was achieved because the individual broke a required rule of the sport? Sorry. Can't accept it. Especially if this achievement was at the cost of someone who actually was clean and followed the rules.
If I told you the ball that Tyree caught from Manning in 2008 had 10 psi of pressure, would it change your opinion of the Super Bowl winner? Honest question, but it wouldn't for me. That was amazing and they deserved the win.
FWIW, I still think Lance deserves to be recognized for his achievement. Was he doping? Of course, but so was everyone else. He was the best doper on a bike in a relatively level playing field.
Originally Posted by 1Louder
But then again I thought the same thing about the Broncos and we figured it out.
I wouldn't give them too much credit. I am thoroughly convinced the Patriots stole their map to the stadium because the Broncos didn't even show up.
Basically, this. It's asinine to label anything that is a competitive advantage as cheating. From deflated footballs to steroids, all under the same label. There's been steroids in football for decades. Pitchers scuffed the baseballs. Players took greenies. Pine tar on the ball...I could go on and on.
To say a pound of air (which is now being reported versus two, and it may indeed have been a natural possibility, regardless of where the ball boy went) is just...dumb.
The interesting thing is that meme just below this post I quoted saying that the Patriots can't win a SB without cheating. Everyone knows that filming was legal up to 2006, right?
The point is, they are deliberating breaking the rules of the game. There's one thing for "competitive advantage" where it's within the rules...something else completely when you're purposely breaking it.
Yumchah stirring shit up in Sports Talk again. First he drove away Moog, Now he wants to drive off Black Label.
He'll only be happy when he has Sports Talk all to himself so no one can disagree with him and tell him how wrong he is.
Lol, he can't get rid of me. His argument is basically everyone cheats, they are all wrong for doing it but the patriots are the only ones who should be singled out and labeled as cheaters because they win championships.
It's about as dumb as his goalie argument and 2x as dumb as your "Finland is a 6th best hockey team" ignoring that they only missed the podium (aka top 3) 2 times since the 80's and have more medals than any other country since NHL players were allowed to participate.
Haters gonna hate, especially haters with a long history of complete failure
Lol, he can't get rid of me. His argument is basically everyone cheats, they are all wrong for doing it but the patriots are the only ones who should be singled out and labeled as cheaters because they win championships.
It's about as dumb as his goalie argument and 2x as dumb as your "Finland is a 6th best hockey team" ignoring that they only missed the podium (aka top 3) 2 times since the 80's and have more medals than any other country since NHL players were allowed to participate.
Haters gonna hate, especially haters with a long history of complete failure
Not sure where you're getting that interpretation from what I've written. But, mmm...okay? Again, sorry if your Pats are the "victims" here? Victims for cheating!
Not sure where you're getting that interpretation from what I've written. But, mmm...okay? Again, sorry if your Pats are the "victims" here? Victims for cheating!
What a cruel, cruel, cruel world.
Hmm, not sure why you are putting quotation marks around the word victim when that word does not appear in my post you quoted.
Not sure where you're getting that interpretation from.
01-27-2015, 03:40 PM
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And move his posts around as he pleases
