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Hockey: News and Discussion Thread

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Old 12-13-2004 | 03:04 PM
  #1241  
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I think the players proposal could work if penalty for exceeding the "soft salary cap" would be a little more punitive. For example, teams would pay a tax that would be 80 cents for every dollar they go over the cap. This would only work if the owners continue their existing behaviors...i.e. owners not willing to redistribute their tax dollars to the financially weaker teams.
Old 12-13-2004 | 03:08 PM
  #1242  
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Hey Jayhawk, Can't wait for the GT/KU game on Jan 1. Should be the 1st real test for both teams. As for Hockey....don't miss it a bit.
Old 12-13-2004 | 03:14 PM
  #1243  
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OMG, I am going through withdrawl. I pretty much plan my life around the Flyers during the winter, and now I fell naked without it. I am stuck watching the AHL, which is on like once in a blue moon...I think I am going to ask Santa this year for hockey and nothing else.
Old 12-13-2004 | 03:18 PM
  #1244  
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Who the fuck are you tell whats a good sport? You got a freakin bird as your avator. You might as well write I'M GAY all over you avator and get it over with! BITCH!

Your new name is GAY-HAWK69! BAHHAHAHAHHAHA


Originally Posted by jayhawk815


He hates on everything, except, of course, mens gymnastics and possibly figure skating.
Old 12-13-2004 | 03:20 PM
  #1245  
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Originally Posted by MADCAT
Who the fuck are you tell whats a good sport?
What????

So what sport do you like?
Old 12-13-2004 | 03:24 PM
  #1246  
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WORLD CUP SOCCER
TOUR DE FRANCE
WWF Wrestling
Auto Racing..

everything else is gay.


Originally Posted by bearback27
What????

So what sport do you like?
Old 12-13-2004 | 03:44 PM
  #1247  
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From: Sunshine State
Points for picking Football - nice choice
Tour De Stupid - Shitty country, not a fan of the sport.
WWF - I thought its the WWE?
Auto Racing - F1 that's good....
Old 12-13-2004 | 03:58 PM
  #1248  
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Originally Posted by MADCAT
WORLD CUP SOCCER
TOUR DE FRANCE
WWF Wrestling
Auto Racing..

everything else is gay.
Personally I think WWE is :gheyfight: .. actors... men greased up... body slamming each other... grabbing crotches... laying on one another in compromising positions...
Old 12-13-2004 | 04:26 PM
  #1249  
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Originally Posted by MADCAT
Who the fuck are you tell whats a good sport? You got a freakin bird as your avator. You might as well write I'M GAY all over you avator and get it over with! BITCH!

Your new name is GAY-HAWK69! BAHHAHAHAHHAHA
Can someone remind me why MadCat hasnt been banned yet?

PS: Totally agree with Logic717 on the WWE. You wanna talk Gay? There you have it.
Old 12-13-2004 | 05:04 PM
  #1250  
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WWF or whatever is :ghey:
Old 12-13-2004 | 05:12 PM
  #1251  
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Originally Posted by SG81
WWF or whatever is :ghey:





btw, i do not miss hockey at all the players are waaaaaaaaaaaaay overpaid. 250k a year would be more than enough. i mean, hockey players are paid more than doctors and specialists. what's up with that? hockey players dont save lives or anything...
Old 12-13-2004 | 09:46 PM
  #1252  
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^--- Neither do baseball players, football players, or basketball players.
Old 12-13-2004 | 09:57 PM
  #1253  
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Originally Posted by HQuakers
^--- Neither do baseball players, football players, or basketball players.
Pts. for u... anything over 1 or 2 mil per year is a bit much... but then u would have to put a cap on ownership profits... imagine how much george stienbrenner (sp) would be pocketing if there was a true salary cap in baseball? Re-dam-diculous...
Old 12-14-2004 | 03:37 AM
  #1254  
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Originally Posted by MADCAT
Who the fuck are you tell whats a good sport? You got a freakin bird as your avator. You might as well write I'M GAY all over you avator and get it over with! BITCH!

Your new name is GAY-HAWK69! BAHHAHAHAHHAHA
All you did by posting this was continue to lower everyone's respect for you. Obviously, that "bird" is a Jayhawk, as in the mascot for the University of Kansas. We have one of the best basketball programs in NCAA history. If anyone's sexuality should be questioned, it's yours(re: :ghey. From this point foward, you speaking privileges have been revoked(we only wish). Also, I am quite surprised you had the intelligence to figure out that my avatar depicts a bird.

Originally Posted by 69ssrscam
Hey Jayhawk, Can't wait for the GT/KU game on Jan 1. Should be the 1st real test for both teams. As for Hockey....don't miss it a bit.
Hell Yeah!!! That should be one hell of a game, a little rematch from last year's NCAA tournament. Both have top notch teams. Any friendly wagers?

P.S. Sorry about the .
Old 12-14-2004 | 03:47 AM
  #1255  
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LOL...hmmm, dude doesn't like any sports except for wrestling? that means :ghey: where i come from... :gheyfight:
Old 12-14-2004 | 03:57 AM
  #1256  
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and i'm with you guys regarding hockey....once the football (NFL) season is over, i don't know what i'm gonna do although the phoenix suns are playing some exciting basketball plus march madness will be cool...but still. i want more...

for you canooks out there....at least the world juniors are coming up soon. that tournament is always a highlight of mine around christmas. it's always good, exciting hockey and they play for all the right reasons too - they really bust their asses out there both canada and the US should contend for gold...
Old 12-14-2004 | 08:48 AM
  #1257  
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Am I the only sane person here? Wrestling is for real men! They don’t play fruity games like baseball or hockey. They beat the hell out of each other. What gays about that?
Old 12-14-2004 | 09:29 AM
  #1258  
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Originally Posted by MADCAT
Am I the only sane person here? Wrestling is for real men! They don’t play fruity games like baseball or hockey. They beat the hell out of each other. What gays about that?
the fact that its all acting...
Old 12-14-2004 | 07:56 PM
  #1259  
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Originally Posted by MADCAT
Am I the only sane person here? Wrestling is for real men! They don’t play fruity games like baseball or hockey. They beat the hell out of each other. What gays about that?

no madcat...wrestling is a soap opera geared towards 14 yr old boys! seriously! you are whacked in the head dude! they don't beat the hell out of each other at all you retard! it's called acting! omg...i dont fuckin believe you sometimes! you're 29?!? i apologize if it comes to light that you have some sort of learning disability, i really do...but what the hell is wrong with you man????????
Old 12-15-2004 | 02:01 AM
  #1260  
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Originally Posted by gordon_gekko
no madcat...wrestling is a soap opera geared towards 14 yr old boys! seriously! you are whacked in the head dude! they don't beat the hell out of each other at all you retard! it's called acting! omg...i dont fuckin believe you sometimes! you're 29?!? i apologize if it comes to light that you have some sort of learning disability, i really do...but what the hell is wrong with you man????????


Nailed it on the head. It did come to light. They do suffer some inherent injuries, but seriously, it's geared towards the young/uneducated.
Old 12-15-2004 | 08:06 AM
  #1261  
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dom
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TORONTO (CP) - The NHL season isn't dead yet, but it is on its last legs.

The cautious optimism accompanied by last week's offer by the NHL Players' Association was replaced by doom and gloom Tuesday as both sides of the NHL labour battle officially rejected each other's proposals.

And they made crystal clear what has long been outlined as the main hurdles in their dispute. The NHL wants "cost certainty" in the form of a salary cap. The NHLPA refuses to adhere to an "idiot-proof" system that acts as an economic safety net for owners.


Related Info
Excerpts from Bettman's speech
Excerpts from Goodenow's speech
What they said: Conference Quotes
McKenzie: I've got a news flash for both sides
The philosophical gap widens
Prime Minister offers intervention
Proposals Rejected
1-on-1 with Goodenow
Making sense of it all
More from the panel
The NHLPA's Proposal
The NHL's Counter Proposal

Both sides have painted themselves into a corner, leaving little room for compromise. The union says it will never accept a salary cap, the league says it will never sign off on any of the union's luxury-tax proposals.

"We have no interest in a luxury tax at any level at any threshhold," NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said dismissively during his news conference Tuesday.

Countered a scornful NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow: "He (Bettman) remains fixated on the salary cap solution. And as long as that's the case, there's going to be problems."

Both news conferences differed in style and atmosphere. Bettman sounded calm and composed, as if it was just another day at the office. Goodenow appeared to have steam coming out of his ears, an anger perhaps triggered earlier in the day when the league shredded the union's offer behind closed doors.

The league may hope to wait out the players before finally getting its cap. But the players have resolve - and 24 months' worth of limited lockout pay to fight it.

"Hockey players have always stuck together, they know what it's like to be on a team, they know how important that is," Vancouver Canucks veteran Trevor Linden, the NHLPA's membership president, said after the union's news conference. "I spoke to over 50 players over the weekend. We're extremely strong, we stick together, and I'm extremely confident that that will continue to be the case."

So what now?

The season is not totally lost yet. There were breaks in talks 10 years ago as well during the last lockout before the deal was finally reached in mid-January. The same can still happen this time around.

"I think it's a lot different this time around. I'm less optimistic this year," said Dallas Stars winger Bill Guerin, a member of the NHLPA's bargaining committee.

Someone will need to budge.

The union thought it had done just that when it offered a stunning 24 per cent rollback on all existing player salaries last Thursday. At the very least, many had hoped the union's package was worth a starting point in meaningful negotiations.

Instead, the league came back five days later with a salary cap, halting talks in a hurry.

"In short, the league took what they liked from our proposal, made major changes and slapped a salary cap on top of it," Goodenow said. "Put simply, our proposal provides the basis for a negotiated agreement. The NHL's does not."

The league's offer did contain some elements first introduced by the union last week - but they were all tweaked.

The rollback was "restructured" to penalize the richer players and soothe the lower-paid skaters. Any player making $800,000 US or less would not face a pay cut while any player earning over $5 million would give back 35 per cent of his wages.

This would seem like an attempt by the league to break the union or at the very least reach out to the rank and file, the Pierre Dagenais and Mike Commodore of the world who have already waffled publicly on the salary cap.

The league's deal once again introduced the fixed link of player costs with league revenues - a salary cap. The league bumped the players' percentage from 53 per cent to 54 per cent of league revenues, which based on last year's total revenues of $2.1 billion, works out to a maximum team payroll of $38.6 million. The Toronto Maple Leafs would need to chop more than $20 million from their current contract commitments this season alone.

The league also offers a minimum payroll of $34.6 million, meaning the Nashvilles and Edmontons of the world would need to spend a little more cash to get to that level. It's about bringing the haves and have nots together and improving the competitive balance - although the union is quick to point out that small-payroll teams such as Calgary, Anaheim and Carolina reached the past three Stanley Cup finals under the old agreement.

The league based its salary cap numbers on its own projections for future salary inflation and league revenues.

In assessing the NHL presentation, a dismissive Goodenow called the league numbers "wildly unreliable," "mostly made-up" and "completely useless and phoney."

Other comparables from the league's counter-proposal to the union's offer:

- The league liked the union's idea of bringing the entry-level salary to $850,000 a year, but also wants to completely obliterate all possible bonuses. The league also proposed to add a fourth year;

- The league wants to completely discard salary arbitration, rejected the union's offer which featured the possibility of taking players to arbitration to backtrack their salary;

- The cap would replace the union's payroll tax offer;

- The league proposed to change the age for unrestricted free agency from the current 31 and lower it as a concession to the players.

The league detailed this offer to the union in a one-hour presentation Tuesday starting at 1 p.m. EST at the NHL's Toronto offices. The NHLPA asked for a caucus, which lasted 2 1/2 hours, before returning to reject the deal and end the meeting.

There are no future talks planned at this time to end the NHL lockout, which including Tuesday night has wiped out 414 games. And if anything, the gap seemed to widen after Tuesday's get-together.

In the end, someone needs to move. Asked why he thinks the NHLPA might change its position that it won't accept a salary cap or something that links costs and revenue, Bettman said: "Well, work stoppages are historically about changing expectations.

"We've got a problem and we've got to fix it. And at some point the players and the union are going to have to decide that they're going to be part of the solution. That's what it's going to take to get us playing."

In Ottawa, Prime Minister Paul Martin offered federal intervention in NHL labour talks if it would help end the lockout - and if the two sides wanted it.

But one of the few things both the league and the NHL Players' Association have agreed on is that they don't need an outside mediator to get involved, arguing they know their issues best.

The players' association insists that the current marketplace system works - and that it is not up to the players to make up for the owners' mistakes.

"We believe that the old system with good management and good understanding can work well, and we have in fact seen that evidenced by a number of teams," Goodenow said. "There's no question at all about that."

There seemed little suspense going into the meeting after a league memo, obtained by TSN, surfaced Monday with the news that the league had rejected the union's recent offer.

Bettman later told reporters that the league had no part in leaking the memo.

"Actually if I found out who leaked the document, there won't be much reason for you to be talking to that person because their career in the NHL will come to an abrupt end rather quickly," Bettman said.

My Saturday nights are getting boring and it looks like that will continue. In short the leaugue accepted the 24% salary rollback, restructured it so that lower paid players would not suffer and slapped a 34 to 38 million salary cap on the table.
Old 12-15-2004 | 08:15 AM
  #1262  
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dom
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Proposals

Salary rollback

NHLPA
A 24 % rollback for all players under contract; Total rollback of $511 million over three years

NHL
Scaled rollback for all players under contract earning more than $800,000 annually; 43.8 % of players will have no reduction in compensation; 75% of players will have 20% or less reduction; 91.8% of players will have 24% or less reduction; Total rollback of $509 million over three years


Entry Level Modification

NHLPA
$850,000 max annual salary plus signing bonus; $212,500 max annual signing bonus; $850,000 limit on total "A" bonuses per year, with $212,500 limit on each "A" bonus; Unlimited "B" and "C" bonuses

NHL
Accept NHLPA proposed maximum salary with provison of additional mandatory year in all Entry Level contracts, and the elimination of all signing and performance bonuses


Arbitration

NHLPA
Very limited ability of a club to take a Group II player to arbitration

NHL
No salary arbitration -- it produces 46-85% increases in salary and is inflationary


Economic System

NHLPA
Payroll Tax: 20% tax for dollars over $45 million payroll; 50% tax for dollars over $50 million payroll; 60% tax for dollars over $60 million payroll; 5% increases in tax rates for repeat offenders; Negotiated increase in payroll threshold in subsequent years

NHL
Players receive 54% of Hockey-Related Revenues (increase over prior offer of 53.2%); Individual Clubs are obligated to spend no less than 51% and no more than 57% of their 1/30 share of Hockey-Related Revenues; No Payroll Tax -- requires guesswork, continues payroll disparities, and is inflationary


Revenue Sharing

NHLPA
Yes

NHL
Yes


Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agency

NHLPA
No proposal

NHL
Reduce age (and corresponding service requirements) for Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agency from 31 to 30


Minimum Salary

NHLPA
Increase from $185,000 to $250,000

NHL
Increase from $185,000 to $300,000


Median Player Salary

NHLPA
No proposal

NHL
Preserve current Median Player Salary ($800,000)


Qualifying Offer

NHLPA
105% for players earning between $660,000-$1 million; 100% for players earning more than $1 million

NHL
NHLPA proposal is inflationary; NHL proposal is to maintain Qualifying Offers at unspecified rate less than 100%
Old 12-15-2004 | 08:54 AM
  #1263  
TSX 'R' US's Avatar
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thanks for the summary domn...

I can't believe they can't come to a conclusion on this...
Old 12-15-2004 | 07:52 PM
  #1264  
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Originally Posted by jayhawk815


Nailed it on the head. It did come to light. They do suffer some inherent injuries, but seriously, it's geared towards the young/uneducated.
Who gave me neg reps for my posts on this thread. If you disagree, fine, just have the cojones to leave your name.
Old 12-15-2004 | 07:57 PM
  #1265  
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Originally Posted by jayhawk815
Who gave me neg reps for my posts on this thread. If you disagree, fine, just have the cojones to leave your name.

i've been getting alot of neg reps on posts that aren't the least bit controversial...lol, i'll be like "congratulations!" and i'll get negative rep it's probably madfag

i asked teh to start revealing that shit, but he didn't give me a reply
Old 12-16-2004 | 02:30 AM
  #1266  
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Originally Posted by gordon_gekko
i've been getting alot of neg reps on posts that aren't the least bit controversial...lol, i'll be like "congratulations!" and i'll get negative rep it's probably madfag

i asked teh to start revealing that shit, but he didn't give me a reply
While although I wish they would set it up that way, the reality is, they don't. Honestly, though, if you are gonna give sombody rep points, good or bad, you should be required to leave your name. I see no need for anonymity.
Old 12-16-2004 | 03:14 AM
  #1267  
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Originally Posted by domn
My Saturday nights are getting boring and it looks like that will continue.



i miss HNIC


edit: at least bob cole's gone
Old 12-16-2004 | 03:45 AM
  #1268  
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Originally Posted by jayhawk815
Honestly, though, if you are gonna give sombody rep points, good or bad, you should be required to leave your name. I see no need for anonymity.

yeah, 100%...

especially, since the thing that pisses me off, is none of my neg. reps have been on controversial posts (and believe me, i have plenty)! but there's never a swear word, insult, "wacky" liberal idea, nothing!

my neg. reps come on posts where i say "good job!" or "congrats on your purchase!" or "have fun!" etc, etc...it's just retarded! and i'm sure somebody out there is :gheylaugh: right now..cuz they're getting away with it and i have no clue (madcat is a prime suspect, but i almost think it's someone else, trying to be funny...)

and the one red dot i get, among thousands of greens really doesn't bother me...it's just the principle of the whole thing. if i tell somebody to fuck off and i get a red...big deal, i probably deserved it....but when i'm being nice/helpful and i get carded - it just doesn't make sense

So, C'mon... A-TL Brass! Please reveal the light!! It would benefit everybody!!
Old 12-16-2004 | 09:50 AM
  #1269  
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Bob Cole is not bad if you're a leaf fan!

Old 12-16-2004 | 04:00 PM
  #1270  
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I am a Leafs fan and I don't like Bob Cole. I take Joe Bowen over Bob Cole anyday.

But Bob did have few good calls in international plays. (02 Olympic Canada vs USA for example)
Old 12-16-2004 | 04:54 PM
  #1271  
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Haha...my point is that he get's all the Leaf names right (well, 95% of the time) and he fails to name the other team's players during his broadcasts. It's like "left wing passes to center...center makes a pass...it get's intercepted by Leetch." You know what I mean.
Old 12-16-2004 | 07:07 PM
  #1272  
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Originally Posted by TSXforme
Haha...my point is that he get's all the Leaf names right (well, 95% of the time) and he fails to name the other team's players during his broadcasts. It's like "left wing passes to center...center makes a pass...it get's intercepted by Leetch." You know what I mean.
I know what you mean, he always got things wrong in non-Leafs boardcasts, thats why I said in my last post that Bob Cole did have some good games before in international tournaments.
Old 12-16-2004 | 07:59 PM
  #1273  
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From: Dooram, NC
Nieuwndyk = 38
Roberts = 38
Mogilny = 35
Leetch = 36
Belfour = 39

Quinn = looks 90.

I honestly thought this would be the year to see the leafs win the cup.

At least Boston had a curse.
Old 12-16-2004 | 08:04 PM
  #1274  
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From: Toronto
Originally Posted by pby
Nieuwndyk = 38
Roberts = 38
Mogilny = 35
Leetch = 36
Belfour = 39

Quinn = looks 90.

I honestly thought this would be the year to see the leafs win the cup.

At least Boston had a curse.
Leafs are having a curse. Lockout or not I still don't think they can complete with Devils/Flyers in the east.

I just hope they can win it at least once in my lifetime.
Old 01-03-2005 | 08:18 PM
  #1275  
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From: PA
FYI

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3292604



Gretzky: Lockout could last two years

Associated Press
Posted: 8 hours ago

GRAND FORKS, N.D. (AP) - Wayne Gretzky fears the NHL could be shut down for as long as two years if a labor deal is not reached soon.


Gretzky, the NHL's all-time leading scorer and part owner of the Phoenix Coyotes, said an "even more alarming" scenario could await the league if the lockout is not settled in the next few days.


"I'm scared we could be looking at a year, year-and-a-half, two years, not just three months like a lot of people thought back in September," Gretzky said at a news conference Sunday at the World Junior Championships, where Canada will meet Russia in Tuesday's final.

The NHL board of governors is to meet Jan. 14 in New York. The league rejected a union proposal and its own counteroffer was turned down during a session Dec. 14. No new talks are scheduled.

"From the standpoint of owners, players and fans, everyone is disappointed there is no hockey," Gretzky said.

Since the players are not paid between April and October, Gretzky said there may be little chance of any breakthrough during the summer on a new collective bargaining agreement.

"We're going to be back where we were last Sept. 15th come this Sept. 15th," he said.

Gretzky played in the world juniors for Canada when he was 16. "I was lucky," he said. "The only reason I made the team is because a couple of older guys got hurt. I was a young kid, and I enjoyed it. I was in awe."
Old 01-05-2005 | 09:46 AM
  #1276  
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From: Ottawa
Canada crushes Russia to win gold in Hockey

6-1, total and complete domination for the entire game, and the whole tournament for that matter. It was amazing.

One of the commentators said that after the US got beaten by Russia, they were practically begging the Canadians to beat Russia, because the Russian team had been playing so dirty during this tournament. You got to see some of that during this game but overall they got a huge beating from the Canadians both physically and skill-wise.

I kind of feel bad for the Russian players who are going to be sent to the gulag but... oh who am I kidding, I don't feel bad at all!
Old 01-05-2005 | 09:47 AM
  #1277  
dom's Avatar
dom
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From: Toronto, Canada


Hockey IS Canada !!!
Old 01-05-2005 | 09:55 AM
  #1278  
fdl's Avatar
fdl
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From: Toronto
Second period was amazing. Great tournament.


Next year will be very tough.
Old 01-05-2005 | 09:56 AM
  #1279  
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Old 01-05-2005 | 10:02 AM
  #1280  
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From: Toronto
Talk about total domination. We had an amazing group of kids this year. Definitely one of, if not the best team we've ever had.


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