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Hockey: News and Discussion Thread
06-15-2007, 09:01 AM
#9601
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by wstevens
I dunno guys. Crosby should have at least broken the 378 goals in one season mark in junior hockey. Without AT LEAST doing that, you have to wonder about the hype.
Who's record is that?
06-15-2007, 09:04 AM
#9602
Interesting. Interesting.
Originally Posted by dom
Who's record is that?
The Last One's junior hockey record - 378 goals and 139 assists in 85 games with the Nadrofsky Steelers when he was 10 years old
06-15-2007, 09:06 AM
#9603
Interesting. Interesting.
by the way, fdl. it's true that players are bigger, stronger, and faster now. But Crosby is big, strong, and fast as well, so his transcendent hockey skills should over match everyone.
Gretzky was never as big and as strong as any of his contemporaries. He was quick, but didn't have blazing speed.
Gretzky was never as big and as strong as any of his contemporaries. He was quick, but didn't have blazing speed.
06-15-2007, 09:35 AM
#9604
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by wstevens
by the way, fdl. it's true that players are bigger, stronger, and faster now. But Crosby is big, strong, and fast as well, so his transcendent hockey skills should over match everyone.
Gretzky was never as big and as strong as any of his contemporaries. He was quick, but didn't have blazing speed.
Gretzky was never as big and as strong as any of his contemporaries. He was quick, but didn't have blazing speed.
Check out this comparison video by ESPN. To me, the Gretzky clips look like some adult beer league.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/flash/crosbygretzky/index
By the way, I agree he needs to win at least a cup or two.
06-15-2007, 09:38 AM
#9605
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by fdl
Check out this comparison video by ESPN. To me, the Gretzky clips look like some adult beer league.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/flash/crosbygretzky/index
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/flash/crosbygretzky/index
Its that Jofa helmet.
06-15-2007, 10:08 AM
#9606
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by dom
BTW- There was some John Tavares talk on TV last night so they were showing a few highlights. That kid can play.
Here's hoping the Leafs get the 1st overall pick when he comes out.
Here's hoping the Leafs get the 1st overall pick when he comes out.
Oh, you make me chuckle dom. Chuckle indeed.
06-15-2007, 10:20 AM
#9607
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Originally Posted by dom
He's not a goal scorer like Wayne was early in his career. But Can he come close to 215? My first thought is no way, but he got 120 at 19. When he's 25 he may challenge for 200....
06-15-2007, 10:30 AM
#9608
Interesting. Interesting.
Originally Posted by TSXforme
I think at best, he'll get Sakic or Yzerman like numbers...which isn't too shabby either.
Those are great numbers. But, even if he achieves those kinds of numbers, the hype he is currently getting is not warranted.
06-15-2007, 10:35 AM
#9610
Interesting. Interesting.
In fact there are very few athletes that have lived up early mega-hype of being compared to their sport's best-ever players.
In recent memory:
Tiger Woods
Roger Federer
Michael Jordan
Wayne Gretzy
Mario Lemieux
All those guys changed the definition of a "great player" right from the word go.
I'm probably missing a few.
In recent memory:
Tiger Woods
Roger Federer
Michael Jordan
Wayne Gretzy
Mario Lemieux
All those guys changed the definition of a "great player" right from the word go.
I'm probably missing a few.
06-15-2007, 10:39 AM
#9612
Interesting. Interesting.
Originally Posted by dom
Lebron is right on track. MJ never led a bunch like the Cavs to the finals so early in his career.
Lebron needs to win at least 4 titles in the next 6 years, especially given hyped-but not-mega-hyped Tim Duncan's achievements.
06-15-2007, 10:44 AM
#9613
Senior Moderator
I still don't think you can compare him to previous athletes of a different era and a different game. In most of the sports you mention, overall scoring has increased, not decreased. You need to compare him to his peers.
Tiger lived up to the hype because he is so much better than the rest of the field. He dominates.
If Crosby wins the scoring title for the next 12 years, wins a couple of cups, then he has lived up to the hype, regardless of whether his season high is 140 points or 200 points.
Tiger lived up to the hype because he is so much better than the rest of the field. He dominates.
If Crosby wins the scoring title for the next 12 years, wins a couple of cups, then he has lived up to the hype, regardless of whether his season high is 140 points or 200 points.
06-15-2007, 10:47 AM
#9614
Interesting. Interesting.
Originally Posted by fdl
If Crosby wins the scoring title for the next 12 years, wins a couple of cups, then he has lived up to the hype, regardless of whether his season high is 140 points or 200 points.
I agree with this. If he wins 7-8 scoring titles, 3-4 Cups, 3-4 Harts, he's lived up to the hype.
The Cup winning needs to start soon, though.
06-15-2007, 10:51 AM
#9615
Interesting. Interesting.
And I agree that it's hard to compare players from different eras. However, you can tell whether or not a player has changed the game, regardless of era. Gretzky did from day 1. Tiger did from day 1 (they had to increase the difficulty of gold courses because of him). Jordan did from day 1. You could argue Lemieux did from day 1.
I haven't seen that from Crosby yet, and we are now firmly into "day 2"
I haven't seen that from Crosby yet, and we are now firmly into "day 2"
06-15-2007, 10:55 AM
#9618
Interesting. Interesting.
Originally Posted by fdl
lol. Gretzky and lemieux did nothing from day 1. Give the kid a bit more time.
"In his first NHL season, 1979-80, Gretzky proved his critics wrong. He was awarded the Hart Memorial Trophy as the League's Most Valuable Player (the first of eight in a row) and tied for the scoring lead with Marcel Dionne with 137 points, which remains the most points by a first-year player."
Is this info correct?
06-15-2007, 10:58 AM
#9620
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by wstevens
From Wiki:
"In his first NHL season, 1979-80, Gretzky proved his critics wrong. He was awarded the Hart Memorial Trophy as the League's Most Valuable Player (the first of eight in a row) and tied for the scoring lead with Marcel Dionne with 137 points, which remains the most points by a first-year player."
Is this info correct?
"In his first NHL season, 1979-80, Gretzky proved his critics wrong. He was awarded the Hart Memorial Trophy as the League's Most Valuable Player (the first of eight in a row) and tied for the scoring lead with Marcel Dionne with 137 points, which remains the most points by a first-year player."
Is this info correct?
Sidney Crosby is the youngest player to be named to the NHL's first all-star team in league history
Crosby is the youngest Hart winner since Wayne Gretzky in 1980.
06-15-2007, 10:59 AM
#9621
Interesting. Interesting.
Originally Posted by fdl
Crosby became the youngest player in NHL history to win the Art Ross Trophy as scoring champion after amassing 120 points during the regular season.
Sidney Crosby is the youngest player to be named to the NHL's first all-star team in league history
Crosby is the youngest Hart winner since Wayne Gretzky in 1980.
Sidney Crosby is the youngest player to be named to the NHL's first all-star team in league history
Crosby is the youngest Hart winner since Wayne Gretzky in 1980.
Touche.
OK - I'll give the kid another year before calling him a bust.
06-15-2007, 11:35 AM
#9622
i say he gets hurt and wastes a season like every other young star. gretzky got lucky and didn't suffer any major injuries. crosby will have to step up his game because now he has a bullseye on him every minute he's on the ice. in gretzky's time, he didn't have 220+ lb 6'2" defensemen waiting for him. although crosby is no runt, at 5'11 and 200lb, his center of gravity is low and centered, hence his abilities to out maneuver the bulkier guys and yet has the weight to power him through them as well.
06-17-2007, 02:10 PM
#9623
Senior Moderator
Canadiens deal Samsonov to Blackhawks
Not bad...the Hawks unloaded Cullimore who was an absolute bust for a guy who could get points in the past. Here's hoping Samsonov regains his touch.
Story here: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=211004&hubname=nhl
Story here: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=211004&hubname=nhl
06-18-2007, 05:30 PM
#9624
The sizzle in the Steak
Flyers acquire free-agent gems Hartnell, Timonen
PHILADELPHIA -- The Philadelphia Flyers acquired defenseman Kimmo Timonen and forward Scott Hartnell from the Nashville Predators on Monday, improving a team that finished last in the NHL.
The Predators get a first-round pick -- the same one they sent to the Flyers to acquire Peter Forsberg -- for Timonen and Hartnell, who were to become unrestricted free agents July 1 but are close to signing with Philadelphia.
The Predators get a first-round pick -- the same one they sent to the Flyers to acquire Peter Forsberg -- for Timonen and Hartnell, who were to become unrestricted free agents July 1 but are close to signing with Philadelphia.
06-18-2007, 05:59 PM
#9625
I am #76,361,211,935
Senators fire Muckler - Murray promoted to GM
Hockey in Ottawa just got more interesting!
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...06-18-15-17-03
Annointed as GM with the draft coming up this weekend and a bunch of contracts
up for review .... ooooooooh the excitement!
Oh and ............ Go SENS Go!!
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...06-18-15-17-03
Annointed as GM with the draft coming up this weekend and a bunch of contracts
up for review .... ooooooooh the excitement!
Oh and ............ Go SENS Go!!
06-18-2007, 06:38 PM
#9627
The sizzle in the Steak
Originally Posted by underdog
Hockey in Ottawa just got more interesting!
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...06-18-15-17-03
Annointed as GM with the draft coming up this weekend and a bunch of contracts
up for review .... ooooooooh the excitement!
Oh and ............ Go SENS Go!!
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...06-18-15-17-03
Annointed as GM with the draft coming up this weekend and a bunch of contracts
up for review .... ooooooooh the excitement!
Oh and ............ Go SENS Go!!
Sens ...stupid Sens gave the duckies teh Cup
06-18-2007, 08:01 PM
#9629
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by underdog
Hockey in Ottawa just got more interesting!
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...06-18-15-17-03
Annointed as GM with the draft coming up this weekend and a bunch of contracts
up for review .... ooooooooh the excitement!
Oh and ............ Go SENS Go!!
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...06-18-15-17-03
Annointed as GM with the draft coming up this weekend and a bunch of contracts
up for review .... ooooooooh the excitement!
Oh and ............ Go SENS Go!!
06-20-2007, 12:53 PM
#9630
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver
Age: 49
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So what are your thoughts about the possibility of Scott Niedermayer hanging up his skates? I think it'd be a shame for the league to lose a player of his caliber...especially since it looks like he can still excel at his position for at least another 6 to 7 years. At the same time I can understand his position...what else does he have to win? Maybe he should consider playing a season or two as a forward so that he can win the Art Ross or Maurice Richard trophy.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=211266&hubname=nhl
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=211266&hubname=nhl
06-20-2007, 01:03 PM
#9631
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by dom
Nice deal for Philly.
06-20-2007, 01:17 PM
#9632
The sizzle in the Steak
Originally Posted by TSXforme
So what are your thoughts about the possibility of Scott Niedermayer hanging up his skates? I think it'd be a shame for the league to lose a player of his caliber...especially since it looks like he can still excel at his position for at least another 6 to 7 years. At the same time I can understand his position...what else does he have to win? Maybe he should consider playing a season or two as a forward so that he can win the Art Ross or Maurice Richard trophy.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=211266&hubname=nhl
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=211266&hubname=nhl
Upside they leave big holes in the Duckies
Downside the Duckies take some good UFA away.
06-22-2007, 11:58 AM
#9633
The sizzle in the Steak
Ducks ink Giguere to four-year extension
Giguere will be pulling down $5.5 million in each of the first two years, $6 million in the third year and $7 million in the fourth year. He might have got a bit more somewhere else but he loves life in southern California too much to part company with a team he just helped win the Stanley Cup.
06-22-2007, 12:00 PM
#9634
The sizzle in the Steak
Leafs get Toskala and Bell from Sharks
The Toronto Maple Leafs have acquired goaltender Vesa Toskala and winger Mark Bell from the San Jose Sharks in exchange for first and second-round picks in 2007 and a 2009 fourth-round pick.
06-22-2007, 12:12 PM
#9635
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by wstevens
Sorry, Lemieux might be a stretch to include in this conversation at all.
Yea.... You need a supporting cast like Gretzky had basically his whole career..
06-22-2007, 12:16 PM
#9636
The sizzle in the Steak
It's Draft Day!!!!
06-22-2007, 01:38 PM
#9637
The sizzle in the Steak
Aucoin waives no-trade to go to Calgary
Chicago defenceman Adrian Aucoin has agreed to waive his no trade clause to permit a deal to the Calgary Flames along with a seventh-round pick in 2007.
In exchange, the Flames will send defenseman Andrei Zyuzin and prospect Steve Marr to the Blackhawks.
In exchange, the Flames will send defenseman Andrei Zyuzin and prospect Steve Marr to the Blackhawks.
06-22-2007, 01:53 PM
#9639
Interesting. Interesting.
Originally Posted by fdl
Toronto Maple Leafs have acquired goalie Vesa Toskala and forward Mark Bell from the San Jose Sharks for a package of draft picks.
Toronto's problems = solved.
06-22-2007, 01:54 PM
#9640
The sizzle in the Steak
^^ See Post #7896