View Poll Results: Who will win the NBA Championship?
Orlando Magic
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8
18.18%
LA Lakers
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36
81.82%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll
NBA: 2009 Playoffs Thread
#1044
Great game. Impressed with how the supposedly weak Laker frontline contained Howard.
Kobe is a bigger mismatch for the Magic than Shard and Hedo will ever be for the Lakers.
Dwight probably won't have as bad a game as he did, but the Pau and Drew can at least use their length on him or foul him and make him earn it.
Kobe is a bigger mismatch for the Magic than Shard and Hedo will ever be for the Lakers.
Dwight probably won't have as bad a game as he did, but the Pau and Drew can at least use their length on him or foul him and make him earn it.
#1047
I shoot people
funny how the votes went waaaaaaaaay up for the Lakers all of a sudden
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
#1050
What Would Don Draper Do?
to orlando's credit, they probably won't play as badly as they did in game 1. i don't expect the rest of this series to be a blowout like that.
#1051
What Would Don Draper Do?
As Howard grows in stature, Shaq shrinks
By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports LOS ANGELES -
The greatness of Shaquille O'Neal(notes) demands that his name, his legacy, never drifts far from an NBA Finals. Even when he's long out of the league, that'll still be true. For the immortals, the lifetime benefits include the exhaustive examination of the next generation's stars to your standards.
How does Tom Brady measure to Joe Montana?
Kobe Bryant(notes) to Michael Jordan?
And, yes, Dwight Howard(notes) to Shaq.
Mostly, here's how a burgeoning talent is born: A gifted young star emulates his idol and eventually becomes his peer.
So, why does Shaq get such glee out of belittling and ridiculing those centers who came before and after him?
"Sometimes I wonder about his maturity," Kareem Abdul-Jabbar told Yahoo! Sports on Friday. "He doesn't need to do that. He's achieved so much.
"I don't know why he stoops to that."
Abdul-Jabbar doesn't need Shaq's approval, but Howard is 23 years old and Shaq owes it to the league, to common decency, to be civil with this kid. His treatment of Howard has been kind of sad, especially considering that Howard grew up wanting to be him.
Howard marveled at Shaq's strength and roared at his comedy and tried to emulate him in every way. They were drafted into the NBA as the No. 1 overall pick to the Orlando Magic, and turned losers into NBA finalists. Howard always seemed to crave Shaq's counsel, his respect, but Howard has long been the target of humiliating insults.
In the past year alone, Shaq called Howard an "imposter" and insisted that, "Everything he's done, I've invented," and on and on. On opening night of the NBA Finals, Shaq posted a goofy photo on Twitter of what a Dwight Howard and Stan Van Gundy child would look like. After five years of this, Howard still doesn't get the reason that Shaq revels in ripping him.
"I can't tell you why he's said a lot of discouraging things," Howard said Friday at the Staples Center. "I wish he wouldn't say it because he's one of the few guys that we all look up to."
For most, O'Neal's motives are transparent. Somehow, Shaq thinks it diminishes his own legacy if Howard achieves something significant sooner than he did.
"That's why Shaq wants [Howard] to get swept in the Finals," a league source close with Howard and O'Neal said Friday. "He doesn't want Dwight to win a game because he didn't win a game in the Finals when he got there at a young age with Orlando."
It's funny, but Jordan never takes offense that Bryant and LeBron James(notes) and Dwyane Wade(notes) emulate him. To Michael, it was an honor. He embraces it. He always believed that was his responsibility to pass wisdom and encouragement to the next generation's icons. Julius Erving did it for him. And Michael does it for them.
Nevertheless, Shaq has mostly been about, well, Shaq. Now, at 37 years old, Shaq still has a chance to get back to a contender, to get back into the championship chase. He was surprisingly spry for the Phoenix Suns this season, and with his expiring contract of $20 million next season, he will be an intriguing possibility on the summer trade market. Many league executives believe that Cleveland will revisit its trade deadline discussions with Phoenix, and consider making a deal for Shaq this summer. Cavs general manger Danny Ferry knows his team needs a bigger, stronger force to guard Howard, especially in the final season before LeBron James' free agency in 2010.
Where does Shaq want to go? Multiple league sources, including with the Lakers, believe Shaq wants a return engagement with the Lakers. They think that's why he has spent this season trying to repair the damage done to his relationship with Bryant. He tried to buddy up on All-Star weekend when they were co-MVPs, but give Bryant credit: He refused to engage with Shaq on a revisionist make-believe about how it was never so toxic between them.
There's little chance the Lakers would make a move for Shaq, and no chance Bryant would ever accept a return to that hell. Shaq's rap last year about Kobe ended any chance at reconciliation. Bryant is three games away from winning his first title without Shaq, and all he'll want to do next season is win another - without him.
Lost in that the rap, was the line, "That's like Kareem saying to himself that he's better than me." Well, remember this: Abdul-Jabbar averaged 22 points and eight rebounds on a Laker championship team when he was 37 years old. When I asked him how that lyric made him feel, Abdul-Jabbar said, "The gratuitous insult? I considered the source and I slept very well that night."
K
areem Abdul-Jabbar doesn't need Shaq's approval, nor his validation. Yet, all Dwight Howard ever wanted was to be the next Shaquille O'Neal, and when did that become a crime for a young basketball player? Michael Jordan had always been secure enough in his legacy, his greatness, to embrace Kobe and LeBron.
So, yes, you have to wonder: Will Shaq ever be?
By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports LOS ANGELES -
The greatness of Shaquille O'Neal(notes) demands that his name, his legacy, never drifts far from an NBA Finals. Even when he's long out of the league, that'll still be true. For the immortals, the lifetime benefits include the exhaustive examination of the next generation's stars to your standards.
How does Tom Brady measure to Joe Montana?
Kobe Bryant(notes) to Michael Jordan?
And, yes, Dwight Howard(notes) to Shaq.
Mostly, here's how a burgeoning talent is born: A gifted young star emulates his idol and eventually becomes his peer.
So, why does Shaq get such glee out of belittling and ridiculing those centers who came before and after him?
"Sometimes I wonder about his maturity," Kareem Abdul-Jabbar told Yahoo! Sports on Friday. "He doesn't need to do that. He's achieved so much.
"I don't know why he stoops to that."
Abdul-Jabbar doesn't need Shaq's approval, but Howard is 23 years old and Shaq owes it to the league, to common decency, to be civil with this kid. His treatment of Howard has been kind of sad, especially considering that Howard grew up wanting to be him.
Howard marveled at Shaq's strength and roared at his comedy and tried to emulate him in every way. They were drafted into the NBA as the No. 1 overall pick to the Orlando Magic, and turned losers into NBA finalists. Howard always seemed to crave Shaq's counsel, his respect, but Howard has long been the target of humiliating insults.
In the past year alone, Shaq called Howard an "imposter" and insisted that, "Everything he's done, I've invented," and on and on. On opening night of the NBA Finals, Shaq posted a goofy photo on Twitter of what a Dwight Howard and Stan Van Gundy child would look like. After five years of this, Howard still doesn't get the reason that Shaq revels in ripping him.
"I can't tell you why he's said a lot of discouraging things," Howard said Friday at the Staples Center. "I wish he wouldn't say it because he's one of the few guys that we all look up to."
For most, O'Neal's motives are transparent. Somehow, Shaq thinks it diminishes his own legacy if Howard achieves something significant sooner than he did.
"That's why Shaq wants [Howard] to get swept in the Finals," a league source close with Howard and O'Neal said Friday. "He doesn't want Dwight to win a game because he didn't win a game in the Finals when he got there at a young age with Orlando."
It's funny, but Jordan never takes offense that Bryant and LeBron James(notes) and Dwyane Wade(notes) emulate him. To Michael, it was an honor. He embraces it. He always believed that was his responsibility to pass wisdom and encouragement to the next generation's icons. Julius Erving did it for him. And Michael does it for them.
Nevertheless, Shaq has mostly been about, well, Shaq. Now, at 37 years old, Shaq still has a chance to get back to a contender, to get back into the championship chase. He was surprisingly spry for the Phoenix Suns this season, and with his expiring contract of $20 million next season, he will be an intriguing possibility on the summer trade market. Many league executives believe that Cleveland will revisit its trade deadline discussions with Phoenix, and consider making a deal for Shaq this summer. Cavs general manger Danny Ferry knows his team needs a bigger, stronger force to guard Howard, especially in the final season before LeBron James' free agency in 2010.
Where does Shaq want to go? Multiple league sources, including with the Lakers, believe Shaq wants a return engagement with the Lakers. They think that's why he has spent this season trying to repair the damage done to his relationship with Bryant. He tried to buddy up on All-Star weekend when they were co-MVPs, but give Bryant credit: He refused to engage with Shaq on a revisionist make-believe about how it was never so toxic between them.
There's little chance the Lakers would make a move for Shaq, and no chance Bryant would ever accept a return to that hell. Shaq's rap last year about Kobe ended any chance at reconciliation. Bryant is three games away from winning his first title without Shaq, and all he'll want to do next season is win another - without him.
Lost in that the rap, was the line, "That's like Kareem saying to himself that he's better than me." Well, remember this: Abdul-Jabbar averaged 22 points and eight rebounds on a Laker championship team when he was 37 years old. When I asked him how that lyric made him feel, Abdul-Jabbar said, "The gratuitous insult? I considered the source and I slept very well that night."
K
areem Abdul-Jabbar doesn't need Shaq's approval, nor his validation. Yet, all Dwight Howard ever wanted was to be the next Shaquille O'Neal, and when did that become a crime for a young basketball player? Michael Jordan had always been secure enough in his legacy, his greatness, to embrace Kobe and LeBron.
So, yes, you have to wonder: Will Shaq ever be?
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
#1054
Ackniculous One
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Hell yeah, that was a great play for the Magic, but I am so glad the pass was a little off and Lee had too much momentum to finesse that alley oop...dang...phew
Ok fellas, two more to go..lets not play 3 straight games in Orlando.
Magic certainly looked at tapes and played a pretty ok game compared to Game 1.
Lewis' 3 pointer from the deep corner and off balance was a great shot! I was a little pissed Kobe didn't feed the pill over to Lamar in for the open 3 when Hedo blocked Kobe.... But thankfully we pulled it off on the free throw line.
Ok fellas, two more to go..lets not play 3 straight games in Orlando.
Magic certainly looked at tapes and played a pretty ok game compared to Game 1.
Lewis' 3 pointer from the deep corner and off balance was a great shot! I was a little pissed Kobe didn't feed the pill over to Lamar in for the open 3 when Hedo blocked Kobe.... But thankfully we pulled it off on the free throw line.
#1056
Good game. This is the Magic I expected to see.
Kobe was a ballhog that last Laker possession of regulation. IMO, Pau was player of the game for checking Howard about as well as anyone could. Lamar would have been at least co- player of the game, but Shard got WAY to many 3s.
Kobe was a ballhog that last Laker possession of regulation. IMO, Pau was player of the game for checking Howard about as well as anyone could. Lamar would have been at least co- player of the game, but Shard got WAY to many 3s.
#1057
What Would Don Draper Do?
hedo and rashard have ice in their veins (except game 1
)
but
to hedo.
i remember when he was a rookie at sacramento. he was only like 6'8" at the time, and i remember the announcers saying he's still growing. who would have thought that of that talented kings squad, hedo would be the one that could play an integral part in winning a ring?
always liked him as a player, but he's really grown the last 2 years. dude's 6'10", can play 4 positions, handle, pass, shoot, and actually tries to play defense. and that block on kobe was so clean even after he got beat.
![Tomato](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tomato.gif)
but
![Bow](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bow.gif)
i remember when he was a rookie at sacramento. he was only like 6'8" at the time, and i remember the announcers saying he's still growing. who would have thought that of that talented kings squad, hedo would be the one that could play an integral part in winning a ring?
always liked him as a player, but he's really grown the last 2 years. dude's 6'10", can play 4 positions, handle, pass, shoot, and actually tries to play defense. and that block on kobe was so clean even after he got beat.
#1059
Suzuka Master
Damn good game. Bummed the magic couldn't pull it out. They certainly had their chances and the alley-oop to Lee was well-designed out of the timeout. Lewis and Hedo carried the Magic and Howard made his FTs and got a lot of boards.
I was especially impressed with JJ, that 3 he hit towards the end of regulation was clutch.
I was especially impressed with JJ, that 3 he hit towards the end of regulation was clutch.
#1060
What Would Don Draper Do?
Damn good game. Bummed the magic couldn't pull it out. They certainly had their chances and the alley-oop to Lee was well-designed out of the timeout. Lewis and Hedo carried the Magic and Howard made his FTs and got a lot of boards.
I was especially impressed with JJ, that 3 he hit towards the end of regulation was clutch.
I was especially impressed with JJ, that 3 he hit towards the end of regulation was clutch.
i never liked the kid when he was at duke because 1) he was awesome, and 2) i didn't like duke.
but since he's been in the league, i've been secretly rooting for him. there was this quote of his once. he said something like "realistically, i'll probably end up being a role player in the nba just like 80% of the players are."
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
![Shrug](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif)
so when he hit the 3, i was going nuts. too bad he had that dumb turnover in OT though. hope he gets some confidence going because i think he can play an important role in this series.
and D12 needs to stop letting the lakers slap the ball away from him. must have happened like 4 or 5 times in the 4th.
#1061
Suzuka Master
Yea, I f-ckin hate Duke with a passion. JJ did a good job of not turning the ball over except for OT and setting some good picks.
How sick was Hedo's block of Kobe? Whiny beatch was crying foul but it was nothing but ball. D12 definitely needs to hold onto the ball and take it to the rim and what's up with the Magic being 3 on 2 or 2 on 1 and not driving to the hole? Lewis had more than one opportunity to drive to the rim on fast breaks but they seem content on settling for the perimeter. The fast break points scored by the Magic in this series is borderline pathetic
How sick was Hedo's block of Kobe? Whiny beatch was crying foul but it was nothing but ball. D12 definitely needs to hold onto the ball and take it to the rim and what's up with the Magic being 3 on 2 or 2 on 1 and not driving to the hole? Lewis had more than one opportunity to drive to the rim on fast breaks but they seem content on settling for the perimeter. The fast break points scored by the Magic in this series is borderline pathetic
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
#1062
What Would Don Draper Do?
yea that block was so clean. kobe beat him on the drive too, but he made it up and got a clean block. it was so nice.
at kobe calling for a foul.
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
#1063
I shoot people
the Lakers just needs to take ONE game of the 3 in Orlando...
#1067
Suzuka Master
Still, can't hate on him because he's still a rookie and plays with a lot of maturity. Staying at Western Kentucky for 4 years definitely allowed him to mature as a player
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
#1069
What Would Don Draper Do?
i hope courtney lee doesn't go nick anderson with the missed layups because i really like what i've seen in his game, and i think he has a bright future. superstar? no. but he looks like he'll have a solid pro career.
#1071
Suzuka Master
Do you think Lee has a role as a starter? Once Nelson is back and healthy, would you run Lee or Skip To My Lou as the 2nd guard? Iono if Lee will be content coming off the bench all of next year
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
#1073
My Garage not
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jun 2006
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you would never run alston and nelson together. they're too small to both be playing at the same time. lee is (listed at) 6-5 and can play pretty decent defense on anyone around his size. kobe's too big for lee to guard...among other reasons.
#1074
Suzuka Master
Yea, I agree with that assessment. A.J. is 6'3" but I would put him lower on the depth chart behind Lee. No way Lee can guard Kobe 1 on 1, you need someone Pietrus' size but he got into all kinds of foul trouble yesterday.
#1075
What Would Don Draper Do?
but next year? i wouldn't be surprised if orlando did play skip and nelson together at times. but i dunno if it's the smart thing to start them. maybe during the course of the game depending on who they're playing, i guess.
![Shrug](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif)
interesting from bill simmons:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...8&sportCat=nba
Important note: Kobe's reputation as a "killer" at the end of games remains overblown. The site www.82games.com just posted a study of game-winning shots from the last five-plus seasons (regular seasons and playoffs since the 2003-04 season) that revealed Kobe was shooting 14-for-56 (25 percent) with one assist and five turnovers, and made 12 of 15 free throws. So let's say that was 70 possessions total, including Sunday night. ... He only had one assist in nearly six years??? That's why Orlando quadruple-teamed him in that spot. Kobe is a phenomenal streak shooter, and he has a real talent for catching fire with a lead and closing games out ... but you can stop him in one-shot situations simply because he's his own worst enemy. He wants to be a hero, he's shooting it, and that's that.
0:00.6: Funniest moment of the game: Kobe storms back to the bench, whacks the chair in disgust and sits down as Phil Jackson (already sitting) looks at him with a bemused, "Should I point out to him that MJ absolutely would have passed there?" smile on his face. Classic.
My biggest issue with this Lakers team: Normally when teams get over the hump and win the title, everyone pitches in and there's a selflessness that manifests itself as the playoffs go along. For instance, Jordan's Bulls never totally came together until Jackson screamed at MJ to start finding a wide-open John Paxson in Game 5 of the 1991 Finals; from that point on, MJ dropped the Hero Complex and started trusting his teammates. What's weird is that Kobe isn't 100 percent there yet, but the Lakers are going to win the title, anyway. It has never happened in NBA Finals history before. At least as far as I can tell.
0:00.6: Funniest moment of the game: Kobe storms back to the bench, whacks the chair in disgust and sits down as Phil Jackson (already sitting) looks at him with a bemused, "Should I point out to him that MJ absolutely would have passed there?" smile on his face. Classic.
My biggest issue with this Lakers team: Normally when teams get over the hump and win the title, everyone pitches in and there's a selflessness that manifests itself as the playoffs go along. For instance, Jordan's Bulls never totally came together until Jackson screamed at MJ to start finding a wide-open John Paxson in Game 5 of the 1991 Finals; from that point on, MJ dropped the Hero Complex and started trusting his teammates. What's weird is that Kobe isn't 100 percent there yet, but the Lakers are going to win the title, anyway. It has never happened in NBA Finals history before. At least as far as I can tell.
11:41: Nelson bricks both freebies, followed by a great "What the eff was that?" face from Hedo Turkoglu. Hedo might have the best "What the eff was that?" face in sports right now. And really, that's the only time you will ever see the words "best" and "face" in the same sentence as "Hedo."
#1080
Moderator Alumnus
Originally Posted by Bill Simmons
0:26: Lewis makes a crazy 3-pointer. L.A. by three. Lewis' line: 34 points, 11 rebounds and seven assists. The entire city of Seattle will now try to light itself on fire ... and fail, because it's raining.
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)