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Hockey: News and Discussion Thread
#1401
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by BstonBruin
This is terrible this back and forth stuff and everytime you get some hope but then you find out that they're not gonna play this season anyways
Bstonbruin, who thinks Junkster knows his hockey
Bstonbruin, who thinks Junkster knows his hockey
Hockey's hockey, no?
#1403
Senior Moderator
Players still bristling at cap systems
Bob McKenzie, TSN.ca Staff
1/28/2005
The first two clues that things didn't go well in Thursday's bargaining session between the NHL and NHL Players Association came moments after the meeting ended: no further meetings planned; significant philosophical differences.
But now that the NHLPA is in the process of updating its membership on the status of negotiations, there are details filtering out as to specifically what the players don't like about what the NHL proposed on Thursday.
Technically, the NHL did not provide a formal written proposal at the meeting. But it did propose concepts to the NHLPA, concepts that appear not to have been well received.
Sources have told TSN the NHLPA's primary problem continues to be with the NHL's insistence on cost certainty or a hard salary cap. The NHLPA is characterizing what the NHL offered as a "triple cap."
Sources also say there is an individual team salary cap of $42 million, with teams permitted to spend within a payroll range of $32 million at the low end and $42 million at the high end.
But it is the players' contention that there is also an overall league cap of 54 per cent of revenues and that if teams were to collectively spend in excess of 54 per cent on player salaries in any year, the individual team cap of $42 million would be reduced significantly.
Sources add the NHL put forth a proposed cap on individual players salaries, at $6 million per year.
Salary arbitration is another area of concern for the players and they reportedly were not enamoured with the modifications that the league proposed. Sources say the league proposed a system where players would have all salary increases in arbitration capped at or limited to 25 per cent and that the arbitration awards could be one, two or three years in length. Teams would also have the right to take players to arbitration. In the expired agreement, only players could elect to go to arbitration.
Sources also say the players aren't pleased with the NHL's proposal on revenue sharing, citing it as not "meaningful" enough.
The concepts proposed at Thursday's meeting in New York were reportedly for a six-year term, with an NHLPA-triggered re-opener after four years.
Bob McKenzie, TSN.ca Staff
1/28/2005
The first two clues that things didn't go well in Thursday's bargaining session between the NHL and NHL Players Association came moments after the meeting ended: no further meetings planned; significant philosophical differences.
But now that the NHLPA is in the process of updating its membership on the status of negotiations, there are details filtering out as to specifically what the players don't like about what the NHL proposed on Thursday.
Technically, the NHL did not provide a formal written proposal at the meeting. But it did propose concepts to the NHLPA, concepts that appear not to have been well received.
Sources have told TSN the NHLPA's primary problem continues to be with the NHL's insistence on cost certainty or a hard salary cap. The NHLPA is characterizing what the NHL offered as a "triple cap."
Sources also say there is an individual team salary cap of $42 million, with teams permitted to spend within a payroll range of $32 million at the low end and $42 million at the high end.
But it is the players' contention that there is also an overall league cap of 54 per cent of revenues and that if teams were to collectively spend in excess of 54 per cent on player salaries in any year, the individual team cap of $42 million would be reduced significantly.
Sources add the NHL put forth a proposed cap on individual players salaries, at $6 million per year.
Salary arbitration is another area of concern for the players and they reportedly were not enamoured with the modifications that the league proposed. Sources say the league proposed a system where players would have all salary increases in arbitration capped at or limited to 25 per cent and that the arbitration awards could be one, two or three years in length. Teams would also have the right to take players to arbitration. In the expired agreement, only players could elect to go to arbitration.
Sources also say the players aren't pleased with the NHL's proposal on revenue sharing, citing it as not "meaningful" enough.
The concepts proposed at Thursday's meeting in New York were reportedly for a six-year term, with an NHLPA-triggered re-opener after four years.
#1405
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Coloroda Avalance Peter Worrel Arrested w/ a fake ID...your not gonna belive this one
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=1975106
Officer: Told me he was his Sweedish Teammate
Associated Press
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- Colorado Avalanche forward Peter Worrell identified himself as another NHL player and former teammate when he was arrested last month on a traffic violation, according to a police report.
Worrell was driving an SUV owned by Andreas Lilja when he was pulled over Dec. 6 in Pompano Beach for driving with an expired tag, according to an arrest report from the Broward County Sheriff's Office.
Worrell, who is 6-foot-7 and black, repeatedly identified himself as Lilja, a 6-foot-3 Swede who is white, Deputy Lionel Davis wrote in his report.
"After asking the defendant several times his name, Worrell continued to deliberately falsify and obstruct my investigation," Davis wrote. The officer said he cleared up the misidentification when he found Worrell's passport in the SUV.
The two were teammates with the Florida Panthers in 2002-03.
Worrell was charged with driving with a suspended license and resisting arrest without violence, both misdemeanors, the state attorney's office said. His attorney, Mitchell Polay, declined to comment Tuesday.
Worrell is scheduled to be arraigned Wednesday. He lives in Coral Springs, Fla.
Because of the NHL lockout, Lilja has yet to play for his latest team, the Nashville Predators.
Worrell has 19 goals and 27 assists in seven NHL season, but has racked up 1,554 penalty minutes.
He has also had other run-ins with the law. Twice he has been convicted of drunken driving. In June 2002, he was arrested for DUI, leaving the scene of an accident and criminal mischief for kicking a police car's window. He pleaded no contest and was sentenced to 10 days in jail.
heres the pics
Peter Worrell
Andreas Lilja
Um yeah I guess they kinda look alike
Officer: Told me he was his Sweedish Teammate
Associated Press
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- Colorado Avalanche forward Peter Worrell identified himself as another NHL player and former teammate when he was arrested last month on a traffic violation, according to a police report.
Worrell was driving an SUV owned by Andreas Lilja when he was pulled over Dec. 6 in Pompano Beach for driving with an expired tag, according to an arrest report from the Broward County Sheriff's Office.
Worrell, who is 6-foot-7 and black, repeatedly identified himself as Lilja, a 6-foot-3 Swede who is white, Deputy Lionel Davis wrote in his report.
"After asking the defendant several times his name, Worrell continued to deliberately falsify and obstruct my investigation," Davis wrote. The officer said he cleared up the misidentification when he found Worrell's passport in the SUV.
The two were teammates with the Florida Panthers in 2002-03.
Worrell was charged with driving with a suspended license and resisting arrest without violence, both misdemeanors, the state attorney's office said. His attorney, Mitchell Polay, declined to comment Tuesday.
Worrell is scheduled to be arraigned Wednesday. He lives in Coral Springs, Fla.
Because of the NHL lockout, Lilja has yet to play for his latest team, the Nashville Predators.
Worrell has 19 goals and 27 assists in seven NHL season, but has racked up 1,554 penalty minutes.
He has also had other run-ins with the law. Twice he has been convicted of drunken driving. In June 2002, he was arrested for DUI, leaving the scene of an accident and criminal mischief for kicking a police car's window. He pleaded no contest and was sentenced to 10 days in jail.
heres the pics
Peter Worrell
Andreas Lilja
Um yeah I guess they kinda look alike
Last edited by MemRheins; 01-30-2005 at 05:13 PM.
#1417
registered pw
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Originally Posted by cTLgo
there are african american hockey players?
#1421
Race Director
Hope
Key Points in NHL Proposal
Thu Feb 3, 3:30 AM ET
By The Associated Press
A look at key points in the NHL's proposal Wednesday to the NHL Players' Association:
AGREEMENT LENGTH:@ The deal would cover the 2004-05 season and the following six seasons through 2010-11. The players' association would have the sole right to reopen the agreement after four years.
SALARY CAP:@ The new system would ensure that total league-wide player compensation in any year will not be under 53 percent of the league's revenues or exceed 55 percent. If teams spend less than 53 percent of the NHL's revenues, they will be required to contribute additional dollars to a pool to be distributed to the players.
FLOATING TEAM PAYROLL:@ The new range was established by averaging total team payrolls, reflecting the NHL's acceptance of the players' association offer to roll back all existing contracts by 24 percent. Each team would be required to spend at least $29.8 million in player salaries ($32 million including benefits) and no more than $40 million in salaries ($42.2 million including benefits)
UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENCY:@ Age for Group 3 free agency reduced to age 30 beginning with the 2006-07 season.
ENTRY LEVEL SYSTEM:@ Four-year, two-way rookie contracts that would cap salaries at $850,000 per year — including signing and performance bonuses. The signing bonus maximum in each year would be $100,000 for draft picks 1-5; $75,000 for picks 6-15; $50,000 for picks 16-30; and $40,000 for picks 31 and up. The league also proposed giving its own entry-level bonuses, awarding $500,000 to entry-level players who win the Hart, Norris, Vezina and Selke trophies; $400,000 to second-place finishers; $300,000 for a third-place finish; $200,000 for fourth; and $100,000 for fifth place.
RESTRICTED FREE AGENCY:@ Qualifying offers from teams would have to be 100 percent of the previous year's salary to players earning less than $800,000; and 75 percent or $800,000, whichever is greater, to players who earned $800,000 or more the previous season. The right-to-match and draft choice compensation remain the same from the previous agreement.
SALARY ARBITRATION:@ Mutual process in which players and clubs have same rights to request arbitration. In old system, only players could request arbitration. Arbitration was eliminated in NHL's Dec. 14 offer. The NHL would reserve the right to eliminate arbitration at any time by, giving players unrestricted free agency at 28 in return.
PLAYER CONTRACTS:@ Minimum salary increased 62 percent to $300,000 per year. Guaranteed contracts would remain in existence but the maximum length would be three years. Current contracts would be grandfathered.
PROFIT SHARING:@ The NHL would share profits equally with the players' association once a negotiated threshold is exceeded.
JOINT AUDIT:@ Each year's accounting will be performed by an independent firm. There would be a mandatory $2 million fine and loss of a first-round draft pick for clubs that fail to disclose required financial information. A repeat offense would bring a $5 million fine and loss of three first-round draft picks.
2004-05 SEASON:@ To compensate players for a shortened 2004-05 regular season with a full playoffs, the NHLPA would share money generated from the 2005 postseason to ensure they receive 53 percent of league revenues for the season.
JOINT OWNER-PLAYER COUNCIL:@ Establishment of a council to meet on a regular basis to discuss issues of mutual interest relating both to business and game-related matters
Thu Feb 3, 3:30 AM ET
By The Associated Press
A look at key points in the NHL's proposal Wednesday to the NHL Players' Association:
AGREEMENT LENGTH:@ The deal would cover the 2004-05 season and the following six seasons through 2010-11. The players' association would have the sole right to reopen the agreement after four years.
SALARY CAP:@ The new system would ensure that total league-wide player compensation in any year will not be under 53 percent of the league's revenues or exceed 55 percent. If teams spend less than 53 percent of the NHL's revenues, they will be required to contribute additional dollars to a pool to be distributed to the players.
FLOATING TEAM PAYROLL:@ The new range was established by averaging total team payrolls, reflecting the NHL's acceptance of the players' association offer to roll back all existing contracts by 24 percent. Each team would be required to spend at least $29.8 million in player salaries ($32 million including benefits) and no more than $40 million in salaries ($42.2 million including benefits)
UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENCY:@ Age for Group 3 free agency reduced to age 30 beginning with the 2006-07 season.
ENTRY LEVEL SYSTEM:@ Four-year, two-way rookie contracts that would cap salaries at $850,000 per year — including signing and performance bonuses. The signing bonus maximum in each year would be $100,000 for draft picks 1-5; $75,000 for picks 6-15; $50,000 for picks 16-30; and $40,000 for picks 31 and up. The league also proposed giving its own entry-level bonuses, awarding $500,000 to entry-level players who win the Hart, Norris, Vezina and Selke trophies; $400,000 to second-place finishers; $300,000 for a third-place finish; $200,000 for fourth; and $100,000 for fifth place.
RESTRICTED FREE AGENCY:@ Qualifying offers from teams would have to be 100 percent of the previous year's salary to players earning less than $800,000; and 75 percent or $800,000, whichever is greater, to players who earned $800,000 or more the previous season. The right-to-match and draft choice compensation remain the same from the previous agreement.
SALARY ARBITRATION:@ Mutual process in which players and clubs have same rights to request arbitration. In old system, only players could request arbitration. Arbitration was eliminated in NHL's Dec. 14 offer. The NHL would reserve the right to eliminate arbitration at any time by, giving players unrestricted free agency at 28 in return.
PLAYER CONTRACTS:@ Minimum salary increased 62 percent to $300,000 per year. Guaranteed contracts would remain in existence but the maximum length would be three years. Current contracts would be grandfathered.
PROFIT SHARING:@ The NHL would share profits equally with the players' association once a negotiated threshold is exceeded.
JOINT AUDIT:@ Each year's accounting will be performed by an independent firm. There would be a mandatory $2 million fine and loss of a first-round draft pick for clubs that fail to disclose required financial information. A repeat offense would bring a $5 million fine and loss of three first-round draft picks.
2004-05 SEASON:@ To compensate players for a shortened 2004-05 regular season with a full playoffs, the NHLPA would share money generated from the 2005 postseason to ensure they receive 53 percent of league revenues for the season.
JOINT OWNER-PLAYER COUNCIL:@ Establishment of a council to meet on a regular basis to discuss issues of mutual interest relating both to business and game-related matters
#1423
Senior Moderator
With NHL in lockout and the NBA being what it is, it's gonna be a long drought between the Super Bowl and MLB Spring Training.
#1424
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by F23A4
With NHL in lockout and the NBA being what it is, it's gonna be a long drought between the Super Bowl and MLB Spring Training.
After the SB I'm not sure what the hell I'll watch until football starts up again in Sept
#1426
Senior Moderator
The season will be declared over by Friday I think...
#1427
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by 98CLChick
Chelios, Hatcher, and Draper signed with a minor league team near me...The Motown Mechanics
At least I'll have some decent hockey to watch now
At least I'll have some decent hockey to watch now
At the expense of 3 poor bastards who WERE making $500 a week.
#1428
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by domn
At the expense of 3 poor bastards who WERE making $500 a week.
WTF are the players being so stupid? They are willing to lace it up for petty cash (next to what they usually would earn in the NHL) but are not willing to negotiate a salary cap which in the end still allows them to earn millions?
#1430
Teh ?
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Well, there goes one season... I'm 50-50 on whether next season will happen. The death of NHL doesn't seem too much of a far shot...
I had a discussion with another Avs fan earlier during lunch... why doesn't the more profitable and popular teams just form their own league? Bettman and the NHL are fallin apart at the seams... why not just make a 12~20 team league run by a new organization. Local papers here in Denver have quoted Kronke as saying that he's frustrated by the league and that he's losing money every day that his team can't take the ice.
And, of course, there is the rumor that the league will use replacements for next season if negotiations fail with the player's association.
Junkster, who would watch the scabs... if the tickets were half price
I had a discussion with another Avs fan earlier during lunch... why doesn't the more profitable and popular teams just form their own league? Bettman and the NHL are fallin apart at the seams... why not just make a 12~20 team league run by a new organization. Local papers here in Denver have quoted Kronke as saying that he's frustrated by the league and that he's losing money every day that his team can't take the ice.
And, of course, there is the rumor that the league will use replacements for next season if negotiations fail with the player's association.
Junkster, who would watch the scabs... if the tickets were half price
#1431
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by domn
G R E E D
I have GT4 on the PS2 to keep me occupied this winter.
#1432
Teh ?
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Originally Posted by Yumchah
I have GT4 on the PS2 to keep me occupied this winter.
Yea, I'm not too sorry for them at all... the players know that a majority of the teams aren't pulling in huge profits for their huge salaries. More teams have diluted the talent AND the money.
Yea, and the playing style teh suxorz... no speed to the game whatsoever.
Good ridence... I'll just follow my nuggies and attend Rockies games for a good tan and a beer (okay a FEW beers)...
Junkster, who thinks the league is dead
#1433
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Yumchah
I'm apathetic to the sport anyhow these days...So, lock them out until 2050 for all I care. One, there are too many teams and talent is too diluted now. Scoring is down esp. with pretty much every team trying to emulate the New Jersey Devils. Two, the team I always follow is a perpetual farm team (Chicago Blackhawks) and will never contend until its senior management croaks or sells which is probably never...So, meh...
I have GT4 on the PS2 to keep me occupied this winter.
I have GT4 on the PS2 to keep me occupied this winter.
That's pretty much how I feel as well. I cant give them any sympathy when necessary services like Police, Fire and Ambulance (and maybe teachers) are fighting for so much less and they're so much more important.
Sorry pro athletes. I enjoy watching you guys but you're too far above the poverty line for me to sympathize with your cause. (BTW, the owners are equally pathetic.)
#1434
The sizzle in the Steak
This thing is over. Get ready for scab players in October. Bettman will break the players union....then the lockout will be over. Then Bettman and Goodenhow will head off into the sunset having done their job of destroying the NHL.
#1435
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
This thing is over. Get ready for scab players in October. Bettman will break the players union....then the lockout will be over. Then Bettman and Goodenhow will head off into the sunset having done their job of destroying the NHL.
Not sure how it works in the US but in Canada labour laws dictate that replacement workers are not allowed so it ain't happening here. Not likely to happen in the US either.
Bettman has done a great job of destroying the league for the last ten years or so, this is just the icing on the cake.
#1436
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by domn
Not sure how it works in the US but in Canada labour laws dictate that replacement workers are not allowed so it ain't happening here. Not likely to happen in the US either.
Bettman has done a great job of destroying the league for the last ten years or so, this is just the icing on the cake.
Bettman has done a great job of destroying the league for the last ten years or so, this is just the icing on the cake.
#1437
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
This thing is over. Get ready for scab players in October. Bettman will break the players union....then the lockout will be over. Then Bettman and Goodenhow will head off into the sunset having done their job of destroying the NHL.
I still say the NFL is the best model to emulate when setting up a sports league. Anyhow, my new hockey team to follow are the Chicago Wolves!
#1438
The sizzle in the Steak
Larry Brooks of the NY Post had this take on the NHL lockout, and the issue of replacement players taking the ice next season:
IF the package threat of impasse, implementation and presentation of a scab 2005-06 NHL season remains the foundation of the league's refusal to negotiate anything other than a hard cap with the union — and it is — then no two individuals are at greater risk than Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky. Because if the league goes forward with its plan to break the union by opening training camps under a unilaterally-implemented cap system, it is certainly going to expect No. 66 to be on the ice with his replacement Penguins, and it is certainly going to expect No. 99 to be behind the bench of his replacement Coyotes, now that Gretzky has publicly admitted to having credible interest in coaching.
Lemieux and Gretzky had best understand that the league would have no qualms about demanding that the two greatest hockey icons of the era place their reputations on the line to prop up a replacement league. For how could Gary Bettman and the Board of Governors run such an endeavor if Lemieux refused to play in it; how could they succeed in attempting to coerce players to join the union-busting if the only owner/player in the league refused to endorse the effort by becoming a member of it? How could they even attempt to sell tickets if unable to convince part-owner Gretzky to coach in the replacement league?
The participations of Lemieux and Gretzky in such a sham would blacken their reputations for all eternity. Their days as shining representatives of Team Canada would immediately come to an end. Few elite Canadian players — if any — would accept an invitation to play for their country if it were to mean dressing beside union-buster Lemieux. Few elite Canadian players — if any — would accept an invitation to play for their country if the team were to be run by a union-busting Gretzky.
Fact is, if Lemieux and Gretzky were to lend their names and faces to the league's marketing effort to sell scab hockey, they'd immediately be excommunicated by the players. Forget the goals, the assists, the Stanley Cups, the Olympics, the Canada Cups, the World Cups, the records and the smiles they've generated. All that will recede into the background, the way Pete Rose's 4,256 hits have become nothing more than an interesting footnote to his biography. Instead, Lemieux and Gretzky will become known forever as union-busters, as mere pawns utilized by the commissioner and the Board to win a power struggle against the players.
Lemieux and Gretzky had best understand that the league would have no qualms about demanding that the two greatest hockey icons of the era place their reputations on the line to prop up a replacement league. For how could Gary Bettman and the Board of Governors run such an endeavor if Lemieux refused to play in it; how could they succeed in attempting to coerce players to join the union-busting if the only owner/player in the league refused to endorse the effort by becoming a member of it? How could they even attempt to sell tickets if unable to convince part-owner Gretzky to coach in the replacement league?
The participations of Lemieux and Gretzky in such a sham would blacken their reputations for all eternity. Their days as shining representatives of Team Canada would immediately come to an end. Few elite Canadian players — if any — would accept an invitation to play for their country if it were to mean dressing beside union-buster Lemieux. Few elite Canadian players — if any — would accept an invitation to play for their country if the team were to be run by a union-busting Gretzky.
Fact is, if Lemieux and Gretzky were to lend their names and faces to the league's marketing effort to sell scab hockey, they'd immediately be excommunicated by the players. Forget the goals, the assists, the Stanley Cups, the Olympics, the Canada Cups, the World Cups, the records and the smiles they've generated. All that will recede into the background, the way Pete Rose's 4,256 hits have become nothing more than an interesting footnote to his biography. Instead, Lemieux and Gretzky will become known forever as union-busters, as mere pawns utilized by the commissioner and the Board to win a power struggle against the players.
#1439
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Originally Posted by domn
Not sure how it works in the US but in Canada labour laws dictate that replacement workers are not allowed so it ain't happening here. Not likely to happen in the US either.
Bettman has done a great job of destroying the league for the last ten years or so, this is just the icing on the cake.
Bettman has done a great job of destroying the league for the last ten years or so, this is just the icing on the cake.
I blame both sides... the players are being too greedy, especially in the face of tough economy. It's not like all the owners are making a buttload of money... some haven't been in the black in a long time. And there's no way some of the smaller market teams can afford any talent if there's no cap.
The cap is needed... NFL does fine with caps, so does the NBA... The NHL is the worst off financially, so it should make sense to have a cap.
Junkster, who will be watching soccer anyhow
#1440
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Moog-Type-S
Larry Brooks of the NY Post had this take on the NHL lockout, and the issue of replacement players taking the ice next season:
I couldn't agree with that article more. Which is why I'm sure Wayne and Mario would never do it. Their reptation would remain perfectly intact as team owners however. As long as they keep their mouth shut.