e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

My point is it is way too easy to blame the goalie. IMHO Emery was solid (annoyingly so) On Tuesday Emery played very well, yet everyone is saying he f00ked up.

I think he did his best and was let down by his team (thankfully)

When a goalie f00ks up he deserves the derision, Fleury played well & stopped most of too many shots, I feel sorry for him.

black label

You guys already had 3 goals. You didn't need more goals, more goals isn't defense. Until the Pens find out that "score more goals than they do" isn't a defensive concept, the only cups they'll have are the ones that protect them from Quenneville's hands and Lucic's stick.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

Agreed, 3 goals should have been enough to win it. The problem is, once they got the lead, they backed off. Yes they didn't play well enough defensively, but they also backed off the offensive pressure

Yumcha

Good defense generates good offense?

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

Yes it does, however the main reason that CBus had so many shots was that the Pens were on the PK a lot in the second, cuz you know, the league favors them, and never calls any penalties on them

e30cabrio

iTrader: (6)

Bowroffle.

Rangers need offense, they are defensively ok (usually)

black label

Thats not what Bylsma said.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=7...d=nhl:topheads

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

They also mention being on the PK too much in the second. They still had chances throughout, but they definitely didn't crash the net as much later in the game, or as many shots.

Yumcha

I still can't agree how you're essentially saying it is the offense's fault for blowing the 3-0 lead.

black label

6 of those minutes were pretty much mandatory, a double minor for high sticking and then shooting the puck out, those aren't the penalties you can fake. It's not like the refs kept making questionable calls, these were obvious infractions.

Rounder

they DID ease up with 6-8 mins left all they were doing was dumping the puck in and killing the clock. at the 1:30 mark I said watch CBJ scores with like a minute left here, and bam looked what happened.

re: fleury. it's not about the shots you save, it's about the goals you give up. he should have stayed in the net with 30 seconds left. yes, I realize the forecheckers beat our D to the puck but you don't go wandering because sometimes the puck takes a bad bounce 1 in 10 times and look what happened.

Rounder

crosby and malkin need to wake up and be leaders. two of the best players on the planet and they are getting shut down. the more they have the puck on their stick that's less time for columbus to counter attack. malkin has been invisible this series.

dom

Did any of you people actually see Columbus' 4th goal in OT?

Ya, then why is there a debate on who's fault this is?

Despite what Yumchah would have you believe, Good golatending is still required to win in the playoffs.

Fleury will be somewhere else next year and the Pens will be getting a fresh start between the pipes. What's sad is, 99% of the hockey world knew how this was going to end but Ray Shero did nothing about it.

Ray Shero and Honda mang. seem to have a lot in common.

dom

And don't worry Pens fans. Barry Trotz will be also be available to slide in there and steady the ship.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

I never said that the offense blew the 3-0 lead, I said Malkin and Crosby not scoring isn't helping them win

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

Yeah, the OT goal was ugly, Fleury played 59 minutes of good hockey though.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

But since everyone wants to blame the D, let's look at our top D pairing

Martin, and Orpik. Both a +5 in the series, and have played very well as a whole.

Niskanen, Maata, and Scuderi are all -1 in 4 games, however Niskanen did lead the league in +/- this season, which is no small feat.

Letang is -3 in the series, has zero goals, zero points. To me, he's the weak link if you want to blame the D, the guy had a fawking stroke and shouldn't even be playing right now.

Kunitz, Neal, Crosby, and Letang, are a combined -11, not counting Malkin who has an even +/- . That right there is half our salary. Please tell me again how it's all the D

black label

And that's all the evidence we need to know 100% that the Pittsburgh organization and Pens fans just don't get it.

Defense isn't a 6 man job, it's an 19 man job. Expecting 6 people to do a job that requires 19 is why they fail.

Yumcha

Sigh. I love your memory...I told you and Moog that if the team (i.e. we were arguing about Chicago) has a good enough DEFENSE, a goalie to steal games is not really a big deal. I did not believe in paying $$$$$$ for a NAMEBRAND goalie.

Key words, Mr. Torontonian: STEAL GAMES. So, using Chicago and Detroit, since they are identical models on roster-builds, how often did you see their goalies STEAL GAMES to win their Cups?




In Mr. Fleury's example, I think he can be successful IF (HUGE IF), IF the Pens decided to play TEAM DEFENSE. But, TEAM DEFENSE seems to be alien to them since they blew a 3-goal lead.

ENGLISH, YES?

Yumcha

Alright, I'm going to go check out Phil the Thrill's Twitter feed to get fishing tips.

Moog-Type-S

Fleury = Weak link for Pengoons.

Yumcha

So, if Mr. Flower is the weak link, what should Pengoons do? Shore up TEAM DEFENSE!

Holy, what a concept!



It's debatable that Crawford (and before, Niemiski) is Chicago's "weak link" and so, what does Chicago invest lots in? The blueline and overall team D. But, hey...both recent Cups were fluke wins.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

I was trying to make that point, other players are playing worse defensively than the "D core" but all everyone wants to keep pointing at is those 6. It's amazing how much you and I actually agree, even when you don't want to see it.

Yumcha

Kopidoor, Bergeron, and Toews named Selke finalists: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=450285

Moog-Type-S

...or get a top notch goaltender

Moog-Type-S

East Coast bias.....Bergeron wins this one hands down.

Moog-Type-S

Amazing how the Jackets have not swept the Pengoons already.

They blew TWO, count 'em TWO 3-1 leads and still figured out a way to to win 2 games.

Moog-Type-S

<----Cleaning the golf clubs as I watch game 4 tonight.

Mike Richards...methinks this will be the last time you wear a Kings jersey.
...same for Greene....maybe Williams, and Clifford as well.

Would love to see Brown tossed out too, but that's not going to happen.

Yumcha

Those don't grow on trees.

Anyhow, depends on how Shero wants to build his team.

black label

I'm not pointing at those 6 as the problem (although I fully admit that I call Letang a 4th forward with a defensemens stick).

I say the concept is the problem and the concept seems to be "score more goals than they do", it needs to be "stop them from scoring as many as we do".

Take it away from local pride and laundry.

Team Canada and Team USA, Babcock/Julien vs Bylsma. Canada's eventual smothering D had Babcock and Juliens puck possession stingy defense fingerprints all over it. Bylsma's high scoring offense started to fall apart when the stakes were higher and their team defense couldn't keep them in it.

Fluery isn't the greatest goaltender in the world, he made 2 mistakes in that game that hurt Pitt bad, no doubt. He's not the big problem. You can say he shouldn't have let those 2 in but how many of the 40+ shots he stopped could have gone in? He made a lot of quality stops when the team hung him out to dry.

The problem lies in the team's core. Bad coaching concept, too many superstars egos to manage, not enough leadership in the room and a captain who's talented but not a real leader.

Yumcha

Kopidoor should win it. He's had a nice regular season.

black label

You need to get out into nature more often.

http://www.visitfinland.com/

Moog-Type-S

There were plenty of better goaltenders than Fleury available from last years off season to this years trade deadline.

It's not that hard.

Moog-Type-S

....wait.......................................... ....................

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

I didn't say you did, others in here have

You're dead on, Bylsma's system has never worked well here, mainly in the playoffs when team defense is paramount. He won a cup with another coaches' team, and has disappointed ever since. His high scoring fast paced offense is too predictable, and he doesn't adjust. If you recall, his lack of adjustments was my biggest frustration last year against the B's. I think Sid is an amazingly gifted player and a good leader, but there's 2 many chiefs, and not enough indians. Last year was perfect example, take a team on a 15 game winning streak, bring in 2 captains and a couple other veterans and blow up the room. They definitely rely too much on their talent and not enough on team play. They're a great regular season team, but they haven't had the direction and coaching to help lead them far into the post-season. I wanted him gone after last year, and his failure to adjust. He definitely is coaching for his job this year.

dom

Shut up, a goalie with more holes in him that Swiss Cheese is fine as long as you play Team D. Team D is all that matters, goalies are disposable and don't matter. A defenceman should have stopped that 30 ft floater from just inside the blue line in overtime last night, don't blame MAF. It was the D's fault. Lets put pads and blocker on all defenceman!!!!

dom

And there's been enough Maple Leave bashing in this thread to last a lifetime. Isn't that what the regular season is for? Come playoff time, its time to bash the Pens and other teams that choke come April.

Moog-Type-S

^^ Now I'm offended with you saying it's cool to bash choke teams :cough: Kings :cough:

black label

Maple Leaf Bashing is like the Jello Pudding of Hockey talk, there's always room for it.

Yumcha

Well, have you considered that Mr. Flower WON a Cup...and maybe the Pengoon's lack of dedication to team D has left him a basketcase? So, THERE.

When he's on, he's made some pretty impressive stops. Too bad he's also got the confidence of an ugly fat girl.